PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Obviously those witnesses are just jumping to conclusions since Tim doesn't have enough information to form a decision yet.
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Housing While Black (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Fennis
- Start date
djmich
Footballguy
Thorn
Footballguy
No. What most of us do is read up on things before forming an opinion. In some cases we conclude that the police are racist, and in other cases we don't. It depends on what actually happened.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I'm not doing your homework for you; you can go to Slate and read it for yourself. Just like in the Ted Kennedy thread, you're being a sanctimonious ### despite having very little idea of what you're talking about.
Nigel
Footballguy
Which reminds me of another point - when they got to the station, and Gates complained of being clostrophobic, they didn't put him in a cell like they would anyone else. They let him sit in a conference room.Obviously to beat him with in the station. Come on Nigel.Anyone else in the Boston area hear the cop interviewed on WEEI this morning? He came across very well - well spoken and obviously a smart guy. I have no doubt there was even a hint of racial motivation in this case. Gates picked a fight and the cop responded apropriately, and Gates himself denies very little of the cop's account.
A couple of things from the interview I had not heard before. At Gate's request, Crowley cuffed him with his hands in the front rather than behind. Rarely does this happen, but he did so to avoid physical discomfort for Gates. Then, after loading Gates into the cop car Crowley also went back into the house, at Gate's request, and fetched the Professor's cane for him. Do these sound like the actions of a cop motivated by race?
And for our President to pile on when admitting he didn't know the facts - is he trying to incite a riot? Unbelievably irresponsible.
Nigel
Footballguy
I highly recommend giving this a listen.
lots of Harvard professors on that show? I don't think Gates is anything like the people on Cops.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Dennis and Callahan doing good work (for once, lol).
Adebisi
Footballguy
A "minority" or "less than a quarter" is the same as "nobody" in your world? Interesting.
patrickmcgroin
Footballguy
This is never going to end. Any chance we could just have white cops arrest white people, black cops arrest black people, etc. ?
Nigel
Footballguy
I know I'm in the minority, but i'm a huge fan of their work in general.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
It's hard for us old white guys to identify with Gates in this situation. If it happened to me, I laugh, go get my ID and thank the officers for keeping a lookout on my property. Situation over unless the cop is really really stupid.
But I haven't spent a lifetime getting hassled just because of my skin color, either. It will be nice when African-Americans can feel the same kind of confidence in dealing with the police that I do.
But I haven't spent a lifetime getting hassled just because of my skin color, either. It will be nice when African-Americans can feel the same kind of confidence in dealing with the police that I do.
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
A lot of people mouthing off on that show.
Winston Wolfe
The Cleaner
Police Report
Here is a quote from Gates' statement through his lawyer
Here is a quote from Gates' statement through his lawyer
Something just doesn't make sense in the above statement.Here is a quote from an interview.
I have a problem reconciling the bolded parts above. It looked like a footprint was there. The lock was damaged so the door was forced open and the lock was permanently disfigured. Why would he think it was "ridiculous" that a police officer would investigate a reported B&E? He himself admits that the lock was disfigured and that the door was forced open.Someone is clearly NOT telling the truth. {edited because the officer is now speaking}
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timschochet
Footballguy
All right. There seems to be evidence from several sources that more than one eyewitness supports the police officer's story of what happened. This contradicts the Boston Herald's reporting on this matter, which quotes only one eyewitness who states that he should not have been arrested. Furthermore, Ivan reports that a Slate article, which I have not read, has Gates admitting that he was being a jerk, which again contracts the Herald. But I trust Ivan to report truthfully, despite his patronization of me. Therefore:
1. I apologize for making inflammatory comments about this story. Those comments were made based upon my understanding of what happened from what I have read. My current understanding is that Gates indeed did react badly to being asked for an ID, and really was a jerk about it. This means that most likely racism was not involved in his arrest. I still don't think, from what I know, that it was wise for the policeman to arrest him. What Obama said about this last night, IMO, was correct.
2. There may be more information that will come out that will change my mind again. If so, I will state it. I think EVERYONE ought to be willing to change their mind on issues like these, one way or the other, based on new evidence.
3. I still believe that in a majority of cases, Blacks' perception of negative treatment by police is justified. I also believe that many of you here came into this situation with a predetermined desire to believe the police were right, and that you would have continued to do so even if the evidence had contradicted you. Of course, it's also true that there are some out there who have a predetermined desire to believe the police were wrong, and will continue to do so if the evidence seems to have contradicted them. But I try not to be one of them.
1. I apologize for making inflammatory comments about this story. Those comments were made based upon my understanding of what happened from what I have read. My current understanding is that Gates indeed did react badly to being asked for an ID, and really was a jerk about it. This means that most likely racism was not involved in his arrest. I still don't think, from what I know, that it was wise for the policeman to arrest him. What Obama said about this last night, IMO, was correct.
2. There may be more information that will come out that will change my mind again. If so, I will state it. I think EVERYONE ought to be willing to change their mind on issues like these, one way or the other, based on new evidence.
