High Speed Rail (1 Viewer)

[Phurfur]

Why do I have to pay for someone else's high speed rail?

 

[Koya]

I took an urban planning course last spring and learned that urban planners love congestion. You pretty much need congested chaos for projects like these to make sense.

can you clarify? I don know of any urban planner tha likes congestion. And I deal with urban planners all the time. Now, urban planners unlike traffic engineers see the benefit of slowing traffic in downtowns and pedestrian areas to provide for walkability and a better sense of place... Neither of which are helped by congestion.To captain place's point:no, I am not comparing US growth potential to argentina's. What I am trying to say is 1) there are significant economic growth opportunities through rail investment and more important, if freakin Argentina can find the financial resources to build high speed rail, shame on us for ignoring our future by lack of investment needed to just keep up with other economies.I will say that I agree with captain p in that the most important need is local and intraregional/commuter rail but it would be foolish not to also pursued connection of different metros and economic centers for both more efficent freight and people movement.

 

[Koya]

Why do I have to pay for someone else's high speed rail?

you don't. We can allow the us to continue to lose economic advantages not to mention lose out on myriad social and envronmental benefits. Do you ask why you need to pay for other peoples highways? Highways that do not increase property values and often have mnimal and even negative effects on economic developmet?Wouldt you rather see your dollars invest in a transportation mode that actually has a sig ificant positive return through increased property values and significant economic development opps?

 

[Phurfur]

Why do I have to pay for someone else's high speed rail?

you don't. We can allow the us to continue to lose economic advantages not to mention lose out on myriad social and envronmental benefits. Do you ask why you need to pay for other peoples highways? Highways that do not increase property values and often have mnimal and even negative effects on economic developmet?Wouldt you rather see your dollars invest in a transportation mode that actually has a sig ificant positive return through increased property values and significant economic development opps?

What a load of crap. You must be very young.

 

[the moops]

Why do I have to pay for someone else's high speed rail?

you don't. We can allow the us to continue to lose economic advantages not to mention lose out on myriad social and envronmental benefits. Do you ask why you need to pay for other peoples highways? Highways that do not increase property values and often have mnimal and even negative effects on economic developmet?Wouldt you rather see your dollars invest in a transportation mode that actually has a sig ificant positive return through increased property values and significant economic development opps?

What a load of crap. You must be very young.

So you do feel the need to pay for other people's highways, but don't feel the need to pay for other people's rails?

 

[Phurfur]

Why do I have to pay for someone else's high speed rail?

you don't. We can allow the us to continue to lose economic advantages not to mention lose out on myriad social and envronmental benefits. Do you ask why you need to pay for other peoples highways? Highways that do not increase property values and often have mnimal and even negative effects on economic developmet?Wouldt you rather see your dollars invest in a transportation mode that actually has a sig ificant positive return through increased property values and significant economic development opps?

What a load of crap. You must be very young.

So you do feel the need to pay for other people's highways, but don't feel the need to pay for other people's rails?

I have highways in my area but will never have a high speed rail. Is this that hard to figure out?

 

[the moops]

Why do I have to pay for someone else's high speed rail?

you don't. We can allow the us to continue to lose economic advantages not to mention lose out on myriad social and envronmental benefits. Do you ask why you need to pay for other peoples highways? Highways that do not increase property values and often have mnimal and even negative effects on economic developmet?Wouldt you rather see your dollars invest in a transportation mode that actually has a sig ificant positive return through increased property values and significant economic development opps?

What a load of crap. You must be very young.

So you do feel the need to pay for other people's highways, but don't feel the need to pay for other people's rails?

I have highways in my area but will never have a high speed rail. Is this that hard to figure out?

It was a simple question. It's Friday man, you need to chill.But to your point. There are plenty of folks in this country who live nowhere near interstates. Do they have as worthy a claim as you do?

 

[Osaurus]

I am looking forward to see how the city of Orlampa/Tamando will thrive once HSR is built. Woohoo!!!

 

[Papa Georgio]

Not at all what I expected to find in here.

 

[Koya]

Why do I have to pay for someone else's high speed rail?

you don't. We can allow the us to continue to lose economic advantages not to mention lose out on myriad social and envronmental benefits. Do you ask why you need to pay for other peoples highways? Highways that do not increase property values and often have mnimal and even negative effects on economic developmet?Wouldt you rather see your dollars invest in a transportation mode that actually has a sig ificant positive return through increased property values and significant economic development opps?

