Housing While Black (1 Viewer)

[Fennis]

Quick question - based on everything we have heard so far, what did the police do incorrectly in this situation?

First and foremost arresting Gates. They also let the situation escalate, as opposed to managing it properly.

 

[Harry Manback]

It really doesn't get much more Boston than this.

it happened in Cambridge you moron, perhaps the most liberal city in America. Gates was being a complete jerk from all eyewittnessed accounts.

Take a walk through Cambridge center at like 2pm, you'll know what this means.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

It really doesn't get much more Boston than this.

it happened in Cambridge you moron, perhaps the most liberal city in America. Gates was being a complete jerk from all eyewittnessed accounts.

moron?ease up there, furious. don't want to see you get arrested in here.

 

[Nigel]

Why do so many black people feel the police treat them unfairly?

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Aww ####, I'll bite on this.Black people feel the police treat them unfairly because a lot of times they do.

Is there such thing as racial profiling? Yes. Is it right? No.

Is this incident an example of racial profiling? No.

Thanks. I'm personally torn on the issue and undecided, although I do think race played a factor, how much I do not know. I know Gates could have diffused the situation if he behaved differently. But so could have the cop, and it the cop's responsibility to manage the situation, which he clearly did poorly.

At what point in the incident do you believe race became a factor?

 

[Da Guru]

Quick question - based on everything we have heard so far, what did the police do incorrectly in this situation?

First and foremost arresting Gates. They also let the situation escalate, as opposed to managing it properly.

Based on everything we have read and heard what did Gates do incorrectly to escalate the situation?

 

[Winston Wolfe]

It really doesn't get much more Boston than this.

it happened in Cambridge you moron, perhaps the most liberal city in America. Gates was being a complete jerk from all eyewittnessed accounts.

moron?ease up there, furious. don't want to see you get arrested in here.

Rude,Hold off on taking out the cuffs. I implore you.

 

[StrikeS2k]

It really doesn't get much more Boston than this.

it happened in Cambridge you moron, perhaps the most liberal city in America. Gates was being a complete jerk from all eyewittnessed accounts.

moron?ease up there, furious. don't want to see you get arrested in here.

You guys don't arrest. You go straight to conviction

 

[Nigel]

It really doesn't get much more Boston than this.

it happened in Cambridge you moron, perhaps the most liberal city in America. Gates was being a complete jerk from all eyewittnessed accounts.

Take a walk through Cambridge center at like 2pm, you'll know what this means.

dude - what is "Cambridge center"?

 

[Witz]

Quick question - based on everything we have heard so far, what did the police do incorrectly in this situation?

First and foremost arresting Gates. They also let the situation escalate, as opposed to managing it properly.

Fair enough. What could the police have done to not let the situation escalate? There have been no reports that the police were disrespectful or loud and forceful to Gates at any time during this exchange (and actually went out of their way to treat him with respect i.e. handcuffed in front, getting his cane, allowing him to wait at the station outside a jail cell with friends, etc).

 

[Furious Styles]

Quick question - based on everything we have heard so far, what did the police do incorrectly in this situation?

First and foremost arresting Gates. They also let the situation escalate, as opposed to managing it properly.

Based on everything we have read and heard what did Gates do incorrectly to escalate the situation?

from what is being reported here locally in MA Gates was asked to provide some ID, refused. He was then asked to come out to the porch, he refused by saying I'll come out there if your Mama is here. He finally showed them a Harvard ID, the Harvard police were called and came upon the scene. He was properly identified and the cops were going to leave but Gates kept yelling at him. They told him to calm down multiple times but he didn't let up and they finally cuffed him for disorderly conduct. The cop in question happens to have a very clean record and was most noted for giving Reggie Lewis (former Celtic) mouth-to-mouth trying to revive him when he died.

 

[GroveDiesel]

It really doesn't get much more Boston than this.

it happened in Cambridge you moron, perhaps the most liberal city in America. Gates was being a complete jerk from all eyewittnessed accounts.

moron?ease up there, furious. don't want to see you get arrested in here.

I'LL TAKE YO MOMMA OUTSIDE!

 

[Fennis]

At what point in the incident do you believe race became a factor?

From the very start race was a factor. Gates distrust of the police is because of race. Maybe his neighbors not knowing him was (thats pure speculation I have no way of knowing). The cops experiences dealing with black people is a factor. Gates reaction to the police at this door. The cops reaction to seeing a black man in a large home. Race was not the only factor, maybe not even the primary factor some of the time, but it was always a factor.

