Housing While Black (1 Viewer)

[Christo]

the only counter in this thread so far seems to be Christo using the "you're wrong" argument

Yeah, that's all I've done.

 

[Harry Manback]

the only counter in this thread so far seems to be Christo using the "you're wrong" argument

Yeah, that's all I've done.

I gotta agree with Christo here*.*oh my god, what have I done

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

the only counter in this thread so far seems to be Christo using the "you're wrong" argument

Yeah, that's all I've done.

hahaI probably missed some great stuff you posted. My bad. I was under the impression that you felt the arrest was justified b/c you believe disturbing the peace is part of what's included under the definition of disorderly conduct and that someone's porch = public.I'm just trying to get a sense of the situation from the legal minds in this thread and found it interesting that people who I assume to have no legal training are the ones who primarily keep taking personal shots at MT and keep calling him or his viewpoint ignorant.

 

[Harry Manback]

the only counter in this thread so far seems to be Christo using the "you're wrong" argument

Yeah, that's all I've done.

hahaI probably missed some great stuff you posted. My bad. I was under the impression that you felt the arrest was justified b/c you believe disturbing the peace is part of what's included under the definition of disorderly conduct and that someone's porch = public.I'm just trying to get a sense of the situation from the legal minds in this thread and found it interesting that people who I assume to have no legal training are the ones who primarily keep taking personal shots at MT and keep calling him or his viewpoint ignorant.

personal shots? who?

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

personal shots? who?

didn't you say you were laughing at his ignorance earlier? or that you lost a ton of respect for him b/c of his posts in here?

 

[Quadrax]

I read a piece with the same title on cnn.com today. I agree 100% with you. What a disgrace. Gates is awesome and one of the best scholars of our time.

pretty funny to go back and read the first few pages of spew....

 

[Pat Patriot]

See, I'm missing the bold part. Noise extends beyond his property, right? So if his loud shouting could be heard beyond his property, which seems obvious, then why does it matter if the loud shouting started on his property? What am I missing MT?

Nobody complained about the noise. The only person the noise seemed to bother was the cop, who was on Gates' property.And that's secondary anyway. If noise were the problem, the correct charge would be disturbing the peace. For disorderly conduct to be the appropriate charge, not only would the noise have to bother his neighbors, but it would have to consist of fighting words.

Hi MT, Thanks for the clarification. But again, I have to question the bold. I mean, what is the definition of fighting words? I'm assuming that Gates wasn't yelling recipes to the cops from his porch, right?

ETA - I'm pretty sure I saw that he yelled something about the cops paying for or regretting what they were doing. Aren't those fighting words?

I guess my issue with your angle, which I respect, is that I WANT the cops to error on the side of hauling someone downtown who is verbally "assaulting" them. I think that's the safe thing to do and I think that they should, and often do, go to that "extreme" in all parts of the country with all different combinations of race of suspect and race of cop. That's the way it should be. And then, when the suspect calms down, the "charges" are dropped and he/she goes home. I believe that acting in this manner makes our communities safer for everyone, because when people lose either respect or fear of the police, bad things can happen.

So I don't care what was legal. I think the cop did the right thing and would have done the same thing if I was doing what Gates did.

FINALLY!! This type of arrest happens all the time. And these charges get dropped ALL THE TIME. No matter how much Tim wants to read into and make judgements upon the fact that the charges were dropped. I got mine dropped because I knew the Clerk of Courts. Not quite as good as knowing the President but it got the job done.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Maurile has been COMPLETELY ignorant in this thread.

how so? b/c he thinks Gates didn't actually break a law or that he wasn't guilty of disorderly conduct? seems to be plenty of legal support for that position. the charges were dropped after all.the only counter in this thread so far seems to be Christo using the "you're wrong" argument and others saying "cops do it all the time".even Ditkaless Wonders seemed to concede that the disorderly conduct charge may have been a mistake.

Because MT's view is not based on anything resembling reality. His whole argument comes from a book and is not consistent at all with application of the law in Massachusetts and likely all over the country. If a police officer is called to the scene and you do not obey his instructions and become belligerent and continue to be belligerent after receiving multiple warnings, you are going to jail. I would argue almost 100% of the time. MT is arguing Theory. Christo and others (myself included) are discussing real life situations. Tim is just out in left field. Why he insists on making a big deal about the fact that the "disorderly conduct" occurred on his front porch is beyond me.

