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I had a heart attack this weekend... (1 Viewer)

Senor Schmutzig

Footballguy
I'm 54 years old, 6'2", 240 lb. I walk 4 miles daily and have been doing that for the past 5+ years. My diet is good, not great. I eat all of the right things (fruits, veggies, fiber, lean meats, etc.), but I also eat plenty of bad ones (red meat, carbs, sweets, etc). I don't smoke and drink moderately ie. 4-5 drinks/week.

My last blood panel I took a few months ago showed elevated cholesterol and triglycerides, but not crazy high. At the advice of my PCP (who also happens to be a cardiologist), I started taking a statin about 3 months ago.

While I can't say I never thought about the possibility of having a heart attack at some point, I certainly didn't think it was going to happen when I was 54.

I start every morning with the 4-mile walk. It usually takes 1 hour and 10 minutes. On Friday, I worked from home, so I set out as usual, around 6:30a. About 15 minutes in, I started feeling a slight pain in my upper left chest area. It wasn't too painful, maybe a 3 out of 10 on my pain scale. Noticeable but not concerning. I thought I may have slept wrong and irritated a muscle, so I didn't think about it too much. About 40 minutes through the walk, I stopped at a bench along the water to have a seat and do my daily Wordle. Once I started going again, I didn't feel the pain anymore. That was it, so I thought.

Saturday morning, I did the same thing. I woke up, although I slept in a little bit and didn't leave until around 7:30a or so. At about the same time along my walk, I noticed the pain flare up again. Same spot, same intensity. Same duration, for the most part. I thought it was strange, but after it went away at about the same time as the day before, I didn't think much about it.

Saturday evening, my wife and I headed over to our friend's wine bar. It was their grand opening, and since we have been helping them with the business side of things to get it started, we planned on working that night to help things run smoothly. My wife and I were there for about 6 hours and left around midnight. Probably around 11:45p, while I was sitting and waiting for my wife to finish up, I started getting those same chest pains again. Plus I was hot (it was pretty warm and humid in Miami for this time of year) and starting to get a little cranky because I was getting pretty tired. It was past my bedtime! We started walking to the car, and the pain continued. Again, it had a similar intensity, maybe closer to a 4/10. We hopped in the car and started driving home, and the pain subsided. It probably lasted 20 minutes or so total At this point, my concern level started rising a bit as it was the third time in two days. I sensed something wasn't right but as a typical guy, I was brushing it off somewhat, albeit with a slightly higher anxiety level attached to it.

After I got home, I went upstairs to the bedroom to change clothes and lay on the bed. A few minutes later, my wife came upstairs, and we talked about how the night had gone. For some reason, she asked if I was feeling alright, and I told her I was having some slight chest pains. Maybe she sensed something was off? Without hesitation, she said, "We are going to the ER". I hemmed and hawed for about a minute before deciding something wasn't right. I got dressed, and off we went. The local ER is only about 10 minutes from our house. I walked in upon arrival (it wasn't busy) and mentioned to the person at the desk I was having chest pains. Within 2-3 minutes, I was hooked up to an EKG in one of the examination rooms. Shortly after that, the technician told me I was having a heart attack. I was a little shocked but calm. It certainly wasn't what I thought happened when someone was having a heart attack. I wasn't in a crazy amount of pain or felt the need to clutch my chest like you see on TV or in movies.

Five minutes later, I was being prepped for surgery, and 4-5 people were swarming around, getting me ready and shaving my wrists, shaving my groin area, drawing blood, and asking health questions. The on-call cardiologist and his team were also called in (thank god it was the middle of the night and not a high-traffic time in Miami). It was quite a site to see the choreography of everyone working together. After about 10 minutes, they wheeled me into the operating room, where I was further prepped. About 10 minutes later, the surgeon showed up, explained what he would do, asked if I understood, ensured I agreed to the procedure, and off we went.

