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Hockey GOAT (1 Viewer)

Who is the hockey GOAT, all leagues, all time?

  • Total voters
    132
Messier won without Gretzky, but Gretzky never won without Messier. 

breaking a 54 year jinx, alone, merits inclusion up in the convo. 

:coffee:

 
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bryhamm said:
smh.  I can understand thoughts/arguments against Brady and Jordan.  But there should be zero against Grestsky.
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Only argument I can see is that Lemiuex, if he had never gotten sick, would have come close to where Wayne wound up. But that's not a very strong argument.

 
I can see the argument that Bobby Orr fundamentally changed the way the game is played, which is no small feat. 

But he's not Gretzky. 

 
Don't forget Gordie played 6 seasons in the WHA, competing against the NHL. If you add in those numbers, Gordie has 81 more goals than Gretzky but still comes about 500 points short. Take into account that Gordie didn't need a 3rd liner skating with him to protect him and the Gordie Howe hat trick, I say he was the greatest. (although interesting fact, Gordie Howe never did have an actual Gordie Howe hat trick.

 
UncleZen said:
Don't forget Gordie played 6 seasons in the WHA, competing against the NHL. If you add in those numbers, Gordie has 81 more goals than Gretzky but still comes about 500 points short. Take into account that Gordie didn't need a 3rd liner skating with him to protect him and the Gordie Howe hat trick, I say he was the greatest. (although interesting fact, Gordie Howe never did have an actual Gordie Howe hat trick.
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Howe is the Hank Aaron of hockey.

(never had a 50 goal season, Aaron never had a 50 HR season, high was 47).

great players, but not seismic level talents - they outworked most of their more celebrated peers - they did more, with less, than anybody else in their respective gigs. 

 
Points Per Game:

Gretzky: 1.92
Lemieux: 1.88
Orr: 1.39
Jagr: 1.11 
Messier: 1.07 
Howe: 1.05 

Robinson (+722) / Orr (+582)  / Bourque (+527) / Gretzky (+520) were the kings of +/-

Gretzky and Orr were the only ones at/near the top of both. 

Gretzky wins on volume. 
 

 
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Hawks64 said:
Only argument I can see is that Lemiuex, if he had never gotten sick, would have come close to where Wayne wound up. But that's not a very strong argument.
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But he did get sick (which sucks for everyone).   Longevity is a contributing factor into greatness.  

 
The player who is 133rd all time in assists (Rob Blake - 537) is closer to Ron Francis at number 2 all time (1249), than Francis is to Gretzky (1963). That is some Nolan Ryan strikeout type stuff. 

 
An argument for anyone other than Gretzky requires several sentences and disclaimers.

The "argument" for Gretzky is: see record book.

 
Orr led the league in scoring as a defenseman.  He skated around the best hockey players of the time as if they were standing still.  Unfortunately, his career was cut short due to injury but he still gets my vote.  

Wayne Gretzky #2 IMO.

 
chet said:
Orr led the league in scoring as a defenseman.  He skated around the best hockey players of the time as if they were standing still.  Unfortunately, his career was cut short due to injury but he still gets my vote.  

Wayne Gretzky #2 IMO.
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See the argument for Lemiuex, careers cut short without the records don't make the cut IMO.

 
chet said:
Orr led the league in scoring as a defenseman.  He skated around the best hockey players of the time as if they were standing still.  Unfortunately, his career was cut short due to injury but he still gets my vote.  

Wayne Gretzky #2 IMO.
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Paul Coffey was a better attacking defenseman...

 
As of now:

Wayne Gretzky 63

Mario Lemieux 0

Bobby Orr 3

Gordie Howe 3

Tom Brady 3

The fight for 2nd best all-time is legit

 
FairWarning said:
Eh, he had Gretzky though.  It’s interesting that in the top 10 scoring defensemen season, Orr and Coffey each had 5 of them.  
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To be fair, he had that entire Oiler line-up - they were legitimately 3-lines deep in the attack, and they played such an up-tempo game that they always had bodies pushed forward, leaving Fuhr to fend for himself.

 
Sinn Fein said:
To be fair, he had that entire Oiler line-up - they were legitimately 3-lines deep in the attack, and they played such an up-tempo game that they always had bodies pushed forward, leaving Fuhr to fend for himself.
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I went to see them in a Playoff game in chicago (actually the first time the fans went nuts during the anthem).  Gretzky was a stride faster than anyone else on the ice.   It was like watching the Russians play. 

 
Criteria matters, Gretzky easily best scorer, best forward, greatest career yep. Better player than Orr? Nope, Orr was as good or better than any player I and many others have ever seen. Different era's and one's career cut short via injuries (so yea I concede Gretzky gets greatest career), but Orr was every bit as good and maybe better. Before you go trashing me, do a little research, i'm hardly alone in how I feel. I understand this is not a popular opinion and that's ok, we are all comrades here so lets be passionate but civil in how we disagree. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
Paul Coffey was a better attacking defenseman...
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No.  On a good day, maybe they were close but Coffey was playing alongside Wayne, Jarri, Messier, Anderson, Semenko (hah) etc.  Orr redefined the position so Coffey could attack as a d-man.  But defensively, Coffey wasn't close. 

There is no knowledgeable hockey person who would ever rate Coffey over Orr.  There are plenty who rate Orr as the GOAT.

 
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