 

[timschochet]

MT is arguing Theory. Christo and others (myself included) are discussing real life situations. Tim is just out in left field. Why he insists on making a big deal about the fact that the "disorderly conduct" occurred on his front porch is beyond me.

Christo is the one arguing theory. I have read dozens of experts who believe this arrest was ridiculous. Lawrence O' Donnell took it apart on TV tonight, to list one example. You may disagree with me, that's fine. But there's a lot of people out there in left field with me.

 

[identikit]

MT is arguing Theory. Christo and others (myself included) are discussing real life situations. Tim is just out in left field. Why he insists on making a big deal about the fact that the "disorderly conduct" occurred on his front porch is beyond me.

Christo is the one arguing theory. I have read dozens of experts who believe this arrest was ridiculous. Lawrence O' Donnell took it apart on TV tonight, to list one example. You may disagree with me, that's fine. But there's a lot of people out there in left field with me.

O' Donnell = Tool of the first degree

 

[Pat Patriot]

MT is arguing Theory. Christo and others (myself included) are discussing real life situations. Tim is just out in left field. Why he insists on making a big deal about the fact that the "disorderly conduct" occurred on his front porch is beyond me.

Christo is the one arguing theory. I have read dozens of experts who believe this arrest was ridiculous. Lawrence O' Donnell took it apart on TV tonight, to list one example. You may disagree with me, that's fine. But there's a lot of people out there in left field with me.

Experts? Experts on what? The LAW? The law is formed based on practical application by the police force. People keep talking about how a good lawyer could get the charges thrown out in two seconds. Disorderly conduct is not a prosecuted offense. It is a misdemeanor. If you have connections you get the charges dropped (and I am talking about low level connections, knowing the clerk, bailiff or basically anyone who works for the court). If you dont have connections, you pay the fine. It is that simple.If a cop thinks you are being disruptive to his doing his job, he can and will arrest you. You are living in a dream world where you can say ANYTHING you want to a cop because of your 1st ammendment rights and have no repercussions. That world doesnt exist. Nor should it in my opinion.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

This type of arrest happens all the time.

Of course it does.Also, bikes get stolen all the time. That means you should take precautions to lock up your bike; but it doesn't make stealing bikes legal.Similarly, you shouldn't yell insults at cops. But if you do, and you get arrested for it, that doesn't make the arrest legal. Even if it happens all the time.

Because MT's view is not based on anything resembling reality. His whole argument comes from a book and is not consistent at all with application of the law in Massachusetts and likely all over the country.

Laws are published in books. Specifically, judicial opinions are published in books. If there's a discrepancy between what the judges say and what the cops do, it's not because the cops are right and the judges are wrong. Legally, it's the other way around.

 

[Harry Manback]

personal shots? who?

didn't you say you were laughing at his ignorance earlier? or that you lost a ton of respect for him b/c of his posts in here?

oh that's a personal shot?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

If a cop thinks you are being disruptive to his doing his job, he can and will arrest you.

If a gangster thinks you are disrespecting him, he can and will pop a cap in your rear.That doesn't make it legal.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

personal shots? who?

didn't you say you were laughing at his ignorance earlier? or that you lost a ton of respect for him b/c of his posts in here?

oh that's a personal shot?

seemed pretty excessive. if his arguments were so "weak" and "ignorant" (in your words), they should be easily disputed, no? why would anyone lose a "ton of respect" for someone for simply arguing a point that a misdemeanor arrest for disorderly conduct was not legal?

 

[Pat Patriot]

This type of arrest happens all the time.

Of course they do.Also, bikes get stolen all the time. That means you should take precautions to lock up your bike; but it doesn't make stealing bikes legal.

Similarly, you shouldn't yell insults at cops. But if you do, and you get arrested, that doesn't make the arrest legal. Even if it happens all the time.

Because MT's view is not based on anything resembling reality. His whole argument comes from a book and is not consistent at all with application of the law in Massachusetts and likely all over the country.

Laws are published in books. Specifically, judicial opinions are published in books. If there's a discrepancy between what the judges say and what the cops do, it's not because the cops are right and the judges are wrong. Legally, it's the other way around.

