I can't shake the feeling (1 Viewer)

[LordHusker]

Why was this bumped?

Ridiculous...like you could predict this injury.

Farve will still have 25 TD passes this year.

All I know is that I started him over Vick this week thinking that he'd put up mad stats against the crappy Lions, and ...

I lost.

 

[jwvdcw]

Why was this bumped?

Ridiculous...like you could predict this injury.

Farve will still have 25 TD passes this year.

Since this thread Favre has: had family issues with New Orleans situation, lost the season opener to a division rival, only scored 3 points against a terrible defense, lost thousands of dollars in a home poker game, thrown 2 INTs, and lost his #1 WR for the year....I'm certainly not suggesting that he can't turn it around, but so far this guys' "gut feeling" has been on.

 

[Verbal Kint]

Why was this bumped?

Ridiculous...like you could predict this injury.

Farve will still have 25 TD passes this year.

Since this thread Favre has: had family issues with New Orleans situation, lost the season opener to a division rival, only scored 3 points against a terrible defense, lost thousands of dollars in a home poker game, thrown 2 INTs, and lost his #1 WR for the year....I'm certainly not suggesting that he can't turn it around, but so far this guys' "gut feeling" has been on.

Its way too early to call it one way or another, but thanks for the early vindication.

 

[Verbal Kint]

So what's the verdict on this? Except for a 3 game stretch in wks 4-7 against CAR, NO & MINN, Favre has thrown more INTs that TDs in almost every game. Granted, his ytd totals are good enough to be a borderline QB1 (Iguess I'll have to eat crow on my TD projections). But more importantly to me is that he has lost a number of games by making collossal errors in judgement to the point where people (not me) are asking him to step aside so Rodgers can get some playing time.

 

[Banger]

So what's the verdict on this? Except for a 3 game stretch in wks 4-7 against CAR, NO & MINN, Favre has thrown more INTs that TDs in almost every game. Granted, his ytd totals are good enough to be a borderline QB1 (Iguess I'll have to eat crow on my TD projections). But more importantly to me is that he has lost a number of games by making collossal errors in judgement to the point where people (not me) are asking him to step aside so Rodgers can get some playing time.

The verdict is you were wrong. Is it surprising that he's throwing int's? Not to me but I drafted based on his anticipated yardage and td totals. He's #6 in my leagues scoring system and in the weekly Wheelhouse thread he was #4 overall. Right where or slightly ahead of where he was projected for this year. Losing games, who cares, this is fantasy football and I could care less if they lose games, in fact I drafted him knowing that their defense was horrible and he would be playing from behind every week. I think this is a weak attempt to save face. Favre had more than enough reasons for a bad season considering GB lost their top 3 rb's, their #1 and #3 and #4 wr's, their TE for stretches of time, etc. The fact he's done as well as he has is remarkable.

 

[Verbal Kint]

So what's the verdict on this? Except for a 3 game stretch in wks 4-7 against CAR, NO & MINN, Favre has thrown more INTs that TDs in almost every game. Granted, his ytd totals are good enough to be a borderline QB1 (Iguess I'll have to eat crow on my TD projections). But more importantly to me is that he has lost a number of games by making collossal errors in judgement to the point where people (not me) are asking him to step aside so Rodgers can get some playing time.

The verdict is you were wrong. Is it surprising that he's throwing int's? Not to me but I drafted based on his anticipated yardage and td totals. He's #6 in my leagues scoring system and in the weekly Wheelhouse thread he was #4 overall. Right where or slightly ahead of where he was projected for this year. Losing games, who cares, this is fantasy football and I could care less if they lose games, in fact I drafted him knowing that their defense was horrible and he would be playing from behind every week. I think this is a weak attempt to save face. Favre had more than enough reasons for a bad season considering GB lost their top 3 rb's, their #1 and #3 and #4 wr's, their TE for stretches of time, etc. The fact he's done as well as he has is remarkable.

Hey, if you feel good having him as your starting QB, thats great. I know I'm ecstatic that I avoided him. And you can point to injuries all you want, but his WR core is still at least average, and Davenport and Gado have been as effective as Green was so that doesn't really matter. Considering the amount of discussion about whether he should continue to start or sit, I'd say its a fair statement that he had an off year.

 

[Banger]

So what's the verdict on this? Except for a 3 game stretch in wks 4-7 against CAR, NO & MINN, Favre has thrown more INTs that TDs in almost every game. Granted, his ytd totals are good enough to be a borderline QB1 (Iguess I'll have to eat crow on my TD projections).  But more importantly to me is that he has lost a number of games by making collossal errors in judgement to the point where people (not me) are asking him to step aside so Rodgers can get some playing time.

The verdict is you were wrong. Is it surprising that he's throwing int's? Not to me but I drafted based on his anticipated yardage and td totals. He's #6 in my leagues scoring system and in the weekly Wheelhouse thread he was #4 overall. Right where or slightly ahead of where he was projected for this year. Losing games, who cares, this is fantasy football and I could care less if they lose games, in fact I drafted him knowing that their defense was horrible and he would be playing from behind every week. I think this is a weak attempt to save face. Favre had more than enough reasons for a bad season considering GB lost their top 3 rb's, their #1 and #3 and #4 wr's, their TE for stretches of time, etc. The fact he's done as well as he has is remarkable.

Hey, if you feel good having him as your starting QB, thats great. I know I'm ecstatic that I avoided him. And you can point to injuries all you want, but his WR core is still at least average, and Davenport and Gado have been as effective as Green was so that doesn't really matter. Considering the amount of discussion about whether he should continue to start or sit, I'd say its a fair statement that he had an off year.

I don't know why you'd be ecstatic about not selecting a top 4 qb for surely the 8th-10th qb off the board. He's been good/great value for where he was selected. The discussion about whether he should sit or not has nothing at all to do with his performance and has everything to do with the fact that he may retire and whether or not they should start grooming a replacement considering that the Pack are out of playoff contention. It's a moot point though since the Pack organization have stated that he will start for the rest of the year. You certainly wouldn't suggest that Rogers would be an improvement performance wise would you?

