Hiroshima and Nagasaki - 75th Anniversary (1 Viewer)

[The Gator]

August 6 and August 9 represent the 75th Anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

I stumbled across this New Yorker feature on Hiroshima, written in 1946.

Its a very long account told by 6 survivors a year after the bombs.

Link to other New Yorker features 

 

[beer 30]

August 6 and August 9 represent the 75th Anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

I stumbled across this New Yorker feature on Hiroshima, written in 1946.

Its a very long account told by 6 survivors a year after the bombs.

Link to other New Yorker features 

Thanks for posting, 42 page PDF 

This one's gonna take a minute.

 

[higgins]

Visited the Hiroshima museum about a decade ago — sobering experience. 

 

[Ted Stickles]

Visited the Hiroshima museum about a decade ago — sobering experience. 

My heart has never felt as heavy or hurt as it did during my visit.

 

[facook]

My heart has never felt as heavy or hurt as it did during my visit.

Have not been, but imagine it's similar to the Holocaust Museum.  Sat on the steps for a couple hours afterwards, both my wife and me, just staring silently at nothing.

 

[The Gator]

from BBC article:

Seventy-five years after the Enola Gay opened its bomb bay doors, 31,000ft above Hiroshima, views on what happened that day are still deeply polarised.

Those on the ground who lived to tell the tale see themselves, understandably, as victims of an appalling crime. Sitting and talking with any "hibakusha" (survivor) is a deeply moving experience. The horrors they witnessed are almost unimaginable. Hordes of zombie like people, their skin melted and hanging in ribbons from their arms and faces; mournful cries from the thousands trapped in the tangle of collapsed and burning buildings; the smell of burned flesh. Later came the black rain and the agonising deaths from a strange new killer - radiation sickness.

But any visitor to the Hiroshima Peace Museum might justifiably ask, where is the context? After all, the atom bombs didn't come out of nowhere. You'll find scant mention of the surprise Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour, let alone the horrors of the Nanjing Massacre, or the slaughter at Peleliu, Manila, Iwo Jima and Okinawa. And so, to many Japanese, Hiroshima and Nagasaki stand oddly alone, detached from the rest of history, symbols of the unique victimhood of Japan, the only country ever to experience a nuclear attack.

The lack of context can feel equally egregious on the other side. When I last visited Hiroshima, I asked a group of visiting American college students what they had learned in school about the attack. One young man summed it up like this: "America embarked on a tremendous scientific effort. The result was that in a flash the war was over." The idea that Hiroshima ended the war in a single stroke is comforting, but it leaves out the second attack on Nagasaki and quite a lot else.

Before "Little Boy" was dropped on Hiroshima, more than 60 other Japanese cities had already been destroyed by American fire bombing. The largest death toll from a single attack (in any war) is not Hiroshima, but the fire-bombing of Tokyo in March 1945. The attack created a fire storm which took 105,000 civilian lives. That ugly record stands to this day. Then there is the little-known fact that several more atom bombs were being prepared for shipment to Tinian Island. If Japan had not surrendered on 15 August, the US air force was prepared to keep dropping atom bombs until it did.

 

[Hawks64]

from BBC article:

Seventy-five years after the Enola Gay opened its bomb bay doors, 31,000ft above Hiroshima, views on what happened that day are still deeply polarised.

Those on the ground who lived to tell the tale see themselves, understandably, as victims of an appalling crime. Sitting and talking with any "hibakusha" (survivor) is a deeply moving experience. The horrors they witnessed are almost unimaginable. Hordes of zombie like people, their skin melted and hanging in ribbons from their arms and faces; mournful cries from the thousands trapped in the tangle of collapsed and burning buildings; the smell of burned flesh. Later came the black rain and the agonising deaths from a strange new killer - radiation sickness.

But any visitor to the Hiroshima Peace Museum might justifiably ask, where is the context? After all, the atom bombs didn't come out of nowhere. You'll find scant mention of the surprise Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour, let alone the horrors of the Nanjing Massacre, or the slaughter at Peleliu, Manila, Iwo Jima and Okinawa. And so, to many Japanese, Hiroshima and Nagasaki stand oddly alone, detached from the rest of history, symbols of the unique victimhood of Japan, the only country ever to experience a nuclear attack.

The lack of context can feel equally egregious on the other side. When I last visited Hiroshima, I asked a group of visiting American college students what they had learned in school about the attack. One young man summed it up like this: "America embarked on a tremendous scientific effort. The result was that in a flash the war was over." The idea that Hiroshima ended the war in a single stroke is comforting, but it leaves out the second attack on Nagasaki and quite a lot else.