The fact that the enforcer of the Law, the police force, is interpreting the law in one way to make such an arrest legal, makes it de facto legal. The Law is written in such a way to allow the police force leeway to allow for their interpretation. Until someone challenges the law and has it written such that the interpretation is narrowed, it will continue to be against the law to act like an asse hole to a cop. And yes it is even illegal on your front porch.

 

[Harry Manback]

personal shots? who?

didn't you say you were laughing at his ignorance earlier? or that you lost a ton of respect for him b/c of his posts in here?

oh that's a personal shot?

seemed pretty excessive. if his arguments were so "weak" and "ignorant" (in your words), they should be easily disputed, no? why would anyone lose a "ton of respect" for someone for simply arguing a point that a misdemeanor arrest for disorderly conduct was not legal?

Yeesh, sorry I'll tone it back.My apologies MT, didn't mean to attack you.I think Christo's done a fine job of proving Gates was tumultuous, which is what was stated when he was arrested from the very beginning.MT has yet to address that, keeps saying he is disorderly.He has blinders on, not his fault, probably has them rightfully so, I just hoped someone so smart would be able to see through them.Maybe disappointed would be a better term.

 

[Pat Patriot]

If a cop thinks you are being disruptive to his doing his job, he can and will arrest you.

If a gangster thinks you are disrespecting him, he can and will pop a cap in your rear.That doesn't make it legal.

1. A gangster is not charged with interpreting the law and enforcing it.2. Murder is against the law. Funny but the police are allowed to arrest people who break the law, in their interpretation of the law.

 

[Harry Manback]

If a cop thinks you are being disruptive to his doing his job, he can and will arrest you.

If a gangster thinks you are disrespecting him, he can and will pop a cap in your rear.That doesn't make it legal.

1. A gangster is not charged with interpreting the law and enforcing it.2. Murder is against the law. Funny but the police are allowed to arrest people who break the law, in their interpretation of the law.

To be fair, we aren't lawyers (maybe you are?) we are just going off of personal experiences having lived in MA. Maybe we should have cried afoul and made national news over our run ins.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Until someone challenges the law and has it written such that the interpretation is narrowed, it will continue to be against the law to act like an asse hole to a cop.

This has already happened. See the case I linked to a while back.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Funny but the police are allowed to arrest people who break the law, in their the courts' interpretation of the law.

Fixed.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Look, to cut through all this: Gates lost his temper and yelled at the cop. He probably shouldn't have done it, but his attitude was based on years of racism. So I excuse his overreaction.

Crowley, in turn, lost his temper and arrested Gates. He probably shouldn't have done it, though Christo and others can come up with legal reasoning, when stretched to what I consider to be extreme limits, that would justify it. Even so, while I think it's clearly wrong, I don't really blame Crowley for arresting him. So I excuse his overreaction as well.

Finally, Obama was extremely unwise for even commenting on this issue.

You had me up until the Obama claim.I just wish he would remind the cops who they work for.

GG, it was not his role to comment here. But then, I'm not even sure why he was asked the question in the first place. I'm betting that if the President had been white, a question about a local arrest would never have been asked at a national press conference.

Tim, is your head firmly in the sand or what? THE QUESTION WAS PLANTED BY OBAMA. He was prepared for the question. It was his decision to have this question included. Lynn Sweet is from Chicago, she was asking the question for a reason. The problem for the President is that it backfired on him.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Until someone challenges the law and has it written such that the interpretation is narrowed, it will continue to be against the law to act like an asse hole to a cop.

This has already happened. See the case I linked to a while back.

Has there been a ruling? If so, evidently it has not reached the rank and file of the Massachusetts police force.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Funny but the police are allowed to arrest people who break the law, in their the courts' interpretation of the law.

Fixed.

Again, are you so naive as to the reality of the situation? If the police interpretation of a law related to a felony did not jibe with the courts and therefore, prosecutors were not getting convictions, the police would change their interpreation.

You assume the police are looking for convictions on disorderly conduct charges. They are not. Disorderly conduct is basically used as a deterrent. If citizens didnt believe you could be arrested for disorderly conduct, you could have a bunch of lunatics yelling and causing a disturbance like our friend Mr. Gates on a regular basis. It would make the job of the police exponentially more difficult if there wasnt a practical repercussion to citizens yelling, berating and basically being belligerent to the police. I dont see why you cant concede that point and instead remain the ivory tower trying to dissect and wordsmith the statute that discusses disorderly conduct.

