How do you handle illegal lineups? (1 Viewer)

[TedHead]

For the first time in the approximately 10 year history of a fairly big money redraft league with friends we had an owner set an illegal lineup/roster that was not caught in time to correct. Our basic league rules state that team will receive a zero.

That rule always seemed pretty straight forward until now because it's coming down to the wire for the playoffs and other owners are pissed that the enforcement of the illegal lineup policy resulted in an easy win for that team's opponent.

Do any of you have a creative solution for handling illegal lineups/rosters that we could adopt for future years that accomplish these two things:

1) the idiot with the illegal lineup/roster is penalized

2) the idiot's opponent for the week is not handed a "free" win

Thanks for your thoughts

EDITED - The offense was a person was on IR that should not have been, but was not a situation where the person was previously injured and was left there by accident. Situation arose because the owner took someone else off IR to start, which created an illegal roster so the owner put a healthy player on IR. Unfortunately the site does not prevent non-injured players from being put on IR.

 

[fsck_101]

What was the offense?

Last year I left a player on IR that wasn't on the official weekly injury report (he'd been there a couple of weeks). League rules say I should have received a zero. Commish let it slide for the first offense.

 

[Wobble]

For the first time in the approximately 10 year history of a fairly big money redraft league with friends we had an owner set an illegal lineup/roster that was not caught in time to correct. Our basic league rules state that person will receive a zero.

That rule always seemed pretty straight forward until now because it's coming down to the wire for the playoffs and other owners are pissed that the enforcement of the illegal lineup policy resulted in an easy win for that team's opponent.

Do any of you have a creative solution for handling illegal lineups/rosters that accomplished these two things:

1) the idiot with the illegal lineup/roster is penalized

2) the idiot's opponent for the week is not handed a "free" win

Thanks for you thoughts

Do you mean that the owner receives a zero for the particular player that caused the illegal lineup or that the entire team receives a total weekly socre of zero?

 

[TedHead]

Do you mean that the owner receives a zero for the particular player that caused the illegal lineup or that the entire team receives a total weekly socre of zero?

The team takes a zero.

 

[mozzy84]

The team takes a zero.

I would probably just say rules are rules for this year and then change it to a $50.00 fine (or whatever number suits your league)/player in question gets a zero.I would think that the whole team shouldn't get A zero, just the player in question, that way its not a guaranteed win for the opponent.

 

[bryhamm]

If it's already in the rules, then you should follow them and give him a zero.

Now for correcting the rule going forward, we have a clause that it reverts to the previous week's lineup.

 

[Twilight]

If it's in the rules, it's in the rules and that's that. Change things in the offseason.

As for IR offenses, My solution is that the player is dropped immediately from the roster, and is ineligible to be picked up by the offending player. The IR spot also should be locked for the rest of the season unused. It isn't serious enough to affect scoring, IMO. This was an attempt to increase his roster. Eliminating the player he tried to save punishes the attempt, while eliminating the IR spot punishes his attempt to keep the player away from the other teams that might have picked him up.

 

[MCguidance]

Not to be a jerk - but that's why I love MFL, it won't allow an illegal lineup to be set. You can even set it so owners cannot start players on a bye.

 

[renesauz]

You really can't be changing the rules mid-stream, but maybe anyone on IR illegally should automatically be dropped from his roster and put into free agency.

This makes sense. Another possibility is a forfeiture of a late round rookie pick. I would be very hesitant to make a ruling which goes against the very clear rule you currently have in place. BUt there is a very clear lesson in here for all commissioners....Make sure tha te punishment fr any offense is not only enforceable, but affects only the owner(s) scewing up. I'm always amazed at how many leagues have unenforcable or short sighted rules which are no good for integrity of the league.ETA: Obviously this doesn't work in redraft.

 

[renesauz]

Another solution: He gets a zero (al loss), but his OPPONENT still has to beat his real score, or his opponent also gets a loss.

Your rules state what to do with the offending owner, not his opponent. This isn't the real NFL. There's nothing to say there can't be two losers.

This should satisfy everyone, and is in keeping with both the intent of the rule AND the integrity of the league.

 

[MCguidance]

Another solution: He gets a zero (al loss), but his OPPONENT still has to beat his real score, or his opponent also gets a loss.Your rules state what to do with the offending owner, not his opponent. This isn't the real NFL. There's nothing to say there can't be two losers.This should satisfy everyone, and is in keeping with both the intent of the rule AND the integrity of the league.

I like this a lot. But is it fair to change the rule mid-season? I would think that since this is the first time in 10 years, you can get away with doing it in the offseason.