 

[Tough As Nails]

So what's the verdict on this? Except for a 3 game stretch in wks 4-7 against CAR, NO & MINN, Favre has thrown more INTs that TDs in almost every game. Granted, his ytd totals are good enough to be a borderline QB1 (Iguess I'll have to eat crow on my TD projections).  But more importantly to me is that he has lost a number of games by making collossal errors in judgement to the point where people (not me) are asking him to step aside so Rodgers can get some playing time.

The verdict is you were wrong. Is it surprising that he's throwing int's? Not to me but I drafted based on his anticipated yardage and td totals. He's #6 in my leagues scoring system and in the weekly Wheelhouse thread he was #4 overall. Right where or slightly ahead of where he was projected for this year. Losing games, who cares, this is fantasy football and I could care less if they lose games, in fact I drafted him knowing that their defense was horrible and he would be playing from behind every week. I think this is a weak attempt to save face. Favre had more than enough reasons for a bad season considering GB lost their top 3 rb's, their #1 and #3 and #4 wr's, their TE for stretches of time, etc. The fact he's done as well as he has is remarkable.

Hey, if you feel good having him as your starting QB, thats great. I know I'm ecstatic that I avoided him. And you can point to injuries all you want, but his WR core is still at least average, and Davenport and Gado have been as effective as Green was so that doesn't really matter. Considering the amount of discussion about whether he should continue to start or sit, I'd say its a fair statement that he had an off year.

I don't know why you'd be ecstatic about not selecting a top 4 qb for surely the 8th-10th qb off the board. He's been good/great value for where he was selected. The discussion about whether he should sit or not has nothing at all to do with his performance and has everything to do with the fact that he may retire and whether or not they should start grooming a replacement considering that the Pack are out of playoff contention. It's a moot point though since the Pack organization have stated that he will start for the rest of the year. You certainly wouldn't suggest that Rogers would be an improvement performance wise would you?

I'll jump in here for just a second. No. I don't think Rogers would be an improvement performance wise (and certainly not fantasy wise...he wouldn't be close to Favre's fantasy value). But if Rogers started all 11 Packer games...I'll put the over/under on number of wins the team has right at 2. He would/could have won that Saints game (hell, I could have won it) and one win from a rookie QB in half a season is not unrealistic at all with this Packer team. So what has Favre really accomplished this season? He's been fun to watch (as always) and has made some great throws. Ok. I get the entertainment part of it. But the results in the win column are not there. So why not give 'the future' a look? It can't be much worse.

 

[Marc Levin]

So what's the verdict on this? Except for a 3 game stretch in wks 4-7 against CAR, NO & MINN, Favre has thrown more INTs that TDs in almost every game. Granted, his ytd totals are good enough to be a borderline QB1 (Iguess I'll have to eat crow on my TD projections). But more importantly to me is that he has lost a number of games by making collossal errors in judgement to the point where people (not me) are asking him to step aside so Rodgers can get some playing time.

My verdict on this is that Favre is FOR SURE retiring.Why should he return?

 

[Raiders Fan]

He has no real RB.. He lost a stud WR.. I think he's doing alright given what he lost.. I doubt this would be an issue if he had his other weapons.. Take almost any other QB's weapons away and I bet they struggle..

 

[Marc Levin]

He has no real RB.. He lost a stud WR.. I think he's doing alright given what he lost.. I doubt this would be an issue if he had his other weapons.. Take almost any other QB's weapons away and I bet they struggle..

he went into the year knowing what he had on the OL. The RB losses and HIS problems stem entirely from the OL problems - not the loss of Walker and Green.

 

[Sabertooth]

So what's the verdict on this? Except for a 3 game stretch in wks 4-7 against CAR, NO & MINN, Favre has thrown more INTs that TDs in almost every game. Granted, his ytd totals are good enough to be a borderline QB1 (Iguess I'll have to eat crow on my TD projections).  But more importantly to me is that he has lost a number of games by making collossal errors in judgement to the point where people (not me) are asking him to step aside so Rodgers can get some playing time.

The verdict is you were wrong. Is it surprising that he's throwing int's? Not to me but I drafted based on his anticipated yardage and td totals. He's #6 in my leagues scoring system and in the weekly Wheelhouse thread he was #4 overall. Right where or slightly ahead of where he was projected for this year. Losing games, who cares, this is fantasy football and I could care less if they lose games, in fact I drafted him knowing that their defense was horrible and he would be playing from behind every week. I think this is a weak attempt to save face. Favre had more than enough reasons for a bad season considering GB lost their top 3 rb's, their #1 and #3 and #4 wr's, their TE for stretches of time, etc. The fact he's done as well as he has is remarkable.

Hey, if you feel good having him as your starting QB, thats great. I know I'm ecstatic that I avoided him. And you can point to injuries all you want, but his WR core is still at least average, and Davenport and Gado have been as effective as Green was so that doesn't really matter. Considering the amount of discussion about whether he should continue to start or sit, I'd say its a fair statement that he had an off year.

You are just plain wrong. Favre has been very nice for me. I notice you waited for him to have his worst week to bring this up to try and prop up your case, but the fact remains that he is a solid fantasy starter. Of course, the league that I have him in doesn't penalize for picks either. You might be right that he's had an off year, but take away Harrison, Stokley, James, Rhodes, and Mungro from Manning and see where he is at. Not making excuses for Favre because he needs none.

 

[Sabertooth]

He has no real RB.. He lost a stud WR..  I think he's doing alright given what he lost..  I doubt this would be an issue if he had his other weapons..  Take almost any other QB's weapons away and I bet they struggle..

he went into the year knowing what he had on the OL. The RB losses and HIS problems stem entirely from the OL problems - not the loss of Walker, Ferguson, Murphy, Davenport and Green.