 

[Buckychudd]

Why do so many black people feel the police treat them unfairly?

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bump

Aww ####, I'll bite on this.Black people feel the police treat them unfairly because a lot of times they do.Is there such thing as racial profiling? Yes. Is it right? No.Is this incident an example of racial profiling? No.

Thanks. I'm personally torn on the issue and undecided, although I do think race played a factor, how much I do not know. I know Gates could have diffused the situation if he behaved differently. But so could have the cop, and it the cop's responsibility to manage the situation, which he clearly did poorly.

I agree it was the cop's responsibility to manage the situation, he probably did it poorly.If the police's vesion of events is true, do you think the outcome would have been different if it was a white man?

 

[Winston Wolfe]

Quick question - based on everything we have heard so far, what did the police do incorrectly in this situation?

First and foremost arresting Gates. They also let the situation escalate, as opposed to managing it properly.

Based on everything we have read and heard what did Gates do incorrectly to escalate the situation?

1.) Refused to comply with an officer's request to step out of his residence.2.) Initially refused to provide identification after the officer stated why he was there3.) Refused to answer another question asked by the officer "Is there anyone else in the house"4.) Allegedly made a phone call while stating "don't you know who I am" and you will regret this.5.) After providing ID, Gates allegedly was yelling at the officer, berating him, calling him a racist and make a comment about the officer's mother.Everything above shows that Gates was uncooperative on some level.In Gates' own interview, he stated that "the hair was standing up on my neck" almost immediately upon opening the door and the officer asked him to step outside. IMMEDIATELY

 

[Fennis]

If the police's vesion of events is true, do you think the outcome would have been different if it was a white man?

I dont think the situation would have occured the way it did if it were a white man.

 

[SofaKings]

Lawrence Bobo is the W.E.B. Du Bois Professor of the Social Sciences at Harvard University.

Sounds like this guy is a close colleague of the "victim" and potentially a good friend. Do you think this is really representative?

I believe Bobo actually picked up Gates at the police station. In college during the winter we stumbled home from the bar after happy hour. No one had keys. We busted the basement window and lowered the smallest guy through the window. He let us in. Next thing I know we are upstairs and someone says "cops are here". Neighbor reported a break in. I went to the side door popped the light on and immediately opened the door. The light blinded the cops who ducked back and yelled "freeze" and drew their weapons on me. I froze. Literally. Time stood still. They had me come outside(I invited them in since it was freezing but they declined) and give them ID and talk with them for a few. Asking me if I lived here and what the address was etc. Thankfully they didn't come inside as I was ####faced and my roommates were upstairs passing the bong amongst other things. Knew one of the cops and saw him around a few days later and he said I was "really lucky". He said if I had been belligerent at all(I'm a happy drunk) I would have spent the night in the lockup.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I agree that the best action would have been to just let it go and leave. Obviously the Crowley could have let this one go and walked away. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Gates wasn't technically being disorderly.

I think it's pretty obvious from all accounts, including the cops', that what Gates did was not criminally disorderly conduct. He wasn't inciting a riot. He wasn't fighting or physically threatening anybody, or engaging in violent or tumultuous behavior, or creating a hazardous or physically offensive condition. There was no way that charge was ever going to hold up, and the cops knew it when they made the arrest.

It seems like a pretty subjective standard and this would certainly be on the lower end of the scale, but I think that Gates very possibly acted "with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm." But you'd have to ask the large group of bystanders that had gathered I guess to see if they felt annoyed or alarmed. I'd probably be somewhat alarmed if someone came out of their house screaming at the police about them being racists and what not.ETA: Gates also screamed "do you know who I am, you are going to pay for this" at Crowley. Seems like a threat to me.

Screaming "you are going to pay for this" is not a physical threat. The statute is interpreted to mean, essentially, inciting a riot. There's just no way to make that stick against a kooky old man yelling non-violent stuff from his front porch.

Link?

Here are some explanations of how the disorderly conduct statute is interpreted in MA.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I agree that the best action would have been to just let it go and leave. Obviously the Crowley could have let this one go and walked away. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Gates wasn't technically being disorderly.

I think it's pretty obvious from all accounts, including the cops', that what Gates did was not criminally disorderly conduct. He wasn't inciting a riot. He wasn't fighting or physically threatening anybody, or engaging in violent or tumultuous behavior, or creating a hazardous or physically offensive condition. There was no way that charge was ever going to hold up, and the cops knew it when they made the arrest.