The police have to assess situations and circumstances all the time. Disorderly conduct is essentially whatever the police say it is (to a reasonable degree usually decided by their leadership). You can be sure that Police Officers are trained in exactly how much #### they should and should not take.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

If the police interpretation of a law related to a felony did not jibe with the courts and therefore, prosecutors were not getting convictions, the police would change their interpreation.

Obviously not. (ETA: I just read that you said "felony" here. I thought you were still talking about disorderly conduct charges.)

You assume the police are looking for convictions on disorderly conduct charges. They are not. Disorderly conduct is basically used as a deterrent.

You just did a 180 from your previous sentence.Your previous sentence, unlike me, assumes that the police are looking for convictions on disorderly conduct charges.

My assumption is that the police are often just looking to do a little justice by punishing people for being dooshes. The way they punish dooshes is to take them down to the station for a while until the (unstickable) charges are dropped.

The thing is, though, it's not the cops' job to punish people. What they are doing is vigilante justice.

 

[Pat Patriot]

If the police interpretation of a law related to a felony did not jibe with the courts and therefore, prosecutors were not getting convictions, the police would change their interpreation.

Obviously not. (ETA: I just read that you said "felony" here. I thought you were still talking about disorderly conduct charges.)

You assume the police are looking for convictions on disorderly conduct charges. They are not. Disorderly conduct is basically used as a deterrent.

You just did a 180 from your previous sentence.Your previous sentence, unlike me, assumes that the police are looking for convictions on disorderly conduct charges.

My assumption is that the police are often just looking to do a little justice by punishing people for being dooshes. The way they punish dooshes is to take them down to the station for a while until the (unstickable) charges are dropped.

The thing is, though, it's not the cops' job to punish people. What they are doing is vigilante justice.

The reality is that what you call vigilante justice is a big part of how the police regulate the behavior of the public. Most people understand how you are supposed to behave in your interaction with the police. For those that dont, the statute regarding Disorderly Conduct is on the books for them.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

If the police interpretation of a law related to a felony did not jibe with the courts and therefore, prosecutors were not getting convictions, the police would change their interpreation.

Obviously not. (ETA: I just read that you said "felony" here. I thought you were still talking about disorderly conduct charges.)

You assume the police are looking for convictions on disorderly conduct charges. They are not. Disorderly conduct is basically used as a deterrent.

You just did a 180 from your previous sentence.Your previous sentence, unlike me, assumes that the police are looking for convictions on disorderly conduct charges.

My assumption is that the police are often just looking to do a little justice by punishing people for being dooshes. The way they punish dooshes is to take them down to the station for a while until the (unstickable) charges are dropped.

The thing is, though, it's not the cops' job to punish people. What they are doing is vigilante justice.

The reality is that what you call vigilante justice is a big part of how the police regulate the behavior of the public. Most people understand how you are supposed to behave in your interaction with the police. For those that dont, the statute regarding Disorderly Conduct is on the books for them.

So you're in favor of a nanny state? Noted.

 

[timschochet]

Look, to cut through all this: Gates lost his temper and yelled at the cop. He probably shouldn't have done it, but his attitude was based on years of racism. So I excuse his overreaction.

Crowley, in turn, lost his temper and arrested Gates. He probably shouldn't have done it, though Christo and others can come up with legal reasoning, when stretched to what I consider to be extreme limits, that would justify it. Even so, while I think it's clearly wrong, I don't really blame Crowley for arresting him. So I excuse his overreaction as well.

Finally, Obama was extremely unwise for even commenting on this issue.

You had me up until the Obama claim.I just wish he would remind the cops who they work for.

GG, it was not his role to comment here. But then, I'm not even sure why he was asked the question in the first place. I'm betting that if the President had been white, a question about a local arrest would never have been asked at a national press conference.

Tim, is your head firmly in the sand or what? THE QUESTION WAS PLANTED BY OBAMA. He was prepared for the question. It was his decision to have this question included. Lynn Sweet is from Chicago, she was asking the question for a reason. The problem for the President is that it backfired on him.

