How do you guys feel about socialism? (1 Viewer)

[Manster]

I'm not gonna get to wordy here, or detailed, just kind of big picture, but I'd like to get some takes on the current socialist movement, vs. capitalism in our country....and I realize there's grey areas involved....ie, crony capitalism, democratic socialism,  globalism, Nationalism, etc......feel free to be as wordy, and detailed as you'd like.....I'm just more of a big picture guy...

My take is we need to follow the constitution as our forefathers intended, and do a better job of following the path of "All men are created equal"......if we blow it all up, and go down the path of socialism, then we've lost what this country was intended to be.

Are we too far down the path of socialism?  Are we holding onto a past that isn't the future? Does anyone believe we can truly get socialism right?.....cuz it doesn't have a good track record throughout history....i mean it always seems like a good idea, but humans are flawed, and corruptable......Can leadership emerge that isn't corrupted by big corporate sponsors?  Do you think that Soros' "open society" ideas are even doable?  Seems like a pipe dream to me.....humans tend to be tribal in nature.

Does any of this matter if you truly believe global warming is the most pressing issue?

 

[RCon]

I don't think socialism is incompatible with "All men are created equal".  I don't think the two concepts are related at all.  Can you unpack how you think one relates to the other?

 

[roadkill1292]

I'm opposed to state ownership of industry. The state is inherently incapable of managing an economy at all levels.

Yay heavily regulated capitalism with a strong safety net for our most vulnerable citizens! MAGA!

 

[wikkidpissah]

since what was meant by the word "socialism" 40-50 years ago has deep, essential differences with what is meant today but the modern brand is yolked with the emotional, reactive criteria of the old form, i feel perfectly comfortable avoiding this conversation until one side or the other comes up with a term for it that carries no stigma but its own

 

[Northern Voice]

I'm opposed to state ownership of industry. The state is inherently incapable of managing an economy at all levels.

What about redistribution of wealth in the form of just handing billions and billions of dollars to industry without any ownership. 

Socialism in terms of redistribution of wealth through government intervention is way past out of the barn. It's basically just differing viewpoints on whether it should go to big corporations (Trump/trickle down) or to individual people in the form of social and health programs (AOC/Canada). 

 

[Manster]

I don't think socialism is incompatible with "All men are created equal".  I don't think the two concepts are related at all.  Can you unpack how you think one relates to the other?

Well isn't utopian socialism the ultimate "all men are created equal"?

I'm actually ok with a bit of democratic socialism, which we already currently have.  And I would much prefer that all men were created equal in our society.  I also understand that some of these concepts can be fluid, and ever-changing......my main goal here is just to look at the bigger picture of where the main driving forces are taking us.

In a perfect world the rich would take care of the poor, and people wouldn't take advantage of the system.....we don't live in a perfect world.....I do believe in our constitution and it's original intent, even if our forefathers fell short in execution......i don't think Marxism is the answer, but I'm willing to listen, and be open to ideas.

 

[Insomniac]

George Orwell once wrote "“The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies "something not desirable"."  Conservatives in the US use the word socialism in the same way.  If you look at European Countries like the UK, France, Italy, Switzerland, Sweden etc they all have policies that when advocated in the US conservatives start screaming "SOCIALISM!!!".

 

[Manster]

since what was meant by the word "socialism" 40-50 years ago has deep, essential differences with what is meant today but the modern brand is yolked with the emotional, reactive criteria of the old form, i feel perfectly comfortable avoiding this conversation until one side or the other comes up with a term for it that carries no stigma but its own

That's understandable.....but, just like our country's checkered past, socialism/communism, whatever you choose to call it, has a checkered past.

At the end of the day, people are tribal by nature, and communism is a tough sell for me, based on that.......maybe the old guard needs to get with the times, but being leery of anything socialist is bred into us because "man is easily corruptable"

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Like most things in life, it’s okay in moderation. Helpful even, as long as you don’t go overboard.

 

[Manster]

George Orwell once wrote "“The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies "something not desirable"."  Conservatives in the US use the word socialism in the same way.  If you look at European Countries like the UK, France, Italy, Switzerland, Sweden etc they all have policies that when advocated in the US conservatives start screaming "SOCIALISM!!!".

Valid point.....it's hard to compare those countries to the US though.....smaller countries can get their people to buy in, and contribute easier than our country....I'm not saying it's impossible, but we are a different animal...

 

[wikkidpissah]

That's understandable.....but, just like our country's checkered past, socialism/communism, whatever you choose to call it, has a checkered past.

At the end of the day, people are tribal by nature, and communism is a tough sell for me, based on that.......maybe the old guard needs to get with the times, but being leery of anything socialist is bred into us because "man is easily corruptable"

no, socialism/communism is uncheckered - it's a wholly black board. no marxist/leninist system has not become totalitarian.

nor has it almost anything in common with a greater socialization of how democracies treat their citizenry except the word "social" and many propoganda engines know that if they keep that word in there they can brand the result socialism no matter how good the work and have entirely undeserved criteria dumped upon it. a previous thread in this forum spent reams of pages discussing it without ever defining the difference and we already have too much lip service posing as activity. no thank you -

 

[Manster]

I'm opposed to state ownership of industry. The state is inherently incapable of managing an economy at all levels.

Yay heavily regulated capitalism with a strong safety net for our most vulnerable citizens! MAGA!

I think this mindset would be most comparable to the Scandinavian models, no?

 

[Manster]

no, socialism/communism is uncheckered - it's a wholly black board. no marxist/leninist system has not become totalitarian.

nor has it almost anything in common with a greater socialization of how democracies treat their citizenry except the word "social" and many propoganda engines know that if they keep that word in there they can brand the result socialism and have entirely undeserved criteria dumped upon it. a previous thread in this forum spent reams of pages discussing it without ever defining the difference and we already have too much lip service posing as activity. no thank you -

You must be a hit at parties

 

[wikkidpissah]

You must be a hit at parties

if you lend me your Mr. Buzzword beer-hat, i'll be just fine

 

[Manster]

if you lend me your Mr. Buzzword beer-hat, i'll be just fine

How bout a flat bill cap that says woke on it?  

 

[wikkidpissah]

How bout a flat bill cap that says woke on it?  

ooh, a buzzword! whoda guessed?! bye -

 

[Manster]

ooh, a buzzword! whoda guessed?! bye -

How bout bye Felicia!  Haha

Is that a buzz phrase?  Hold on, I'll go ask Karen....

 

[joffer]

like it in certain cases and in moderation

hate it when its used as a boogeyman to scare voters