It seems like a pretty subjective standard and this would certainly be on the lower end of the scale, but I think that Gates very possibly acted "with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm." But you'd have to ask the large group of bystanders that had gathered I guess to see if they felt annoyed or alarmed. I'd probably be somewhat alarmed if someone came out of their house screaming at the police about them being racists and what not.ETA: Gates also screamed "do you know who I am, you are going to pay for this" at Crowley. Seems like a threat to me.

Screaming "you are going to pay for this" is not a physical threat. The statute is interpreted to mean, essentially, inciting a riot. There's just no way to make that stick against a kooky old man yelling non-violent stuff from his front porch.

Whether the charge would stick or not (it was dropped anyway, right?) is irrelevant and it's a far cry from what this has turned into.Making a wrong call on a borderline decision about whether or not this was really disorderly conduct is one thing. That happens and is not a big deal.That's not what this is about though. He's being called a racist and this is being used as evidence of racial profiling. There is absolutely no reason to think this could possibly be the case.Maybe the arrest shouldn't have happened, but it was certainly borderline and it sounds like the cop was respectful in making the arrest. Probably happens quite often when someone's verbally abusive and uncooperative with a cop.Making this into a race issue is just crazy.

I've never called him a racist. I just don't think it was a borderline decision.

 

[Da Guru]

At what point in the incident do you believe race became a factor?

From the very start race was a factor. Gates distrust of the police is because of race. Maybe his neighbors not knowing him was (thats pure speculation I have no way of knowing). The cops experiences dealing with black people is a factor. Gates reaction to the police at this door. The cops reaction to seeing a black man in a large home. Race was not the only factor, maybe not even the primary factor some of the time, but it was always a factor.

The bottom line is that if Gates just complies and shows his ID right away..this incident is probably over in less than 5 minutes.It is much easier to comply with a police office who is on a run that to try to be confrontational. Then after things are settled down Gates could ask why this happened, and the officer could have explained that a BE in progress at his residence was called in.

 

[SofaKings]

At what point in the incident do you believe race became a factor?

From the very start race was a factor. Gates distrust of the police is because of race. Maybe his neighbors not knowing him was (thats pure speculation I have no way of knowing). The cops experiences dealing with black people is a factor. Gates reaction to the police at this door. The cops reaction to seeing a black man in a large home. Race was not the only factor, maybe not even the primary factor some of the time, but it was always a factor.

Maybe if Gates had gotten the "black card" chip off his shoulder he wouldn't have badmouthed the cop or refused a law enforcement officials commands.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Being belligerent is not illegal.

I'm not saying that he's factually innocent of disorderly conduct because the chargers were dropped. I'm saying he's factually innocent because he didn't do anything that even arguably amounted to criminal conduct under MA law. (Which is why the charges were dropped.)

You talking in circles here. In your opinion what he did was not disorderly. In quite a number of other individuals (including the police on hand) opinions, he was disorderly. I think I'll side with the police's opinion on this because a). they were there and neither you or I were & b). this is what they do day in and day out.

I don't think the bolded part is true. I think the police all knew that Gates was innocent of criminally disorderly conduct.

'You are going to pay for this' is not inciteful or a physical threat?

No, of course it isn't.

What would any reasonable individual believe a man who was handcuffed shouting that phrase would mean?

That he'd issue a negative press release, or possibly file a civil suit.

 

[Buckychudd]

If the police's vesion of events is true, do you think the outcome would have been different if it was a white man?

I dont think the situation would have occured the way it did if it were a white man.

Ok, I certainly understand your earlier point in which it was a cascade of events where race could have played a part in many decisions. Not sure I completely agree, but I can see that.

 

[jamny]

Has Obama apoligized yet?

 

[Witz]

Being belligerent is not illegal.

I'm not saying that he's factually innocent of disorderly conduct because the chargers were dropped. I'm saying he's factually innocent because he didn't do anything that even arguably amounted to criminal conduct under MA law. (Which is why the charges were dropped.)

You talking in circles here. In your opinion what he did was not disorderly. In quite a number of other individuals (including the police on hand) opinions, he was disorderly. I think I'll side with the police's opinion on this because a). they were there and neither you or I were & b). this is what they do day in and day out.

I don't think the bolded part is true. I think the police all knew that Gates was innocent of criminally disorderly conduct.

'You are going to pay for this' is not inciteful or a physical threat?

No, of course it isn't.

What would any reasonable individual believe a man who was handcuffed shouting that phrase would mean?

That he'd issue a negative press release, or possibly file a civil suit.

I'm at a loss to respond to your comments. You have to be fishing here because there is no reasonable explanation based on your responses. - You believe the police knew he was innocent but arrested him anyway? You know this how? Link?