What a load of crap. You must be very young.

Not sure why you decided to go the attack route, but it is far from crap. If you let me know which of my points you disagree with I'd be happy to discuss. In regard to age/experience I am 36 and a real estate developer with a firm that is putting a huge emphasis on transit oriented development. In short, we are putting our money where our mouth is to the tune of millions.For some hard facts, check out ctod.org and t4america.org . Some great info from the firm Robert Charles lesser & co along with chris Leinberger of the brookings institution and U of Mich on the value and economic development rail brings.

 

[culdeus]

if they decide to build only ONE, I hope it's from Los Angeles to Las Vegas. I hate that drive...

That line should be way down the list if it comes to fruition.NE corridor, LA to SF, St Louis to Chicago should all take precedence over a Vegas line.

Just get California to legalize gambling. The weed thing seems to be doing alright. Unless you go to Vegas for the hookers.

Why not legalize all of it?

 

[CrossEyed]

If we need High Speed Rail then why are we looking at 84 MPH while the rest of the world would see that as being pedestrian? If it something we need and want, why not do it right?

Because this way a group of politicians get to impress us in the future with plans to modernize our soon to be outdated rail system.

 

[the moops]

If we need High Speed Rail then why are we looking at 84 MPH while the rest of the world would see that as being pedestrian? If it something we need and want, why not do it right?

Because this way a group of politicians get to impress us in the future with plans to modernize our soon to be outdated rail system.

It says in the first link they are looking at 168 mph.

 

[culdeus]

If we need High Speed Rail then why are we looking at 84 MPH while the rest of the world would see that as being pedestrian? If it something we need and want, why not do it right?

Because this way a group of politicians get to impress us in the future with plans to modernize our soon to be outdated rail system.

It says in the first link they are looking at 168 mph.

The other thing that is overlooked in these debates is that if you are ever near a TGV line you see that they move freight at very high speeds as well. This may make the most environmental impact of all by being able to deliver cargo freight long distances at incredible speeds. They in some cases have strictly cargo TGV lines so that they can avoid even having to slow down at the stations so people's ears don't explode.

 

[Phurfur]

It was a simple question. It's Friday man, you need to chill.But to your point. There are plenty of folks in this country who live nowhere near interstates. Do they have as worthy a claim as you do?

I know it is Friday but how slow can you be. Highways benefit the vast majority of Americans where as the High Speed Rail will benefit a small minority. HTH

 

[Koya]

If we need High Speed Rail then why are we looking at 84 MPH while the rest of the world would see that as being pedestrian? If it something we need and want, why not do it right?

Because this way a group of politicians get to impress us in the future with plans to modernize our soon to be outdated rail system.

Very good point. With higher speeds, as I understand it, comes some major additional hurdles in regard to track upgrades, crossings, grading etc. But I would prefer we take a real roi look even if it means biting a bigger financial bullet now. Sadly politics and a lack of understanding of th issue within govt and the public will likely preclude such a well thought out let's do what is merited and what is best longterm, approach.

 

[Neofight]

Why do I have to pay for someone else's high speed rail?

you don't. We can allow the us to continue to lose economic advantages not to mention lose out on myriad social and envronmental benefits. Do you ask why you need to pay for other peoples highways? Highways that do not increase property values and often have mnimal and even negative effects on economic developmet?Wouldt you rather see your dollars invest in a transportation mode that actually has a sig ificant positive return through increased property values and significant economic development opps?

What a load of crap. You must be very young.

So you do feel the need to pay for other people's highways, but don't feel the need to pay for other people's rails?

I have highways in my area but will never have a high speed rail. Is this that hard to figure out?

Max Cannon requests the return of his milkman, unless you can learn to play nice.

 

[the moops]

It was a simple question. It's Friday man, you need to chill.But to your point. There are plenty of folks in this country who live nowhere near interstates. Do they have as worthy a claim as you do?

