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How would you handle this? (1 Viewer)

Judge Smails

Judge Smails

Footballguy
So I hire a guy to a pretty coveted sales position at my company. 40, single guy, pretty successful background, right make up.

4 months in we have a pretty important 3 days sales training event before a big conference. I take my sales team out to an early dinner on last night (1/2 day session next day). We get back to hotel around 9. 8am start time the next day. He sits down and has a beer with 25 year old inside sales guy. I go up as have early calls the next morning and have a presentation to practice.

My sales guys is a no show to leave to office in the am. Doesn't return calls or texts. We start our training, which includes President of US operations sitting next to me. I asked the 25 year old guy who's in front of me and looking pretty wrecked what time they left the bar. Said they went out. I asked what time they got back and he sheepishly holds up 4 fingers. I then get a text from my sales guy saying he felt like he had the flu after dinner and is sick. I asked the junior guy where they went that served so late. Turns out they went to a strip club.

OK, I could have written books on strip club travels back in the day, so no judgment there. But the lack of business judgment is mind blowing to me. Don't stay out until 4am when you are on important business. And if you do, suck it up, maintain, and find a way to get through it. But a no show? Man, even if you overslept or needed to sober up at least find a way to make it in. Then the lie. The other guy reports to me too but actually I give him a pass. 25 years old, first time on the circuit maybe, probably never felt the pain of being hung over and miserable at a conference/event. But he told me the truth. So while I question his judgment I at least trust him.

The other guy? Well, I went to bat for him big time. He's got a mid 6 figure base and an opp for big $$. And he risks it with stupid decisions made worse with lies? No communication after the text at 9am.

How would you handle? And what would you think of the guy going forward?

 
Can't count on him plain and simple. Handle your business, that can even mean hitting it on business travel but 1. dragging the younger guy down with him and 2. not showing up for game time are unacceptable.

 
I have no major issue with the 25 year old in this situation. He was facing a half day of sessions, so he went out, got drunk, but battled through it like so many have before him. He was also honest and handled the situation like a grown up.

The senior sales guy is on my #### list... 4 months in, depending on your sales cycle by 6 months he should be anywhere from 50-100% ramped up. You should have a decent read on abilities for this guy by now, so it is hard for me to make an informed judgement without this information. I'd be paying close attention to him as I'd struggle to trust him moving forward until he earns it back. I'd most certainly have a talk with him and let him know you aren't an idiot and don't like being treated like one. Throw him a little chin music.

 
25 year old - no issue at all. Maybe he learned something. Opportunity to mentor a young guy not too far removed from college.

40 year old - going out late to a strip club while on business shows immaturity. Lying to me shows disrespect and a major character flaw. If I don't fire him (and I probably do), he's counseled that one more strike in the next 6 months and he's fired.

 
25 y.o. - no issue, he dragged his ### in.

F'n NG - call him out, sit down, move forward. No need to put a bullet in his head. This time. But in no uncertain terms, let him know there's one in the chamber. It'd be pretty stupid of him to keep playing Russian roulette with his career.

Not sure what is more disturbing, the AWOL or the lying. Both are unacceptable and you're gonna let him know that.

 
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Just curious, what kind of sales job makes a great base with still a lot of upside?

Do you guys have advanced degrees or tons of experience in some technical area?

 
So the older sales guy think that you are an idiot and is not afraid to let you know it. The lie is as bad or worse than the no show. I have seen managers get fired on company sponsored trips for annual top performers for misbehaving while away on the company dime, so this guy either needs to be gone or the issue documented so that you can make him gone at your first desire.

 
I probably wouldnt fire him if he's been good 4 months in. I certainly would let him know he ####ed up and it wont be tolerated going forward.

I might ask him if he thinks its a fireable offense, just to scare him a bit, but also to see what his attitude is about it. Id also be sure to find out why he felt he needed to lie about it (maybe because he thinks its a fireable offense).

 
First thing I'd do is go on the internet and ask a bunch of strangers who have no knowledge of his skills, market demand and past history what they think.

 
He'd be on notice and would be ok if he were let go.

Pretty bad decision making while you are still new to a company at an outing of this sort.

 
Judge Smails said:
So I hire a guy to a pretty coveted sales position at my company. 40, single guy, pretty successful background, right make up.

4 months in we have a pretty important 3 days sales training event before a big conference. I take my sales team out to an early dinner on last night (1/2 day session next day). We get back to hotel around 9. 8am start time the next day. He sits down and has a beer with 25 year old inside sales guy. I go up as have early calls the next morning and have a presentation to practice.

My sales guys is a no show to leave to office in the am. Doesn't return calls or texts. We start our training, which includes President of US operations sitting next to me. I asked the 25 year old guy who's in front of me and looking pretty wrecked what time they left the bar. Said they went out. I asked what time they got back and he sheepishly holds up 4 fingers. I then get a text from my sales guy saying he felt like he had the flu after dinner and is sick. I asked the junior guy where they went that served so late. Turns out they went to a strip club.

