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How would you handle this? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Judge Smails
- Start date
correct me if I am wrong, but:
1. the whole reason you were "out of town" was for this meeting......?
2. he sees you go up at 9:00.......decides to stay out till 4:00 (which is bad enough even if he did end up showing up).....
3. he no call/no shows.....doesn't answer.....all cause he is "sick"......soooooo sick he can't contact you "at all" or be contacted "at all" before meeting
4. then he out and out lies to you (and you know it) about why he missed the meeting
5. he thinks you are dumb enough to fall for it
6. then thinks since you were already dumb enough to fall for it, (even though he knows you know he lied already by this point), that you will believe his "doctor" story that he thinks he needs to throw on top of this sundae because even he knows he should be fired....and all he has to do is "sound" like #### (which is sooo easy to pull off, we've all done it).....
7. and all he gets is a "don't do it again"......"or else next time"
8. meanwhile he got a nice trip out of town, got drunk, and hung out at a strip club till 4:00 with no consequences.....
(where do I sign up?)....
I would assume you are making him repay any and all travel expenses incurred by your company?
At least there would be a little out of pocket for his bad decisions and ##### slapping you in front of the rest of your employees.
1. the whole reason you were "out of town" was for this meeting......?
2. he sees you go up at 9:00.......decides to stay out till 4:00 (which is bad enough even if he did end up showing up).....
3. he no call/no shows.....doesn't answer.....all cause he is "sick"......soooooo sick he can't contact you "at all" or be contacted "at all" before meeting
4. then he out and out lies to you (and you know it) about why he missed the meeting
5. he thinks you are dumb enough to fall for it
6. then thinks since you were already dumb enough to fall for it, (even though he knows you know he lied already by this point), that you will believe his "doctor" story that he thinks he needs to throw on top of this sundae because even he knows he should be fired....and all he has to do is "sound" like #### (which is sooo easy to pull off, we've all done it).....
7. and all he gets is a "don't do it again"......"or else next time"
8. meanwhile he got a nice trip out of town, got drunk, and hung out at a strip club till 4:00 with no consequences.....
(where do I sign up?)....
I would assume you are making him repay any and all travel expenses incurred by your company?
At least there would be a little out of pocket for his bad decisions and ##### slapping you in front of the rest of your employees.
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John Bender
Footballguy
Wow, some of you guys seem a bit harsh. Its day 3 of a pre-conference training session. I don't know if any of you have been to these type of training sessions, but they suck (time and energy), even if you assume there are new product roll-outs/demos. How much do you think a top salesman is getting out of the third day (and a half-day at that)?
At this level, I mostly only care if my guy is hitting his numbers. If this was a no-show in front of a customer, or a no-show for the conference (which I assume is a big sales opportunity), maybe it warrants more discipline. But if this guys is closing enough business to justify a $150K+ base, then I think he gets a little leeway in this situation - he is probably not going to benefit from the last couple of hours of training time - which is taking away from his own selling time...
At this level, I mostly only care if my guy is hitting his numbers. If this was a no-show in front of a customer, or a no-show for the conference (which I assume is a big sales opportunity), maybe it warrants more discipline. But if this guys is closing enough business to justify a $150K+ base, then I think he gets a little leeway in this situation - he is probably not going to benefit from the last couple of hours of training time - which is taking away from his own selling time...
my understanding is that he missed a "very important" meeting that was really the most important part of them being there.....
I could be wrong.....
also just curious about where leeway begins and ends when somebody flat out lies to you about something like this......how many times does he get to piss on you.....as long as he is still hitting his number he can piss on you?.......
sounds like a pretty important part of the "important training event"..... had to go to bat for him to the Prez....third day/half day looked pretty important......not sure the judge would have even created this thread if it "wasn't a big deal".....seems like it was even if it was last day/half day.....and let's not act like dude was out selling at any point during those "hours".....