3. I still believe that in a majority of cases, Blacks' perception of negative treatment by police is justified. I also believe that many of you here came into this situation with a predetermined desire to believe the police were right, and that you would have continued to do so even if the evidence had contradicted you. Of course, it's also true that there are some out there who have a predetermined desire to believe the police were wrong, and will continue to do so if the evidence seems to have contradicted them. But I try not to be one of them.
timschochet
Footballguy
I want to amend one thing that I wrote. There is the very real possibility here that had Gates been a white man mouthing off at the police, he would have been given a ticket or simply warned rather than arrested. Since I still don't get exactly why he was arrested, I believe that racism could have played a part here. And I also recognize that most African-Americans are going to perceive this as the reason.
Adebisi
Footballguy
Please, please tell me he did not go on the Dennis & Callahan Show...Anyone else in the Boston area hear the cop interviewed on WEEI this morning? He came across very well - well spoken and obviously a smart guy. I have no doubt there was even a hint of racial motivation in this case. Gates picked a fight and the cop responded apropriately, and Gates himself denies very little of the cop's account. A couple of things from the interview I had not heard before. At Gate's request, Crowley cuffed him with his hands in the front rather than behind. Rarely does this happen, but he did so to avoid physical discomfort for Gates. Then, after loading Gates into the cop car Crowley also went back into the house, at Gate's request, and fetched the Professor's cane for him. Do these sound like the actions of a cop motivated by race?And for our President to pile on when admitting he didn't know the facts - is he trying to incite a riot? Unbelievably irresponsible.
Nigel
Footballguy
Tim, at lunchtime today, go downtown and find a cop. Then start yelling at him, in front of other cops and civilians, and be sure to insult his mother. Then when he warns you to stop, keep going! And call him a racist!
Nigel
Footballguy
Yup, listen to it - great interview.Please, please tell me he did not go on the Dennis & Callahan Show...Anyone else in the Boston area hear the cop interviewed on WEEI this morning? He came across very well - well spoken and obviously a smart guy. I have no doubt there was even a hint of racial motivation in this case. Gates picked a fight and the cop responded apropriately, and Gates himself denies very little of the cop's account. A couple of things from the interview I had not heard before. At Gate's request, Crowley cuffed him with his hands in the front rather than behind. Rarely does this happen, but he did so to avoid physical discomfort for Gates. Then, after loading Gates into the cop car Crowley also went back into the house, at Gate's request, and fetched the Professor's cane for him. Do these sound like the actions of a cop motivated by race?And for our President to pile on when admitting he didn't know the facts - is he trying to incite a riot? Unbelievably irresponsible.
timschochet
Footballguy
No thanks. But even if I did, I really believe that unless I physically attacked him, he would write me a ticket and that would be the end of it.Tim, at lunchtime today, go downtown and find a cop. Then start yelling at him, in front of other cops and civilians, and be sure to insult his mother. Then when he warns you to stop, keep going! And call him a racist!
WVU Alum
Footballguy
This is not a case of profiling. This is a case of a black professor who finally gets to be a victim. He said as much when he claimed he now knows what all young black men go through. Just an FYI, I have been arrested. It was not because I was white, it was because I mouthed off to a cop that was just trying to do his job. Too bad the cop was white or I could have made it about reverse discimination, had his do-gooder ### put on administrative leave, made a big deal of it in the media, sued the county for boatloads. Who cares if I ruin the life of that police officer... I'm rich now and can do whatever the hell I want.
thesurfshop19
Footballguy
Well said.
There's no question that -- as the facts currently stand -- Gates overreacted and that was certainly contributory to his arrest. That said, it's easy for us who have never had to deal with racist profiling on a day to day basis to put on a happy face every time we're approached by cops -- and not so easy for those who have seen it first hand their whole life. 
Poppa
Footballguy
I've seen this numerous times in this thread. Is this really illegal as posters imply - or have I been away too long...?
Nigel
Footballguy
You could (or more likely, would) be arrested for disorderly conduct, guilty of the bolded below:A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally:No thanks. But even if I did, I really believe that unless I physically attacked him, he would write me a ticket and that would be the end of it.Tim, at lunchtime today, go downtown and find a cop. Then start yelling at him, in front of other cops and civilians, and be sure to insult his mother. Then when he warns you to stop, keep going! And call him a racist!
(1) engages in fighting or in tumultuous conduct;
(2) makes unreasonable noise and continues to do so after being asked to stop; or
(3) disrupts a lawful assembly of persons
timschochet
Footballguy
Obama said he did not know if racism was involved or not, but that it was stupid for the police to arrest this man in his own home. I think this comment was absolutely reasonable (much more so than my own previous comments) and I agree with him. I don't think he's being irresponsible at all.And for our President to pile on when admitting he didn't know the facts - is he trying to incite a riot? Unbelievably irresponsible.
igbomb
Footballguy
My thoughts on this (not that everyone cares):
Many, many cops are a-holes who like to bust people's balls just because they can. Doesn't really sound like that happened in this situation, but I wasn't there.