Fixed

 

[Verbal Kint]

So what's the verdict on this? Except for a 3 game stretch in wks 4-7 against CAR, NO & MINN, Favre has thrown more INTs that TDs in almost every game. Granted, his ytd totals are good enough to be a borderline QB1 (Iguess I'll have to eat crow on my TD projections). But more importantly to me is that he has lost a number of games by making collossal errors in judgement to the point where people (not me) are asking him to step aside so Rodgers can get some playing time.

The verdict is you were wrong. Is it surprising that he's throwing int's? Not to me but I drafted based on his anticipated yardage and td totals. He's #6 in my leagues scoring system and in the weekly Wheelhouse thread he was #4 overall. Right where or slightly ahead of where he was projected for this year. Losing games, who cares, this is fantasy football and I could care less if they lose games, in fact I drafted him knowing that their defense was horrible and he would be playing from behind every week. I think this is a weak attempt to save face. Favre had more than enough reasons for a bad season considering GB lost their top 3 rb's, their #1 and #3 and #4 wr's, their TE for stretches of time, etc. The fact he's done as well as he has is remarkable.

Hey, if you feel good having him as your starting QB, thats great. I know I'm ecstatic that I avoided him. And you can point to injuries all you want, but his WR core is still at least average, and Davenport and Gado have been as effective as Green was so that doesn't really matter. Considering the amount of discussion about whether he should continue to start or sit, I'd say its a fair statement that he had an off year.

You are just plain wrong. Favre has been very nice for me. I notice you waited for him to have his worst week to bring this up to try and prop up your case, but the fact remains that he is a solid fantasy starter. Of course, the league that I have him in doesn't penalize for picks either. You might be right that he's had an off year, but take away Harrison, Stokley, James, Rhodes, and Mungro from Manning and see where he is at. Not making excuses for Favre because he needs none.

If I were simply waiting for a bad game, I would have bumped this after the Cincy game.

 

[Marc Levin]

He has no real RB.. He lost a stud WR..  I think he's doing alright given what he lost..  I doubt this would be an issue if he had his other weapons..  Take almost any other QB's weapons away and I bet they struggle..

he went into the year knowing what he had on the OL. The RB losses and HIS problems stem entirely from the OL problems - not the loss of Walker and Green.

Fixed

re-fixed. Every team suffers injuries.

 

[Verbal Kint]

Incidentally, Gannon's passer rating for 2003 was 73.5. Favre's 2005 rating is 79.3. Hmmm.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Let's see.. 19 TDs 19 INTs, 13th ranked QB in FBG scoring which would be his lowest rating ever as a starting QB.mini-implosionIf anything, he's proof that 6 pt passing TDs are silly and we don't penalize for INTs nearly enough.

 

[Tough As Nails]

He has no real RB.. He lost a stud WR.. I think he's doing alright given what he lost.. I doubt this would be an issue if he had his other weapons.. Take almost any other QB's weapons away and I bet they struggle..

You think 2-9 is "alright"? You must be talking fantasy numbers and not actual team performance.

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

He has no real RB.. He lost a stud WR..  I think he's doing alright given what he lost..  I doubt this would be an issue if he had his other weapons..  Take almost any other QB's weapons away and I bet they struggle..

he went into the year knowing what he had on the OL. The RB losses and HIS problems stem entirely from the OL problems - not the loss of Walker and Green.

Huh? Favre has been hurt by the injuries to Green, Davenport, Fisher, Walker, Ferguson, Murphy, and Franks. Yes, every team has injuries but Favre lost all his weapons except Driver.

 

[Marc Levin]

he had all his weapons except Walker when he and the running game were running for their lives early in the season.You can trace Favre's poor games back to weeks 1-3 - and you can attribute the vast majority of his problems to the poor OL play.The last three-four weeks are not the entire problem - it is the WHOLE season.edit - and I would argue BOTH RB injuries (Davenport and Green) are attributable to poor OL play. Esp. Green - he was playing poorly before finally getting injured - just as he plays poorly every year he has OL problems.

 

[norseman9375]

He has no real RB.. He lost a stud WR..  I think he's doing alright given what he lost..  I doubt this would be an issue if he had his other weapons..  Take almost any other QB's weapons away and I bet they struggle..

You think 2-9 is "alright"? You must be talking fantasy numbers and not actual team performance.

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

he had all his weapons except Walker when he and the running game were running for their lives early in the season.

You can trace Favre's poor games back to weeks 1-3 - and you can attribute the vast majority of his problems to the poor OL play.

The last three-four weeks are not the entire problem - it is the WHOLE season.

edit - and I would argue BOTH RB injuries (Davenport and Green) are attributable to poor OL play.  Esp. Green - he was playing poorly before finally getting injured - just as he plays poorly every year he has OL problems.

For a staffer, I would hope you would know more than that. There is no way you can tell anyone on the board that Favre hasn't been hurt by injuries to Walker, Ferguson, Murphy, and Bubba Franks.

 

[Marc Levin]

he had all his weapons except Walker when he and the running game were running for their lives early in the season.

You can trace Favre's poor games back to weeks 1-3 - and you can attribute the vast majority of his problems to the poor OL play.

The last three-four weeks are not the entire problem - it is the WHOLE season.

edit - and I would argue BOTH RB injuries (Davenport and Green) are attributable to poor OL play.  Esp. Green - he was playing poorly before finally getting injured - just as he plays poorly every year he has OL problems.

For a staffer, I would hope you would know more than that. There is no way you can tell anyone on the board that Favre hasn't been hurt by injuries to Walker, Ferguson, Murphy, and Bubba Franks.

I didn't say he hasn't been hurt by those things - staff or not is irrelevent. If he hadn't had all the injuries, MAYBE he wouldn;t look so bad right now. But the injuries to Walker and Green (and all the other injuries) are secondary to the poor OL play for Favre. Heck, he didn't NEED Walker when he was on fire with Driver two years ago.Get rid of that short term memory - Franks has been gone for exactly one week - that injury is a symptom not a cause of an imploding team.