He was prepared for it. It doesn't mean it was planted. What evidence do you have that it was planted? Is Lynn Sweet a friend of the President? I thought she was a conservative.

 

[timschochet]

My apologies MT, didn't mean to attack you.I think Christo's done a fine job of proving Gates was tumultuous, which is what was stated when he was arrested from the very beginning.MT has yet to address that, keeps saying he is disorderly.He has blinders on, not his fault, probably has them rightfully so, I just hoped someone so smart would be able to see through them.Maybe disappointed would be a better term.

How come I never get the "I disagree with you even though you're so smart" responses?All I ever get is "I disagree with you because you're a MORON!"

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

I can't believe that this thread is still ongoing.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Look, to cut through all this: Gates lost his temper and yelled at the cop. He probably shouldn't have done it, but his attitude was based on years of racism. So I excuse his overreaction.

Crowley, in turn, lost his temper and arrested Gates. He probably shouldn't have done it, though Christo and others can come up with legal reasoning, when stretched to what I consider to be extreme limits, that would justify it. Even so, while I think it's clearly wrong, I don't really blame Crowley for arresting him. So I excuse his overreaction as well.

Finally, Obama was extremely unwise for even commenting on this issue.

You had me up until the Obama claim.I just wish he would remind the cops who they work for.

GG, it was not his role to comment here. But then, I'm not even sure why he was asked the question in the first place. I'm betting that if the President had been white, a question about a local arrest would never have been asked at a national press conference.

Tim, is your head firmly in the sand or what? THE QUESTION WAS PLANTED BY OBAMA. He was prepared for the question. It was his decision to have this question included. Lynn Sweet is from Chicago, she was asking the question for a reason. The problem for the President is that it backfired on him.

He was prepared for it. It doesn't mean it was planted. What evidence do you have that it was planted? Is Lynn Sweet a friend of the President? I thought she was a conservative.

All of the questions in his press conferences are previewed. He has a list of people to call on and what question they are going to ask. I have seen multiple TV reports that this was a planted question. It was the last question for a reason.

 

[Pat Patriot]

The reality is that what you call vigilante justice is a big part of how the police regulate the behavior of the public. Most people understand how you are supposed to behave in your interaction with the police. For those that dont, the statute regarding Disorderly Conduct is on the books for them.

So you're in favor of a nanny state? Noted.

I am in favor of giving the police the discretion to arrest any jackass that cant control his/her behavior when dealing with the police.

 

[timschochet]

The reality is that what you call vigilante justice is a big part of how the police regulate the behavior of the public. Most people understand how you are supposed to behave in your interaction with the police. For those that dont, the statute regarding Disorderly Conduct is on the books for themI am in favor of giving the police the discretion to arrest any jackass that cant control his/her behavior when dealing with the police.

And now we're go squarely right back to the issue of racism, Pat. The problem is that African-Americans simply don't perceive the police in the same manner as you and I do. Too often they are victims of racist attitudes, certainly in their history and even now. I have never in my entire life been anything but respectful to police, and I have taught my daughters that police are our friends, there to protect us. But it's awfully easy for me as an upper middle class white person, living in a nice community, to have this attitude. If I were African-American, I'm sure my attitude would be quite different, and this is reflected both in Gates' response and the overwhelming response to his arrest by African-Americans.

 

[Short Corner]

This type of arrest happens all the time.

Of course it does.Also, bikes get stolen all the time. That means you should take precautions to lock up your bike; but it doesn't make stealing bikes legal.Similarly, you shouldn't yell insults at cops. But if you do, and you get arrested for it, that doesn't make the arrest legal. Even if it happens all the time.

And no one is going to feel sorry for your dumb ### if you don't lock your bike and it gets stolen.

 

[Gigantomachia]

Until someone challenges the law and has it written such that the interpretation is narrowed, it will continue to be against the law to act like an asse hole to a cop.

This has already happened. See the case I linked to a while back.

Has there been a ruling? If so, evidently it has not reached the rank and file of the Massachusetts police force.

Shocking.

 

[Reaper]

The reality is that what you call vigilante justice is a big part of how the police regulate the behavior of the public. Most people understand how you are supposed to behave in your interaction with the police. For those that dont, the statute regarding Disorderly Conduct is on the books for them

I am in favor of giving the police the discretion to arrest any jackass that cant control his/her behavior when dealing with the police.