Many, many cops are racist (similar to every other profession in this country), though I have no idea if that was the case here.
Many, many cops are just guys doing their jobs. That may have been the case here, though I wasn't there and can't speak definitively.
Anyone speaking in absolutes in this thread about what went down is full of crap. Tim, in particular, is coming across as extremely obnoxious and condescending. Par for the course.
This whole thing is a total non-issue. I'm glad this guy is smart and accomplished and all, and I hope he imparts a great deal of knowledge and insight into legions of people throughout the country, but there is no way it should be a national story.
Many, many cops are a-holes who like to bust people's balls just because they can. Doesn't really sound like that happened in this situation, but I wasn't there.
Many, many cops are racist (similar to every other profession in this country), though I have no idea if that was the case here.
Many, many cops are just guys doing their jobs. That may have been the case here, though I wasn't there and can't speak definitively.
Anyone speaking in absolutes in this thread about what went down is full of crap. Tim, in particular, is coming across as extremely obnoxious and condescending. Par for the course.
This whole thing is a total non-issue. I'm glad this guy is smart and accomplished and all, and I hope he imparts a great deal of knowledge and insight into legions of people throughout the country, but there is no way it should be a national story.
Harry Manback
Footballguy
Should we really be making prejudice assumptions about Harvard professors? Or are prejudices OK if they are positive ones?
http://www.slate.com/id/2223379/
mytagid = Math.floor( Math.random() * 100 );document.write("
Gates repeatedly requested the arresting officer's name and badge number. Gates says the officer provided neither, although the officer claims that he did, in fact, state his name. Was the officer required to provide this information?
Yes. Massachusetts law requires police officers to carry identification cards and present them upon request. Officers are also required to wear a "badge, tag, or label" with their name and/or identifying number. The law is aimed at precisely the situation in question—suspects who feel their rights are being violated. Few other states impose this requirement on their officers as a matter of law, but many individual police departments, such as the New York Police Department, have adopted it (PDF) as a matter of policy.
Gates initially refused to emerge from his home and provide identification. Was he required to?
No. There's nothing to stop an officer from requesting your presence on the front porch or asking you questions, but he cannot force you to identify yourself or come out of your house without probable cause. (The rules are different for drivers and immigrants, who are required to provide identification upon request.) If you don't feel like chatting, ask the officer whether you are free to go about your business. If he answers no, you are being detained, which means the officer must acknowledge and abide by your full menu of civil rights, including the famous Miranda warnings.
The arresting officer alleges that Gates shouted at him and threatened to speak to his "mama." He then arrested Gates for disorderly conduct. What, exactly, is disorderly conduct?
Behavior that might cause a riot. Massachusetts courts have limited the definition of disorderly conduct to: fighting or threatening, violent or tumultuous behavior, or creating a hazardous or physically offensive condition for no legitimate purpose other than to cause public annoyance or alarm. (The statute, however, just says "idle and disorderly persons," a formulation that is, on its own, patently unconstitutional.) Violators may be imprisoned for up to six months, fined a maximum of $200, or both.
The stilted language in the Gates police report is intended to mirror the courts' awkward phrasing, but the state could never make the charge stick. The law is aimed not at mere irascibility but rather at unruly behavior likely to set off wider unrest. Accordingly, the behavior must take place in public or on private property where people tend to gather. While the police allege that a crowd had formed outside Gates' property, it is rare to see a disorderly conduct conviction for behavior on the suspect's own front porch. In addition, political speech is excluded from the statute because of the First Amendment. Alleging racial bias, as Gates was doing, and protesting arrest both represent core political speech.*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();
mytagid = Math.floor( Math.random() * 100 );document.write("
Gates repeatedly requested the arresting officer's name and badge number. Gates says the officer provided neither, although the officer claims that he did, in fact, state his name. Was the officer required to provide this information?
Yes. Massachusetts law requires police officers to carry identification cards and present them upon request. Officers are also required to wear a "badge, tag, or label" with their name and/or identifying number. The law is aimed at precisely the situation in question—suspects who feel their rights are being violated. Few other states impose this requirement on their officers as a matter of law, but many individual police departments, such as the New York Police Department, have adopted it (PDF) as a matter of policy.
Gates initially refused to emerge from his home and provide identification. Was he required to?
No. There's nothing to stop an officer from requesting your presence on the front porch or asking you questions, but he cannot force you to identify yourself or come out of your house without probable cause. (The rules are different for drivers and immigrants, who are required to provide identification upon request.) If you don't feel like chatting, ask the officer whether you are free to go about your business. If he answers no, you are being detained, which means the officer must acknowledge and abide by your full menu of civil rights, including the famous Miranda warnings.
The arresting officer alleges that Gates shouted at him and threatened to speak to his "mama." He then arrested Gates for disorderly conduct. What, exactly, is disorderly conduct?