Unless you are genuinely arguing that Favre's been gold since week one and it was only the injuries that have killed him, you have to acknowledge the HORRID OL play - and, IMO, as a staffer - it is the OL play WAY WAY more than injuries. I have seen Favre put up Pro Bowl seasons with just as bad injuries to the Pack - but he had decent OL play.

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

he had all his weapons except Walker when he and the running game were running for their lives early in the season.

You can trace Favre's poor games back to weeks 1-3 - and you can attribute the vast majority of his problems to the poor OL play.

The last three-four weeks are not the entire problem - it is the WHOLE season.

edit - and I would argue BOTH RB injuries (Davenport and Green) are attributable to poor OL play.  Esp. Green - he was playing poorly before finally getting injured - just as he plays poorly every year he has OL problems.

For a staffer, I would hope you would know more than that. There is no way you can tell anyone on the board that Favre hasn't been hurt by injuries to Walker, Ferguson, Murphy, and Bubba Franks.

I didn't say he hasn't been hurt by those things - staff or not is irrelevent. If he hadn't had all the injuries, MAYBE he wouldn;t look so bad right now. But the injuries to Walker and Green (and all the other injuries) are secondary to the poor OL play for Favre. Heck, he didn't NEED Walker when he was on fire with Driver two years ago.Get rid of that short term memory - Franks has been gone for exactly one week - that injury is a symptom not a cause of an imploding team.

Unless you are genuinely arguing that Favre's been gold since week one and it was only the injuries that have killed him, you have to acknowledge the HORRID OL play - and, IMO, as a staffer - it is the OL play WAY WAY more than injuries. I have seen Favre put up Pro Bowl seasons with just as bad injuries to the Pack - but he had decent OL play.

Franks hasn't been close to 100% for weeks and the Packers have NEVER had this many injuries to the skill positions since Favre took over. You may want to go ask some of the experts that follow the NFL and ask them if Favre has been impacted by the injuries to his weapons. Also, the offensive line play hasn't been as horrid as you claim. Favre has only been sacked 14 times and the line has played better recently.

"Get rid of that short term memory - Franks has been gone for exactly one week - that injury is a symptom not a cause of an imploding team."

Short term memory? You may actually need to get a memory. Franks missed weeks 3 and 4 and played one snap during week #5.

 

[Tough As Nails]

he had all his weapons except Walker when he and the running game were running for their lives early in the season.

You can trace Favre's poor games back to weeks 1-3 - and you can attribute the vast majority of his problems to the poor OL play.

The last three-four weeks are not the entire problem - it is the WHOLE season.

edit - and I would argue BOTH RB injuries (Davenport and Green) are attributable to poor OL play. Esp. Green - he was playing poorly before finally getting injured - just as he plays poorly every year he has OL problems.

For a staffer, I would hope you would know more than that. There is no way you can tell anyone on the board that Favre hasn't been hurt by injuries to Walker, Ferguson, Murphy, and Bubba Franks.

I didn't say he hasn't been hurt by those things - staff or not is irrelevent. If he hadn't had all the injuries, MAYBE he wouldn;t look so bad right now. But the injuries to Walker and Green (and all the other injuries) are secondary to the poor OL play for Favre. Heck, he didn't NEED Walker when he was on fire with Driver two years ago.Get rid of that short term memory - Franks has been gone for exactly one week - that injury is a symptom not a cause of an imploding team.

Unless you are genuinely arguing that Favre's been gold since week one and it was only the injuries that have killed him, you have to acknowledge the HORRID OL play - and, IMO, as a staffer - it is the OL play WAY WAY more than injuries. I have seen Favre put up Pro Bowl seasons with just as bad injuries to the Pack - but he had decent OL play.

Franks hasn't been close to 100% for weeks and the Packers have NEVER had this many injuries to the skill positions since Favre took over. You may want to go ask some of the experts that follow the NFL and ask them if Favre has been impacted by the injuries to his weapons. Also, the offensive line play hasn't been as horrid as you claim. Favre has only been sacked 14 times and the line has played better recently.

"Get rid of that short term memory - Franks has been gone for exactly one week - that injury is a symptom not a cause of an imploding team."

Short term memory? You may actually need to get a memory. Franks missed weeks 3 and 4 and played one snap during week #5.

OK...you say it is the injuries to all the weapons. Then explain week 1...everybody healthy...3 points against the Lions. Explain a week 2 loss at home to a bad Browns team. Explain a 16 point effort and a loss against the Buccaneers at home in week 3. Even when the Pack had skill position guys healthy...they still got beat. Injuries are not an excuse. Every team in the league has injuries. The Patriots have probably been banged up worse than the Packers. They are right in the hunt. The Eagles have been decimated by injuries and they beat the Packers.

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

he had all his weapons except Walker when he and the running game were running for their lives early in the season.

You can trace Favre's poor games back to weeks 1-3 - and you can attribute the vast majority of his problems to the poor OL play.

The last three-four weeks are not the entire problem - it is the WHOLE season.

edit - and I would argue BOTH RB injuries (Davenport and Green) are attributable to poor OL play.  Esp. Green - he was playing poorly before finally getting injured - just as he plays poorly every year he has OL problems.

For a staffer, I would hope you would know more than that. There is no way you can tell anyone on the board that Favre hasn't been hurt by injuries to Walker, Ferguson, Murphy, and Bubba Franks.

I didn't say he hasn't been hurt by those things - staff or not is irrelevent. If he hadn't had all the injuries, MAYBE he wouldn;t look so bad right now. But the injuries to Walker and Green (and all the other injuries) are secondary to the poor OL play for Favre. Heck, he didn't NEED Walker when he was on fire with Driver two years ago.Get rid of that short term memory - Franks has been gone for exactly one week - that injury is a symptom not a cause of an imploding team.

Unless you are genuinely arguing that Favre's been gold since week one and it was only the injuries that have killed him, you have to acknowledge the HORRID OL play - and, IMO, as a staffer - it is the OL play WAY WAY more than injuries. I have seen Favre put up Pro Bowl seasons with just as bad injuries to the Pack - but he had decent OL play.

