How many years before the KC Chiefs move back (1 Viewer)

[safariplanet]

We all hear about the trade rumors, the stale quarterbacks, the inexperienced players, the lack of depth, on both sides of the football, and the inefficient coaching decisions. What do you think?

 

[Slider]

Depends on when they get a coach.

 

[FantasyTrader]

Awhile. A lot of very young, talented offensive players in this division. I don't see how KC isn't 3 years from a playoff push. They'd better start with defense.

 

[puckalicious]

Roughly a year after getting a competent coach, QB, and at least an average defense.

 

[BoltBacker]

I expect to be one of the few people that don't think Herm is the biggest problem in KC. There's a reason Vermeil walked away from this franchise when he did... not that he had a ton more playoff success than Herm has had with a much less talented roster. IMO these are the major factors in the decline of the Chiefs;

- OL, a lot of us asked every offseason why they weren't doing more to prepare for the retirement/decline of those guys. The old line "well we have new stiffs to replace last years stiffs on OL, and the new guys just CAN'T be worse!" has been repeated by some of the KC faithful for far too long.

- QB, they didn't ever seem to have a plan in place to replace Trent Green until he was injured AT THE AGE OF 36. If you don't already have a guy groomed when your starter is 36 then you pretty much deserve what happens.

- RB, Remember when LJ was Adrian Peterson a couple of years ago? Lots of youtube links of LJ running with a full head of steam through the line of scrimmage without getting touched. Some of us tried to point out that OL was helping an awful lot but we were shouted down. Herm didn't sign LJ to that monster contract. Speaking of contracts and salary cap situations....

- Pass Rush, On the flip side you had a young stud DE that helped the KC defense to tie for the 10th best pass rush in the NFL last year. You let the whole Allen contract situation fester and the salary cap goes up leaps and bounds(big shock) and suddenly it makes economic sense to trade Allen. Maybe it's just a coincidence KC fell from tied for 10th to tied for dead last with CIN in sacks. Maybe. Allen may not be lighting things up in MIN quite yet... but he has 1 fewer sacks than the entire KC team. Oof.

- CB, See OL/QB. When you have guys that old as your starters you just have to draft guys to groom relatively early in the draft. And speaking of draft....

- Draft, When you have a team as old as this Chief team was it's vital to get more than 1, sometimes 2 quality guys out of each draft. Let's take a look...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/kan.htm

.... I know I'll get lambasted by the sharks here for not blaming everything on Herm, but Herm hasn't been drafting those guys for the last 10 years. Vermeil was wise enough to see the window closing on the core of players he left. I'm still shocked Herm was able to ride these guys for one last playoff run.

All that said my vote was for 2 years. Turnaround happen a lot faster(for good and bad) in the NFL than people realize. It was only about 2 & 1/2 years ago people thought the Bills were a joke and they had fewer young pieces to turn things around than KC does now. Wouldn't be a sexy location for Cowher to land as HC but imo it would be the perfect fit for a community. KC has some of the best, most ravenous fans in the NFL and would support a fiery HC like Cowher for a decade or more and now that someone else has had to endure the brunt of the rebuilding Cowher would look like the miracle worker for just getting this team back to playoff contention.

 

[Ruffrodys05]

In today's NFL a team can turn it around in a relatively short period of time, given the right combination of changes that factor into such a reversal of fortune. I could point to any number of teams that have done this recently.

I voted 2 years.

For this to happen, we all know a coaching change, possibly a GM change and any number of player personnel changes need to take place between now and then for KC. Of course, changes in divisional competition will greatly affect such an outcome also. It helps if a divisional opponent starts a downslide at the same time KC starts heading up the ladder.

ETA: After reading BoltBacker's post, I have a question: Could Carl Peterson be a big part of the problem? I had been thinking so, but wasn't too sure as I just don't follow the Chiefs too closely.

 

[The Jacket]

Impossible to say until we find out who the new GM and HC is -- and more importantly WHEN they assume control. If Carl and Herm are both still here next year (shudders), it'd take a miracle by the new regime to have KC in the playoffs within three years.

 

[BassNBrew]

2nd year after herm is fired.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Depends on when they get a coach.

 

[Tanner9919]

next year..

stud WR, stud RB, developing O-line, high draft picks, young defenders..only need a competent QB...

look at Mimia just 10 months after finishing as the 2nd worst-ever team..they look like they've turned things around..

