How Many Teams Could Julius Jones Start For? (1 Viewer)

[Bob_Magaw]

if people want to go team by team that is fine, but to save time & effort and encourage more responses, maybe we could use rough threshold of whether he could start for about...

5 teams in the league

less than 5

more than 5

i'll say more than 5

an addendum, since i seem to be higher on him than many... lets assume he ends up with another team with RB not as good as barber & does indeed become feature RB again... lets say its not a team with best or worst OL but in the middle (i don't think DAL has top 5 OL and not sure about top 10?), and he is capable of putting up numbers similar to this year... recently he was pacing for about 1,500 yards combined & 4-5 TDs, but that was WITH BARBER... so for purposes of this thought experiment, IF JJ got around 1,700 yads combined and 7-8 TDs with team X (getting bulk of carries)... how good is THAT on a relative basis? would that put him in top 25 runners, top 20... i don't mean in actual rushing leader listings... but in a personal ranking/grading sense (don't methodically & systematically consider 32 names, just give a from the hip, gut feeling take on where he would finish with best case scenario... i'm aware there are worst case scenarios that he breaks his leg tomorrow & never plays again, but not really soliciting those... thanx for playin )... i also realize this is a pretty hypothetical & inferential argument, but it was the best i could think of at moment to get a sense of his relative value measured against other current & potential future RBs...

asking for a scouting breakdown on what he does well & doesn't do well is another way to attack the issue, but it seems like JJ invokes wildly divergent opinions, and maybe it is more scientific if we just project what his best case numbers would be (IF he was starter elsewhere, got more carries and stayed healthy... all within realm of possibility), relative to others... if he got 1,700 yards & 7-8 TDs, where would many rank him based on that, aside from some scouts thinking he is weak or doesn't break tackles well... those numbers would speak for themselves... THAT is what i am trying to get at...

* for example, in 05 his brother thomas jones had about 1,600 yards and 9 TDs, which is probably close to what i am looking at for comp in terms of STATS (LT "only" had about 1,800 combined yards, but had a BUNCH of TDs)... TJ finished NINTH in FBG scoring last season...

last question based on one immediately above... with similar genes being brothers, TJ is a comp player relative to JJ in a way that would rarely be possible to consider...

is JJ better than TJ

the same

or worse

and WHY? if some see a huge separation in ability, what is that observations grounded & rooted in?

 

[sib]

if people want to go team by team that is fine, but to save time & effort and encourage more responses, maybe we could use rough threshold of whether he could start for about...5 teams in the leagueless than 5more than 5i'll say more than 5an addendum, since i seem to be higher on him than many... lets assume he ends up with another team with RB not as good as barber & does indeed become feature RB again... lets say its not a team with best or worst OL but in the middle (i don't think DAL has top 5 OL and not sure about top 10?), and he is capable of putting up numbers similar to this year... recently he was pacing for about 1,500 yards combined & 4-5 TDs, but that was WITH BARBER... so for purposes of this thought experiment, IF JJ got around 1,700 yads combined and 7-8 TDs with team X (getting bulk of carries)... how good is THAT on a relative basis? would that put him in top 25 runners, top 20... i don't mean in actual rushing leader listings... but in a personal ranking/grading sense (don't methodically & systematically consider 32 names, just give a from the hip, gut feeling take on where he would finish with best case scenario... i'm aware there are worst case scenarios that he breaks his leg tomorrow & never plays again, but not really soliciting those... thanx for playin )... i also realize this is a pretty hypothetical & inferential argument, but it was the best i could think of at moment to get a sense of his relative value measured against other current & potential future RBs...asking for a scouting breakdown on what he does well & doesn't do well is another way to attack the issue, but it seems like JJ invokes wildly divergent opinions, and maybe it is more scientific if we just project what his best case numbers would be (IF he was starter elsewhere, got more carries and stayed healthy... all within realm of possibility), relative to others... if he got 1,700 yards & 7-8 TDs, where would many rank him based on that, aside from some scouts thinking he is weak or doesn't break tackles well... those numbers would speak for themselves... THAT is what i am trying to get at...* for example, in 05 his brother thomas jones had about 1,600 yards and 9 TDs, which is probably close to what i am looking at for comp in terms of STATS (LT "only" had about 1,800 combined yards, but had a BUNCH of TDs)... TJ finished NINTH in FBG scoring last season...last question based on one immediately above... with similar genes being brothers, TJ is a comp player relative to JJ in a way that would rarely be possible to consider...is JJ better than TJthe same or worseand WHY? if some see a huge separation in ability, what is that observations grounded & rooted in?