You want a guy who can close for you, or show up hungover at a training event?I am not say you reward him - but at that level it should be more about results, and less about appearances. Yes, you do have to worry about employee morale, and whether this guys is setting a bad example for others to follow.
If I were his sales manager, I'd coach him on the issues of earning trust, setting an example, networking within the company, etc. As a first offense, I am not terribly worried about it.
I was a general manager of a business unit in a similar situation - training event ahead of our biggest industry conference, my best saleswoman missed a session as a no-show, at the company headquarters. Company President noticed and asked me about it - now she was not out at a strip club the night before, but was out, and then later claims to have been sick.
She went out and won the company award for closing the most business at the conference, and nobody gave it a second thought.
at 40 years old and pulling down that kind of bank should "coaching" about things like bolded above and things like this (missing meetings because of strip club til 4:00) be neccessary.....?......in what world does a 40 year old professional still need coaching about those things....and a "pass" for first offense....?.....probably not this guys first time....
I am not say you reward him - but at that level it should be more about results, and less about appearances. Yes, you do have to worry about employee morale, and whether this guys is setting a bad example for others to follow.
If I were his sales manager, I'd coach him on the issues of earning trust, setting an example, networking within the company, etc. As a first offense, I am not terribly worried about it.
I was a general manager of a business unit in a similar situation - training event ahead of our biggest industry conference, my best saleswoman missed a session as a no-show, at the company headquarters. Company President noticed and asked me about it - now she was not out at a strip club the night before, but was out, and then later claims to have been sick.
all that would be is lip service to that dude.....and in his mind he is probably rolling his eyes and thinking "could you please shut the #### up before I ##### slap you again in front of everybody".....
yeah I might take a hit financially for a while, but I would rather surround myself with dedicated professionals.......you can build a team that is successful and doesn't have to deal with 40 year olds acting like 21 year olds you can't trust.....if he needs "coaching" about these things, he can go make money for somebody else till he does the same thing to them a second time and gets fired.....dudes like this can make good/quick money for you but they can also end up costing you......
MC Gas Money
Footballguy
If you arent going to can the guy you need to lay in to him hard and fast.
Otherwise he is going to think you are a chump that he can walk all over.
Drop that hammer right in his face and show him who is the boss.
Otherwise he is going to think you are a chump that he can walk all over.
Drop that hammer right in his face and show him who is the boss.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Had the conversation with him today during our annual review. I let him know my thoughts pretty explicitly. Not expected, not tolerated, there will be no 3rd time. You have to perform at our company but you also have to fit our DNA/culture. And that stuff doesn't fly. He apologized profusely, said he will earn back the trust. We'll see.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
So did he abandon the whole flu/doctor story? Because that kinda makes it worse, he kept his "deception" going after the conference. If he's making up doctor's appointments, that's something a 14 year old would do.
sbonomo
Footballguy
That's the only way you could have handled it. Sounds like you know the guy so you are going to have a valuable employee in the months to come as he really tries to make amends. Time to move on as long as he is doing his job.
MC Gas Money
Footballguy
Good.
For that salary he better be covered in your DNA and love every minute of it.
Maik Jeaunz
Footballguy
like others have said, I've been there before but always showed up. 3 hours of sleep when the alarm goes off...shower, coffee, gum. let's do this.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
Rayderr
Footballguy
Wait... He's done this before? Or are you giving him permission to do it just one more time?
shadyridr
Footballguy
no he saying if he does it again hes fired. 1 plus 1 = 2 ie no 3rd time.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I don't understand why showing up drunk/hungover is so obviously better than no-showing. If this event was so unimportant that the 25 yo could roll in probably still intoxicated, then who cares if the 40 yo sleeps in instead?
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
i think most are focused on the accumulation of the entire episode and what should be done like the OP asked........not debating whether it's better to show up hungover or simply no show.....thats probably a good question for a poll/different thread.....and I think it was shown that it was a pretty important meeting.....if it wasn't the OP probablly doesn't even start a thread about it....