Before "Little Boy" was dropped on Hiroshima, more than 60 other Japanese cities had already been destroyed by American fire bombing. The largest death toll from a single attack (in any war) is not Hiroshima, but the fire-bombing of Tokyo in March 1945. The attack created a fire storm which took 105,000 civilian lives. That ugly record stands to this day. Then there is the little-known fact that several more atom bombs were being prepared for shipment to Tinian Island. If Japan had not surrendered on 15 August, the US air force was prepared to keep dropping atom bombs until it did.

Link to the BBC article? I'd like to read it.

 

[The Gator]

Link to the BBC article? I'd like to read it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53660059

 

[Zasada]

I have always wondered why the fire bombing of Tokyo and other Japanese cities was not viewed (by the Japanese) as enough of a catalyst to surrender as the atomic bombs were.  The firebombing was more destructive, and cost more lives than the atomic bombs.  Yes the atomic bombs forced Japan to surrender, and not the fire bombing.

I have also wondered why dropping the atomic bombs seems to be viewed with more scrutiny and criticism than fire bombing.

I'm listening to a podcast ("Revisionist History") about LeMay right now, and it deals with some of these issues.

 

[beer 30]

I have always wondered why the fire bombing of Tokyo and other Japanese cities was not viewed (by the Japanese) as enough of a catalyst to surrender as the atomic bombs were.  The firebombing was more destructive, and cost more lives than the atomic bombs.  Yes the atomic bombs forced Japan to surrender, and not the fire bombing.

I have also wondered why dropping the atomic bombs seems to be viewed with more scrutiny and criticism than fire bombing.

I'm listening to a podcast ("Revisionist History") about LeMay right now, and it deals with some of these issues.

Couple of things, just my opinions on the matter:

• LeMay hated with a capital HATE the Japanese and wanted nothing more than to wipe them and their entire race off the face of the earth. That's where the conversation starts
  
• At that point in the war, saturation bombing was accepted as a means to an end. The British (with our help) had already razed Dresden in similar fashion. Win at all costs had become the mantra of the day as America was becoming war weary. And we are talking about two different enemies. War is war and the goal is typically kill more of theirs than ours and you stand a good chance to win. The Germans kinda played by the rules, such that they are in war. The Japanese did not. They viewed prisoners as less than human and thought there was dishonor in surrender. This is why on islands that have 10,000 Japanese troops, 5 are taken captive, because they fanatically fight to the death or commit suicide. Our boys grew to view them as subhuman so reducing their country to ash was not hard to do.
  
• The Japanese themselves were preparing for invasion and willing to sacrifice all had they been asked. Estimates from Americans were over 1 million casualties to take Japan proper and it would have been mostly American boys taking the brunt. In Europe we had the British, French, Poles, etc assisting where they could. In the Pacific we were doing the heavy lifting so reducing the will to fight = reducing the American casualties. And when the entire populace is willing to take up plowshares to repel the invader, everyone then becomes a target, without prejudice. The Japanese leadership were ok with that.
  
• The atomic bombs showed the technological advantage America had over Japan. The Japanese didn't know how many more bombs we had and while they were prepared to fight to the death on their soil, there was no one to kill when the enemy was 30,000 feet up dropping bombs on you. All that said, I'm still surprised they capitulated as quickly as they did.
  

 

[Zasada]

I guess this ultimately boils-down to the drama of a one-bomb destruction vs a conventional one -- even if the latter takes more lives.

We see it in today's world.  3,000 die in the 9/11 attacks, and it defines a generation and the country.  30,000 die from influenza, and it's still tough to convince any more than a third of the population to get immunized.

I very much understand why the bombs were dropped (to force a surrender without a costly ground invasion), but had trouble understanding why fire bombing was less surrender-inducing than the atomic bombs.

And humanity is quite lucky that we've only seen the use of these weapons twice.  There are multiple instances of nuclear annihilation almost caused human error or faulty instruments.  One of the most scary.  It's incredible that we haven't destroyed ourselves, yet.

 

[BobbyLayne]

79 years ago today

Unleashing the Atom: The Bombing of Hiroshima - War Against Humanity

 

[IvanKaramazov]

We were very lucky that we developed atomic weapons before Germany, and using them against Japan was a wise (and pretty easy honestly) decision by Truman.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Reading a very interesting book entitled: Nuclear Warfare: A Scenario by Annie Jacobsen. The threat of nuclear annihilation of an extremely large percentage of the world's population is a very real possibility.