I know it is Friday but how slow can you be. Highways benefit the vast majority of Americans where as the High Speed Rail will benefit a small minority. HTH

Man, you sure can be a ####, that much is for sure.If there are high speed rail lines up and down both coasts, and through the midwest corridor, as well as down through Texas, I would venture a guess that it would benefit a substantial part of the population. it would relieve air traffic, limit the amount of cars on your freeways, and provide a fast means of transportation for millions of people.Just because a large segment of the population wont ride on them does not mean they receive no benefit from them.

 

[Koya]

It was a simple question. It's Friday man, you need to chill.But to your point. There are plenty of folks in this country who live nowhere near interstates. Do they have as worthy a claim as you do?

I know it is Friday but how slow can you be. Highways benefit the vast majority of Americans where as the High Speed Rail will benefit a small minority. HTH

Not necessarily true. you pay for bridges and tunnels in towns you will never even visit. The pure economic benefits through effeciency would benefit you and all americans by providing us with a far better system by which to move goods and people. It will help our economy grow while decreasing costs of road infrastrcture maintenance that is becoming an increasing financial burden with little econmic upside.

 

[Phurfur]

Why do I have to pay for someone else's high speed rail?

you don't. We can allow the us to continue to lose economic advantages not to mention lose out on myriad social and envronmental benefits. Do you ask why you need to pay for other peoples highways? Highways that do not increase property values and often have mnimal and even negative effects on economic developmet?Wouldt you rather see your dollars invest in a transportation mode that actually has a sig ificant positive return through increased property values and significant economic development opps?

What a load of crap. You must be very young.

Not sure why you decided to go the attack route, but it is far from crap. If you let me know which of my points you disagree with I'd be happy to discuss. In regard to age/experience I am 36 and a real estate developer with a firm that is putting a huge emphasis on transit oriented development. In short, we are putting our money where our mouth is to the tune of millions.For some hard facts, check out ctod.org and t4america.org . Some great info from the firm Robert Charles lesser & co along with chris Leinberger of the brookings institution and U of Mich on the value and economic development rail brings.

So you have a vested interest. I rest my case.We are past debate we will never agree so let's agree to disgree. By the way, I consider 36 young, when you are my age you may see things differently.

 

[Koya]

It was a simple question. It's Friday man, you need to chill.But to your point. There are plenty of folks in this country who live nowhere near interstates. Do they have as worthy a claim as you do?

I know it is Friday but how slow can you be. Highways benefit the vast majority of Americans where as the High Speed Rail will benefit a small minority. HTH

Not necessarily true. you pay for bridges and tunnels in towns you will never even visit. The pure economic benefits through effeciency would benefit you and all americans by providing us with a far better system by which to move goods and people. It will help our economy grow while decreasing costs of road infrastrcture maintenance that is becoming an increasing financial burden with little econmic upside.

 

[Phurfur]

It was a simple question. It's Friday man, you need to chill.But to your point. There are plenty of folks in this country who live nowhere near interstates. Do they have as worthy a claim as you do?

I know it is Friday but how slow can you be. Highways benefit the vast majority of Americans where as the High Speed Rail will benefit a small minority. HTH

Not necessarily true. you pay for bridges and tunnels in towns you will never even visit. The pure economic benefits through effeciency would benefit you and all americans by providing us with a far better system by which to move goods and people. It will help our economy grow while decreasing costs of road infrastrcture maintenance that is becoming an increasing financial burden with little econmic upside.

But this will never happen, it is a pipe dream. How will Tampa - Orlando or LA - Vegas benefit me?

 

[QUEZILLA]

I took an urban planning course last spring and learned that urban planners love congestion. You pretty much need congested chaos for projects like these to make sense.

can you clarify? I don know of any urban planner tha likes congestion. And I deal with urban planners all the time. Now, urban planners unlike traffic engineers see the benefit of slowing traffic in downtowns and pedestrian areas to provide for walkability and a better sense of place... Neither of which are helped by congestion.

You need a crap ton of people for an urban planners existence to even make sense. People wont use any other form of transportation besides automobiles unless they have to.

 

[the moops]

But this will never happen, it is a pipe dream. How will Tampa - Orlando or LA - Vegas benefit me?

So you have a vested interest. I rest my case.

 

[Joseph]

I think HSR is an interesting idea, but in a time when many people think that government already wastes its money to the tune of billions a year, proposing something something like this is going to have a lot of people VERY skeptical.