In my opinion, I see Julius starting for less than 5 teams in the league (CLE, TEN, NYJ as the teams I can def see him starting for; maybe NY Giants as well) If JJ got 1700 yds rushing and 7-8 TDs that would be tremendous and I would def rank a performance like that amongst the top 15 RBs in the league. I just don't see him doing that however. As far as the comparison between TJ/JJ, I'll stay away from that one since I've seen quite a bit of JJ over the past few years, but haven't seen as much of TJ over the past couple of years.

 

[Da Guru]

Jones was good his first year until he got hurt. Now he runs soft.

 

[Bob_Magaw]

thanx for the input, guys...

i'm not as sure about TEN (does henry leave, and they have white but his lack of use is a little alrming and leaves him a bigger question mark than i thought he would be at this point, so you could be right, sib)... HOU & GB also come to mind for me where he could be an upgrade...

just so i don't come off as JJ apologist, here is interesting breakdown from my favorite cowboys commentator, rafael vela, in which he talks about the aspects of barber's skill set in which he appears superior to JJ...

"Jimmy Johnson and Howie Long gave Marion Barber some love, at the expense of Julius Jones. They said Bill Parcells appears to trust Barber more with the ball. Barber does appear to have better vision on the goalline. He see holes on the opposite side of the play better and thus makes a lot of scores making extreme cuts Jones does not. It should be noted that Jones has one fumble this year, back in week two. In fact, the Cowboys backs have but one fumble between them this year."

i found this recent article interesting, in which he statistically compares DAL running game favorably with some of best rushing attacks in their history, including hey day with jimmy johnson & emmitt smith... while clearly barber a big part of that, it seems like many are quick to dismiss JJs role, though he is also plays a big role... sure he isn't getting a lot TDs, but he is racking up the yardage...

"The Julius vs. Marion debate continues to fester. At least the part of it that puts Jones down.

Here’s the skinny — it’s an empty argument. The Dallas running attack works. Very well, in fact. It’s the best we’ve seen since the glory days of Emmitt and the Moose. In fact, for all the poor mouthing the offensive line takes and all the accolades the ’90s guys get, today’s running attack rates right up there with Jimmy’s boys.

The Cowboys currently rank eighth in the NFL, averaging 132.1 yards per game. Dallas is just 20 total yards behind 5th place Tennessee. With three poor run defenses still on schedule (Detroit ranks 22nd, New Orleans 25th and Philadelphia 27th) it’s quite possible that Dallas will get that top five ranking.

I’ve taken the Cowboys’ rushing production for 12 games, averaged it out for sixteen and compared it to the ’90s Cowboys prime years of ‘92 through ‘95. Submitted for your perusal:

Year Yards Yds. Per Carry NFL Rank TD

1995 2201 4.5 2nd 29

1993 2161 4.4 2nd 20

1992 2121 4.2 5th 20

2006 2114 4.1 ? 23

1994 1953 3.6 5th 26

This year’s running attack closely resembles, statistically, those of the ‘92 and ‘93 Super Bowl years. Two backs are doing the pulling this year instead of one, and the lead blockers are working by committee instead of trying on a clever nickname. Still, the results speak for themselves.

This is a power running attack. It can score in the red zone, something the Cowboys have not been able to do since Emmitt’s prime. The 17 touchdowns scored ranks second behind San Diego and the marvellous LaDainian Tomlinson.

Constructive criticism is always welcome, but can we find something new to complain about? Whether you like Jones or want to lump him, the running game works."

 

[Bonzai]

Jones was good his first year until he got hurt. Now he runs soft.

garbage

 

[MrPhoenix]

1. Tennessee

2. Oakland

3. Cleveland

4. NY Jets

5. Houston (maybe)

6. Denver (maybe)

7. San Francisco (maybe)

8. Carolina

 

[TLEF316]

really glad i didnt jump on this train back in august. The J. jones owner in my leageu offered him every freaking day. To me, it was always clear that Barber would, at best, make this a RBBC.