- Handcuffed man shouts 'You are going to pay for this' and that is not inciteful or threatening? Wow.

- Handcuffed man shouts 'You are going to pay for this' and you say that a reasonable person would think 'negative press release' or possibly a 'civil lawsuit'? Come on now.

Bravo and well played.

 

[Statorama]

Has Obama apoligized yet?

I'm really shocked that the police union hasn't had a press conference demanding one.Obama was WAY out of line there.

 

[pollardsvision]

At what point in the incident do you believe race became a factor?

From the very start race was a factor. Gates distrust of the police is because of race. Maybe his neighbors not knowing him was (thats pure speculation I have no way of knowing). The cops experiences dealing with black people is a factor. Gates reaction to the police at this door. The cops reaction to seeing a black man in a large home. Race was not the only factor, maybe not even the primary factor some of the time, but it was always a factor.

This wasn't the angle I thought you were getting at. Your take seems to be that Gates' issues with race were the major factor in all of this. I can't disagree with that at all. The only person mentioning race here (besides people not involved with the event) is Gates, so that makes sense.We still have no reason to believe that race played a part in any of the cop's actions.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Has Obama apoligized yet?

No, but he "clarified" his comments:

SHAKER HEIGHTS, Ohio – The White House said Thursday that President Obama does not regret saying that the police “acted stupidly” in their arrest of the Harvard scholar, Henry Louis Gates Jr., last week in Cambridge, Mass., a dispute that has touched off a discussion about racial profiling in America.

As Mr. Obama traveled to Ohio to promote his health care agenda, his spokesman told reporters that president did not lament his unusually blunt comments made during a press conference Wednesday evening at the White House. But the spokesman sought to clarify the remarks, according to a pool report from Air Force One.

“Let me be clear: he was not calling the officer stupid, O.K.?” said Robert Gibbs, the White House press secretary. He said the president was simply saying that “at a certain point the situation got far out of hand, and I think all sides understand that.”

Mr. Obama has not spoken to Mr. Gates about the matter, Mr. Gibbs said.

The president is scheduled to participate in a town meeting here in Shaker Heights, a suburb of Cleveland. Aides said they did not expect Mr. Obama to address the arrest during the afternoon appearance here.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07...mbridge-police/

 

[Gadabout]

Smart + black = can do no wrong.

 

[Nigel]

If the police's vesion of events is true, do you think the outcome would have been different if it was a white man?

I dont think the situation would have occured the way it did if it were a white man.

Of course it wouldn't have - what sense would it have made for a white guy to bait a cop trying to do his job with unfounded charges of racism.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

- You believe the police knew he was innocent but arrested him anyway? You know this how? Link?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.They know he's innocent because they saw him, they were there, and all he did was yell stuff from his porch (according to their own written reports). A cop knows that a disorderly conduct charge for porch-yelling will not stick.

- Handcuffed man shouts 'You are going to pay for this' and that is not inciteful or threatening? Wow.

- Handcuffed man shouts 'You are going to pay for this' and you say that a reasonable person would think 'negative press release' or possibly a 'civil lawsuit'? Come on now.

Of course. What else could it possibly mean? An old fellow with a sleight build tells armed police officers that they'll regret arresting him, and you think it means he's going to bust out some ninja kung fu moves on them?

 

[Statorama]

Skip is one of the most readily recognized black men in America

Bobo please.

 

[jonessed]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/...gates-comments/

CNN) — White Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said Thursday that President Obama does not regret saying Cambridge, Massachusetts police "acted stupidly" in arresting Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr.

Asked aboard Air Force One whether the president regrets the choice of words, Gibbs told reporters that Obama, who made the remarks at Wednesday night's White House press conference, "was not calling the [arresting] officer stupid. The situation got out of hand."

The police aren't stupid, they just act stupid

 

[Furious Styles]

Has Obama apoligized yet?

I'm really shocked that the police union hasn't had a press conference demanding one.Obama was WAY out of line there.

Obama should apologize because he didn't know anything about the case and his statement immediately made it harder for every cop in this country to properly do their job. Much like women who make false claims of rape make it harder to punish the true rapists, backing someone who plays the race card when it is not warranted sets everyone back.

 

[pollardsvision]

Has Obama apoligized yet?

No, but he "clarified" his comments:

SHAKER HEIGHTS, Ohio – The White House said Thursday that President Obama does not regret saying that the police “acted stupidly” in their arrest of the Harvard scholar, Henry Louis Gates Jr., last week in Cambridge, Mass., a dispute that has touched off a discussion about racial profiling in America.