And now we're go squarely right back to the issue of racism, Pat. The problem is that African-Americans simply don't perceive the police in the same manner as you and I do. Too often they are victims of racist attitudes, certainly in their history and even now. I have never in my entire life been anything but respectful to police, and I have taught my daughters that police are our friends, there to protect us. But it's awfully easy for me as an upper middle class white person, living in a nice community, to have this attitude. If I were African-American, I'm sure my attitude would be quite different, and this is reflected both in Gates' response and the overwhelming response to his arrest by African-Americans.

If I were Afro-American.... I would be even MORE cordial to an officer, if that's even possible.

When I get pulled over.. I put my hands on the steering wheel, shut up, listen and OBEY...

Hey, Police officers in general are a bit Uppity and ego driven, that's kinda part of the job... My cousin is a cop and yeah, he's a bit of an obnoxious #### to ALL people.

I got pulled over in NYC a month ago for making an illegal left which I had no idea about - the cop came running over to the car yelling "DON"T MOVE, DON'T GET OUT OF THE CAR".... He yelled a bunch of other things... If I were this professor, I guess I could have questioned his motives and yelled back - but, there is no way in hell I'm choosing that route... When you encounter a police officer you do everything in your power to get him on his way and avoid any reason for him to not like you - don't even look at him wrong...

"YES SIR.... THANK YOU SIR.... YES SIR".... It's as if this guy is your master...And that goes for whatever color or race you are - You Bow to the police and that is that.. They have an incredibly tough and stressful job and any call could be the next disaster - so, BOW and SHUT UP.

This whole thing is a bunch of BS IMO.... IMO, this professor is a racist and horrible for racial tensions and the opposite of what we need in this country and Obama is right behind him - a bunch of BS.

IMO....The Professor "Acted stupidly" and Obama "Acted stupidly".

 

[Gigantomachia]

If I were Afro-American.... I would be even MORE cordial to an officer, if that's even possible.When I get pulled over.. I put my hands on the steering wheel, shut up, listen and OBEY... "YES SIR.... THANK YOU SIR.... YES SIR".... It's as if this guy is your master...And that goes for whatever color or race you are - You Bow to the police and that is that.. They have an incredibly tough and stressful job and any call could be the next disaster - so, BOW and SHUT UP.

You are the disease, not the cure.Stand up for your rights people, #### the man. Just because some high school nerd went to a two year cop program and now carries a gun does not mean you have to kiss his ###. Quite the opposite acutally.

 

[3C's]

If I were Afro-American.... I would be even MORE cordial to an officer, if that's even possible.When I get pulled over.. I put my hands on the steering wheel, shut up, listen and OBEY... "YES SIR.... THANK YOU SIR.... YES SIR".... It's as if this guy is your master...And that goes for whatever color or race you are - You Bow to the police and that is that.. They have an incredibly tough and stressful job and any call could be the next disaster - so, BOW and SHUT UP.

You are the disease, not the cure.Stand up for your rights people, #### the man. Just because some high school nerd went to a two year cop program and now carries a gun does not mean you have to kiss his ###. Quite the opposite acutally.

Nice "profiling" you did there.

 

[Gigantomachia]

If I were Afro-American.... I would be even MORE cordial to an officer, if that's even possible.When I get pulled over.. I put my hands on the steering wheel, shut up, listen and OBEY... "YES SIR.... THANK YOU SIR.... YES SIR".... It's as if this guy is your master...And that goes for whatever color or race you are - You Bow to the police and that is that.. They have an incredibly tough and stressful job and any call could be the next disaster - so, BOW and SHUT UP.

You are the disease, not the cure.Stand up for your rights people, #### the man. Just because some high school nerd went to a two year cop program and now carries a gun does not mean you have to kiss his ###. Quite the opposite acutally.

Nice "profiling" you did there.

If by profiling you mean calling out people who are afraid to challenge cops when the cops are clearly in the wrong, then so be it.

 

[Parrothead]

If I were Afro-American.... I would be even MORE cordial to an officer, if that's even possible.

When I get pulled over.. I put my hands on the steering wheel, shut up, listen and OBEY...