I understand the need to keep our infrastructure in top shape, but I'd rather the government prove it can handle the budget items it is currently worrying about before we hand them the keys to another couple hundred billion in spending.

 

[Mister CIA]

High speed rail from Philly-Pittsburgh and Cincy-Columbus-Cleveland makes the most sense, electorally speaking. Maybe throw a bone to Florida too.

 

[Phurfur]

But this will never happen, it is a pipe dream. How will Tampa - Orlando or LA - Vegas benefit me?

So you have a vested interest. I rest my case.

That was my original point, I won't even have an opportunity to use these HSR so why should I pay for them. I guess we came full circle.

 

[the moops]

But this will never happen, it is a pipe dream. How will Tampa - Orlando or LA - Vegas benefit me?

So you have a vested interest. I rest my case.

That was my original point, I won't even have an opportunity to use these HSR so why should I pay for them. I guess we came full circle.

So you toss Koya's opinion aside because he has a vested interest, yet we should listen to your opinion because you have a vested interest?Full circle indeed

 

[Koya]

lSo you have a vested interest. I rest my case.We are past debate we will never agree so let's agree to disgree. By the way, I consider 36 young, when you are my age you may see things differently.

phurfur, you seem to attack me a lot but bot actually discuss the Issue.For one, I asked what points of mine you disagreed with. You just looke to attack my credibility. I've kept on topic and will continue to do so as our nations future livlihood depends upon it to a signiicat degree. Had naysayers with nothing to add but "no" won over during the Eisenhower admin where would we be today? Without one of te worlds if not the worlds greatest road trans system.About your vested interest comment... For 35 years my company built auto dependnt sprawl product. We now recognize that the market demands a diffeent option... TOD living in downtown walkablecommunitiez neighborhood.We CHOSE to invest in this developmet model. We did not have to. However we are confident in hat this nation needs and what the market wants. So any vested interest is by design. I see that as putting our money where our mouth is necessitating that I know and understand the issue at hand rather than juT spout unsupported personal beliefs while attacking those who have a different perspective.Let's keep to the issue, if indeed you have something based upon fact and objective reality.

 

[Koya]

But this will never happen, it is a pipe dream. How will Tampa - Orlando or LA - Vegas benefit me?

la to Vegas is not a great route. I can speak to Tampa Orlando. But the northeast corridor, Chicago throughout the Midwest and north south Cali routes would provide significant economic development through freight and people movement effeciencies and a better flow of goods, services and knowledge. It will help the US gain advantages or in many cases at least catch up.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Traveling between cities and major metropolitan areas is not our problem. Commuting to and from cities and major metropolitan areas is the problem. And all of these massive taxpayer-funded boondoggles do not address our real need.(And I'm not even suggesting government would effectively address that need either.)

This is a good point. Most American cities have no light rail system to speak of to connect to the heavy rail systems.Would I use High Speed Rail if it went where I needed to go and was reasonably priced? Absolutely.I've used fast trains in France, Spain, Switzerland, Germany, and Italy, and loved it.

 

[flufhed]

It was a simple question. It's Friday man, you need to chill.But to your point. There are plenty of folks in this country who live nowhere near interstates. Do they have as worthy a claim as you do?

I know it is Friday but how slow can you be. Highways benefit the vast majority of Americans where as the High Speed Rail will benefit a small minority. HTH

Do new runways and such benefit a vast majority of Americans?Because you pay for that stuff, too.It trips me out the hunreds of billions of dollars spent on interstates, and spent to subsidize the airline industry, build their infrastructure, bail them oiut when the ecomony goes bad, rinse, repeat.But try spending a few billion dollars to have a first-rate rail system, like this country had 60 years ago, and people whine and complain about it.

 

[flufhed]

I took an urban planning course last spring and learned that urban planners love congestion. You pretty much need congested chaos for projects like these to make sense.

can you clarify? I don know of any urban planner tha likes congestion. And I deal with urban planners all the time. Now, urban planners unlike traffic engineers see the benefit of slowing traffic in downtowns and pedestrian areas to provide for walkability and a better sense of place... Neither of which are helped by congestion.

You need a crap ton of people for an urban planners existence to even make sense. People wont use any other form of transportation besides automobiles unless they have to.