KC is ahead of teams like St Lou and probably right there with SF in terms of a developng group of youngsters getting better every day..st louis is old and breaking down..KC is going through growing pains right now, but they have some quality players..remember how every analyst ewas swearing that KC had the best draft of any NFL team this season? you won't notice that till 2009..and they will have yet another high draft pick next season, so perhaps they grab their QB of the future with what could be the #2-3 overall pick..

 

[ThePittbully]

If they can get a competent QB and a fresh new coach in their that Offense could put up points, the defense Im not so sure about

 

[travdogg]

I expect to be one of the few people that don't think Herm is the biggest problem in KC. There's a reason Vermeil walked away from this franchise when he did... not that he had a ton more playoff success than Herm has had with a much less talented roster. IMO these are the major factors in the decline of the Chiefs;

- OL, a lot of us asked every offseason why they weren't doing more to prepare for the retirement/decline of those guys. The old line "well we have new stiffs to replace last years stiffs on OL, and the new guys just CAN'T be worse!" has been repeated by some of the KC faithful for far too long.

- QB, they didn't ever seem to have a plan in place to replace Trent Green until he was injured AT THE AGE OF 36. If you don't already have a guy groomed when your starter is 36 then you pretty much deserve what happens.

- RB, Remember when LJ was Adrian Peterson a couple of years ago? Lots of youtube links of LJ running with a full head of steam through the line of scrimmage without getting touched. Some of us tried to point out that OL was helping an awful lot but we were shouted down. Herm didn't sign LJ to that monster contract. Speaking of contracts and salary cap situations....

- Pass Rush, On the flip side you had a young stud DE that helped the KC defense to tie for the 10th best pass rush in the NFL last year. You let the whole Allen contract situation fester and the salary cap goes up leaps and bounds(big shock) and suddenly it makes economic sense to trade Allen. Maybe it's just a coincidence KC fell from tied for 10th to tied for dead last with CIN in sacks. Maybe. Allen may not be lighting things up in MIN quite yet... but he has 1 fewer sacks than the entire KC team. Oof.

- CB, See OL/QB. When you have guys that old as your starters you just have to draft guys to groom relatively early in the draft. And speaking of draft....

- Draft, When you have a team as old as this Chief team was it's vital to get more than 1, sometimes 2 quality guys out of each draft. Let's take a look...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/kan.htm

.... I know I'll get lambasted by the sharks here for not blaming everything on Herm, but Herm hasn't been drafting those guys for the last 10 years. Vermeil was wise enough to see the window closing on the core of players he left. I'm still shocked Herm was able to ride these guys for one last playoff run.

All that said my vote was for 2 years. Turnaround happen a lot faster(for good and bad) in the NFL than people realize. It was only about 2 & 1/2 years ago people thought the Bills were a joke and they had fewer young pieces to turn things around than KC does now. Wouldn't be a sexy location for Cowher to land as HC but imo it would be the perfect fit for a community. KC has some of the best, most ravenous fans in the NFL and would support a fiery HC like Cowher for a decade or more and now that someone else has had to endure the brunt of the rebuilding Cowher would look like the miracle worker for just getting this team back to playoff contention.

Carl Peterson is a much bigger problem than Herm. If Cowher were to come in, I'd assume he'd want full control ala Mike Holmgren when he went to Seattle.

I said 3-5 years, but I think higher of Denver and San Diego than most. I think both those teams are playoff teams for the next few years, although SD really needs to get a move on this year.

 

[BoltBacker]

It's articles like this that really make me wonder if Herm is dragging the Chiefs down or just the opposite is true. I'm not saying Herm deserves a world of credit, just that he seems to be getting the bulk of the blame for what's gone on in KC imo and I really don't think he deserves it....

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8687234?MSNHPHMA

"Gonzo Not Gonzo

Few moves in fantasy football are as sleazy as this ol' chestnut: a guy makes a trade offer, you accept it and then the guy asks for more. It usually happens if you appear too eager to do the deal. It sets off an alarm for the other guy that maybe he's not getting enough, so he amends his demands.