I ended up getting three stents inserted. Two were on the right side and one on the left. Thankfully, the widowmaker (left anterior descending) LAD artery was "only" 50% blocked; otherwise, I probably would not have made it to the operating table. The two on the right that received stents were 76% and 100% blocked. The doctor went up through my right wrist versus having to go up through the pelvic artery (hence the reason they had to shave there also) , and I was awake through the whole process. It probably took 45 to 60 minutes tops.

I spent all of Sunday in the hospital for recovery and was discharged earlier today (Monday). I feel like nothing happened despite two small needle holes on the inside of my elbows where the IVs were connected and one small hole, almost imperceptible, on my right wrist where the catheter and balloon were inserted. It's truly amazing to think about the technology that exists to eliminate all three blockages, insert the stents, and allow me to come home the day after what could have been a fatal problem.

Going forward, I'm going to have to change my diet considerably. The doctor mentioned that if I hadn't walked as much as I do, this would have happened earlier as it's most likely genetic that the arteries were clogged as much as they were at such a young age. As mentioned earlier, my diet isn't bad; however, I'm going to have to severely reduce red meat consumption, salt intake, high-sugar items, etc. That's going to be a tough one as my wife and I both love cooking, trying new restaurants and just enjoy food. It's one of our passions that we will just have to enjoy differently now. I'm going from having to take one prescription per night (that I frequently forgot about) to taking five. I'm adding a higher dosage of Lipitor, multiple blood thinners, anti-coagulants, and a beta-blocker.

I typed all of this out to remind my fellow FBG'ers that these things are possible at an early age, at ANY age, and that you need to take care of your body. Even if you think you are, when you are pre-disposed to something, whether you know it or not, you may have negative results that you aren't expecting. I'm thankful that I am here and am blessed that I can continue with my life. My father passed away the day before Thanksgiving last year (2024), and damn, that would have sucked to have followed him to the grave only two short months afterward. He was 79 and had numerous other health issues that I have been able to avoid, so hopefully, I'm good for now. It took 54 years for my arteries to get clogged as much as they were, so hopefully, these stents are suitable for at least another 54, lol. I was thinking earlier today that I have already experienced cancer (skin cancer) and a heart attack at a relatively young age but I have so much more life to live. I owe it to myself, my wife, my son, and my mom to ensure that I do everything possible to allow for a good life for at least 25-30 more years. I won't let all of my hard-earned retirement money go to waste!

After my father passed, I have been thinking about how I can FIRE earlier (Financial Independence, Retire Early) so this incident may move up that projected timeframe a bit.

Alright, that's it. Thanks for listening. If you have any questions, fire away!
 
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Glad that you are OK and that your wife's instincts were correct. I wish you a speedy recovery.

I'm a medical journalist who covers cardiology. Everything you said in your "going forward" paragraph is absolutely spot on.

Heart disease is a function of both genetics and lifestyle, and we know much more about the former than we used to because we have been able to identify a bunch of different gene variants that are linked with increased risk for heart disease. Fortunately, we have learned in the last decade that people who have bad genetics and good lifestyle have similar and often better outcomes vs. people who have good genetics and bad lifestyle, and way better outcomes than people who have bad genetics and moderate or bad lifestyle. In other words, genetics is not destiny.

If they haven't already, your close blood relatives -- siblings, children, etc -- should undergo genetic screening for heart disease, because if you have heart disease before retirement age, the same could happen to them.
 
your close blood relatives -- siblings, children, etc -- should undergo genetic screening for heart disease, because if you have heart disease before retirement age, the same could happen to them.
This, 100%.

My wife's family has a history of heart disease despite having healthy lifestyles. So much so that even the 20 somethings who do Crossfit and look the pinnacle of health are now on Lipator due to blood work.
 
I'm 54 years old, 6'2", 240 lb. I walk 4 miles daily and have been doing that for the past 5+ years. My diet is good, not great. I eat all of the right things (fruits, veggies, fiber, lean meats, etc.), but I also eat plenty of bad ones (red meat, carbs, sweets, etc). I don't smoke and drink moderately ie. 4-5 drinks/week.

My last blood panel I took a few months ago showed elevated cholesterol and triglycerides, but not crazy high. At the advice of my PCP (who also happens to be a cardiologist), I started taking a statin about 3 months ago.