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Judge Smails
Footballguy
There's a big difference between being hungover and hating life and having to suck it up (99% of us have done that) and showing up intoxicated. If you can function, and you're just hurting internally but can look presentable otherwise, you should show up. However, you show up drunk in the am you should be fired. We've sent guys home for good as soon as they've shown up at the booth. Come to think of it, it constantly amazes me to see the career limiting moves I see "professionals" make all the time. I've seen a sales guy get drunk on a President's Club trip and call his CFO a cheap *******, get him in a headlock, etc. I've seen guys have too many drinks and sexually harass two girls on our marketing staff until they were in tears. I've seen a chick get hammered and do snow angels on the Christmas Party dance floor with her dress going over her head while the CEO watched from the next table. Had a guy get so hammered at a conference that he walked in at 3am and promptly pissed on his roommates luggage. Other guy shows up at the booth with hickeys all over his neck after he and a customer (both married) were having cocktails at the networking reception. One guy shows up in Vegas at 11. Show started at 9am. Barely makes his demo time for a 9 person entourage, millions at stake. Still drunk from the night before and was bragging he was late because he was f'ing another client (she was hideous but I digress). I could go on and on. There seems to be a common theme for a lot of these ex employees.
jonessed
Footballguy
I would call him into my office and give him the chance to come clean and apologize. If he still lies he's obviously gone. Can't have that.
I would also treat the entire situation as one event. The sucking it up and coming in angle seems odd to me. If he was still drunk or puking he may have made the right decision to stay in his room.
Obviously this is all predicated on the fact that he's good at his job and has no previous black marks.
Mid six-figures is $500K, but I don't think the amount matters that much in this situation. He's still sales and not management. They generally get a bit more slack if they are good at their job.
I would also treat the entire situation as one event. The sucking it up and coming in angle seems odd to me. If he was still drunk or puking he may have made the right decision to stay in his room.
Obviously this is all predicated on the fact that he's good at his job and has no previous black marks.
Mid six-figures is $500K, but I don't think the amount matters that much in this situation. He's still sales and not management. They generally get a bit more slack if they are good at their job.
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Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
I don't need my sales team to be choir boys, I need them to close deals. That said, if they can't handle their alcohol and make fools of themselves at work functions, how in the world can you trust them in front of a client during a night out of drinking.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I just realized that all of my work-related anecdotes are boring as hell. We still tell stories about the guy who got pissed and kicked a trash can in anger -- yes, that's really the whole story. Nothing comparable to snow-angel chick.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Yeah, what do you guys sell Smails? Cocaine?
John Bender
Footballguy
That's not a crazy salary for sales for the guys hung up on how much money the guy makes.
Also, Smails is in SoCal iirc.
150k a year in SoCal and you're living in a homeless shelter.
Also, Smails is in SoCal iirc.
150k a year in SoCal and you're living in a homeless shelter.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Maybe these events keep happening because employees are allowed to get pissed up the night before and no-show conferences without any consequences.
coyote5
Footballguy
KCitons
Footballguy
Fennis
Footballguy
KCitons
Footballguy
coyote5
Footballguy
I was just clarifying that your salary starting point for comparing JS and his sales guy was wrong.
jonessed
Footballguy
Judge Smails
Footballguy
I think my incorrect mid 6 figures statement is what threw everyone off. That would be max max upside - certainly not the base. That's $160K for this position. Someone having 10+ years track record in a special vertical. And you're right about So Cal.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
I'm an average FBG. Right now wish I was a sales guy. Working my freaking ### off, not golfing enough. Living to work vs. the other way around. Not my style. Hope it's temporary and just ramping up with a new gig . And I'm far, far from Chet levels. But then again - who isn't?
James Daulton
Footballguy
So a family pulling down $150k in So Cal really wouldn't be able to afford a decent house and still have money left for other stuff? That's like 3x the national family average. Crazy to think about.
shadyridr
Footballguy
definitely not in NY