This has been proven wrong time and time and time again.Everyone laughed when they set out to build a rail system in Salt Lake City. Utahns are as in love with their cars and SUVs as any population you will find.

Ridership within a year was TRIPLE the most optimistic projections. Every suburb of Salt Lake is clamoring to have a spur built to their bedroom community.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

But this will never happen, it is a pipe dream. How will Tampa - Orlando or LA - Vegas benefit me?

la to Vegas is not a great route. I can speak to Tampa Orlando. But the northeast corridor, Chicago throughout the Midwest and north south Cali routes would provide significant economic development through freight and people movement effeciencies and a better flow of goods, services and knowledge. It will help the US gain advantages or in many cases at least catch up.

Disclaimer: Haven't read the thread, so forgive me if I'm restating anything here...I don't know about that route, but the way I envision this being a success is if there are lines built parallel to already overcrowded highways. An example would be IH-35 between San Antonio and Dallas, through Austin...one of the busiest stretches of Interstate in the U.S. A successful HSR line would take a lot of cars off that road.

 

[Phurfur]

It was a simple question. It's Friday man, you need to chill.

But to your point. There are plenty of folks in this country who live nowhere near interstates. Do they have as worthy a claim as you do?

I know it is Friday but how slow can you be. Highways benefit the vast majority of Americans where as the High Speed Rail will benefit a small minority. HTH

Do new runways and such benefit a vast majority of Americans?Because you pay for that stuff, too.

It trips me out the hunreds of billions of dollars spent on interstates, and spent to subsidize the airline industry, build their infrastructure, bail them oiut when the ecomony goes bad, rinse, repeat.

But try spending a few billion dollars to have a first-rate rail system, like this country had 60 years ago, and people whine and complain about it.

How many milles of HSR will you get for a few billion dollars? How many people will be able to use it? Will it be run any better than AMTRAK? Where is this money coming from we are currently +$12 trillion in debt?

 

[flufhed]

It was a simple question. It's Friday man, you need to chill.

But to your point. There are plenty of folks in this country who live nowhere near interstates. Do they have as worthy a claim as you do?

I know it is Friday but how slow can you be. Highways benefit the vast majority of Americans where as the High Speed Rail will benefit a small minority. HTH

Do new runways and such benefit a vast majority of Americans?Because you pay for that stuff, too.

It trips me out the hunreds of billions of dollars spent on interstates, and spent to subsidize the airline industry, build their infrastructure, bail them oiut when the ecomony goes bad, rinse, repeat.

But try spending a few billion dollars to have a first-rate rail system, like this country had 60 years ago, and people whine and complain about it.

How many milles of HSR will you get for a few billion dollars? How many people will be able to use it? Will it be run any better than AMTRAK? Where is this money coming from we are currently +$12 trillion in debt?

We can start by taking a tiny percentage of the billions spent on air and highway travel.

 

[QUEZILLA]

I took an urban planning course last spring and learned that urban planners love congestion. You pretty much need congested chaos for projects like these to make sense.

can you clarify? I don know of any urban planner tha likes congestion. And I deal with urban planners all the time. Now, urban planners unlike traffic engineers see the benefit of slowing traffic in downtowns and pedestrian areas to provide for walkability and a better sense of place... Neither of which are helped by congestion.

You need a crap ton of people for an urban planners existence to even make sense. People wont use any other form of transportation besides automobiles unless they have to.

This has been proven wrong time and time and time again.Everyone laughed when they set out to build a rail system in Salt Lake City. Utahns are as in love with their cars and SUVs as any population you will find.

Ridership within a year was TRIPLE the most optimistic projections. Every suburb of Salt Lake is clamoring to have a spur built to their bedroom community.

That's a mid-sized rail. I think people are more likely to use a mid-sized if it was as convenient as a car. Also, like the MARTA many people without cars will ride it. I'm referring more to a HSR. Also, the trolley in Tampa has been a leach on the tax payers for a while now and that's more of a light rail. Mid-sized rail takes priority over all the others imo.

 

[Phurfur]

It was a simple question. It's Friday man, you need to chill.

But to your point. There are plenty of folks in this country who live nowhere near interstates. Do they have as worthy a claim as you do?