OK, I could have written books on strip club travels back in the day, so no judgment there. But the lack of business judgment is mind blowing to me. Don't stay out until 4am when you are on important business. And if you do, suck it up, maintain, and find a way to get through it. But a no show? Man, even if you overslept or needed to sober up at least find a way to make it in. Then the lie. The other guy reports to me too but actually I give him a pass. 25 years old, first time on the circuit maybe, probably never felt the pain of being hung over and miserable at a conference/event. But he told me the truth. So while I question his judgment I at least trust him.

The other guy? Well, I went to bat for him big time. He's got a mid 6 figure base and an opp for big $$. And he risks it with stupid decisions made worse with lies? No communication after the text at 9am.

How would you handle? And what would you think of the guy going forward?
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This guy is making mid 6-figures (~500k)? At that price point, you show up when you're supposed to show up.

 
By the way, I wouldn't fire him, but that is probably colored by the fact that, as a younger man I made lots of stupid decisions over the years. He'd get a stern warning, a message that he needs to straighten up, and we'd go about our business. If becomes a habit, that's a different issue.

 
Definitely have a talk with him. A stern one.

I've had conferences and meetings where I'm out until 4 AM and literally dry heaving during the meeting while my boss laughed at me.

But - he knew I was a partier and we were away from home and appreciated that I made it to the meeting even though I felt like dying. It would have been FAR worse to invent some flu or stomach virus thing and just no show. You get your ### to the conference/meeting, period.

 
Now for the $64 question. How good a salesman is the 40 year-old? Is he Rob Gonkowski kinda good?

Rob Gronkowski is the NFL’s ultimate frat boy. His quote “Yo soy fiesta” pretty much says it all. The internet is loaded with images of the University of Arizona grad partying it up. This guy likes to get down so much that he actually went to an all night blow-out the night his Patriots lost the Super Bowl. His party animal persona earned him the front cover of ESPN Magazine. The magazine cover features Gronk naked with only his private parts covered. Best of all, last year he held an all-female football camp. Of course, libations were provided both before and after the event. The bar was stocked with his very own “Gronk-tinis”. Gronkowski is not only the biggest party animal in the NFL, but he may be the biggest party animal in all of sports today.
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If you went to bat for this guy and hired him, you might need to give him a second chance. However, I'd probably figure out a way to make him sweat for a while.

A childish excuse like this from someone making big money is absolutely ridiculous. If he's doing this when you're there, what is he doing when he is on the road solo?

 
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Definitely a warning that that's not how you roll around there and that if you suspect his boozing is affecting performance you'll have to let him go

Edit: the lying bothers me the most though so wouldn't fault you for firing him either

 
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You have a talk with him and give him another chance to come clean. Not confrontational, but mention you spoke to inside sales guy.

Make a mental note of the incident.

Monitor his sales a little closer than you would have otherwise.

 
If I were you, Judge, I'd think long and hard about what this episode says about your employees' decision making. Who the hell stays at a strip club until 4:00 AM? Do you know how much wasted money that is only to see the same handful of skeezers recycled through several times. Go to the strip club, see some beave, and get out in a reasonable time. That way you can either get out there and hunt for some conquerable beave while you're still hot and bothered or you can get back to the hotel room, rub one out, and call it a night. Judge, you need to talk with your guys about proper strip club outings.

 
To be honest, what do you expect when he's only getting paid a mid 6 figure base and an opp for big $$? At that compensation point you're basically pulling people out of McDonald's. When you start paying a living wage of mid 7 figure base then you can be a little more picky.

 
Al O said:
If I were you, Judge, I'd think long and hard about what this episode says about your employees' decision making. Who the hell stays at a strip club until 4:00 AM? Do you know how much wasted money that is only to see the same handful of skeezers recycled through several times. Go to the strip club, see some beave, and get out in a reasonable time. That way you can either get out there and hunt for some conquerable beave while you're still hot and bothered or you can get back to the hotel room, rub one out, and call it a night. Judge, you need to talk with your guys about proper strip club outings.
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He's 40 and single. He should've gone to the rub and tug.

 
I would fire his ###, for chicken #### lying to his direct report. His bad decision reflects directly on you. If you think this is the last/only time he throws you under the bus, you are sorely mistaken. He is being paid as a professional. Truth is, he is no professional. Cut your losses, fire this loser.

I'm a hard liner, but I believe if you pay people well, you have to expect to be treated accordingly.

 
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Since he's "outside" sales, how often is he around other employees? Does he report to the office everyday/week/month etc?

Because it is a little concerning if you're only around your management team during these special meetings that you can't keep it together for a couple days.

 
This is why you only go out and get hammered with the high-ups.

The lying is worse than the no-show.

 
Offer him further opportunities to lie and see what happens.