As Mr. Obama traveled to Ohio to promote his health care agenda, his spokesman told reporters that president did not lament his unusually blunt comments made during a press conference Wednesday evening at the White House. But the spokesman sought to clarify the remarks, according to a pool report from Air Force One.

“Let me be clear: he was not calling the officer stupid, O.K.?” said Robert Gibbs, the White House press secretary. He said the president was simply saying that “at a certain point the situation got far out of hand, and I think all sides understand that.”

Mr. Obama has not spoken to Mr. Gates about the matter, Mr. Gibbs said.

The president is scheduled to participate in a town meeting here in Shaker Heights, a suburb of Cleveland. Aides said they did not expect Mr. Obama to address the arrest during the afternoon appearance here.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07...mbridge-police/

What an awful clarification.He didn't address any of the real problems with his original statement.

The only clarification was that he didn't call the cop stupid, just that Dept. (meaning "cop") acted stupidly.

Gee, thanks Mr. President. You call a man a racist in front of a large audience and that's the best you can do?

 

[SofaKings]

Sadly, I'm not shocked that Obama has interjected himself into this local law enforcement issue.

 

[Thorn]

We still have no reason to believe that race played a part in any of the cop's actions.

/thread

 

[johnnycakes]

Has Obama apoligized yet?

I'm really shocked that the police union hasn't had a press conference demanding one.

Just announced the Cambridge PD will have a presser at 5:00pm EDT.ETA: If you're really interested, WTKKK 96.9 fm will carry it live. Click on the link then click on "Listen to Live WTKKK"

 

[GroveDiesel]

It seems like a pretty subjective standard and this would certainly be on the lower end of the scale, but I think that Gates very possibly acted "with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm." But you'd have to ask the large group of bystanders that had gathered I guess to see if they felt annoyed or alarmed. I'd probably be somewhat alarmed if someone came out of their house screaming at the police about them being racists and what not.

ETA: Gates also screamed "do you know who I am, you are going to pay for this" at Crowley. Seems like a threat to me.

Screaming "you are going to pay for this" is not a physical threat. The statute is interpreted to mean, essentially, inciting a riot. There's just no way to make that stick against a kooky old man yelling non-violent stuff from his front porch.

Link?

Here are some explanations of how the disorderly conduct statute is interpreted in MA.

From the case law the one guy quotes:

makes unreasonable noise or offensively coarse utterance, gesture or display, or addresses abusive language to any person present;

Seems like that applies rather well and is 100% speech related. Even where it's listed in the statutes clearly has nothing to do with inciting a riot. I think you're pretty clearly wrong in that regard.The first guy's entire response is based on his belief that this all happened inside the house. It didn't. Gates came out and screamed at the officer outside of his house. The police report says that the officer was almost to the sidewalk when Gates came out screaming at him. That's no longer inside the house and by any legal definition is a public place.

 

[fsword]

Has Obama apoligized yet?

I'm really shocked that the police union hasn't had a press conference demanding one.Obama was WAY out of line there.

Obama should apologize because he didn't know anything about the case and his statement immediately made it harder for every cop in this country to properly do their job. Much like women who make false claims of rape make it harder to punish the true rapists, backing someone who plays the race card when it is not warranted sets everyone back.

When has not knowing the details ever kept a politician from speaking, acting, or trying to take over large portions of the national economy?

 

[pollardsvision]

- You believe the police knew he was innocent but arrested him anyway? You know this how? Link?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.They know he's innocent because they saw him, they were there, and all he did was yell stuff from his porch (according to their own written reports). A cop knows that a disorderly conduct charge for porch-yelling will not stick.

- Handcuffed man shouts 'You are going to pay for this' and that is not inciteful or threatening? Wow.

- Handcuffed man shouts 'You are going to pay for this' and you say that a reasonable person would think 'negative press release' or possibly a 'civil lawsuit'? Come on now.

Of course. What else could it possibly mean? An old fellow with a sleight build tells armed police officers that they'll regret arresting him, and you think it means he's going to bust out some ninja kung fu moves on them?

Even if everything you say is true, I'm still curious how any of this means the cop is a racist.Cop arrests a guy making personal threats and being totally uncooperative on disorderly conduct charges that don't necessarily meet the legal definition of the charge. I could see the argument that the cop overreacted the verbal abuse he was taking. Other than that, it doesn't sound like there's a shred of evidence of any wrongdoing on the cop's part.