Franks hasn't been close to 100% for weeks and the Packers have NEVER had this many injuries to the skill positions since Favre took over. You may want to go ask some of the experts that follow the NFL and ask them if Favre has been impacted by the injuries to his weapons. Also, the offensive line play hasn't been as horrid as you claim. Favre has only been sacked 14 times and the line has played better recently.

"Get rid of that short term memory - Franks has been gone for exactly one week - that injury is a symptom not a cause of an imploding team."

Short term memory? You may actually need to get a memory. Franks missed weeks 3 and 4 and played one snap during week #5.

OK...you say it is the injuries to all the weapons. Then explain week 1...everybody healthy...3 points against the Lions. Explain a week 2 loss at home to a bad Browns team. Explain a 16 point effort and a loss against the Buccaneers at home in week 3. Even when the Pack had skill position guys healthy...they still got beat. Injuries are not an excuse. Every team in the league has injuries. The Patriots have probably been banged up worse than the Packers. They are right in the hunt. The Eagles have been decimated by injuries and they beat the Packers.

"Even when the Pack had skill position guys healthy...they still got beat."Yes they did for the first week.

You clowns just keep believing that injuries to the skill positions haven't hurt Favre and the Packers.

 

[Marc Levin]

You clowns just keep believing that injuries to the skill positions haven't hurt Favre and the Packers.

I, personally never said that - I acknowledge it. My position is the OL woes and the OL play has been much more influential on Favre's numbers than the injuries. When judging the OL play with Favre, the 14 sacks is not the end-all number. I was able to watch the first four Packer games and I watched almost every Green Bay offensive snap of those games. Favre was getting pressured almost every play and either escaped, threw the ball away, or was able to get into a position to make a play. Favre's play - not the OL - was what prevented the sacks. And the running game was horrid - there were absolutely no holes for Green to run at - let alone try to burst through.

I am surprised anyone could chalk it all up to injuries given Green Bay's multiple "come from behind" performances early in the year that still fell short. The vast bulk of Favre's numbers in those first few games came against prevent defenses when there was almost no DL pressure.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

You clowns just keep believing that injuries to the skill positions haven't hurt Favre and the Packers.

I, personally never said that - I acknowledge it. My position is the OL woes and the OL play has been much more influential on Favre's numbers than the injuries. I am surprised anyone could chalk it all up to injuries given Green Bay's multiple "come from behind" performances early in the year that still fell short. The vast bulk of Favre's numbers in those first few games came against prevent defenses when there was almost no DL pressure.

The OL play has definitely been a factor in GB's poor offensive play -- as has the loss of skill players. Favre had Javon Walker for less than 1 full game. He's the only guy on this team who could stretch the field for Favre. Driver is a possession WR, not a big, deep speed guy. Ferguson is crap. The guy does not deserve to be a starting WR. To think that we passed up Chris Chambers to draft this POS.Unfortunately, I had to suffer through 3 of these late-game almost-comebacks....in person...

 

[Tough As Nails]

he had all his weapons except Walker when he and the running game were running for their lives early in the season.

You can trace Favre's poor games back to weeks 1-3 - and you can attribute the vast majority of his problems to the poor OL play.

The last three-four weeks are not the entire problem - it is the WHOLE season.

edit - and I would argue BOTH RB injuries (Davenport and Green) are attributable to poor OL play. Esp. Green - he was playing poorly before finally getting injured - just as he plays poorly every year he has OL problems.

For a staffer, I would hope you would know more than that. There is no way you can tell anyone on the board that Favre hasn't been hurt by injuries to Walker, Ferguson, Murphy, and Bubba Franks.

I didn't say he hasn't been hurt by those things - staff or not is irrelevent. If he hadn't had all the injuries, MAYBE he wouldn;t look so bad right now. But the injuries to Walker and Green (and all the other injuries) are secondary to the poor OL play for Favre. Heck, he didn't NEED Walker when he was on fire with Driver two years ago.Get rid of that short term memory - Franks has been gone for exactly one week - that injury is a symptom not a cause of an imploding team.

Unless you are genuinely arguing that Favre's been gold since week one and it was only the injuries that have killed him, you have to acknowledge the HORRID OL play - and, IMO, as a staffer - it is the OL play WAY WAY more than injuries. I have seen Favre put up Pro Bowl seasons with just as bad injuries to the Pack - but he had decent OL play.

Franks hasn't been close to 100% for weeks and the Packers have NEVER had this many injuries to the skill positions since Favre took over. You may want to go ask some of the experts that follow the NFL and ask them if Favre has been impacted by the injuries to his weapons. Also, the offensive line play hasn't been as horrid as you claim. Favre has only been sacked 14 times and the line has played better recently.

"Get rid of that short term memory - Franks has been gone for exactly one week - that injury is a symptom not a cause of an imploding team."

Short term memory? You may actually need to get a memory. Franks missed weeks 3 and 4 and played one snap during week #5.

OK...you say it is the injuries to all the weapons. Then explain week 1...everybody healthy...3 points against the Lions. Explain a week 2 loss at home to a bad Browns team. Explain a 16 point effort and a loss against the Buccaneers at home in week 3. Even when the Pack had skill position guys healthy...they still got beat. Injuries are not an excuse. Every team in the league has injuries. The Patriots have probably been banged up worse than the Packers. They are right in the hunt. The Eagles have been decimated by injuries and they beat the Packers.

"Even when the Pack had skill position guys healthy...they still got beat."Yes they did for the first week.

You clowns just keep believing that injuries to the skill positions haven't hurt Favre and the Packers.

Of course they hurt. Nobody is saying they don't. But the Packers were a bad team with or without those guys. Everybody healthy...I'd give them 6-10, maaaaybe 7-9 on the season. Those guys not healthy...I think they'll end up 5-11. So injuries cost them a game or two. But it didn't cost them a shot at the Super Bowl or even a shot at the North title this season. They are a bad team. Period. The lack of OL depth, the poor run defense, the penalties, the turnovers, Favre's interceptions, etc. All of those rank at or above the injuries.