While I can't say I never thought about the possibility of having a heart attack at some point, I certainly didn't think it was going to happen when I was 54.

I start every morning with the 4-mile walk. It usually takes 1 hour and 10 minutes. On Friday, I worked from home, so I set out as usual, around 6:30a. About 15 minutes in, I started feeling a slight pain in my upper left chest area. It wasn't too painful, maybe a 3 out of 10 on my pain scale. Noticeable but not concerning. I thought I may have slept wrong and irritated a muscle, so I didn't think about it too much. About 40 minutes through the walk, I stopped at a bench along the water to have a seat and do my daily Wordle. Once I started going again, I didn't feel the pain anymore. That was it, so I thought.

Saturday morning, I did the same thing. I woke up, although I slept in a little bit and didn't leave until around 7:30a or so. At about the same time along my walk, I noticed the pain flare up again. Same spot, same intensity. Same duration, for the most part. I thought it was strange, but after it went away at about the same time as the day before, I didn't think much about it.

Saturday evening, my wife and I headed over to our friend's wine bar. It was their grand opening, and since we have been helping them with the business side of things to get it started, we planned on working that night to help things run smoothly. My wife and I were there for about 6 hours and left around midnight. Probably around 11:45p, while I was sitting and waiting for my wife to finish up, I started getting those same chest pains again. Plus I was hot (it was pretty warm and humid in Miami for this time of year) and starting to get a little cranky because I was getting pretty tired. It was past my bedtime! We started walking to the car, and the pain continued. Again, it had a similar intensity, maybe closer to a 4/10. We hopped in the car and started driving home, and the pain subsided. It probably lasted 20 minutes or so total At this point, my concern level started rising a bit as it was the third time in two days. I sensed something wasn't right but as a typical guy, I was brushing it off somewhat, albeit with a slightly higher anxiety level attached to it.

After I got home, I went upstairs to the bedroom to change clothes and lay on the bed. A few minutes later, my wife came upstairs, and we talked about how the night had gone. For some reason, she asked if I was feeling alright, and I told her I was having some slight chest pains. Maybe she sensed something was off? Without hesitation, she said, "We are going to the ER". I hemmed and hawed for about a minute before deciding something wasn't right. I got dressed, and off we went. The local ER is only about 10 minutes from our house. I walked in upon arrival (it wasn't busy) and mentioned to the person at the desk I was having chest pains. Within 2-3 minutes, I was hooked up to an EKG in one of the examination rooms. Shortly after that, the technician told me I was having a heart attack. I was a little shocked but calm. It certainly wasn't what I thought happened when someone was having a heart attack. I wasn't in a crazy amount of pain or felt the need to clutch my chest like you see on TV or in movies.

Five minutes later, I was being prepped for surgery, and 4-5 people were swarming around, getting me ready and shaving my wrists, shaving my groin area, drawing blood, and asking health questions. The on-call cardiologist and his team were also called in (thank god it was the middle of the night and not a high-traffic time in Miami). It was quite a site to see the choreography of everyone working together. After about 10 minutes, they wheeled me into the operating room, where I was further prepped. About 10 minutes later, the surgeon showed up, explained what he would do, asked if I understood, ensured I agreed to the procedure, and off we went.

I ended up getting three stents inserted. Two were on the right side and one on the left. Thankfully, the widowmaker (left anterior descending) LAD artery was "only" 50% blocked; otherwise, I probably would not have made it to the operating table. The two on the right that received stents were 76% and 100% blocked. The doctor went up through my right wrist versus having to go up through the pelvic artery (hence the reason they had to shave there also) , and I was awake through the whole process. It probably took 45 to 60 minutes tops.

I spent all of Sunday in the hospital for recovery and was discharged earlier today (Monday). I feel like nothing happened despite two small needle holes on the inside of my elbows where the IVs were connected and one small hole, almost imperceptible, on my right wrist where the catheter and balloon were inserted. It's truly amazing to think about the technology that exists to eliminate all three blockages, insert the stents, and allow me to come home the day after what could have been a fatal problem.