I know it is Friday but how slow can you be. Highways benefit the vast majority of Americans where as the High Speed Rail will benefit a small minority. HTH

Do new runways and such benefit a vast majority of Americans?Because you pay for that stuff, too.

It trips me out the hunreds of billions of dollars spent on interstates, and spent to subsidize the airline industry, build their infrastructure, bail them oiut when the ecomony goes bad, rinse, repeat.

But try spending a few billion dollars to have a first-rate rail system, like this country had 60 years ago, and people whine and complain about it.

How many milles of HSR will you get for a few billion dollars? How many people will be able to use it? Will it be run any better than AMTRAK? Where is this money coming from we are currently +$12 trillion in debt?

We can start by taking a tiny percentage of the billions spent on air and highway travel.

But that is not the plan! This is NEW money and I still don't see where Orlando - TB benefits the country.

 

[pantagrapher]

People wont use any other form of transportation besides automobiles unless they have to.

I actually avoid using an automobile unless I have to.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Traveling between cities and major metropolitan areas is not our problem. Commuting to and from cities and major metropolitan areas is the problem. And all of these massive taxpayer-funded boondoggles do not address our real need.(And I'm not even suggesting government would effectively address that need either.)

This is more about symbolism than anything else. It's the backyard swimming pool of public projects - it looks pretty and is a luxury item, but it's not going to be used enough to justify its existence.

Isn't it pretty poor symbolism when our 'high speed' is like half that of most of the world's high speed? I mean, if we wanted a symbolic thing, shouldn't we at least match the best of the high speed rails? Or have Maglev?

The Japanese are working on a Maglev line from Tokyo to Osaka. They are currently running tests on a test line and trying to figure out how to bring down costs. They've hit speeds over 360 mph on one test run and project the cruising speed of the line to be around 310 mph, but they project the cost of building the line they want to build, about 500 km or 310 miles, to be around $100 billion. The Japanese say this is about twice what it costs to build a conventional high speed line.The Chinese just opened a new 245 mph/620 mile line that takes 3 hours to run. The Chinese government reported that it cost $15 billion and took 4 years to build.From wiki:

The Shanghai maglev cost 9.93 billion yuan to build.[35] This total includes infrastructure capital costs such as manufacturing and construction facilities, and operational training. At 50 yuan per passenger[36] and the current 7,000 passengers per day, income from the system is incapable of recouping the capital costs (including interest on financing) over the expected lifetime of the system, even ignoring operating costs[citation needed]. This changes if capacity utilization increases from the current 20%.China aims to limit the cost of future construction extending the maglev line to approximately 200 million yuan per kilometer.[35]The United States Federal Railroad Administration 2003 Draft Environmental Impact Statement for a proposed Baltimore-Washington Maglev project gives an estimated 2008 capital costs of 4.361 billion US dollars for 39.1 miles, or 111.5 million US dollars per mile (69.3 million US dollars per kilometer). The Maryland Transit Administration (MTA) conducted their own Environmental Impact Statement, and put the pricetag at 4.9 billion dollars for construction, and 53 million a year for operations.[37]The proposed Chūō Shinkansen maglev in Japan is estimated to cost approximately US$82 billion to build, with a route blasting long tunnels through mountains. A Tokaido maglev route replacing current Shinkansen would cost some 1/10th the cost, as no new tunnel blasting would be needed, but noise pollution issues would make it infeasible.The only low-speed maglev (100 km/h) currently operational, the Japanese Linimo HSST, cost approximately US$100 million/km to build.[38] Besides offering improved operation and maintenance costs over other transit systems, these low-speed maglevs provide ultra-high levels of operational reliability and introduce little noise and zero air pollution into dense urban settings.As maglev systems are deployed around the world, experts expect construction costs to drop as new construction methods are innovated along with economies of scale.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Will it be run any better than AMTRAK?

If it's not run any better than AMTRAK, or if, heaven forbid, it's actually run BY AMTRAK, I won't be getting within a mile of it. Besides, if that's the case, it'll cost too much anyway.

 

[Koya]

Everyone laughed when they set out to build a rail system in Salt Lake City. Utahns are as in love with their cars and SUVs as any population you will find.Ridership within a year was TRIPLE the most optimistic projections. Every suburb of Salt Lake is clamoring to have a spur built to their bedroom community.