 

[Sabertooth]

He has no real RB.. He lost a stud WR..  I think he's doing alright given what he lost..  I doubt this would be an issue if he had his other weapons..  Take almost any other QB's weapons away and I bet they struggle..

he went into the year knowing what he had on the OL. The RB losses and HIS problems stem entirely from the OL problems - not the loss of Walker and Green.

Fixed

re-fixed. Every team suffers injuries.

Not like that though. Give me a break. Are you saying that everybody is starting guys who weren't on their rosters at the beginning of the season?

 

[Sabertooth]

he had all his weapons except Walker when he and the running game were running for their lives early in the season.

You can trace Favre's poor games back to weeks 1-3 - and you can attribute the vast majority of his problems to the poor OL play.

The last three-four weeks are not the entire problem - it is the WHOLE season.

edit - and I would argue BOTH RB injuries (Davenport and Green) are attributable to poor OL play.  Esp. Green - he was playing poorly before finally getting injured - just as he plays poorly every year he has OL problems.

For a staffer, I would hope you would know more than that. There is no way you can tell anyone on the board that Favre hasn't been hurt by injuries to Walker, Ferguson, Murphy, and Bubba Franks.

I didn't say he hasn't been hurt by those things - staff or not is irrelevent. If he hadn't had all the injuries, MAYBE he wouldn;t look so bad right now. But the injuries to Walker and Green (and all the other injuries) are secondary to the poor OL play for Favre. Heck, he didn't NEED Walker when he was on fire with Driver two years ago.Get rid of that short term memory - Franks has been gone for exactly one week - that injury is a symptom not a cause of an imploding team.

Unless you are genuinely arguing that Favre's been gold since week one and it was only the injuries that have killed him, you have to acknowledge the HORRID OL play - and, IMO, as a staffer - it is the OL play WAY WAY more than injuries. I have seen Favre put up Pro Bowl seasons with just as bad injuries to the Pack - but he had decent OL play.

Franks hasn't been close to 100% for weeks and the Packers have NEVER had this many injuries to the skill positions since Favre took over. You may want to go ask some of the experts that follow the NFL and ask them if Favre has been impacted by the injuries to his weapons. Also, the offensive line play hasn't been as horrid as you claim. Favre has only been sacked 14 times and the line has played better recently.

"Get rid of that short term memory - Franks has been gone for exactly one week - that injury is a symptom not a cause of an imploding team."

Short term memory? You may actually need to get a memory. Franks missed weeks 3 and 4 and played one snap during week #5.

OK...you say it is the injuries to all the weapons. Then explain week 1...everybody healthy...3 points against the Lions. Explain a week 2 loss at home to a bad Browns team. Explain a 16 point effort and a loss against the Buccaneers at home in week 3. Even when the Pack had skill position guys healthy...they still got beat. Injuries are not an excuse. Every team in the league has injuries. The Patriots have probably been banged up worse than the Packers. They are right in the hunt. The Eagles have been decimated by injuries and they beat the Packers.

Week 1: Lost Walker in that game after 2 catches. Line play was a big part of this loss.Week 2: Browns game. Mark Roman misses a tight end who then proceeds to score from about 75 yards out. Defense can't stop the Browns at the end of the game.

Week 3: Bucs got so many lucky breaks and non calls in that game it wasn't even funny.

As for the rest, I don't think anybody would argue that the Packers are anywhere near as good as the Pats. The Eagles did beat the Packers but how have the been decimated? McNabb? That's one guy. Who else?

 

[Sabertooth]

he had all his weapons except Walker when he and the running game were running for their lives early in the season.

You can trace Favre's poor games back to weeks 1-3 - and you can attribute the vast majority of his problems to the poor OL play.

The last three-four weeks are not the entire problem - it is the WHOLE season.

edit - and I would argue BOTH RB injuries (Davenport and Green) are attributable to poor OL play.  Esp. Green - he was playing poorly before finally getting injured - just as he plays poorly every year he has OL problems.

For a staffer, I would hope you would know more than that. There is no way you can tell anyone on the board that Favre hasn't been hurt by injuries to Walker, Ferguson, Murphy, and Bubba Franks.

I didn't say he hasn't been hurt by those things - staff or not is irrelevent. If he hadn't had all the injuries, MAYBE he wouldn;t look so bad right now. But the injuries to Walker and Green (and all the other injuries) are secondary to the poor OL play for Favre. Heck, he didn't NEED Walker when he was on fire with Driver two years ago.Get rid of that short term memory - Franks has been gone for exactly one week - that injury is a symptom not a cause of an imploding team.

Unless you are genuinely arguing that Favre's been gold since week one and it was only the injuries that have killed him, you have to acknowledge the HORRID OL play - and, IMO, as a staffer - it is the OL play WAY WAY more than injuries. I have seen Favre put up Pro Bowl seasons with just as bad injuries to the Pack - but he had decent OL play.

Franks hasn't been close to 100% for weeks and the Packers have NEVER had this many injuries to the skill positions since Favre took over. You may want to go ask some of the experts that follow the NFL and ask them if Favre has been impacted by the injuries to his weapons. Also, the offensive line play hasn't been as horrid as you claim. Favre has only been sacked 14 times and the line has played better recently.

"Get rid of that short term memory - Franks has been gone for exactly one week - that injury is a symptom not a cause of an imploding team."

Short term memory? You may actually need to get a memory. Franks missed weeks 3 and 4 and played one snap during week #5.

OK...you say it is the injuries to all the weapons. Then explain week 1...everybody healthy...3 points against the Lions. Explain a week 2 loss at home to a bad Browns team. Explain a 16 point effort and a loss against the Buccaneers at home in week 3. Even when the Pack had skill position guys healthy...they still got beat. Injuries are not an excuse. Every team in the league has injuries. The Patriots have probably been banged up worse than the Packers. They are right in the hunt. The Eagles have been decimated by injuries and they beat the Packers.