Going forward, I'm going to have to change my diet considerably. The doctor mentioned that if I hadn't walked as much as I do, this would have happened earlier as it's most likely genetic that the arteries were clogged as much as they were at such a young age. As mentioned earlier, my diet isn't bad; however, I'm going to have to severely reduce red meat consumption, salt intake, high-sugar items, etc. That's going to be a tough one as my wife and I both love cooking, trying new restaurants and just enjoy food. It's one of our passions that we will just have to enjoy differently now. I'm going from having to take one prescription per night (that I frequently forgot about) to taking five. I'm adding a higher dosage of Lipitor, multiple blood thinners, anti-coagulants, and a beta-blocker.

I typed all of this out to remind my fellow FBG'ers that these things are possible at an early age, at ANY age, and that you need to take care of your body. Even if you think you are, when you are pre-disposed to something, whether you know it or not, you may have negative results that you aren't expecting. I'm thankful that I am here and am blessed that I can continue with my life. My father passed away the day before Thanksgiving last year (2024), and damn, that would have sucked to have followed him to the grave only two short months afterward. He was 79 and had numerous other health issues that I have been able to avoid, so hopefully, I'm good for now. It took 54 years for my arteries to get clogged as much as they were, so hopefully, these stents are suitable for at least another 54, lol. I was thinking earlier today that I have already experienced cancer (skin cancer) and a heart attack at a relatively young age but I have so much more life to live. I owe it to myself, my wife, my son, and my mom to ensure that I do everything possible to allow for a good life for at least 25-30 more years. I won't let all of my hard-earned retirement money go to waste!

After my father passed, I have been thinking about how I can FIRE earlier (Financial Independence, Retire Early) so this incident may move up that projected timeframe a bit.

Alright, that's it. Thanks for listening. If you have any questions, fire away!
Very scary and very glad to hear you’re okay. I’ve had some issues with the heart recently, and I’m on a low dose statin and propanol. Crazy that that much blockage can be there without knowing beforehand.

I reminder to everyone, it’s heart healthy month and you can get a calcium scan that is not evasive and will only take 5 minutes of your time and cost you $100. It’s well worth it in my opinion.
 
Thanks for sharing. Scary stuff. So important to know what conditions run in our family so we can have specific issues on radar. You sound very active and not overly obese like most of our country. Scary stuff.
 
Glad you're ok! And really appreciate you sharing, as it may change how I (and others on here) would interpret similar symptoms.

I hope you don't mind if I ask some questions...almost everything you said describes me as well (age, amount of walking, eating lots of good stuff but plenty of bad stuff as well, high cholesterol in recent doctors visits, recently started statins, weight relative to height), other than you being way taller than me (and me drinking a bit less and eating a relatively low carb but high salt/fat diet).

How did your wife know/sense that it was time to go to the hospital when she did, vs. whatever was going on the previous few days?
What was different about the actual heart attack symptoms vs. whatever happened during your walks (which I assume was a precursor to the heart attack)?
Did the doctors give you any sense that there was anything that could have been checked over the past few years that would have tipped them off that this was imminent?
 
close call……may i ask, family history? prior to 3 months when you started meds, take any other meds for BP or Cholesterol? i’m asking because i have family history and i’ve been taking BP meds and lipitor for close to 30 years now, i’m a bit older than you. is this out of the blue family wise?

also, to lighten the mood, you’d be a perfect fit for the fbg cake magic baseball league! what with the heart attack, hospitalization and all. ;)
 
Glad you're still around and hopefully it does get you to do the things that will keep you around for years to come. My Dad had a heart attack in his early 40's and that was my eye opener to treat my body better.
 
Thank you for sharing your story. :thanks:

So glad you listened to your wife and are around to share it.

My wife (now ex) basically saved me about 25 years ago when I had a pulmonary embolism but was too stubborn to admit anything serious was wrong with me. She made me go the hospital and get immediate treatment.

But enough about me. Enjoy the next 54 years!
 