It seems some variation of this maneuver took place between the Chiefs and Packers as they tried to seal a deal that would have sent Tony Gonzalez to the Pack. Gonzalez left a meeting with Chiefs' GM Carl Peterson with the understanding that a third-round pick would get him moved out of the Chiefs' rebuilding project and onto a contender. Peterson must have given Green Bay the same impression because Ted Thompson said yes to a third-rounder and the Packers sent the paperwork to K.C. to complete the deal. At which point the Chiefs asked for a second-round pick instead.

The Pack responded as all fantasy owners should to this bait-and-switch: no thanks.

So Peterson is left with a further-embittered future Hall of Famer (who discussed at length with the media his diminished regard for the GM) and no additional picks with which to rebuild. Mission accomplished!

It's also worth noting that in the wake of dealing Jared Allen, the Chiefs have a pathetic three sacks this season."

 

[BoltBacker]

I said 3-5 years, but I think higher of Denver and San Diego than most.

You could be right in that both SD/DEN seem to be set at QB for the next 5 years barring an injury and also have at least one young receiving threat that should compliment that QB for all 5yr as well.

 

[renesauz]

Voted 3-5, but that was as much because of Denver and San Diego as it was KC. I expect KC to be highly competitive as soon as next year.

 

[cash n carry]

6+ if they keep Edwards, it might be never.

 

[Despyzer]

Voted 3-5, but that was as much because of Denver and San Diego as it was KC. I expect KC to be highly competitive as soon as next year.

I agree. Just about the only times that the Broncos aren't at the top of the division it's because another team is amazingly good, not because the Broncos are bad. A. J. has done a lot of things really well fopr the Chargers, and I don't see that coming to an abrupt end.

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

It all depends on when Clark Hunt wises up and lets Carl Peterson go. It will either be after this season or when his contract runs out after the 2009 season.

Either way, I forsee three seasons AFTER Carl is gone before KC returns to the postseason.

That man has ruined this franchise

 

[Abstract]

The Chiefs will be back competing for the division title in 2010 and competitive next season.

 

[Shag]

As a lifelong Chiefs fan, I can tell you that Carl Peterson is, unequivocally, the root of the problem. 19 years on the job, 3 playoff wins total, and none since 1993. Listing his failures would take too long, so I'll be concise - Carl Peterson was Matt Millen before Matt Millen was Matt Millen.

Herm is part of the problem, but not the root. I hope he is replaced soon, but a new coach will be a waste of time if King Carl is allowed to continue his reign of failure. Clark Hunt needs to man up and do what should have been done 10 years ago.

 

[Despyzer]

As a lifelong Chiefs fan, I can tell you that Carl Peterson is, unequivocally, the root of the problem. 19 years on the job, 3 playoff wins total, and none since 1993. Listing his failures would take too long, so I'll be concise - Carl Peterson was Matt Millen before Matt Millen was Matt Millen.

And yet there has been a lot of winning and a lot of playoff seasons in that timespan. What do you attribute that to?

 

[Shag]

As a lifelong Chiefs fan, I can tell you that Carl Peterson is, unequivocally, the root of the problem. 19 years on the job, 3 playoff wins total, and none since 1993. Listing his failures would take too long, so I'll be concise - Carl Peterson was Matt Millen before Matt Millen was Matt Millen.

And yet there has been a lot of winning and a lot of playoff seasons in that timespan. What do you attribute that to?

To be clear, there has been a lot of regular season wins during that timespan, which means very little in the NFL. Almost all of that success was in the first half of King Carl's tenure, and is mostly attributable to Marty Schottenheimer and a great defense in the 90's. In the 90's, the Chiefs have had some great talents over the years, which resulted in regular season wins, but the team did not maintain that talent and build on it. In the Vermeil era, the team acquired aging free agents every offseason, and had ridiculously bad defenses - that philosophy resulted in zero playoff wins, and left the team in the state it's in today.In the last 10 YEARS, the Chiefs have been to the playoffs twice, one-and-done both times (including with the #1 seed in 2003). His last playoff win was 15 YEARS ago. That's abject failure by any definition I can think of.

Carl did reasonably well in his early years, but lost his burst long ago. What other GM has been allowed such a long tenure with such a record of failure? He has a long track record of bad personnel decisions, giving huge contracts to the wrong players, and horrible drafts. He's a beneficiary of the Clark family's loyalty to him, and I can only hope that Clark will not follow in his father's footsteps on this one.