Behavior that might cause a riot. Massachusetts courts have limited the definition of disorderly conduct to: fighting or threatening, violent or tumultuous behavior, or creating a hazardous or physically offensive condition for no legitimate purpose other than to cause public annoyance or alarm. (The statute, however, just says "idle and disorderly persons," a formulation that is, on its own, patently unconstitutional.) Violators may be imprisoned for up to six months, fined a maximum of $200, or both.
The stilted language in the Gates police report is intended to mirror the courts' awkward phrasing, but the state could never make the charge stick. The law is aimed not at mere irascibility but rather at unruly behavior likely to set off wider unrest. Accordingly, the behavior must take place in public or on private property where people tend to gather. While the police allege that a crowd had formed outside Gates' property, it is rare to see a disorderly conduct conviction for behavior on the suspect's own front porch. In addition, political speech is excluded from the statute because of the First Amendment. Alleging racial bias, as Gates was doing, and protesting arrest both represent core political speech.*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();
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Harry Manback
Footballguy
Seems you are implying that Harvard professors wouldn't act that way, or wouldn't often be on cops, presumably because they are Harvard professors.
have you seen the show Cops?Seems you are implying that Harvard professors wouldn't act that way, or wouldn't often be on cops, presumably because they are Harvard professors.
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timschochet
Footballguy
I understand the law says that and has to say it. A guy in his own home or in front of his own home should, IMO, be a very different standard of "unreasonable noise" than a guy in a public street causing a ruckus. Makes no sense to me.You could (or more likely, would) be arrested for disorderly conduct, guilty of the bolded below:A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally:No thanks. But even if I did, I really believe that unless I physically attacked him, he would write me a ticket and that would be the end of it.Tim, at lunchtime today, go downtown and find a cop. Then start yelling at him, in front of other cops and civilians, and be sure to insult his mother. Then when he warns you to stop, keep going! And call him a racist!
(1) engages in fighting or in tumultuous conduct;
(2) makes unreasonable noise and continues to do so after being asked to stop; or
(3) disrupts a lawful assembly of persons
southeastjerome
Footballguy
The WEEI interview with Crowley this morning was pretty good. I don't understand the 6 pages that show Mr. Gates was in the wrong here. The cop came to his house on a possible break in call. He sees the guy, said his first impression was that he did not look suspicious. As any cop would do his job, he asked Mr. Gates if anyone else was in the house. He refused to answer. Crowley asked Mr. Gates for ID, to which he says no and say, let me see YOUR ID. If Mr. Gates had just shown his ID, this would have been a nothing story. Instead he has to pop off at the mouth and do the "do you know who I am routine". What an ####. Anyone that's ever been to Cambridge knows that there are some sketchy folks there and also some pretty mentally unstable people there. What is the cop supposed to think when the guy is refusing obviously easy tasks?
I had a similar situation happen to me. I climbed in the window of my house, a cop came by and asked the same questions Crowley asked Gates. I showed him my ID, he confirmed I was the owner. Asked if he could just look around the house (in case someone did break in that I did not know of), did a spin around the house, said thanks and was on his way. If Gates had just did this, I am sure it would have turned out the exact same way.
What raised the flags for Crowley here was not the color of Gates' skin, but the behavior Gates displayed.
I had a similar situation happen to me. I climbed in the window of my house, a cop came by and asked the same questions Crowley asked Gates. I showed him my ID, he confirmed I was the owner. Asked if he could just look around the house (in case someone did break in that I did not know of), did a spin around the house, said thanks and was on his way. If Gates had just did this, I am sure it would have turned out the exact same way.
What raised the flags for Crowley here was not the color of Gates' skin, but the behavior Gates displayed.
djmich
Footballguy
I was expecting Gates side of the story to be a little bit better than this, I don't think this helps his cause.
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Harry Manback
Footballguy
Yea, I was just being difficult.have you seen the show Cops?Seems you are implying that Harvard professors wouldn't act that way, or wouldn't often be on cops, presumably because they are Harvard professors.
timschochet
Footballguy
Thanks for linking that, Aaron. Here is the full article, it makes for interesting reading because it completely contradicts what many people have been saying here:
The Root: We’ve all seen the police and media reports around your arrest last Thursday in Cambridge, Mass., Charles Ogletree issued a statement to The Root that included a synopsis of the incident. But what have you been going through since Thursday?
Henry Louis Gates Jr.: I’m outraged. I can’t believe that an individual policeman on the Cambridge police force would treat any African-American male this way, and I am astonished that this happened to me; and more importantly I’m astonished that it could happen to any citizen of the United States, no matter what their race. And I’m deeply resolved to do and say the right things so that this cannot happen again.
Of course, it will happen again, but … I want to do what I can so that every police officer will think twice before engaging in this kind of behavior.
TR: Can you describe, in your own words, what went on in and outside of your home? When did you suspect you were the victim of racial profiling?
HLG: I just finished making my new documentary series for PBS called “Faces of America.” It was a glorious week in Shanghai and Ningbo and Beijing, and on my trip, I took my daughter along. After we finished working in Ningbo we went to Beijing and had three glorious days as tourists. It was great fun.