 

[higgins]

Reading a very interesting book entitled: Nuclear Warfare: A Scenario by Annie Jacobsen. The threat of nuclear annihilation of an extremely large percentage of the world's population is a very real possibility.

I’ve seen multiple interviews with her — scary ####.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I’m visiting Pearl Harbor today. Totally crazy that it happens to be on the anniversary.

(Obviously it’s two separate events but they’re certainly related)

 

[Sand]

from BBC article:

Seventy-five years after the Enola Gay opened its bomb bay doors, 31,000ft above Hiroshima, views on what happened that day are still deeply polarised.

Those on the ground who lived to tell the tale see themselves, understandably, as victims of an appalling crime. Sitting and talking with any "hibakusha" (survivor) is a deeply moving experience. The horrors they witnessed are almost unimaginable. Hordes of zombie like people, their skin melted and hanging in ribbons from their arms and faces; mournful cries from the thousands trapped in the tangle of collapsed and burning buildings; the smell of burned flesh. Later came the black rain and the agonising deaths from a strange new killer - radiation sickness.

But any visitor to the Hiroshima Peace Museum might justifiably ask, where is the context? After all, the atom bombs didn't come out of nowhere. You'll find scant mention of the surprise Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour, let alone the horrors of the Nanjing Massacre, or the slaughter at Peleliu, Manila, Iwo Jima and Okinawa. And so, to many Japanese, Hiroshima and Nagasaki stand oddly alone, detached from the rest of history, symbols of the unique victimhood of Japan, the only country ever to experience a nuclear attack.

The lack of context can feel equally egregious on the other side. When I last visited Hiroshima, I asked a group of visiting American college students what they had learned in school about the attack. One young man summed it up like this: "America embarked on a tremendous scientific effort. The result was that in a flash the war was over." The idea that Hiroshima ended the war in a single stroke is comforting, but it leaves out the second attack on Nagasaki and quite a lot else.

Before "Little Boy" was dropped on Hiroshima, more than 60 other Japanese cities had already been destroyed by American fire bombing. The largest death toll from a single attack (in any war) is not Hiroshima, but the fire-bombing of Tokyo in March 1945. The attack created a fire storm which took 105,000 civilian lives. That ugly record stands to this day. Then there is the little-known fact that several more atom bombs were being prepared for shipment to Tinian Island. If Japan had not surrendered on 15 August, the US air force was prepared to keep dropping atom bombs until it did.

One item, a incredibly important item, left out of these discussions concerns Allied POWs in Japan at the end of the war. Japan took about 135,000 prisoners, killed 35,000 of them during the war. At the end of the war there were ~100,000 left (I didn't find an exact number, but the exact number doesn't matter too much here).

Why is this important? Simply put, Japan issued an ALL KILL order for all POWs if Japan was invaded. Hiroshima and Nagasaki short circuited that order. Tens of thousands made it home thanks to the bombs.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Kill_All_Prisoners_Order


(As an aside that kill rate while in captivity is 7x the death rate compared to Germany. Japan was brutal to POWs.)

 

[beer 30]

Reading a very interesting book entitled: Nuclear Warfare: A Scenario by Annie Jacobsen. The threat of nuclear annihilation of an extremely large percentage of the world's population is a very real possibility.

I recommend it to everyone I can, fantastic countdown to what will (not can) happen once a nuclear launch occurs. Will it end up the way the book does? Maybe not but it doesn't take much of an imagination to get there. And it's all based on 1950's technology...sleep well tonight

Anecdote to my note from 2020 a few posts up - My brother was an MP in the Air Force stationed in England during the 50's. He met LeMay a few times and was a huge fan. It was hard for me to reconcile that after I read up a little on LeMay. Certainly an interesting time to grow up between the end of WWII, Korea and then Vietnam.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Reading a very interesting book entitled: Nuclear Warfare: A Scenario by Annie Jacobsen. The threat of nuclear annihilation of an extremely large percentage of the world's population is a very real possibility.

I recommend it to everyone I can, fantastic countdown to what will (not can) happen once a nuclear launch occurs. Will it end up the way the book does? Maybe not but it doesn't take much of an imagination to get there. And it's all based on 1950's technology...sleep well tonight

Anecdote to my note from 2020 a few posts up - My brother was an MP in the Air Force stationed in England during the 50's. He met LeMay a few times and was a huge fan. It was hard for me to reconcile that after I read up a little on LeMay. Certainly an interesting time to grow up between the end of WWII, Korea and then Vietnam.