Glad you are OK!
  • My good friend in seemlingly perfect health had a heart attack at age 34. He was on a jog with his wife and she did mouth to mouth and saved him. Former military, atlhete, great condition, probably 6' 165 pounds.
  • My first boss out of college was a 32 year old vegetarian from India. Super skinny. He had a stroke eating lunch with us one day. Died instantly.
Point as you also suggested ... what we see on the outside is only part of the equation. Our bodies internals organs, blood vessels, etc can be in poor condition with little signaling there is a problem. I get bloodwork every 3-6 months now. Even if my insurance won't pay for it. it's surprisingly cheap if you tell your doc you want to pay out of pocket. Also, listen to the women folk in your life. They seem to have a better handle if something is serious. Us dudes are pros at saying everything is fine.
 
I don't want to hijack this thread at all but I to just got back from a three day stay at the hospital myself. What seemed like food poisoning and then the flu turned out to be a combination of gallbladder/pancreas/intestine issues. Going to have the gallbladder taken out soon.

I only say that because I want to reiterate what @Senor Schmutzig said about not being stubborn about heading to the hospital. This is my first trip EVER to the hospital and my wife knew something must really be up when I said Saturday morning that I wanted to go.

If things feel "off", don't blow it off.
 
when I had a pulmonary embolism but was too stubborn to admit anything serious was wrong with me. S
What were your symptoms?
Summary
So symptoms for me were sore calf (left in my case) for a few weeks, then shortness of breath as the clot moved into my lungs. This worsens as days go by to the point where I could barely walk up 5 steps without needing a break.


long version

Many weeks prior I had started noticing my left calf was always tight/constricted. Assumed i just aggravated it. That went on for a while, then I started having shortness of breath. Walk a flight of stairs and was winded. I was a goalie playing rec hockey at the time and was gassed after only a few saves or movements. Initially my doc thought I had late onset asthma or something. The breathing got worse, lasted for a few weeks i guess. Went golfing on a Saturday , rode a cart cause I knew I could walk it. Came home and was totally whipped. I was actually in decent shape back then. About 40 years old. Laid down. Wife said "you're an idiot. Go to the hospital"

I did. They quickly knew, based on my symptoms that I had a pulmonary embolism. Put me in ice for a few days. Fave me fragmin to quickly thin my blood. Said my heart was working so hard I was close to a heart attack.

been on warfarin ever since.

Ironically, that round of golf was one of my best ever. 😃


Testing showed i have something called factor 5 Leiden in my blood making me more susceptible to clotting.
 
Glad you are doing better.

Which brings up this question:

The doctor went up through my right wrist versus having to go up through the pelvic artery (hence the reason they had to shave there also)

Just how hairy are your wrists? I don't even think I have peach fuzz there.
For my angiogram they did the same. The nurse in the OR didn’t think the first nurse shaved my groin well enough, so he did it again. And When I had my heart ablation I had to shave my torso and down to my mid thigh
 
How did your wife know/sense that it was time to go to the hospital when she did, vs. whatever was going on the previous few days?
What was different about the actual heart attack symptoms vs. whatever happened during your walks (which I assume was a precursor to the heart attack)?
Did the doctors give you any sense that there was anything that could have been checked over the past few years that would have tipped them off that this was imminent?
I hadn’t told my wife about the pain I experienced when I was walking as I thought (hoped) it was nothing.

I asked her last night why she made that snap decision and I realized I had totally forgotten a bit more of the conversation. She had looked up “heart attack symptoms” on her phone and although I didn’t have most of the symptoms mentioned (shortness of breath, radiating pain down arm, nausea, dizziness) the concern of having the same chest pain was enough for her to realize that something wasn’t right.

There wasn’t any pending signs or discussions with my cardiologist in the past about a heart attack being imminent, however there isn’t any history on my dads side of the family of heart disease. I’m assuming that any genetic issues come from my moms side however it’s been much more difficult to track as the known history is not as clear.