We flew back on a direct flight from Beijing to Newark. We arrived on Wednesday, and on Thursday I flew back to Cambridge. I was using my regular driver and my regular car service. And went to my home arriving at about 12:30 in the afternoon. My driver and I carried several bags up to the porch, and we fiddled with the door and it was jammed. I thought, well, maybe the door’s latched. So I walked back to the kitchen porch, unlocked the door and came into the house. And I unlatched the door, but it was still jammed.
My driver is a large black man. But from afar you and I would not have seen he was black. He has black hair and was dressed in a two-piece black suit, and I was dressed in a navy blue blazer with gray trousers and, you know, my shoes. And I love that the 911 report said that two big black men were trying to break in with backpacks on. Now that is the worst racial profiling I’ve ever heard of in my life. (Laughs.) I’m not exactly a big black man. I thought that was hilarious when I found that out, which was yesterday.
It looked like someone’s footprint was there. So it’s possible that the door had been jimmied, that someone had tried to get in while I was in China. But for whatever reason, the lock was damaged. My driver hit the door with his shoulder and the door popped open. But the lock was permanently disfigured. My home is owned by Harvard University, and so any kind of repair work that’s needed, Harvard will come and do it. I called this person, and she was, in fact, on the line while all of this was going on.
I’m saying ‘You need to send someone to fix my lock.’ All of a sudden, there was a policeman on my porch. And I thought, ‘This is strange.’ So I went over to the front porch still holding the phone, and I said ‘Officer, can I help you?’ And he said, ‘Would you step outside onto the porch.’ And the way he said it, I knew he wasn’t canvassing for the police benevolent association. All the hairs stood up on the back of my neck, and I realized that I was in danger. And I said to him no, out of instinct. I said, ‘No, I will not.’
My lawyers later told me that that was a good move and had I walked out onto the porch he could have arrested me for breaking and entering. He said ‘I’m here to investigate a 911 call for breaking and entering into this house.’ And I said ‘That’s ridiculous because this happens to be my house. And I’m a Harvard professor.’ He says ‘Can you prove that you’re a Harvard professor?’ I said yes, I turned and closed the front door to the kitchen where I’d left my wallet, and I got out my Harvard ID and my Massachusetts driver’s license which includes my address and I handed them to him. And he’s sitting there looking at them.
Now it’s clear that he had a narrative in his head: A black man was inside someone’s house, probably a white person’s house, and this black man had broken and entered, and this black man was me.
So he’s looking at my ID, he asked me another question, which I refused to answer. And I said I want your name and your badge number because I want to file a complaint because of the way he had treated me at the front door. He didn’t say, ‘Excuse me, sir, is there a disturbance here, is this your house?’—he demanded that I step out on the porch, and I don’t think he would have done that if I was a white person.
But at that point, I realized that I was in danger. And so I said to him that I want your name, and I want your badge number and I said it repeatedly.
TR: How did this escalate? What are the laws in Cambridge that govern this kind of interaction? Did you ever think you were in the wrong?
HLG: The police report says I was engaged in loud and tumultuous behavior. That’s a joke. Because I have a severe bronchial infection which I contracted in China and for which I was treated and have a doctor’s report from the Peninsula hotel in Beijing. So I couldn’t have yelled. I can’t yell even today, I’m not fully cured.
It escalated as follows: I kept saying to him, ‘What is your name, and what is your badge number?’ and he refused to respond. I asked him three times, and he refused to respond. And then I said, ‘You’re not responding because I’m a black man, and you’re a white officer.’ That’s what I said. He didn’t say anything. He turned his back to me and turned back to the porch. And I followed him. I kept saying, “I want your name, and I want your badge number.”
It looked like an ocean of police had gathered on my front porch. There were probably half a dozen police officers at this point. The mistake I made was I stepped onto the front porch and asked one of his colleagues for his name and badge number. And when I did, the same officer said, ‘Thank you for accommodating our request. You are under arrest.’ And he handcuffed me right there. It was outrageous. My hands were behind my back I said, ‘I’m handicapped. I walk with a cane. I can’t walk to the squad car like this.’ There was a huddle among the officers; there was a black man among them. They removed the cuffs from the back and put them around the front.
A crowd had gathered, and as they were handcuffing me and walking me out to the car, I said, ‘Is this how you treat a black man in America?’
TR: What was the jail experience like? Was it humiliating?
HLG: By the time I was processed at the Cambridge jail, I was booked, fingerprinted, given a mug shot and answered questions. Outrageous is the only word that I can use. The system attempts to humiliate you. They took my belt; they took my wallet, they took my keys, some change; they counted my money. And I knew that because they said, ‘We’re going to release you upon your own recognizance, and the fine is $40, and we know you can pay it because we went through your wallet.’