 

[Furious Styles]

Cop who arrested black scholar is profiling expert

By Denise Lavoie

Associated Press Writer / July 23, 2009

Cambridge Sgt. James Crowley has taught a class about racial profiling for five years at the Lowell Police Academy after being hand-picked for the job by former police Commissioner Ronny Watson, who is black, said Academy Director Thomas Fleming.

"I have nothing but the highest respect for him as a police officer. He is very professional and he is a good role model for the young recruits in the police academy," Fleming told The Associated Press on Thursday.

The course, called "Racial Profiling," teaches about different cultures that officers could encounter in their community "and how you don't want to single people out because of their ethnic background or the culture they come from," Fleming said.

Obama has said the Cambridge officers "acted stupidly" in arresting Gates last week when they responded to his house after a woman reported a suspected break-in.

Crowley, 42, has maintained he did nothing wrong and has refused to apologize, as Gates has demanded.

Crowley responded to Gates' home near Harvard University last week to investigate a report of a burglary and demanded Gates show him identification. Police say Gates at first refused, flew into a rage and accused the officer of racism.

Gates was charged with disorderly conduct. The charge was dropped Tuesday.

Gates' supporters maintain his arrest was a case of racial profiling. Officers were called to the home by a woman who said she saw "two black males with backpacks" trying to break in the front door. Gates has said he arrived home from an overseas trip and the door was jammed.

Obama was asked about the arrest of Gates, who is his friend, at the end of a nationally televised news conference on health care Wednesday night.

"I think it's fair to say, No. 1, any of us would be pretty angry," Obama said. "No. 2, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home. And No. 3 -- what I think we know separate and apart from this incident -- is that there is a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately, and that's just a fact."

In radio interviews Thursday morning, Crowley maintained he followed procedure.

"I support the president of the United States 110 percent. I think he was way off base wading into a local issue without knowing all the facts as he himself stated before he made that comment," Crowley told WBZ-AM. "I guess a friend of mine would support my position, too."

Crowley did not immediately respond to messages left Thursday by the AP. The Cambridge police department scheduled a news conference for later Thursday.

Gates has said he was "outraged" by the arrest. He said the white officer walked into his home without his permission and only arrested him as the professor followed him to the porch, repeatedly demanding the sergeant's name and badge number because he was unhappy over his treatment.

"This isn't about me; this is about the vulnerability of black men in America," Gates said.

He said the incident made him realize how vulnerable poor people and minorities are "to capricious forces like a rogue policeman, and this man clearly was a rogue policeman."

The president said federal officials need to continue working with local law enforcement "to improve policing techniques so that we're eliminating potential bias."

Fellow officers, black and white, say Crowley is well-liked and respected on the force. Crowley was a campus police officer at Brandeis University in July 1993 when he administered CPR trying to save the life of former Boston Celtics player Reggie Lewis. Lewis, who was black, collapsed and died during an off-season workout.

 

[fsword]

Maybe it was already posted here, but it seems the arresting officer was a leading citizen as far as racial profiling goes.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090723/ap_on_...olar_disorderly

 

[Witz]

- You believe the police knew he was innocent but arrested him anyway? You know this how? Link?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.They know he's innocent because they saw him, they were there, and all he did was yell stuff from his porch (according to their own written reports). A cop knows that a disorderly conduct charge for porch-yelling will not stick.

- Handcuffed man shouts 'You are going to pay for this' and that is not inciteful or threatening? Wow.

- Handcuffed man shouts 'You are going to pay for this' and you say that a reasonable person would think 'negative press release' or possibly a 'civil lawsuit'? Come on now.

Of course. What else could it possibly mean? An old fellow with a sleight build tells armed police officers that they'll regret arresting him, and you think it means he's going to bust out some ninja kung fu moves on them?

You make it seem like he was sitting on a rocking chair and yelling at kids to get off his lawn. He was yelling and belligerent to the police the moment they arrived (based on police accounts, witness accounts and his own accounts). We'll need to agree to disagree than on whether this was disorderly or not. While he just get back from China, I don't think he would be busting out ninja kung fu moves. Based on your generalization that he was an old fellow with a slight build, than there is no way he could have been threatening physical harm to the officer. While that would be nice in theory (once you get past a certain age, any thoughts of physically harming someone go away - we'll have to get our scientists working isolating that genome right away - think of it - a world without war), there are countless cases where old or elderly individuals have committed murder, etc. Long story short - he made a threatening statement and for you to try to disapprove it does an injustice to you.