I really is about what will , not can. Scary ****.

 

[AAABatteries]

Reading a very interesting book entitled: Nuclear Warfare: A Scenario by Annie Jacobsen. The threat of nuclear annihilation of an extremely large percentage of the world's population is a very real possibility.

I recommend it to everyone I can, fantastic countdown to what will (not can) happen once a nuclear launch occurs. Will it end up the way the book does? Maybe not but it doesn't take much of an imagination to get there. And it's all based on 1950's technology...sleep well tonight

Anecdote to my note from 2020 a few posts up - My brother was an MP in the Air Force stationed in England during the 50's. He met LeMay a few times and was a huge fan. It was hard for me to reconcile that after I read up a little on LeMay. Certainly an interesting time to grow up between the end of WWII, Korea and then Vietnam.

I really is about what will , not can. Scary ****.

Is there a tl;dr you guys can share? I mean, it feels like everyone is aware that nuclear war could do this. Is there something she reveals that isn't somewhat common knowledge?

 

[dickey moe]

Reading a very interesting book entitled: Nuclear Warfare: A Scenario by Annie Jacobsen. The threat of nuclear annihilation of an extremely large percentage of the world's population is a very real possibility.

I’ve seen multiple interviews with her — scary ####.

Basically, you wouldn’t want to survive a full nuclear exchange.

 

[beer 30]

Reading a very interesting book entitled: Nuclear Warfare: A Scenario by Annie Jacobsen. The threat of nuclear annihilation of an extremely large percentage of the world's population is a very real possibility.

I recommend it to everyone I can, fantastic countdown to what will (not can) happen once a nuclear launch occurs. Will it end up the way the book does? Maybe not but it doesn't take much of an imagination to get there. And it's all based on 1950's technology...sleep well tonight

Anecdote to my note from 2020 a few posts up - My brother was an MP in the Air Force stationed in England during the 50's. He met LeMay a few times and was a huge fan. It was hard for me to reconcile that after I read up a little on LeMay. Certainly an interesting time to grow up between the end of WWII, Korea and then Vietnam.

I really is about what will , not can. Scary ****.

Is there a tl;dr you guys can share? I mean, it feels like everyone is aware that nuclear war could do this. Is there something she reveals that isn't somewhat common knowledge?

Yea sure, below is what I posted in the What Are You Reading Now thread. The best synopsis of the book is on this podcast if that's your thing, it's about 3 hours but she covers everything in the book, SRS Podcast #120 w/Annie Jacobson.

She did a brief podcast with Dan Carlin discussing this book and some other issues. Sounded good so started it yesterday. It starts with a little backstory then goes to a launch and what follows after. She interviewed all the right folks to write the book (listed at the beginning of the book). I think we all understand that nuclear war ends civilization as we know it but we've all grown up with the threat of nuclear weapons so we are accustomed to them. This book brings it home pretty quickly that the speed at which society would end is roughly 25-30 minutes. Launch at warning is the current US policy meaning that if a nuclear launch is detected, the US will launch a retaliatory strike before the missiles hit the US. This cuts down the time to establish what is happening to basically the flight time of an ICBM. Pretty good so far.

Edit - Finished it this weekend (6/9). I think we all know what happens with MAD, this details it from 2-3 seconds after first launch to final impacts and the unbelievably short period of time it takes to doom human civilization. It's impressive, depressing and makes you want to try to put nuclear weapons back in the bottle. It's incredible what a razor's edge we walk with these weapons.

 

[Big Blue Wrecking Crew]

Reading a very interesting book entitled: Nuclear Warfare: A Scenario by Annie Jacobsen. The threat of nuclear annihilation of an extremely large percentage of the world's population is a very real possibility.

I recommend it to everyone I can, fantastic countdown to what will (not can) happen once a nuclear launch occurs. Will it end up the way the book does? Maybe not but it doesn't take much of an imagination to get there. And it's all based on 1950's technology...sleep well tonight

Anecdote to my note from 2020 a few posts up - My brother was an MP in the Air Force stationed in England during the 50's. He met LeMay a few times and was a huge fan. It was hard for me to reconcile that after I read up a little on LeMay. Certainly an interesting time to grow up between the end of WWII, Korea and then Vietnam.

I really is about what will , not can. Scary ****.

Is there a tl;dr you guys can share? I mean, it feels like everyone is aware that nuclear war could do this. Is there something she reveals that isn't somewhat common knowledge?

