Parrothead
Footballguy
would have been funny to see this guy get mugged and yell for help to the police.. and they ignored him..
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Housing While Black (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Fennis
- Start date
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Another Anecdote
For a time I worked with a drug interdiction and abatement task force. There was a twelve-plex apartment owned by a black couple. Their 12 tenants were all african american. All were prior felons, none had jobs where payroll taxes were deducted. The building was the site of over 100 arrest for possession and sale of crack cocaine in one calendar year. The building had reports of shots fired coming from it on a weekly basis and was riddled with bullet holes. Eventually we began the forfeiture process after repeated attempts to work with the owners at removing these tenants failed. They felt they had no responsibility for their tenants behavior and were unwilling to consider that the cash rent they were recieving was proceeds from drug sales.
When I began the legal process the owners had a local african american minister of some standing come to my office on their behalf. His message to me was that the black community would not stand for me abusing these fine people with these allegations. He called be a racist. He demanded I cease and desist at the threat of making my racist behavior the subject of much public debate.
I explained to him that the owners of buildings on either side of the building in question were also black and that their properties were suffering from these activities, them being unable to retain good tenants, after all who wants to live in a shooting gallery. I explained that the children that had to pass the building on their way to school were black and that they should not have to dodge gunshots to get there. I then thanked him for his perspective but stated I would proceed with my assigned tasks and that he could do as he choose, but I would share the facts as they were, not as he hoped they were.
About this time with him getting quite heated he noticed the picture of my first wife behind my desk. She was a uniquely beautiful girl of mixed heritage but who he determined to be black. He cited that and then stated he was sorry he had called me a racist when clearly I was not. I asked him why I could not be a racist, but one who sublimated that to general horniness for a scorching hot woman. He was not amused.
The apartment building was eventually closed. The minister was eventually indicted for financial improprieties involving his congregants.
I also got charactured in a cartoon once with a swazstika on my jackboot (I wear loafers). That offended my parents and my surving grandparents at the time as my family lost several members in WWII.
Hateful allegations come with public service. Peoples passions over run their intelligence and their sense of decency, if indeed they have any. Given the rewards of public service I am often tempted to take the various offers I get to go into private practice. It is likely that I will do so yet.
For a time I worked with a drug interdiction and abatement task force. There was a twelve-plex apartment owned by a black couple. Their 12 tenants were all african american. All were prior felons, none had jobs where payroll taxes were deducted. The building was the site of over 100 arrest for possession and sale of crack cocaine in one calendar year. The building had reports of shots fired coming from it on a weekly basis and was riddled with bullet holes. Eventually we began the forfeiture process after repeated attempts to work with the owners at removing these tenants failed. They felt they had no responsibility for their tenants behavior and were unwilling to consider that the cash rent they were recieving was proceeds from drug sales.
When I began the legal process the owners had a local african american minister of some standing come to my office on their behalf. His message to me was that the black community would not stand for me abusing these fine people with these allegations. He called be a racist. He demanded I cease and desist at the threat of making my racist behavior the subject of much public debate.
I explained to him that the owners of buildings on either side of the building in question were also black and that their properties were suffering from these activities, them being unable to retain good tenants, after all who wants to live in a shooting gallery. I explained that the children that had to pass the building on their way to school were black and that they should not have to dodge gunshots to get there. I then thanked him for his perspective but stated I would proceed with my assigned tasks and that he could do as he choose, but I would share the facts as they were, not as he hoped they were.
About this time with him getting quite heated he noticed the picture of my first wife behind my desk. She was a uniquely beautiful girl of mixed heritage but who he determined to be black. He cited that and then stated he was sorry he had called me a racist when clearly I was not. I asked him why I could not be a racist, but one who sublimated that to general horniness for a scorching hot woman. He was not amused.
The apartment building was eventually closed. The minister was eventually indicted for financial improprieties involving his congregants.
I also got charactured in a cartoon once with a swazstika on my jackboot (I wear loafers). That offended my parents and my surving grandparents at the time as my family lost several members in WWII.
Hateful allegations come with public service. Peoples passions over run their intelligence and their sense of decency, if indeed they have any. Given the rewards of public service I am often tempted to take the various offers I get to go into private practice. It is likely that I will do so yet.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Mixed race women are more often than not extremely beautiful. This to me seems to be one of the best arguments for miscegenation. Well that the fact that anti-miscegenation is patently racist.
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
"When you're faced with an officer who is trying to do his job and get to the bottom of something, this is not the time to get in an argument with him."