"Even when the Pack had skill position guys healthy...they still got beat."Yes they did for the first week.

You clowns just keep believing that injuries to the skill positions haven't hurt Favre and the Packers.

Of course they hurt. Nobody is saying they don't. But the Packers were a bad team with or without those guys. Everybody healthy...I'd give them 6-10, maaaaybe 7-9 on the season. Those guys not healthy...I think they'll end up 5-11. So injuries cost them a game or two. But it didn't cost them a shot at the Super Bowl or even a shot at the North title this season. They are a bad team. Period. The lack of OL depth, the poor run defense, the penalties, the turnovers, Favre's interceptions, etc. All of those rank at or above the injuries.

I could agree with this. But the fact of the matter is, this thread is about Brett Favre and I think he could be having a normal "Favre" year if he had some NFL caliber wideouts with names other than Driver.

 

[Marc Levin]

I think he could be having a normal "Favre" year if he had some NFL caliber wideouts with names other than Driver.

You mean like 2002 when Favre had 3700 yards and 27 TDs with Driver as his main receiving threat?

 

[Verbal Kint]

Over the last 3 weeks he has 1 TD, 5 INTs and 3 fumbles, and averaging 200 yards/game. Stellar.

 

[Verbal Kint]

Since you have been a member of this discussion for almost three (3) weeks, I will cut you some slack. I assume you are attempting to create discussion. Your "feeling" is one of the most ridicules I have heard. Favre is Favre !!

Like I said, many will disagree. I know there's alot of man-love for Favre around here, and I knew the risks for posting this without anything concrete to back it up. But past results are not always a good indicator of future performance. I'm just throwing a hypothesis out there that I see some subtle changes in the intangibles that may result in Favre going off a cliff. I personally see his yardage declining slightly, but only 20 TDs and +20 INTs.

Now at 19 TDs and 24INTs

 

[Verbal Kint]

Incidentally, Gannon's passer rating for 2003 was 73.5. Favre's 2005 rating is 79.3. Hmmm.

Favre's updated passer rating 73.1

 

[Verbal Kint]

Since you have been a member of this discussion for almost three (3) weeks, I will cut you some slack. I assume you are attempting to create discussion. Your "feeling" is one of the most ridicules I have heard. Favre is Favre !!

Like I said, many will disagree. I know there's alot of man-love for Favre around here, and I knew the risks for posting this without anything concrete to back it up. But past results are not always a good indicator of future performance. I'm just throwing a hypothesis out there that I see some subtle changes in the intangibles that may result in Favre going off a cliff. I personally see his yardage declining slightly, but only 20 TDs and +20 INTs.

Now at 19 TDs and 24INTs

Now at 19 TDs and 28 INTs. I guess I wasn't so far off after all. Passer rating is 70.1 compared to Gannon's 73. 5

 

[Hamstring]

Looks like Favre's is going to catch Orton in the QB rating race.

 

[Houston turmOiler]

If only I had paid as much attention to this thread as the "Convince me Steve Smith is not going to have a huge year" thread I'd probably have won my league. Favre single-handedly ruined my team...Damn, next season's a long way away...

 

[Hamstring]

Marino had some garbage teams, but he never got this bad.

 

[IndyHavoc]

I need to go back and re-read the original thread (I know I read this before), but patting yourself on the back for this is kinda weak, imo. It's one thing to say, I think Favre will stink, but there was no way to know how bad injuries would hit this team.I don't think that Favre is everything that he was in the past, but he certainly didn't "implode" by himself. Only 1 NFL-capable WR on the team, on the 5th RB (picked up as a practice team cut from KC), line problems. /shrug.The result is a correct prediction, but I don't feel bad about drafting him and seeing what he was still putting up for the first 4 or 5 weks of the season. Honestly, the emergence of Gado killed Favre's FF season. Since Sherman realized that he can punch/pile it in on the ground in the red zone, I think Favre has had 1 TD pass. Well, not counting the 4 or 5 that driver et. al have dropped Favre cost me a playoff run x2, but I certainly don't put the blame squarely on his shoulders. It's on GB as a team, and the injury whammy.

 

[Jason Wood]

I need to go back and re-read the original thread (I know I read this before), but patting yourself on the back for this is kinda weak, imo. It's one thing to say, I think Favre will stink, but there was no way to know how bad injuries would hit this team.

I don't think that Favre is everything that he was in the past, but he certainly didn't "implode" by himself. Only 1 NFL-capable WR on the team, on the 5th RB (picked up as a practice team cut from KC), line problems. /shrug.

The result is a correct prediction, but I don't feel bad about drafting him and seeing what he was still putting up for the first 4 or 5 weks of the season. Honestly, the emergence of Gado killed Favre's FF season. Since Sherman realized that he can punch/pile it in on the ground in the red zone, I think Favre has had 1 TD pass. Well, not counting the 4 or 5 that driver et. al have dropped

Favre cost me a playoff run x2, but I certainly don't put the blame squarely on his shoulders. It's on GB as a team, and the injury whammy.

I've been a Favre apologist at times [relative to his place in history], but honestly I see no way we can objectively say his play this year [particularly this last month] is a byproduct of injuries exclusively. If we ARE using that as a rationale, it adds fuel to the fire of his critics who maintain that Favre is given his own sets of rules to live by. Any other QB throws 10 INTs and 0 TDs in a month long stretch and they're RIPPED. For Favre it's "Woe is Brett, the poor guy is just out there trying to win games single handedly."Baffling moment of this past weekend...

Coming back from half-time, Sam Rosen and Bill Maas are setting up the 2nd half and Rosen says, "Boy oh boy, Brett Favre really brought his "A" game today." At that point, Favre has something like 150 yards passing, 0 TDs and 1 INT. That's his "A" game at this point? We've lowered the bar that far where we applaud his efforts with a -1 turnover half?