Jones was always meh at Notre Dame, and he's the same now. Parcells shoul have taken steven jackson when he had the chance

 

[Bob_Magaw]

really glad i didnt jump on this train back in august. The J. jones owner in my leageu offered him every freaking day. To me, it was always clear that Barber would, at best, make this a RBBC. Jones was always meh at Notre Dame, and he's the same now. Parcells shoul have taken steven jackson when he had the chance

that said, does that mean you think he could start for 0 teams? 1 team, more?

 

[TLEF316]

really glad i didnt jump on this train back in august. The J. jones owner in my leageu offered him every freaking day. To me, it was always clear that Barber would, at best, make this a RBBC. Jones was always meh at Notre Dame, and he's the same now. Parcells shoul have taken steven jackson when he had the chance

that said, does that mean you think he could start for 0 teams? 1 team, more?

hmm. Well, If we going by NFL rosters at this very second, id say he could start for the following1) Oakland- Fargas isnt the answer2) Jets- still not enough faith in the RBBC3) Miami- ronnie brown out4) minnesota- if taylor is out5) Houston- He's better than Dayne and Lundi6) cleveland- id take him over droughnsclose, but not quiteTenneesee- Although he's no world beater, henry has done pretty wellCarolina- he's better than foster, but i think Deangelo is a top 10 Rb in the makingDenver- tatum is more explosive, but Jones would be better for a ball controll offenseTampa- Caddy has sucked this year, but its not all his faultso, assuming all RB's are healthy, id say he starts for 4 teams(oakland, Jets, Houston, Cleveland) and maybe 1 from the close list (Titans or Denver) depending on how the coaches liked him within their systems.

 

[Bob_Magaw]

really glad i didnt jump on this train back in august. The J. jones owner in my leageu offered him every freaking day. To me, it was always clear that Barber would, at best, make this a RBBC. Jones was always meh at Notre Dame, and he's the same now. Parcells shoul have taken steven jackson when he had the chance

that said, does that mean you think he could start for 0 teams? 1 team, more?

hmm. Well, If we going by NFL rosters at this very second, id say he could start for the following1) Oakland- Fargas isnt the answer2) Jets- still not enough faith in the RBBC3) Miami- ronnie brown out4) minnesota- if taylor is out5) Houston- He's better than Dayne and Lundi6) cleveland- id take him over droughnsclose, but not quiteTenneesee- Although he's no world beater, henry has done pretty wellCarolina- he's better than foster, but i think Deangelo is a top 10 Rb in the makingDenver- tatum is more explosive, but Jones would be better for a ball controll offenseTampa- Caddy has sucked this year, but its not all his faultso, assuming all RB's are healthy, id say he starts for 4 teams(oakland, Jets, Houston, Cleveland) and maybe 1 from the close list (Titans or Denver) depending on how the coaches liked him within their systems.

fair enough... thanx for weighing in... i'm starting to think number may be closer to five as opposed to more than five option... and maybe even less than 5 (3-4), but subject to change by, maybe 08 when he might be on open market...i found another comp player i like... willie parker from 05, with bettis as TD vulture... FWP had about 1,200 yards rushing, 200 receiving & 5 combined TDs... numbers very similar to what JJ is tracking for in 06... parker was the 15th RB in FBG scoring last season...so rather than speculate if he had 1,700-1,800 yards, if he landed in place where he could simply reproduce current stats, he isn't RB1 good, but if he could be the 15th RB, that could be a serviceable RB2 in 12 team leagues (or bigger... shoot, maybe even in 10 team leagues)...

 

[ExtraPoint]

For sure (he's a big improvement)

Cowboys

Giants (next year obviously)

Jets

Texans

Browns

Probably (he's as good or slightly better than the other options):

Falcons

Colts

Vikings

Broncos

Jaguires

Eagles

Steelers

Ravens

Bengals

Packers

 

[Bob_Magaw]

taking a closer look at FWP comparison, JJ is only 25th best RB this year... though if he had broken a few more medium length TD runs, it would get him inside the top 20 RBs...