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
TommyGilmore
Footballguy
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
This is really strange.
snitwitch
Footballguy
Not sure if it's been posted yet, but the beers for Beer Summit 2009 have been announced. Below are the selections and what I believe they say about the men who picked 'em:
Obama will be drinking Bud Light (either (a) trying for a downmarket, regular joe beer, to appear more like the "common man", or (b) is watching his waistline)
Gates has stated he likes Red Stripes (either (a) he doesn't drink much beer, or (b) is picking a beer that hails from the predominantly black country of Jamaica due to his political-racial beliefs)
Mr. Crowley prefers Blue Moon (trying to appear sophisticated by ordering a microbrew, yet failing to realize the only American witbier worth drinking is Allagash White)
Obama will be drinking Bud Light (either (a) trying for a downmarket, regular joe beer, to appear more like the "common man", or (b) is watching his waistline)
Gates has stated he likes Red Stripes (either (a) he doesn't drink much beer, or (b) is picking a beer that hails from the predominantly black country of Jamaica due to his political-racial beliefs)
Mr. Crowley prefers Blue Moon (trying to appear sophisticated by ordering a microbrew, yet failing to realize the only American witbier worth drinking is Allagash White)
snitwitch
Footballguy
the moops
Footballguy
Blue Moon is not a microbrew. It is made by Coors.It is decent enough though.People that drink Bud Light are people that 99% of the time i do not want to hang out with.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
Is it a prosecution if there is no prosecutor?
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
I'm pretty sure the state prosecutes in criminal cases. The prosecutor is just a representative of the state in cases that warrant having one.
timschochet
Footballguy
According to the police tapes, Crowley identifies that it's Gates, he further identifies that he lives there, and then he instructs the other cars to "keep coming".
Why? Why send for more cars at that point? The obvious answer is he's decided to arrest Gates for talking back to him, and he's decided this while still in the house. Personally, I believe he lured Gates out to his front porch so that he could have an excuse to arrest him for "disturbing the peace"- how bogus is that?
The more I learn about this case, the clearer it is to me that this was a wrongful arrest and an injustice. I have no idea if it was racial or not. But I think Crowley and the police department continue to owe Professor Gates a profound apology. I hope this happens during the meeting with Obama.
Why? Why send for more cars at that point? The obvious answer is he's decided to arrest Gates for talking back to him, and he's decided this while still in the house. Personally, I believe he lured Gates out to his front porch so that he could have an excuse to arrest him for "disturbing the peace"- how bogus is that?
The more I learn about this case, the clearer it is to me that this was a wrongful arrest and an injustice. I have no idea if it was racial or not. But I think Crowley and the police department continue to owe Professor Gates a profound apology. I hope this happens during the meeting with Obama.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
Let the African-American community continue to view the Police as the enemy and continue to be uncooperative at crime scenes and they will continue to get needlessly arrested. Not unlawfully but needlessly.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
You are an idiot. There are many witnesses that say that Crowley warned Gates many times. Even took his handcuffs out and showed them to Gates motioning that he didnt stop his tirade that he was going to be arrested. Why all the warnings if your intention is to arrest him the second he gets outside?You really are dense.
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
On the tape he said "he claims to live here" before he made the comment about keeping the cars coming. He hadn't identified him yet.
timschochet
Footballguy
Hey Pat, I hate to tell you, but African-Americans don't treat the police as the enemy because of some bad things that happened a long time ago. They treat the police as the enemy because that's what they often are, even now, even today!
timschochet
Footballguy
You don't need to call me names. If you disagree, explain why and we can have a conversation. As far as your points go, I think your witnesses are fellow policemen who are backing up Crowley after the fact.
Fennis
Footballguy
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
And I am telling you that if they maintain that attitude and continue to be uncooperative and impede investigations (that are even in their potential best interests) they will continue to end up on the short end of the law.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
And the MANY neighbors that were in the front of the house. Again, dont be so thick.
timschochet
Footballguy
I will look at it again, to see if this correct. Even if it is, it doesn't change things. I'm sure he strongly suspected that Gates was telling the truth and confirmed it by seeing his ID a second later. To ask for backup at that point makes no sense unless he had an arrest in the back of his mind.
timschochet
Footballguy
Can you link me to a neighbor who states that Crowley warned Gates several times to stop, outside, Gates refused, and then Gates was arrested? I have not seen this.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
You refuse to see what is right in front of you. Gates showed Crowley his COLLEGE ID. If a cop was investigating a break in at your parents house and you showed him your COLLEGE ID, do you think that would prove that you lived there? At that point he likely did suspect that Gates was the owner of the home but he needed to confirm it. That is why he radioed the Harvard Police. The Harvard Police validated that Gates lived there not his ID.
timschochet
Footballguy
I can see that. But why call for more cars?
timschochet
Footballguy
Pat, you have stated several times that, according to several witnesses, NOT JUST THE POLICE, Crowley warned Gates outside that if he did not stop, he would arrest him. You have stated that Crowley pointed at the handcuffs and said he would use them if Gates didn't stop. You have stated Crowley warned Gates several times, and he still wouldn't stop. And you have stated that all of this took place outside in front of several witnesses: neighbors, not police.