"YES SIR.... THANK YOU SIR.... YES SIR".... It's as if this guy is your master...And that goes for whatever color or race you are - You Bow to the police and that is that.. They have an incredibly tough and stressful job and any call could be the next disaster - so, BOW and SHUT UP.

You are the disease, not the cure.Stand up for your rights people, #### the man. Just because some high school nerd went to a two year cop program and now carries a gun does not mean you have to kiss his ###. Quite the opposite acutally.

 

[Gigantomachia]

If I were Afro-American.... I would be even MORE cordial to an officer, if that's even possible.

When I get pulled over.. I put my hands on the steering wheel, shut up, listen and OBEY...

"YES SIR.... THANK YOU SIR.... YES SIR".... It's as if this guy is your master...And that goes for whatever color or race you are - You Bow to the police and that is that.. They have an incredibly tough and stressful job and any call could be the next disaster - so, BOW and SHUT UP.

You are the disease, not the cure.Stand up for your rights people, #### the man. Just because some high school nerd went to a two year cop program and now carries a gun does not mean you have to kiss his ###. Quite the opposite acutally.

Mooooooooo

 

[3C's]

If I were Afro-American.... I would be even MORE cordial to an officer, if that's even possible.When I get pulled over.. I put my hands on the steering wheel, shut up, listen and OBEY... "YES SIR.... THANK YOU SIR.... YES SIR".... It's as if this guy is your master...And that goes for whatever color or race you are - You Bow to the police and that is that.. They have an incredibly tough and stressful job and any call could be the next disaster - so, BOW and SHUT UP.

You are the disease, not the cure.Stand up for your rights people, #### the man. Just because some high school nerd went to a two year cop program and now carries a gun does not mean you have to kiss his ###. Quite the opposite acutally.

Nice "profiling" you did there.

If by profiling you mean calling out people who are afraid to challenge cops when the cops are clearly in the wrong, then so be it.

No, that's not it.

 

[Gigantomachia]

If I were Afro-American.... I would be even MORE cordial to an officer, if that's even possible.When I get pulled over.. I put my hands on the steering wheel, shut up, listen and OBEY... "YES SIR.... THANK YOU SIR.... YES SIR".... It's as if this guy is your master...And that goes for whatever color or race you are - You Bow to the police and that is that.. They have an incredibly tough and stressful job and any call could be the next disaster - so, BOW and SHUT UP.

You are the disease, not the cure.Stand up for your rights people, #### the man. Just because some high school nerd went to a two year cop program and now carries a gun does not mean you have to kiss his ###. Quite the opposite acutally.

Nice "profiling" you did there.

If by profiling you mean calling out people who are afraid to challenge cops when the cops are clearly in the wrong, then so be it.

No, that's not it.

What, is it some form of double secret profiling?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

The reality is that what you call vigilante justice is a big part of how the police regulate the behavior of the public. Most people understand how you are supposed to behave in your interaction with the police. For those that dont, the statute regarding Disorderly Conduct is on the books for themI am in favor of giving the police the discretion to arrest any jackass that cant control his/her behavior when dealing with the police.

And now we're go squarely right back to the issue of racism, Pat. The problem is that African-Americans simply don't perceive the police in the same manner as you and I do. Too often they are victims of racist attitudes, certainly in their history and even now. I have never in my entire life been anything but respectful to police, and I have taught my daughters that police are our friends, there to protect us. But it's awfully easy for me as an upper middle class white person, living in a nice community, to have this attitude. If I were African-American, I'm sure my attitude would be quite different, and this is reflected both in Gates' response and the overwhelming response to his arrest by African-Americans.

And that is why African-Americans will never be truly equal in this country. Because they live in the past. It's too bad. And it's sad that people like Jackson, Sharpton and now Gates perpetuate that mindset because it helps them become more known/important/rich. I wish the average American-American could see through that. Maybe they can and we just hear about those three bozos?

 

[PatsWillWin]

Gig -> Pace yourself a little GB, it's 845AM.

 

[Reaper]

If I were Afro-American.... I would be even MORE cordial to an officer, if that's even possible.

When I get pulled over.. I put my hands on the steering wheel, shut up, listen and OBEY...

"YES SIR.... THANK YOU SIR.... YES SIR".... It's as if this guy is your master...And that goes for whatever color or race you are - You Bow to the police and that is that.. They have an incredibly tough and stressful job and any call could be the next disaster - so, BOW and SHUT UP.