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

One thing is clear. Favre stopped giving a crap this season about four games ago or so. Clearly, the chuck and duck has become his bread and butter. If the season, or a single game meant something, it might be different.As for this weekend, two missed field goals by Longwell go unnoticed, and Favre is the one getting blasted. He played like crap, but consider this: Longwell makes the first two tries, and Favre's long pass to Driver late sets up a chance for Longwell to take the lead.....

 

[IndyHavoc]

I need to go back and re-read the original thread (I know I read this before), but patting yourself on the back for this is kinda weak, imo.  It's one thing to say, I think Favre will stink, but there was no way to know how bad injuries would hit this team.

I don't think that Favre is everything that he was in the past, but he certainly didn't "implode" by himself.  Only 1 NFL-capable WR on the team, on the 5th RB (picked up as a practice team cut from KC), line problems.  /shrug.

The result is a correct prediction, but I don't feel bad about drafting him and seeing what he was still putting up for the first 4 or 5 weks of the season.  Honestly, the emergence of Gado killed Favre's FF season.  Since Sherman realized that he can punch/pile it in on the ground in the red zone, I think Favre has had 1 TD pass.  Well, not counting the 4 or 5 that driver et. al have dropped

Favre cost me a playoff run x2, but I certainly don't put the blame squarely on his shoulders.  It's on GB as a team, and the injury whammy.

I've been a Favre apologist at times [relative to his place in history], but honestly I see no way we can objectively say his play this year [particularly this last month] is a byproduct of injuries exclusively. If we ARE using that as a rationale, it adds fuel to the fire of his critics who maintain that Favre is given his own sets of rules to live by. Any other QB throws 10 INTs and 0 TDs in a month long stretch and they're RIPPED. For Favre it's "Woe is Brett, the poor guy is just out there trying to win games single handedly."Baffling moment of this past weekend...

Coming back from half-time, Sam Rosen and Bill Maas are setting up the 2nd half and Rosen says, "Boy oh boy, Brett Favre really brought his "A" game today." At that point, Favre has something like 150 yards passing, 0 TDs and 1 INT. That's his "A" game at this point? We've lowered the bar that far where we applaud his efforts with a -1 turnover half?

Absolutely agree with judging this last month. There were at least 4 or 5 TD catches broken-up/dropped (some just flat out good defensive plays, but most plays that good WR's come down with). Beginning of the year, it was like watching the Colts last year (many, many red-zone pass plays). Now, it seems like the only time Favre throws to the end-zone is 20-25 yrds out (not a high percentage play).Anyway, I guess my stand on the whole issue is split. He was playing very well, I thought, through about Week6-8. Very good throws, very good mobility, etc. Since then it's slowly been gettign worse (as has the supporting cast). /shrug, I just don't know if we've ever SEEN a QB with this poor of a set of supporting skill positions, so saying "..Any other QB throws 10 INTs and 0 TDs in a month long stretch and they're RIPPED," I still feel, while not being totally unfair, isn't exactly the correct way to look at it.

I'm an Indy and Rams fan, never had Favre on my team before this year. He's not my favorite guy, but when I watch some of the throws he still can make I can't help but like him as a QB. But, as has been said time and again, you take the good with the bad. He locks onto a route/reciever and just won't take "no" for an answer sometimes. Don't know if it's frustration, pride, or just pig-headedness...he definitely needs to throw more balls away when that happens. But watching the last month of games, can't say how frustrated I am with the WR corps left there in GB. Gods, the # of catchable balls dropped, or just easily knocked out/away is staggering.

But, I readily admit, 10 ints : 0 TD's...it just can't be ignored.

 

[Verbal Kint]

I need to go back and re-read the original thread (I know I read this before), but patting yourself on the back for this is kinda weak, imo. It's one thing to say, I think Favre will stink, but there was no way to know how bad injuries would hit this team.

I agree 100%, and normally I wouldn't have even bumped the thread, but I was getting trashed almost universally when I started this thread, so I felt like I needed to defend myself a little bit.

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

Another intersting thing to me is that Favre is still sixth in the league in passing yardage, and is completing 61% of his passes.The TDs are missing, and he's throwing more interceptions. A few thoughts on this:With Walker out, Favre has to make up for about 12 touchdowns at the WR position. The coaching staff love affair has led to Robert Ferguson's big payday, yet the guy has only offered 3 touchdowns on the season. <b>3</b>. That's a huge difference, and the loss of Walker should not be understated. So now he's still 9 touchdowns down from last season. Antonio Chatman, who has no business lining up at WR in the NFL, somehow hauls in 3 TDs of his own. Who's going to get the other 6, especially from Walker's big play specialty variety? Andrae Thurman?They have no deep threat, and worse, their running game is horrible. Opposing defenses have no reason to respect it, and it appears that Favre lost all interest by mid-season. Bottom line. Call it excuses, call it "Favre's own set of rules," or whatever you want. But losing your top three running backs (Green, Davenport, Gado) 2 of your top four wide receivers (Walker, Murphy), your starting tight end and NOW his backup (Franks, Martin) and not being able to replace both of the guards you lost. Sorry, but that's huge. Favre doesn't go from last year's numbers to this year's simply because he just plain sucks now. The interceptions are up for a couple of reasons:1. No running game. Gado was becoming the answer, then got hurt. They suck at running the football, hence defenses are on Favre faster.2. Only 1 legit WR, Driver. This wasn't as much a problem in the past because Green and Franks could help take the pressure off. They aren't there this season either. Ferguson is a candy ###, and Chatman just isn't NFL quality.3. They udnerestimated the loss of Wahle and Rivera. Not that they could've changed it. Sherman's GM blunders made it almost impossible to resign these guys. To top that off, their Center, Mike Flanagan had a sports hernia. He's tried to play through it, but it just hasn't worked. Essentially, they're missing 3/5 of last year's O line. 4. Favre stopped giving a crap halfway through the season. I think that's apparent.