I can't find a report about these witnesses anywhere. Please provide me some report or article that contains this information. If it's true, it will change my opinion about this entire matter.
I can't find a report about these witnesses anywhere. Please provide me some report or article that contains this information. If it's true, it will change my opinion about this entire matter.
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KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
I can't take this anymore.
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
very
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...9072301073.html
I have seen Crowley's story in many newspapers (not just Boston's). He clearly states that Gates was outside the home when he warned him both verbally and by showing him the handcuffs. I have not seen any witness accounts contradict that part of the story. Have you? I have not seen Gates refute that part of the story. Have you?
The fact that Crowley says it happened this way and his fellow police back him up on a point that is so easily disputed because it was in public view, is good enough for me.
I have seen Crowley's story in many newspapers (not just Boston's). He clearly states that Gates was outside the home when he warned him both verbally and by showing him the handcuffs. I have not seen any witness accounts contradict that part of the story. Have you? I have not seen Gates refute that part of the story. Have you?
The fact that Crowley says it happened this way and his fellow police back him up on a point that is so easily disputed because it was in public view, is good enough for me.
djmich
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Then don't read it. Either facts justify your POV about this matter or they don't. It is my contention that an awful lot of people have been wrong about this case from the beginning. You may be one of them. But maybe Pat has info that will prove me wrong. If he does, rest assured I will admit it.
regarding the cop who was suspended for referring to Gates as a "banana eating jungle monkey", do people think he is representative of other members of the police force or was this more of an isolated incident? also, do you think someone like this is going to be fair and impartial when dealing with a Black person?
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timschochet
Footballguy
But that's not what you wrote. You wrote there were other witnesses that confirmed it. I can't find them; apparently you can't either. I have no idea if these witnesses outside of the police even existed.And Gates has contradicted this story. He has stated that he was not warned several times. He has stated that he went out on his front porch after Crowley asked him to do so, and at that point he was immediately arrested.
timschochet
Footballguy
Based on history, both past and recent, I would guess that he represents an sizeable minority. Not a majority, but not an isolated incident either.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
The story I read is that this guy is GONE. They took his gun and badge today. Good job in acting swiftly on this matter.There are certainly other offices that share his point of view but I would say they are in the minority. There is no way to know this for a fact because guys like this hide behind their racism and generally keep it underground. However, you are right. The racism is always just under the surface with guys like this and infect the way they do their jobs.There is always the chance that there can be abuses but with the media and video of everything these days, I feel it would be difficult to treat any race of people in a harmful way for long before you are exposed.
timschochet
Footballguy
I agree with you 100% except for the bolded. It remains far too easy for policemen to be racist if they want to be.
Professors, too.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
Tim, I searched for 5 minutes. Now I will ask you to show me stories where Gates says he was never warned and was arrested immediately after going outside. If all of the Police were lying, wouldnt some of the citizens have contradicted the police story at this point? I have seen none of that.
timschochet
Footballguy
What I'm saying is that I have a feeling there were no witnesses other than the police. If there were, surely some of them would have been interviewed by the press by now, right? I mean this is a very big story.As for Gates, please go to The Root. Com for his description of events, which contradicts the police report.
Mr. Retukes
Footballguy
It wouldn't have surprised me if the cop was an old school guy......but he was relatively young and had only been on the job for 2 years.Maybe the old school cops are just better at keeping their racist language to themselves?
timschochet
Footballguy
Here is the statement by Gates:
The police report says I was engaged in loud and tumultuous behavior. That’s a joke. Because I have a severe bronchial infection which I contracted in China and for which I was treated and have a doctor’s report from the Peninsula hotel in Beijing. So I couldn’t have yelled. I can’t yell even today, I’m not fully cured.
It escalated as follows: I kept saying to him, ‘What is your name, and what is your badge number?’ and he refused to respond. I asked him three times, and he refused to respond. And then I said, ‘You’re not responding because I’m a black man, and you’re a white officer.’ That’s what I said. He didn’t say anything. He turned his back to me and turned back to the porch. And I followed him. I kept saying, “I want your name, and I want your badge number.”