JJ this year is slightly less than 10 PPG, FWP was closer to 11.5 PPG in 05... since i thought they projected to similar season numbers, i'll have to scrutinize numbers more to explain discrepancy... i was thinking RBs were doing better at top & middle which would push a RB that had been 15th in 05 to 25th in 06 (though seemingly an unlikely gap)... but that theory was shredded by just looking up the PPG differential...

 

[Raider Nation]

1. Tennessee

2. Oakland

3. Cleveland

4. NY Jets

5. Houston (maybe)

6. Denver (maybe)

7. San Francisco (maybe)

8. Carolina

Maybe what? Maybe if Gore trips over his dog and gets a leg amputated?

 

[Highway Robbery]

1. Tennessee

2. Oakland

3. Cleveland

4. NY Jets

5. Houston (maybe)

6. Denver (maybe)

7. San Francisco (maybe)

8. Carolina

Maybe what? Maybe if Gore trips over his dog and gets a leg amputated?

Yeah what a stupid suggested that he would start ahead of Gore

 

[Bob_Magaw]

i was looking more for additional input from others on the stated question than name calling posts about previous answers... frank gore is an outstanding RB, but that point can be conveyed with a lot more tact & restraint than the above poster employed... if you can't be excellent per joe bryants general FBG posting maxim, than please skip posting within here...

 

[Shark]

Julius Jones may be a Pittsburgh Steeler next year. Only way Cowher comes back is if the Steelers go out and get a 20+ carry power back. They will either get Julius Jones or trade in the draft.

 

[Pnishthm]

Julius Jones may be a Pittsburgh Steeler next year. Only way Cowher comes back is if the Steelers go out and get a 20+ carry power back. They will either get Julius Jones or trade in the draft.

What the hell are you saying here? Willie Parker has proven that he can carry the load much better than JJ has. Jones a "20+ carry power back"? THIS will NEVER happen!

 

[mr. furley]

Julius Jones may be a Pittsburgh Steeler next year. Only way Cowher comes back is if the Steelers go out and get a 20+ carry power back. They will either get Julius Jones or trade in the draft.

guy hasn't shown to be a 20+ carries per game power back.

 

[Raider Nation]

Julius Jones may be a Pittsburgh Steeler next year. Only way Cowher comes back is if the Steelers go out and get a 20+ carry power back. They will either get Julius Jones or trade in the draft.

What the hell are you saying here? Willie Parker has proven that he can carry the load much better than JJ has. Jones a "20+ carry power back"? THIS will NEVER happen!

Not to mention that they already brought in their "power back"....Mr. Poopy Pants.

 

[doowain]

1. Tennessee2. Oakland3. Cleveland4. NY Jets5. Houston (maybe)6. Denver (maybe)7. San Francisco (maybe)8. Carolina

Are you kidding me? Do you really think he'd start over Gore or DWill next year?

 

[MrPhoenix]

1. Tennessee

2. Oakland

3. Cleveland

4. NY Jets

5. Houston (maybe)

6. Denver (maybe)

7. San Francisco (maybe)

8. Carolina

Maybe what? Maybe if Gore trips over his dog and gets a leg amputated?

Yeah what a stupid suggested that he would start ahead of Gore

Gore has been known to get injured easy. Just sayin'

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

For sure (he's a big improvement)

Cowboys

Giants (next year obviously)

Jets

Texans

Browns

Probably (he's as good or slightly better than the other options):

Falcons

Colts

Vikings

Broncos

Jaguires

Eagles

Steelers

Ravens

Bengals

Packers

Nope.

 

[Bob_Magaw]

my latest list...

yes -

CLE

NYJ

HOU

GB

BAL

NYG

maybe -

DEN

JAX

TEN

OAK (in few years when he is avail)

DAL (RBBC)

ATL

ARI (few years when edge moves on)

no -

SD

KC

SEA

STL

WAS

BUF

MIA

NE

CIN

PIT

IND

PHI

CHI

DET

MIN

CAR

NO

TB

SF

 

[Shark]

Julius Jones may be a Pittsburgh Steeler next year. Only way Cowher comes back is if the Steelers go out and get a 20+ carry power back. They will either get Julius Jones or trade in the draft.