You are the disease, not the cure.Stand up for your rights people, #### the man. Just because some high school nerd went to a two year cop program and now carries a gun does not mean you have to kiss his ###. Quite the opposite acutally.

REALLY... Good luck with that.... I'll continue to bow in their presense and hope to keep any discourse with a police office to the minimum, allowing him to go on his way and do his best to help keep us all safe....

 

[Gigantomachia]

If I were Afro-American.... I would be even MORE cordial to an officer, if that's even possible.

When I get pulled over.. I put my hands on the steering wheel, shut up, listen and OBEY...

"YES SIR.... THANK YOU SIR.... YES SIR".... It's as if this guy is your master...And that goes for whatever color or race you are - You Bow to the police and that is that.. They have an incredibly tough and stressful job and any call could be the next disaster - so, BOW and SHUT UP.

You are the disease, not the cure.Stand up for your rights people, #### the man. Just because some high school nerd went to a two year cop program and now carries a gun does not mean you have to kiss his ###. Quite the opposite acutally.

REALLY... Good luck with that.... I'll continue to bow in their presense and hope to keep any discourse with a police office to the minimum, allowing him to go on his way and do his best to help keep us all safe....

I have had damn good luck with it. I only crack my window enough to hand them my id and car info, I don't respond to any questions. Sign the stupid ticket and challenge it in court, switch the court date, 9/10 times the cop doesn't show and the ticket gets thrown out.You get what you earn in this country, ain't that right?

 

[Harry Manback]

If I were Afro-American.... I would be even MORE cordial to an officer, if that's even possible.

When I get pulled over.. I put my hands on the steering wheel, shut up, listen and OBEY...

"YES SIR.... THANK YOU SIR.... YES SIR".... It's as if this guy is your master...And that goes for whatever color or race you are - You Bow to the police and that is that.. They have an incredibly tough and stressful job and any call could be the next disaster - so, BOW and SHUT UP.

You are the disease, not the cure.Stand up for your rights people, #### the man. Just because some high school nerd went to a two year cop program and now carries a gun does not mean you have to kiss his ###. Quite the opposite acutally.

REALLY... Good luck with that.... I'll continue to bow in their presense and hope to keep any discourse with a police office to the minimum, allowing him to go on his way and do his best to help keep us all safe....

I have had damn good luck with it. I only crack my window enough to hand them my id and car info, I don't respond to any questions. Sign the stupid ticket and challenge it in court, switch the court date, 9/10 times the cop doesn't show and the ticket gets thrown out.You get what you earn in this country, ain't that right?

You're a classy guy.

 

[3C's]

You are the disease, not the cure.

Stand up for your rights people, #### the man. Just because some high school nerd went to a two year cop program and now carries a gun does not mean you have to kiss his ###. Quite the opposite acutally.

Nice "profiling" you did there.

If by profiling you mean calling out people who are afraid to challenge cops when the cops are clearly in the wrong, then so be it.

No, that's not it.

What, is it some form of double secret profiling?

 

[Parrothead]

If I were Afro-American.... I would be even MORE cordial to an officer, if that's even possible.

When I get pulled over.. I put my hands on the steering wheel, shut up, listen and OBEY...

"YES SIR.... THANK YOU SIR.... YES SIR".... It's as if this guy is your master...And that goes for whatever color or race you are - You Bow to the police and that is that.. They have an incredibly tough and stressful job and any call could be the next disaster - so, BOW and SHUT UP.

You are the disease, not the cure.Stand up for your rights people, #### the man. Just because some high school nerd went to a two year cop program and now carries a gun does not mean you have to kiss his ###. Quite the opposite acutally.

REALLY... Good luck with that.... I'll continue to bow in their presense and hope to keep any discourse with a police office to the minimum, allowing him to go on his way and do his best to help keep us all safe....

I have had damn good luck with it. I only crack my window enough to hand them my id and car info, I don't respond to any questions. Sign the stupid ticket and challenge it in court, switch the court date, 9/10 times the cop doesn't show and the ticket gets thrown out.You get what you earn in this country, ain't that right?

Ahhh.. so you don't yell at cops, insult them, call them racist, or bring their mother into the conversation?