It looked like an ocean of police had gathered on my front porch. There were probably half a dozen police officers at this point. The mistake I made was I stepped onto the front porch and asked one of his colleagues for his name and badge number. And when I did, the same officer said, ‘Thank you for accommodating our request. You are under arrest.’ And he handcuffed me right there. It was outrageous. My hands were behind my back I said, ‘I’m handicapped. I walk with a cane. I can’t walk to the squad car like this.’ There was a huddle among the officers; there was a black man among them. They removed the cuffs from the back and put them around the front.
A crowd had gathered, and as they were handcuffing me and walking me out to the car, I said, ‘Is this how you treat a black man in America?’
Gates does note here that a crowd had gathered, but I make the assumption that they must have done so AFTER the arrest, since no one from that crowd, to the best of my knowledge, has ever come forward to back up either Gates' account or Crowley's account. Again, if I am wrong about this last, someone please link me to it. If I learned that witnesses backed up the police claiming that Gates was warned several times, that would change my opinion about the entire affair. But for now, I'm doubtful that this took place.
The police report says I was engaged in loud and tumultuous behavior. That’s a joke. Because I have a severe bronchial infection which I contracted in China and for which I was treated and have a doctor’s report from the Peninsula hotel in Beijing. So I couldn’t have yelled. I can’t yell even today, I’m not fully cured.
It escalated as follows: I kept saying to him, ‘What is your name, and what is your badge number?’ and he refused to respond. I asked him three times, and he refused to respond. And then I said, ‘You’re not responding because I’m a black man, and you’re a white officer.’ That’s what I said. He didn’t say anything. He turned his back to me and turned back to the porch. And I followed him. I kept saying, “I want your name, and I want your badge number.”
It looked like an ocean of police had gathered on my front porch. There were probably half a dozen police officers at this point. The mistake I made was I stepped onto the front porch and asked one of his colleagues for his name and badge number. And when I did, the same officer said, ‘Thank you for accommodating our request. You are under arrest.’ And he handcuffed me right there. It was outrageous. My hands were behind my back I said, ‘I’m handicapped. I walk with a cane. I can’t walk to the squad car like this.’ There was a huddle among the officers; there was a black man among them. They removed the cuffs from the back and put them around the front.
A crowd had gathered, and as they were handcuffing me and walking me out to the car, I said, ‘Is this how you treat a black man in America?’
Gates does note here that a crowd had gathered, but I make the assumption that they must have done so AFTER the arrest, since no one from that crowd, to the best of my knowledge, has ever come forward to back up either Gates' account or Crowley's account. Again, if I am wrong about this last, someone please link me to it. If I learned that witnesses backed up the police claiming that Gates was warned several times, that would change my opinion about the entire affair. But for now, I'm doubtful that this took place.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
I don't know about fair and impartial, but he certainly seems inefficient. Once you refer to someone as a jungle monkey, "banana eating" is redundant.
timschochet
Footballguy
The issue of Gates yelling remains an important point as well. Gates says he never yelled, was incapable of yelling, and claims he can prove it based on the fact that he was treated for a severe bronchial infection. Once again, the only witnesses to Crowley's assertion that Gates was yelling are other policemen who confirmed it after the fact. Earlier on in this thread, Pat Patriot and many other posters asserted that there were other witnesses to Gates yelling as well, but none of these have ever come forward, and I doubt at this point they even exist.
If Gates was not yelling, this destroy's Christo's argument about "disturbing the peace" which he attempted to repeat for several pages. It removes even the slightest justification for this arrest, and it proves about 90% of the posters in this thread completely wrong in their assumptions about this matter, along with most of right wing talk radio.
If Gates was not yelling, this destroy's Christo's argument about "disturbing the peace" which he attempted to repeat for several pages. It removes even the slightest justification for this arrest, and it proves about 90% of the posters in this thread completely wrong in their assumptions about this matter, along with most of right wing talk radio.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
He is one officer on scene at an unknown place but with visual evidence corroborative of a felony in progress, one located unknown person who refused his first lawful order and is argumentative, and one person as yet unlocated since his initial information involved two men. He has no present knowledge as to whether a crime is in fact in progress and he is facing multiple potentially armed suspects. You think he should go it alone?
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TexanFan02
Footballguy
Dude, there are pictures of him obviously yelling at the top of his lungs. That makes him a liar, and makes the cop's story more credible. For someone that seems to dedicate their life to this thread, I would think you'd at least have done a little research, or at least read the thread where this was discussed 20-30 pages ago.
you can tell this from a picture? really? I don't think it's possible.