Nuclear War: A Scenario - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Interesting tidbit within: In April 2024, it was announced that production studio Legendary Entertainment purchased the rights to adapt the book into a film, with Canadian director Denis Villeneuve set to direct.

 

[AAABatteries]

Reading a very interesting book entitled: Nuclear Warfare: A Scenario by Annie Jacobsen. The threat of nuclear annihilation of an extremely large percentage of the world's population is a very real possibility.

I recommend it to everyone I can, fantastic countdown to what will (not can) happen once a nuclear launch occurs. Will it end up the way the book does? Maybe not but it doesn't take much of an imagination to get there. And it's all based on 1950's technology...sleep well tonight

Anecdote to my note from 2020 a few posts up - My brother was an MP in the Air Force stationed in England during the 50's. He met LeMay a few times and was a huge fan. It was hard for me to reconcile that after I read up a little on LeMay. Certainly an interesting time to grow up between the end of WWII, Korea and then Vietnam.

I really is about what will , not can. Scary ****.

Is there a tl;dr you guys can share? I mean, it feels like everyone is aware that nuclear war could do this. Is there something she reveals that isn't somewhat common knowledge?

Yea sure, below is what I posted in the What Are You Reading Now thread. The best synopsis of the book is on this podcast if that's your thing, it's about 3 hours but she covers everything in the book, SRS Podcast #120 w/Annie Jacobson.

She did a brief podcast with Dan Carlin discussing this book and some other issues. Sounded good so started it yesterday. It starts with a little backstory then goes to a launch and what follows after. She interviewed all the right folks to write the book (listed at the beginning of the book). I think we all understand that nuclear war ends civilization as we know it but we've all grown up with the threat of nuclear weapons so we are accustomed to them. This book brings it home pretty quickly that the speed at which society would end is roughly 25-30 minutes. Launch at warning is the current US policy meaning that if a nuclear launch is detected, the US will launch a retaliatory strike before the missiles hit the US. This cuts down the time to establish what is happening to basically the flight time of an ICBM. Pretty good so far.

Edit - Finished it this weekend (6/9). I think we all know what happens with MAD, this details it from 2-3 seconds after first launch to final impacts and the unbelievably short period of time it takes to doom human civilization. It's impressive, depressing and makes you want to try to put nuclear weapons back in the bottle. It's incredible what a razor's edge we walk with these weapons.

Thanks - this is interesting. And while I get your point, it doesn't depress or scare me at all as I feel completely powerless to do anything about it. It is crazy to think about though.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

She’s a charlatan peddling a book.

 

[beer 30]

She’s a charlatan peddling a book.

How so?

 

[Joe Schmo]

She’s a charlatan peddling a book.

How so?

Yeah I'm reading up on her and there is nothing to suggest she is a charlatan. Perhaps she likes to make money from her work but that's different than being a fake.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

She’s a charlatan peddling a book.

How so?

Fear mongering for profit, imo.

 

[beer 30]

She’s a charlatan peddling a book.

How so?

Fear mongering for profit, imo.

Ah gotcha. I've heard that from other spots as well and I get it, I'm sure there are folks that look at it that way and I don't have a problem with it. To each their own. I wouldn't use the word charlatan, just call her a fear monger for profit. Think that fits better.

I thought the book was enlightening and informational. To AAA's point, there really isn't anything to fear (other than the unknown I guess) because if it does happen, it will be quick enough that the majority of us probably won't even know it happened, just poof.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Another good entry in a similar genre. I can't vouch for the other book that people are talking about, but I enjoyed this one.

 

[beer 30]

Another good entry in a similar genre. I can't vouch for the other book that people are talking about, but I enjoyed this one.

Funny, the antagonist in the book we are discussing is North Korea.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Another good entry in a similar genre. I can't vouch for the other book that people are talking about, but I enjoyed this one.

Funny, the antagonist in the book we are discussing is North Korea.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Reading a very interesting book entitled: Nuclear Warfare: A Scenario by Annie Jacobsen. The threat of nuclear annihilation of an extremely large percentage of the world's population is a very real possibility.

I recommend it to everyone I can, fantastic countdown to what will (not can) happen once a nuclear launch occurs. Will it end up the way the book does? Maybe not but it doesn't take much of an imagination to get there. And it's all based on 1950's technology...sleep well tonight

Anecdote to my note from 2020 a few posts up - My brother was an MP in the Air Force stationed in England during the 50's. He met LeMay a few times and was a huge fan. It was hard for me to reconcile that after I read up a little on LeMay. Certainly an interesting time to grow up between the end of WWII, Korea and then Vietnam.