What the hell are you saying here? Willie Parker has proven that he can carry the load much better than JJ has. Jones a "20+ carry power back"? THIS will NEVER happen!

Not to mention that they already brought in their "power back"....Mr. Poopy Pants.

He has carried the ball 20+ times in 6 of the last 9 games. The only thing holding Julius Jones back is Parcells. Willie Parker is a play breaker, but not a grind it out RB like Jones (and what Cowher likes). Look at how many times the Steelers have had to throw this year..... I don't post in here often anymore because the lack of obvious lack of knowledge (no offense to the ones who actually are good, but comments like the ones above just make me laugh).October Rushing Receiving Fumbles GAMEDATE Opp RESULT GS Att Yds Avg 10/01 @TEN W 45-14 Yes 23 122 5.3 10/08 @PHI L 24-38 Yes 26 100 3.8 10/15 HOU W 34-6 Yes 22 106 4.8 10/23 NYG L 22-36 Yes 13 30 2.3 10/29 @CAR W 35-14 Yes 24 92 3.8 November Rushing Receiving Fumbles GAMEDATE Opp RESULT GS Att Yds Avg11/05 @WAS L 19-22 Yes 20 73 3.7 11/12 @ARI W 27-10 Yes 15 45 3.011/19 IND W 21-14 Yes 22 79 3.611/23 TB W 38-10 Yes 11 40 3.6

 

[Bob_Magaw]

couple other interesting questions (to me) about JJ are...

1 - if he had the option to stay beyond 07, would he necessarily leave to escape RBBC with barber, or does he appreciate fact that he doesn't take as big a beating and it could extend his career...

2 - fact that there are probably few teams in the NFL where he has as good a chance to get a super bowl ring... though ravens and two NY teams look promising (based on my latest list above), if debateably not as good as with cowboys?

3 - lastly, could he command a break the bank contract like lamont jordan & chester taylor did in past two seasons (not including edge as he was far more accomplished)... if so, & i'm not so sure he could, that would of course seem to increase chance he moves on...

of course, i think a lot people's opinions and answers on THESE questions will be colored by how they view JJ in first place... especially questions 1 & 3... those that think he a bum would probably assume he would be more likely to stay in a RBBC since they would presumably think he isn't starter material... similarly, that he couldn't command a big free agent contract for same reason... conversely those that respect his talent and ability would seemingly be more likely to answer these questions in the affirmative...

 

[Pnishthm]

Julius Jones may be a Pittsburgh Steeler next year. Only way Cowher comes back is if the Steelers go out and get a 20+ carry power back. They will either get Julius Jones or trade in the draft.

What the hell are you saying here? Willie Parker has proven that he can carry the load much better than JJ has. Jones a "20+ carry power back"? THIS will NEVER happen!

Not to mention that they already brought in their "power back"....Mr. Poopy Pants.

He has carried the ball 20+ times in 6 of the last 9 games. The only thing holding Julius Jones back is Parcells. Willie Parker is a play breaker, but not a grind it out RB like Jones (and what Cowher likes). Look at how many times the Steelers have had to throw this year..... I don't post in here often anymore because the lack of obvious lack of knowledge (no offense to the ones who actually are good, but comments like the ones above just make me laugh).October Rushing Receiving Fumbles

GAMEDATE Opp RESULT GS Att Yds Avg

10/01 @TEN W 45-14 Yes 23 122 5.3

10/08 @PHI L 24-38 Yes 26 100 3.8

10/15 HOU W 34-6 Yes 22 106 4.8

10/23 NYG L 22-36 Yes 13 30 2.3

10/29 @CAR W 35-14 Yes 24 92 3.8

November Rushing Receiving Fumbles

GAMEDATE Opp RESULT GS Att Yds Avg

11/05 @WAS L 19-22 Yes 20 73 3.7

11/12 @ARI W 27-10 Yes 15 45 3.0

11/19 IND W 21-14 Yes 22 79 3.6

11/23 TB W 38-10 Yes 11 40 3.6

So what's it like in your world?

 

[Bob_Magaw]

not watching game... was the 77 TD run the kind an NFL starting RB would make?

 

[Pnishthm]

not watching game... was the 77 TD run the kind an NFL starting RB would make?

It was a nice run. It will even bring his ypc above 4.0