I forget where, maybe Phoenix, but ridership on their light rail fat surpassed expectations and if I recall correctly, ridership was actually higher on weekends tan weekdays. Clearly a large number of people chose to leave the car at home. On a broader scale, there is such a lack of understanding of rail an it's benefit that wr end up with a self fulfilling prophecy if auto dependency. We build only roads at the expense of rail. We zone land use in a way that further makes us depend on the auto. Then people say people only want to drive. Well, duh! It's the only option, it'd all we know in many areas. So people use thatyou justify more roads and no rail.Provide a GOOD rail system and you will have a lot of ridership. I wish long island had rail connectivity outside of just commuting to the city. If GLADLY leave the car at home as would many others I know.

 

[kaa]

People wont use any other form of transportation besides automobiles unless they have to.

I actually avoid using an automobile unless I have to.

I have to laugh, as this is pretty much the typical arrogant liberal response. When presented with a statement about the general public, they go straight to their own personal preferences. "Well I do it!" Implying that the rest of society should as well. Me me me...

 

[Neofight]

People wont use any other form of transportation besides automobiles unless they have to.

I actually avoid using an automobile unless I have to.

I have to laugh, as this is pretty much the typical arrogant liberal response. When presented with a statement about the general public, they go straight to their own personal preferences. "Well I do it!" Implying that the rest of society should as well. Me me me...

You truly must not have read this entire thread.

 

[Koya]

People wont use any other form of transportation besides automobiles unless they have to.

I actually avoid using an automobile unless I have to.

I have to laugh, as this is pretty much the typical arrogant liberal response. When presented with a statement about the general public, they go straight to their own personal preferences. "Well I do it!" Implying that the rest of society should as well. Me me me...

yeah, the for profit development community is just such a bastion of Liberal thought. Must e Liberally blinded by the huge increase in real estate value that is a clear and proven result of rail transit. Kaa, you put forward an utterly counterproductove post that takes away from a positive discssion about important issues. Please grind your ax elsewhere.

 

[pantagrapher]

People wont use any other form of transportation besides automobiles unless they have to.

I actually avoid using an automobile unless I have to.

I have to laugh, as this is pretty much the typical arrogant liberal response. When presented with a statement about the general public, they go straight to their own personal preferences. "Well I do it!" Implying that the rest of society should as well. Me me me...

How about this: People avoid using automobiles unless they have to.Better?

 

[Jayrod]

Everyone laughed when they set out to build a rail system in Salt Lake City. Utahns are as in love with their cars and SUVs as any population you will find.Ridership within a year was TRIPLE the most optimistic projections. Every suburb of Salt Lake is clamoring to have a spur built to their bedroom community.

I forget where, maybe Phoenix, but ridership on their light rail fat surpassed expectations and if I recall correctly, ridership was actually higher on weekends tan weekdays. Clearly a large number of people chose to leave the car at home. On a broader scale, there is such a lack of understanding of rail an it's benefit that wr end up with a self fulfilling prophecy if auto dependency. We build only roads at the expense of rail. We zone land use in a way that further makes us depend on the auto. Then people say people only want to drive. Well, duh! It's the only option, it'd all we know in many areas. So people use thatyou justify more roads and no rail.Provide a GOOD rail system and you will have a lot of ridership. I wish long island had rail connectivity outside of just commuting to the city. If GLADLY leave the car at home as would many others I know.

Are you drunk? This is some of the worst typing I've seen on the boards. I have to read some of it 3 times to get what you are saying.But besides that,

 

[the hairy scotsman]

I love my car and can't see ever being without (a fast) one, but I've loved using good rail systems in other countries. My biggest doubts with HSR and light rail in America lie in whether they will get built right and in a cost-effective manner, and whether it will be run right and in a cost effective manner that's priced competitively.

ETA: Just for disclosure, most people who know me on this board know I'm no liberal.

 

[Koya]

Are you drunk? This is some of the worst typing I've seen on the boards. I have to read some of it 3 times to get what you are saying.But besides that,

my iTyping skills are lacking and it's tough to navigate long quoted responses on the iPhone.

 

[Major]

I had one cut with alot of speed once. It was 'aight.

I was wondering how many posts I got to before coke was mentioned