I really is about what will , not can. Scary ****.

Is there a tl;dr you guys can share? I mean, it feels like everyone is aware that nuclear war could do this. Is there something she reveals that isn't somewhat common knowledge?

Yea sure, below is what I posted in the What Are You Reading Now thread. The best synopsis of the book is on this podcast if that's your thing, it's about 3 hours but she covers everything in the book, SRS Podcast #120 w/Annie Jacobson.

She did a brief podcast with Dan Carlin discussing this book and some other issues. Sounded good so started it yesterday. It starts with a little backstory then goes to a launch and what follows after. She interviewed all the right folks to write the book (listed at the beginning of the book). I think we all understand that nuclear war ends civilization as we know it but we've all grown up with the threat of nuclear weapons so we are accustomed to them. This book brings it home pretty quickly that the speed at which society would end is roughly 25-30 minutes. Launch at warning is the current US policy meaning that if a nuclear launch is detected, the US will launch a retaliatory strike before the missiles hit the US. This cuts down the time to establish what is happening to basically the flight time of an ICBM. Pretty good so far.

Edit - Finished it this weekend (6/9). I think we all know what happens with MAD, this details it from 2-3 seconds after first launch to final impacts and the unbelievably short period of time it takes to doom human civilization. It's impressive, depressing and makes you want to try to put nuclear weapons back in the bottle. It's incredible what a razor's edge we walk with these weapons.

Excellent explanation beer30

It was very eye-opening to me, especially as she goes through the scenario second by second and minute by minute with incredible detail about the agencies, organizations and infrastructure that is effected through the process. She also has a couple other books that I have on reserve at the library I cant wait to read.

Somewhat OT but still WW2 related, I just picked up Norman Ohler's book Blitzed: Drugs in Nazi Germany. Talk about an insane historical deep dive into Nazi Germany, Hitler and "Big Pharma" in Deutschland during WW2 and its on-going legacy right up to today's society.

 

[beer 30]

Somewhat OT but still WW2 related, I just picked up Norman Ohler's book Blitzed: Drugs in Nazi Germany. Talk about an insane historical deep dive into Nazi Germany, Hitler and "Big Pharma" in Deutschland during WW2 and its on-going legacy right up to today's society.

Is that because of his podcast with Rogan or did you find it on your own? I'm listening to it now, pretty interesting stuff. I'm currently reading Chaos which is a direct result of the Nazi/LSD link.

I bought all of Jacobson's books, once I'm done with Chaos think I'm going to read either Operation Paperclip or Surprise, Kill, Vanish because I've got fan boy love for Billy Waugh.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Somewhat OT but still WW2 related, I just picked up Norman Ohler's book Blitzed: Drugs in Nazi Germany. Talk about an insane historical deep dive into Nazi Germany, Hitler and "Big Pharma" in Deutschland during WW2 and its on-going legacy right up to today's society.

Is that because of his podcast with Rogan or did you find it on your own? I'm listening to it now, pretty interesting stuff. I'm currently reading Chaos which is a direct result of the Nazi/LSD link.

I bought all of Jacobson's books, once I'm done with Chaos think I'm going to read either Operation Paperclip or Surprise, Kill, Vanish because I've got fan boy love for Billy Waugh.

Yea Rogan's podcast. Same with Annie's book.

How are her other books in comparison?

Billy "The Mustang" Waugh was a bad *** MFer...

Charles Pellegrino's book To Hell and Back is one of the best books I've read on the atom bomb attacks.

 

[beer 30]

How are her other books in comparison?

Haven't read any of them yet, I finished Nuclear War and started Chaos. Sadly I'm not one of those folks who can manage multiple books at the same time.

 

[Sand]

One item, a incredibly important item, left out of these discussions concerns Allied POWs in Japan at the end of the war. Japan took about 135,000 prisoners, killed 35,000 of them during the war. At the end of the war there were ~100,000 left (I didn't find an exact number, but the exact number doesn't matter too much here).

Why is this important? Simply put, Japan issued an ALL KILL order for all POWs if Japan was invaded. Hiroshima and Nagasaki short circuited that order. Tens of thousands made it home thanks to the bombs.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Kill_All_Prisoners_Order


(As an aside that kill rate while in captivity is 7x the death rate compared to Germany. Japan was brutal to POWs.)

...and history repeats itself today.