It’s meant to be terrifying and humiliating. And I couldn’t believe that this was happening to me. And I said I can’t wait to get out, I am eager to talk to my lawyer, and they said they had to book me first. Then I was told that Charles Ogletree was in the building, and that he was there with three other Harvard professors—my friends Evelyn Brooks Higginbotham, Larry Bobo and Marcelina Lee Morgan.
I was in jail for four hours. I told them that I was claustrophobic, that I couldn’t be in this cell. And a very nice police officer said here are some of your friends and I could talk to them one at a time in the interview room until the magistrate came and signed the form allowing me to leave. I was there just between 1:00 p.m. and 5:15 p.m., which is an interminable amount of time. I spent the rest of the time in another room, slightly bigger, and my friends just had to sit there and wait. And it was kind of like a Senate filibuster; we had to tell stories in the prison cell.
TR: How has this resonated within the academic community at Harvard? I know that Larry Bobo and Charles Ogletree, also black men, have expressed dismay. President Barack Obama has talked about how difficult it is to hail a cab, even as an elected official. Is there an irony to your notoriety and the incident?
HLG: There is such a level of outrage that’s been expressed to me. I’ve received thousands of e-mails and Facebook messages; the blogs are going crazy; my colleagues at Harvard are outraged. Allen Counter called me from the Nobel Institute in Stockholm to express his outrage. But really it’s not about me—it’s that anybody black can be treated this way, just arbitrarily arrested out of spite. And the man who arrested me did it out of spite, because he knew I was going to file a report because of his behavior.
He didn’t follow proper police procedure! You can’t just presume I’m guilty and arrest me. He’s supposed to ask me if I need help. He just presumed that I was guilty, and he presumed that I was guilty because I was black. There was no doubt about that.
TR: What do you make of the suspicious neighbor who called the police with an erroneous report of “two black men” trying to enter your apartment? Was this neighborhood watch gone wrong? [/B]
HLG: I don’t know this person, and I’m sure that she thought she was doing the right thing. If I was on Martha’s Vineyard like I am now and someone was trying to break into my house, I would hope that someone called the police and that they would respond. But I would hope that the police wouldn’t arrest the first black man that they saw—especially after that person gives them an ID—and not rely on some trumped-up charge, which is what this man was doing.
TR: The charges have been dropped. What are your plans for legal action against the city of Cambridge, its police department or the individual officer?
HLG: I’ll be meeting with my legal team, and we will be deciding what kind of legal action I should take. I haven’t made the decision yet. But I am determined that this experience, my experience, as horrendous as it was and as outrageous as it was, be used for the larger good of the black community. There are 1 million black men in the prison system, and on Thursday I became one of them. I would sooner have believed the sky was going to fall from the heavens than I would have believed this could happen to me. It shouldn’t have happened to me, and it shouldn’t happen to anyone.
As a college professor, I want to make this a teaching experience. I am going to devote my considerable resources, intellectual and otherwise, to making sure this doesn’t happen again. I’m thinking about making a documentary film about racial profiling, and I’m in talks with PBS about that.
TR: Does this put to rest the idea that America is post-racial?
HLG: I thought the whole idea that America was post-racial and post-black was laughable from the beginning. There is no more important event in the history of black people in America than the election of Barack Obama. I cried when he was elected, and I cried at his inauguration, but that does not change the percentage of black men in prison, the percentage of black men harassed by racial profiling. It does not change the number of black children living near the poverty line. Which is almost a similar percentage as were under poverty when Martin Luther King was assassinated.
There haven’t been fundamental structural changes in America. There’s been a very important symbolic change and that is the election of Barack Obama. But the only black people who truly live in a post-racial world in America all live in a very nice house on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
The Root: We’ve all seen the police and media reports around your arrest last Thursday in Cambridge, Mass., Charles Ogletree issued a statement to The Root that included a synopsis of the incident. But what have you been going through since Thursday?
Henry Louis Gates Jr.: I’m outraged. I can’t believe that an individual policeman on the Cambridge police force would treat any African-American male this way, and I am astonished that this happened to me; and more importantly I’m astonished that it could happen to any citizen of the United States, no matter what their race. And I’m deeply resolved to do and say the right things so that this cannot happen again.
Of course, it will happen again, but … I want to do what I can so that every police officer will think twice before engaging in this kind of behavior.
TR: Can you describe, in your own words, what went on in and outside of your home? When did you suspect you were the victim of racial profiling?
HLG: I just finished making my new documentary series for PBS called “Faces of America.” It was a glorious week in Shanghai and Ningbo and Beijing, and on my trip, I took my daughter along. After we finished working in Ningbo we went to Beijing and had three glorious days as tourists. It was great fun.
We flew back on a direct flight from Beijing to Newark. We arrived on Wednesday, and on Thursday I flew back to Cambridge. I was using my regular driver and my regular car service. And went to my home arriving at about 12:30 in the afternoon. My driver and I carried several bags up to the porch, and we fiddled with the door and it was jammed. I thought, well, maybe the door’s latched. So I walked back to the kitchen porch, unlocked the door and came into the house. And I unlatched the door, but it was still jammed.
