bueno
In a class by himself
Yeah that sounds pretty gruesome. Not unusual for the time period, but pretty gruesome nevertheless. I'd have kept the younger women that weren't virgins too, myself.
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Hitler analogies suck. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
Good that Tim doesn't live in Miami. Many older Cubans exiles compare Fidel and Che to Hitler. They even say that Che Guevara was worse because he actually killed with his own hands and enjoyed it. The Cubans are frustrated with the glamorization of Che through his iconic photo and the admiration of Castro by unenlightened people like Jack Nicholson.
bueno
In a class by himself
I wouldn't compare him to Hitler - one could compare him to Marx or Engels maybe, or even Lincoln in some regards (though comparing Bush to Lincoln might be a better analogy). Obviously, comparing him to some Muslim despot is also repugnant. Personally if I were to compare him to anyone, it would be Carter.
bueno
In a class by himself
timschochet
Footballguy
Hitler drank beer. Ever heard of the Beer Hall Putsch? That was Hitler. He drank in the middle of it.
Otis
Footballguy
Eephus
Footballguy
he didn't swallow
RudiStein
*Not really a bail bondsman
Flying V
Footballguy
Oh, that was from a movie? I had no idea.
snitwitch
Footballguy
Not even close. Older Cuban exiles are upset because they had their #### taken away by Fidel and Che, but the mass extermination industrial complex created by Nazi Germany was 1000x worse than anything that went on in Cuba.
bentley
Footballguy
Is this your attempt at humor?
Addai's Adidas
Footballguy
It's not like the Nazi's ate the Jews.
Clarence the barber
Footballguy
Like Timsochet, Hitler had some good ideas 
Even Pat Buchanan thinks both are men of peace and of great courage and have extraordinary gifts.Like Timsochet, Hitler had some good ideas
BTW, this thread is Honda.....Tim three years ago.....
The Nazi Analogy, and how it's hurting us
Some things never change.
grateful zed
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
George Soros said yesterday that Fox News reminded him of Goebbels Ministry of Propaganda.
STOP IT!!!!
STOP IT!!!!
RudiStein
*Not really a bail bondsman
What's wrong with that? Seriously.You've never hear of hyperbole?
Disco Stu
Confirmed FBGal
Hyperbole is worse than Hitler.
ODoyleRules
Footballguy
btw - are swear words in an embedded youtube clip circumventing the language filter?
There's.....umm... a WHOLE LOT wrong with that. WE really don't need that kind of hyperbole (unless it's SNL or some other comedic show designed around hyperbole).
RudiStein
*Not really a bail bondsman
Tim's head just asploded.
RudiStein
*Not really a bail bondsman
So can we get some sort of list as to what is acceptable?
timschochet
Footballguy
It's stupid. It's offensive, IMO. I can't stand Fox News. But this is just way out of bounds. We need to shun anyone who makes these analogies. (That includes many of the hosts of Fox News BTW, especially Glenn Beck who does it all the time.)
RudiStein
*Not really a bail bondsman
Why is it offensive? Why is it out of bounds?IT'S HYPERBOLE"It's hot as hell in the summer". "Jimi Hendrix was a guitar god".
Road Dogg
Footballguy
RudiStein
*Not really a bail bondsman
It's offensive to God.
Road Dogg
Footballguy
by god you mean Clapton, right?
guderian
Footballguy
Hitler analogies, if properly used, convey a very critical message that we really shouldn't forget--that is that democracy is a fragile thing and that we often have to pay a price to maintain a vibrant democracy. The "Hitler" lesson, in my opinion, is that one can exploit a situation to incrementally accumulate power that could eventually threaten the democracy. The ill-informed don't know that in many respects Germany had a more diverse democracy than we have because they had a greater number of political parties yet Hitler was able to exploit their dire economic situation, create additional catalysts (Reichstag Fire) and ended up pushing through the Enabling Act even though the Nazi party had never received a majority of the vote in any open election. I'm a Republican and even I wince at what happened in the US following a relatively minor attack compared to what's possible--the Patriot Act, Gitmo, the Iraq war. Heck, I saw muslims booted off of airplane's first hand. Now imagine if it had been a larger attack and it had happened during the financial collapse in '08. Sure these analogies are over-used and many ill-informed people interpret them incorrectly, but the true lesson--that we have to be mindful of the larger implications of our actions during unsettling times--is one that needs to be repeated.