 

[timschochet]

Earlier I wrote that I believe African Americans will be angry over this situation, more based on their personal experiences rather than the specific facts, though I predict they will interpret the facts very differently than many people here.

But there is another side to this story that also is becoming very angry- at Obama. These are the millions of white middle class and blue collars who pay their bills, look upon the police force as their protectors and friends, and believe in law and order and not being rude to authority. Many of these fine Americans are Democrats and they voted for Obama. I don't think they're going to take too kindly to him saying "the police behaved stupidly" even if they did. They believe, rightfully so, that police are mistreated, especially by liberals, and not regarded as the heroes they really are.

As these white Americans face increasingly more difficult economic conditions, I think they will become more and more resentful and angry at "liberal elites" who tell them that they are racist, the police are racist, etc. I believe this is an emotional, somewhat populist response to this situation, but it's very real and it needs to be recognized. Though I personally think Obama was correct in his statements last night, they were politically a huge error.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

- You believe the police knew he was innocent but arrested him anyway? You know this how? Link?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.They know he's innocent because they saw him, they were there, and all he did was yell stuff from his porch (according to their own written reports). A cop knows that a disorderly conduct charge for porch-yelling will not stick.

- Handcuffed man shouts 'You are going to pay for this' and that is not inciteful or threatening? Wow.

- Handcuffed man shouts 'You are going to pay for this' and you say that a reasonable person would think 'negative press release' or possibly a 'civil lawsuit'? Come on now.

Of course. What else could it possibly mean? An old fellow with a sleight build tells armed police officers that they'll regret arresting him, and you think it means he's going to bust out some ninja kung fu moves on them?

Even if everything you say is true, I'm still curious how any of this means the cop is a racist.

As I've said several times in this thread, I've never claimed that the cop is a racist, and the whole racial element of the situation doesn't really interest me.

 

[avoiding injuries]

If the police's vesion of events is true, do you think the outcome would have been different if it was a white man?

I dont think the situation would have occured the way it did if it were a white man.

Yes it would. It just wouldn't be a national story.If a cop came to my house, and I acted the way it is reported that Gates acted, I would fully expect to be taken into custody. However, I don't have a chip on my shoulder and would have complied with every request the officer made and acted in a civil matter. It's not rocket science here and shouldn't be made it to be more than it was.

 

[Bowbiejuke]

OBAMA SPEAKS

President Obama today stood by his comments that the Cambridge, Mass., police department acted "stupidly" in its arrest of Henry Louis Gates, telling ABC News that the Harvard University professor should not have been arrested.

Share

President says he doesn't regret his criticism of Cambridge police department.

"I have to say I am surprised by the controversy surrounding my statement, because I think it was a pretty straightforward commentary that you probably don't need to handcuff a guy, a middle-aged man who uses a cane, who's in his own home," Obama said.

In an exclusive interview with ABC's Terry Moran to air on "Nightline" tonight, Obama said it doesn't make sense to him that the situation escalated to the point that Gates was arrested.

"I think that I have extraordinary respect for the difficulties of the job that police officers do," the president told Moran. "And my suspicion is that words were exchanged between the police officer and Mr. Gates and that everybody should have just settled down and cooler heads should have prevailed. That's my suspicion."

The president said he understands the sergeant who arrested Gates is an "outstanding police officer." But he added that with all that's going on in the country with health care and the economy and the wars abroad, "it doesn't make sense to arrest a guy in his own home if he's not causing a serious disturbance."

Watch "Nightline" Tonight at 11:35 p.m. ET for Terry Moran's full interview with President Obama

Sgt. James Crowley, who arrested Gates for disorderly conduct, and his union slammed the president today for his comments about the incident at Gates' house last week.

Obama "was dead wrong to malign this police officer specifically and the department in general," Alan McDonald, the lawyer for the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association, told ABC News today.

Obama Speaks

 

[Bowbiejuke]

OBAMA SPEAKS

President Obama today stood by his comments that the Cambridge, Mass., police department acted "stupidly" in its arrest of Henry Louis Gates, telling ABC News that the Harvard University professor should not have been arrested.

Share

President says he doesn't regret his criticism of Cambridge police department.

"I have to say I am surprised by the controversy surrounding my statement, because I think it was a pretty straightforward commentary that you probably don't need to handcuff a guy, a middle-aged man who uses a cane, who's in his own home," Obama said.

In an exclusive interview with ABC's Terry Moran to air on "Nightline" tonight, Obama said it doesn't make sense to him that the situation escalated to the point that Gates was arrested.