My driver is a large black man. But from afar you and I would not have seen he was black. He has black hair and was dressed in a two-piece black suit, and I was dressed in a navy blue blazer with gray trousers and, you know, my shoes. And I love that the 911 report said that two big black men were trying to break in with backpacks on. Now that is the worst racial profiling I’ve ever heard of in my life. (Laughs.) I’m not exactly a big black man. I thought that was hilarious when I found that out, which was yesterday.
It looked like someone’s footprint was there. So it’s possible that the door had been jimmied, that someone had tried to get in while I was in China. But for whatever reason, the lock was damaged. My driver hit the door with his shoulder and the door popped open. But the lock was permanently disfigured. My home is owned by Harvard University, and so any kind of repair work that’s needed, Harvard will come and do it. I called this person, and she was, in fact, on the line while all of this was going on.
I’m saying ‘You need to send someone to fix my lock.’ All of a sudden, there was a policeman on my porch. And I thought, ‘This is strange.’ So I went over to the front porch still holding the phone, and I said ‘Officer, can I help you?’ And he said, ‘Would you step outside onto the porch.’ And the way he said it, I knew he wasn’t canvassing for the police benevolent association. All the hairs stood up on the back of my neck, and I realized that I was in danger. And I said to him no, out of instinct. I said, ‘No, I will not.’
My lawyers later told me that that was a good move and had I walked out onto the porch he could have arrested me for breaking and entering. He said ‘I’m here to investigate a 911 call for breaking and entering into this house.’ And I said ‘That’s ridiculous because this happens to be my house. And I’m a Harvard professor.’ He says ‘Can you prove that you’re a Harvard professor?’ I said yes, I turned and closed the front door to the kitchen where I’d left my wallet, and I got out my Harvard ID and my Massachusetts driver’s license which includes my address and I handed them to him. And he’s sitting there looking at them.
Now it’s clear that he had a narrative in his head: A black man was inside someone’s house, probably a white person’s house, and this black man had broken and entered, and this black man was me.
So he’s looking at my ID, he asked me another question, which I refused to answer. And I said I want your name and your badge number because I want to file a complaint because of the way he had treated me at the front door. He didn’t say, ‘Excuse me, sir, is there a disturbance here, is this your house?’—he demanded that I step out on the porch, and I don’t think he would have done that if I was a white person.
But at that point, I realized that I was in danger. And so I said to him that I want your name, and I want your badge number and I said it repeatedly.
TR: How did this escalate? What are the laws in Cambridge that govern this kind of interaction? Did you ever think you were in the wrong?
HLG: The police report says I was engaged in loud and tumultuous behavior. That’s a joke. Because I have a severe bronchial infection which I contracted in China and for which I was treated and have a doctor’s report from the Peninsula hotel in Beijing. So I couldn’t have yelled. I can’t yell even today, I’m not fully cured.
It escalated as follows: I kept saying to him, ‘What is your name, and what is your badge number?’ and he refused to respond. I asked him three times, and he refused to respond. And then I said, ‘You’re not responding because I’m a black man, and you’re a white officer.’ That’s what I said. He didn’t say anything. He turned his back to me and turned back to the porch. And I followed him. I kept saying, “I want your name, and I want your badge number.”
It looked like an ocean of police had gathered on my front porch. There were probably half a dozen police officers at this point. The mistake I made was I stepped onto the front porch and asked one of his colleagues for his name and badge number. And when I did, the same officer said, ‘Thank you for accommodating our request. You are under arrest.’ And he handcuffed me right there. It was outrageous. My hands were behind my back I said, ‘I’m handicapped. I walk with a cane. I can’t walk to the squad car like this.’ There was a huddle among the officers; there was a black man among them. They removed the cuffs from the back and put them around the front.
A crowd had gathered, and as they were handcuffing me and walking me out to the car, I said, ‘Is this how you treat a black man in America?’
TR: What was the jail experience like? Was it humiliating?
HLG: By the time I was processed at the Cambridge jail, I was booked, fingerprinted, given a mug shot and answered questions. Outrageous is the only word that I can use. The system attempts to humiliate you. They took my belt; they took my wallet, they took my keys, some change; they counted my money. And I knew that because they said, ‘We’re going to release you upon your own recognizance, and the fine is $40, and we know you can pay it because we went through your wallet.’
It’s meant to be terrifying and humiliating. And I couldn’t believe that this was happening to me. And I said I can’t wait to get out, I am eager to talk to my lawyer, and they said they had to book me first. Then I was told that Charles Ogletree was in the building, and that he was there with three other Harvard professors—my friends Evelyn Brooks Higginbotham, Larry Bobo and Marcelina Lee Morgan.
I was in jail for four hours. I told them that I was claustrophobic, that I couldn’t be in this cell. And a very nice police officer said here are some of your friends and I could talk to them one at a time in the interview room until the magistrate came and signed the form allowing me to leave. I was there just between 1:00 p.m. and 5:15 p.m., which is an interminable amount of time. I spent the rest of the time in another room, slightly bigger, and my friends just had to sit there and wait. And it was kind of like a Senate filibuster; we had to tell stories in the prison cell.