Nigel Tufnel
Footballguy
Hitler is to humanity as Brendan Fraser is to acting.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
timschochet, on 14 Sept 2010 - 2:14 PM, said:
The truth is that, almost from the beginning of his life, Adolf Hitler destested all forms of religion, especially Christianity. He admired the ways the Catholic church used symbolism and ritual and imitated this in the Nazi party. But he saw his movement as opposition to the Church, and this is clear from his very early speeches. Hitler's two greatest influences on his thinking about religion in the early years were Nietzsche and Hegel, both of whom considered German culture heavily weakened by Christianity. His greatest romantic influence was Wagner, who sought to return Germany to the anti-Christian folk of the pagan gods. Hitler chose the swastika as the Nazi symbol very specifically as an alternative to the cross.
All of Hitler's speeches and vague mentionings that appear to be favorable of Christianity were nothing more than a sop to the Bavarian working class, which was strongly Catholic and which Hitler needed to soldify power in the early years. He admitted as much to his cohorts, according to direct sources (Joseph Goebbels' diary among others.) Once in power, Hitler and his pal Walter Rosenberg, a lifetime opponent of the church, immediately began persecuting ministers and priests. Their ultimate goal was a Germany without Christianity.
All of this is very well established in history, and only certain people with an axe to grind are attempting to rewrite the facts. As most people here know, I am an atheist myself, and I have no love for religion. But what I really hate is when people attempt to twist facts in order to argue their warped POV.
Of course this has everything to do with the Ferguson MO protests.timschochet, on 19 Aug 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:
The Nazis did not change the behavior of the German people. They capitalized on feelings that had always been there.
But wow, how can you of all people say that Hitler and the Nazis did not change behavior.
Excuse making for authoritarians (the worst kind here) yet again.
johnnycakes
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Are you really enjoying this?
The Nazis used symbolism. The Nazis changed the behavior of some Germans. But the symbolism that the Nazis used did not change the behavior; that served to reinforce feelings that were already there. And I didn't bring up the Nazis in the Ferguson thread; that was Henry Ford (incidentally the real Henry Ford was a deep admirer of the Nazis).
That's what I was trying to say. When I wrote that the Nazis didn't change behavior, I thought it would be clear that I was discussing symbolism, since that was the topic at hand. Of course overall the Nazis changed behavior. If I was unclear I apologize. How you take any part of this and think that I am a defender of authoritarianism is beyond me.
The Nazis used symbolism. The Nazis changed the behavior of some Germans. But the symbolism that the Nazis used did not change the behavior; that served to reinforce feelings that were already there. And I didn't bring up the Nazis in the Ferguson thread; that was Henry Ford (incidentally the real Henry Ford was a deep admirer of the Nazis).
That's what I was trying to say. When I wrote that the Nazis didn't change behavior, I thought it would be clear that I was discussing symbolism, since that was the topic at hand. Of course overall the Nazis changed behavior. If I was unclear I apologize. How you take any part of this and think that I am a defender of authoritarianism is beyond me.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Roger Meyers senior, the gentle genius behind Itchy and Scratchy, loved and cared about almost all the peoples of the world. And he, in turn,was beloved by the world, except in 1938 when he was criticized for his controversial cartoon, "Nazi Supermen Are Our Superiors".
msommer
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
You don't understand how this works?
The Nazis changed feelings, changed behavior, changed a whole country and the world for the worse. Through violence, corruption, intimidation. It's important, it's relevant, it certainly doesn't belong in the Ferguson MO thread but it's important you get it right in your own head.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I don't think Tim actually believes that the Nazis didn't change things in Germany. I just think he takes ridiculous positions without thinking once he's backed into a corner.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Hot Diggity Dog
Footballguy
Hitler is to the space shuttle as Pol Pot is to...?
msommer
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Ok Tim, I looked it up, you're right, Henry did bring it up. However it was valid, it reinforces the point, you cannot really see the issue with militarization of the local constabularies across the country and specifically in Ferguson?
I think your defense is explicitly authoritarian, it's an argument that legitimizes the no. 1 tool for authoritarianism, heck intimidation of the local populace is authoritarianism or at least a classic hallmark.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
He says some pretty extreme things about some pretty important subjects. From time to time. He often is the voice of moderation and reason (or tries to be, which I respect) but good grief.
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
The only thing brought up was the fact that he had discussed symbolism as a tool of the Nazi regime before saying he didn't think he'd ever discussed symbolism as a tool of control. It devolved. I have that effect on people.
Hot Diggity Dog
Footballguy
wrong answer