Tell him it is strange, you, being an insomniac, went out for a very early morning run, and while going past the Strip Club could have sworn you saw him leaving it at 0 dark thirty. You thought that was why he could not make the meeting, not the flu. Then add was that 25 year old I saw you with. Allow that you could have been mistaken.

See if he continues the lie. See if he backs off of it or comes clean. See, if in coming clean he tries to deflect blame onto the 25 year old, as in he just went there to pick the kid up and get him back to the Hotel. Learn all you can before making your decision.

 
Otis said:
Judge Smails said:
So I hire a guy to a pretty coveted sales position at my company. 40, single guy, pretty successful background, right make up.

4 months in we have a pretty important 3 days sales training event before a big conference. I take my sales team out to an early dinner on last night (1/2 day session next day). We get back to hotel around 9. 8am start time the next day. He sits down and has a beer with 25 year old inside sales guy. I go up as have early calls the next morning and have a presentation to practice.

My sales guys is a no show to leave to office in the am. Doesn't return calls or texts. We start our training, which includes President of US operations sitting next to me. I asked the 25 year old guy who's in front of me and looking pretty wrecked what time they left the bar. Said they went out. I asked what time they got back and he sheepishly holds up 4 fingers. I then get a text from my sales guy saying he felt like he had the flu after dinner and is sick. I asked the junior guy where they went that served so late. Turns out they went to a strip club.

OK, I could have written books on strip club travels back in the day, so no judgment there. But the lack of business judgment is mind blowing to me. Don't stay out until 4am when you are on important business. And if you do, suck it up, maintain, and find a way to get through it. But a no show? Man, even if you overslept or needed to sober up at least find a way to make it in. Then the lie. The other guy reports to me too but actually I give him a pass. 25 years old, first time on the circuit maybe, probably never felt the pain of being hung over and miserable at a conference/event. But he told me the truth. So while I question his judgment I at least trust him.

The other guy? Well, I went to bat for him big time. He's got a mid 6 figure base and an opp for big $$. And he risks it with stupid decisions made worse with lies? No communication after the text at 9am.

How would you handle? And what would you think of the guy going forward?
Click to expand...
This guy is making mid 6-figures (~500k)? At that price point, you show up when you're supposed to show up.
Click to expand...
Just base if I'm reading that right... I'd also assume at that level his pay has to be in the 70/30 or at worst 60/40 range, so could be opportunity around $800k?

Just curious, what kind of sale/field are we talking here JS?

If these numbers are remotely close, I retract my original statement and agree with Otis... I debate firing if he is earning that much. Furthermore, it sets a precedent for the inside guys probably earning a tiny fraction of this guy that this type of behavior is extremely unacceptable.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
At 40 it isn't just a bad decision anymore. Should be a helluva lot more mature than that.
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Yea, this is the troubling part. At 40, you simply don't let the booze make decisions like this (and if you do, you have a problem.)

Not saying 40 year old guys can't be out until 4, but not when there's an important meeting the next day. Your mid six figure guy very likely has a drinking problem.

Depending on if he was good, I would give the guy one more strike, but any misstep, and bye bye plum job.

Note: 40 year old will know 25 year old threw him under the bus. 25 year old needs to be prepared for this (and perhaps be the recipient of the "it's always best to be honest" talk.)

 
Guy is a huge ##### if he can't show up and sit there after a single night of drinking. He must be good at selling your widgets because there are a lot of sales guys out there.

Agree with those that say you just don't fire him but it is a serious mark against him and now you have to spend time watching him a little more closely.

 
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I am presuming the product he is selling is not fetish wear for strippers. If that was the case the guy maybe deserves a raise for his dedication in staying out half the night to try to make sales contacts. This would also be true if you are selling tattoo removal, or medications to control STDs, or even feminine hygiene products.

 
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BobbyLayne said:
25 y.o. - no issue, he dragged his ### in.

F'n NG - call him out, sit down, move forward. No need to put a bullet in his head. This time. But in no uncertain terms, let him know there's one in the chamber. It'd be pretty stupid of him to keep playing Russian roulette with his career.

Not sure what is more disturbing, the AWOL or the lying. Both are unacceptable and you're gonna let him know that.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

 
Tell him you know a really smart and attractive lady that you'd like to fix him up with, but don't tell him it's a tranny with intact penis. When he storms into your office mad as hell, say "now we're even".

 
McGarnicle said:
Tell him you know a really smart and attractive lady that you'd like to fix him up with, but don't tell him it's a tranny with intact penis. When he storms into your office mad as hell, say "now we're even".
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This is called using an elephant gun on a mosquito, but yeah try this.

 
BobbyLayne said:
25 y.o. - no issue, he dragged his ### in.

F'n NG - call him out, sit down, move forward. No need to put a bullet in his head. This time. But in no uncertain terms, let him know there's one in the chamber. It'd be pretty stupid of him to keep playing Russian roulette with his career.

Not sure what is more disturbing, the AWOL or the lying. Both are unacceptable and you're gonna let him know that.
Click to expand...
ditto

 
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