TR: How has this resonated within the academic community at Harvard? I know that Larry Bobo and Charles Ogletree, also black men, have expressed dismay. President Barack Obama has talked about how difficult it is to hail a cab, even as an elected official. Is there an irony to your notoriety and the incident?
HLG: There is such a level of outrage that’s been expressed to me. I’ve received thousands of e-mails and Facebook messages; the blogs are going crazy; my colleagues at Harvard are outraged. Allen Counter called me from the Nobel Institute in Stockholm to express his outrage. But really it’s not about me—it’s that anybody black can be treated this way, just arbitrarily arrested out of spite. And the man who arrested me did it out of spite, because he knew I was going to file a report because of his behavior.
He didn’t follow proper police procedure! You can’t just presume I’m guilty and arrest me. He’s supposed to ask me if I need help. He just presumed that I was guilty, and he presumed that I was guilty because I was black. There was no doubt about that.
TR: What do you make of the suspicious neighbor who called the police with an erroneous report of “two black men” trying to enter your apartment? Was this neighborhood watch gone wrong? [/B]
HLG: I don’t know this person, and I’m sure that she thought she was doing the right thing. If I was on Martha’s Vineyard like I am now and someone was trying to break into my house, I would hope that someone called the police and that they would respond. But I would hope that the police wouldn’t arrest the first black man that they saw—especially after that person gives them an ID—and not rely on some trumped-up charge, which is what this man was doing.
TR: The charges have been dropped. What are your plans for legal action against the city of Cambridge, its police department or the individual officer?
HLG: I’ll be meeting with my legal team, and we will be deciding what kind of legal action I should take. I haven’t made the decision yet. But I am determined that this experience, my experience, as horrendous as it was and as outrageous as it was, be used for the larger good of the black community. There are 1 million black men in the prison system, and on Thursday I became one of them. I would sooner have believed the sky was going to fall from the heavens than I would have believed this could happen to me. It shouldn’t have happened to me, and it shouldn’t happen to anyone.
As a college professor, I want to make this a teaching experience. I am going to devote my considerable resources, intellectual and otherwise, to making sure this doesn’t happen again. I’m thinking about making a documentary film about racial profiling, and I’m in talks with PBS about that.
TR: Does this put to rest the idea that America is post-racial?
HLG: I thought the whole idea that America was post-racial and post-black was laughable from the beginning. There is no more important event in the history of black people in America than the election of Barack Obama. I cried when he was elected, and I cried at his inauguration, but that does not change the percentage of black men in prison, the percentage of black men harassed by racial profiling. It does not change the number of black children living near the poverty line. Which is almost a similar percentage as were under poverty when Martin Luther King was assassinated.
There haven’t been fundamental structural changes in America. There’s been a very important symbolic change and that is the election of Barack Obama. But the only black people who truly live in a post-racial world in America all live in a very nice house on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Oh, so he arrested him out of spite. Not racism. That I could buy. Why are we talking about race?
Incredible.Professor Gates doesn't seem to understand why he was arrested. He was arrested for disorderly conduct, not breaking and entering - Sgt. Crawford isn't "presuming" anything, at least no more than any other cop has that has arrested anyone, black, white, or otherwise, for disorderly conduct.
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igbomb
Footballguy
So this guy is complaining that the jail experience is meant to intimidate because they clear your pockets and record what you were carrying? And then he complains that he is claustrophobic so he shouldn't have to sit in the small cell?
As I said above, I have no clue who was right or wrong on this, but Gates comes across as a real elitist jerk in this interview.
timschochet
Footballguy
Do you have a link to his own direct quotes after the incident which contradict this interview?As for my argument, I already made it. Obviously, somebody is not telling the truth here. It bothers me a little bit in Gates' interview that he is being a little bit vague in his description of his original conversation with the policeman, and that makes me wonder. However, if Gates is essentially telling the truth, then what I originally wrote about this situation is correct: it's a blatant and typical case of police racism against an African American. If the other witnesses and the police can be relied on, then Gates went overboard, and it's probably not a case of racism, though it still makes no sense to me why he was arrested.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
This is actually the first thing I thought of when I read the facts to this story.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
You really don't get why shouting at an officer, accusing him of being a racist, and insulting his mother might get you arrested for disorderly conduct?
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Gates has already said he's considering making a "documentary" on this.
sho nuff
Footballguy
I will have to find them...but the ones I recall are him admitting he refused to produce ID right away...then asking for the Officer's ID who also refused (a mistake IMO by the cop)...and that is when Gates started with the, you won't show me because Im black talk.Most of the witness accounts I have read corroborate the officer's report and not Gates'.It seemed more like he was looking to race bait them and got what he wanted when they arrested him...eventhough, despite your post, there is not one shred of evidence suggesting the police acted out of any racism against an African American.It appears much more so that it was blatant race baiting by Gates.