"I think that I have extraordinary respect for the difficulties of the job that police officers do," the president told Moran. "And my suspicion is that words were exchanged between the police officer and Mr. Gates and that everybody should have just settled down and cooler heads should have prevailed. That's my suspicion."

The president said he understands the sergeant who arrested Gates is an "outstanding police officer." But he added that with all that's going on in the country with health care and the economy and the wars abroad, "it doesn't make sense to arrest a guy in his own home if he's not causing a serious disturbance."

Watch "Nightline" Tonight at 11:35 p.m. ET for Terry Moran's full interview with President Obama

Sgt. James Crowley, who arrested Gates for disorderly conduct, and his union slammed the president today for his comments about the incident at Gates' house last week.

Obama "was dead wrong to malign this police officer specifically and the department in general," Alan McDonald, the lawyer for the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association, told ABC News today.

Obama Speaks

I am not trying to be a smart***, and my dislike for Obama is known, but what the heck does The Healthcare, The Economy, or Wars have to do with this.

 

[SofaKings]

OBAMA SPEAKS

President Obama today stood by his comments that the Cambridge, Mass., police department acted "stupidly" in its arrest of Henry Louis Gates, telling ABC News that the Harvard University professor should not have been arrested.

Share

President says he doesn't regret his criticism of Cambridge police department.

"I have to say I am surprised by the controversy surrounding my statement, because I think it was a pretty straightforward commentary that you probably don't need to handcuff a guy, a middle-aged man who uses a cane, who's in his own home," Obama said.

In an exclusive interview with ABC's Terry Moran to air on "Nightline" tonight, Obama said it doesn't make sense to him that the situation escalated to the point that Gates was arrested.

"I think that I have extraordinary respect for the difficulties of the job that police officers do," the president told Moran. "And my suspicion is that words were exchanged between the police officer and Mr. Gates and that everybody should have just settled down and cooler heads should have prevailed. That's my suspicion."

The president said he understands the sergeant who arrested Gates is an "outstanding police officer." But he added that with all that's going on in the country with health care and the economy and the wars abroad, "it doesn't make sense to arrest a guy in his own home if he's not causing a serious disturbance."

Watch "Nightline" Tonight at 11:35 p.m. ET for Terry Moran's full interview with President Obama

Sgt. James Crowley, who arrested Gates for disorderly conduct, and his union slammed the president today for his comments about the incident at Gates' house last week.

Obama "was dead wrong to malign this police officer specifically and the department in general," Alan McDonald, the lawyer for the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association, told ABC News today.

Obama Speaks

Seriously WTF???

But he added that with all that's going on in the country with health care and the economy and the wars abroad, "it doesn't make sense to arrest a guy in his own home if he's not causing a serious disturbance."

Sorry Obama that the spotlight was taken from you for a few moments.

 

[Nigel]

OBAMA SPEAKS

President Obama today stood by his comments that the Cambridge, Mass., police department acted "stupidly" in its arrest of Henry Louis Gates, telling ABC News that the Harvard University professor should not have been arrested.

Share

President says he doesn't regret his criticism of Cambridge police department.

"I have to say I am surprised by the controversy surrounding my statement, because I think it was a pretty straightforward commentary that you probably don't need to handcuff a guy, a middle-aged man who uses a cane, who's in his own home," Obama said.

In an exclusive interview with ABC's Terry Moran to air on "Nightline" tonight, Obama said it doesn't make sense to him that the situation escalated to the point that Gates was arrested.

"I think that I have extraordinary respect for the difficulties of the job that police officers do," the president told Moran. "And my suspicion is that words were exchanged between the police officer and Mr. Gates and that everybody should have just settled down and cooler heads should have prevailed. That's my suspicion."

The president said he understands the sergeant who arrested Gates is an "outstanding police officer." But he added that with all that's going on in the country with health care and the economy and the wars abroad, "it doesn't make sense to arrest a guy in his own home if he's not causing a serious disturbance."

Watch "Nightline" Tonight at 11:35 p.m. ET for Terry Moran's full interview with President Obama

Sgt. James Crowley, who arrested Gates for disorderly conduct, and his union slammed the president today for his comments about the incident at Gates' house last week.

Obama "was dead wrong to malign this police officer specifically and the department in general," Alan McDonald, the lawyer for the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association, told ABC News today.

Obama Speaks

I am not trying to be a smart***, and my dislike for Obama is known, but what the heck does The Healthcare, The Economy, or Wars have to do with this.

seriously, are cops supposed to weigh the overall state of the Union when deciding whether or not to collar a guy?