 

[kylechoffman]

My league has a dedicated IR slot and prior to the season we decided that if you had a player in an IR slot who was not deemed O or IR by the NFL or the site (which pulls from the NFL), you would get a Zero for the top scoring starter at that position. Example - someone had shockey in the IR slot for a few weeks and started cooley while he was out - once he was activated, he left shockey there for two weeks and incurred zero points for cooley for two weeks. Luckily it didnt change the outcome of either game but the rule works.

I say if there is no rule, dont make a change midseason - deal with it and address in the offseason.

 

[TedHead]

Thanks for all the responses so far.

Maybe I didn't make it clear from my original post, but we are not going to make any changes this season. We are enforcing the rules and moving on.

We're trying to come up with a creative solution for next year.

 

[Nemesis]

Let's be clear here.

This isn't an illegal lineup (an example of an illegal lineup is starting 3 WRs when you can only start 2, etc)

Instead, this is an illegal ROSTER.

To the OP: You may want to have 2 different rules whereby an illegal lineup gets a 0 for the wk's matchup whereby an owner with an illegal roster gets fined $"x" amount. Make the fine amount large enough to get someone's attention so that others don't try to skirt the rules.

 

[MOAT]

Thanks for all the responses so far.Maybe I didn't make it clear from my original post, but we are not going to make any changes this season. We are enforcing the rules and moving on.We're trying to come up with a creative solution for next year.

We have the same problem with the IR spot. Our commish made a "spirit of the rule" clarification for the rest of the year (dropping the lowest % owned player) and we will revisit to close loopholes in the offseason. IR on CBS is tough to manage.

 

[gianmarco]

Let's be clear here.This isn't an illegal lineup (an example of an illegal lineup is starting 3 WRs when you can only start 2, etc)Instead, this is an illegal ROSTER.To the OP: You may want to have 2 different rules whereby an illegal lineup gets a 0 for the wk's matchup whereby an owner with an illegal roster gets fined $"x" amount. Make the fine amount large enough to get someone's attention so that others don't try to skirt the rules.

Does the rule specify it as an illegal lineup or an illegal roster or both? So if someone has an illegal roster for whatever reason, they just get a 0 for that week?

 

[Mark Wimer]

If you want to make sure the opposing team doesn't get a free win, rewrite the rule to read that in any week a team in play submits an illegal lineup and/or has an illegal roster, the offending team gets an automatic "L" (in some of the leagues I play in it is possible (though highly unlikely, but possible) for a team to score a negative score - the intent of your rule is clearly to force an automatic loss, so should be written as such).

The scheduled opponent that week would then have to score more than the league average for that week (not including the automatic "L" team).

To sum up: offending owner gets an automatic loss

offending owner's opponent must outscore that week's league average score to get a "W", or take a "L".

MW

PS. alternatively, you could require that the offending owner's opponent outscore the league's average score to date if you want to really "normalize" the fictional opponent in the case of a default from an offending owner.

 

[renesauz]

Thanks for all the responses so far.

Maybe I didn't make it clear from my original post, but we are not going to make any changes this season. We are enforcing the rules and moving on.

We're trying to come up with a creative solution for next year.

Um...did your rule (as it is written now) tell you what had to happen with the guys opponent? Did it say the offender gets a zero, or he forfeits his game?I guess what I'm saying is that league integrity is (or should be) the over-riding factor. No individual punishment should EVER, EVER interfere with the integrity of the league as a whole. If your current rules do, they need to be changed now...not next year.

I don't know the specific wording of your rules, but I'm not sure it matters. If I missed the playoffs because some other idiot screwed up his roster....I'd be quitting at the very least. Absolutely, positively unfair.

The commisioner's first and primary responsibility is to maintain league integrity and fairness, not blindly follow his own set of (obviously poorly written) rules when a hole is found.

 

[renesauz]

If you want to make sure the opposing team doesn't get a free win, rewrite the rule to read that in any week a team in play submits an illegal lineup and/or has an illegal roster, the offending team gets an automatic "L" (in some of the leagues I play in it is possible (though highly unlikely, but possible) for a team to score a negative score - the intent of your rule is clearly to force an automatic loss, so should be written as such).

The scheduled opponent that week would then have to score more than the league average for that week (not including the automatic "L" team).

To sum up: offending owner gets an automatic loss

offending owner's opponent must outscore that week's league average score to get a "W", or take a "L".

MW

PS. alternatively, you could require that the offending owner's opponent outscore the league's average score to date if you want to really "normalize" the fictional opponent in the case of a default from an offending owner.

I don't like this because it doesn't account for the strength of the team you were supposd to play. It's better then a free win, but not the same.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

We just went through this exact situation ourselves, and added a rule that an illegal lineup results in using the team's previous week's lineup and the team being fined in our league's fake currency (used to pick up FAs).

 

[rolliehouliranson]

If someone starts one more or one less player than they should have, they get the worst possible combination (subtract the best player at the position or add the worst), plus a ten point penalty.