I just had a conversation with my brother, who is 3 years younger, and we discussed recent blood panels with regards to cholesterol levels, HCL/LDL ratios, triglyceride levels etc. and his numbers were slightly lower than mine from my last blood test, but still elevated. I think it is giving him a little sense of caution about how he needs to deal with his own health going forward.
 
close call……may i ask, family history? prior to 3 months when you started meds, take any other meds for BP or Cholesterol? i’m asking because i have family history and i’ve been taking BP meds and lipitor for close to 30 years now, i’m a bit older than you. is this out of the blue family wise?

also, to lighten the mood, you’d be a perfect fit for the fbg cake magic baseball league! what with the heart attack, hospitalization and all. ;)
No, I wasn't taking any medication. When I had my previous blood test in 2022, I was prescribed a statin however I wasn't very diligent in taking it. I think I may have taken it until the prescription ran out and then never got it filled again. When I went back for a follow-up blood test last year and the numbers were similar, the doctor prescribed the statin again and I was more diligent in taking it each day.

My dad had a myriad of health problems (kidney/diabetic/morbidly obese, etc.) however he has always had health issues, none of which seem to have been passed along. I am considered pre-diabetic also but that has been going on for quite a few years and hasn't blown up into full diabetes where I require insulin.
 
Scary stuff buddy. Glad you are ok.

You said you had a physical a few months ago back. Did they do an EKG then? Would it have showed anything if they did?
I did have an EKG as part of my physical because 1) My Primary Care Physician (PCP) also happens to be a cardiologist and 2) As a result, the EKG is part of the routine physical for him

EKG's won't show arterial blockage. However, they can indicate if the heart is being stressed for any reason, which may result from a blockage. There weren't any warning signs at that time.
 
Glad you received the treatment you needed Senor, and are recovering quickly.

I suggest you ask about cardiac rehab, if not already enrolled. They will help optimize your lifestyle moving forward - both diet and exercise. You’ll need to drive down both your LDL and BMI.

I’d also ask about having a Lipoprotein a checked. It’s a blood test for a specific type of cholesterol that's implicated in early vascular disease. FTR, 54 isn’t actually considered early by all definitions of “young” heart attack, whose cut-offs range from 45-55 years old. This may just be a “normal” middle-aged heart attack. Anyway, if Lp a ends up being elevated, you may qualify for other lipid-lowering meds, as statins don’t work.

Lastly, for the rest of us, any chest pain (typically heaviness, or pressure) should be taken seriously, especially if it’s worse with exertion, get’s better with rest, and is associated with shortness of breath, nausea, or sweating. Classic angina is left-sided, and may radiate to the left jaw or arm as well. But you don’t need all that stuff, and should err on the side of caution when deciding to seek medical evaluation.
 
Is this because they wouldn't detect a situation like Senor Schmutzig's brewing, or due to cost/effort?
They wouldn’t detect his condition, which sounds like an ST segment elevation myocardial infarction.

Outside specific circumstances (screening for surgery in those with CV risk), no study has ever shown benefit from routine EKGs in asymptomatic individuals. Meanwhile, incidental EKG abnormalities are common, which can lead to downstream testing, that can be costly, and cause complications. So, risk exceeds benefit.
 
Is this because they wouldn't detect a situation like Senor Schmutzig's brewing, or due to cost/effort?
My guy always gives me an EKG during my physical. Probably to make more money.
Superfluous cardiac investigations are near the top of overperformed medical tests. There’s a group called Choosing Wisely that has attempted to create guidelines to cut down on such medical waste.

Annual EKGs for Low-risk Patients​

Recommendation​

Don't order annual electrocardiograms (EKGs) or any other cardiac screening for low-risk patients without symptoms.

  • There is little evidence that detection of coronary artery stenosis in asymptomatic patients at low-risk for coronary heart disease improves health outcomes.
  • False-positive tests are likely to lead to harm through unnecessary invasive procedures, over-treatment, and misdiagnosis.
  • Potential harms of this routine annual screening exceed the potential benefit.
 
Scary stuff buddy. Glad you are ok.

You said you had a physical a few months ago back. Did they do an EKG then? Would it have showed anything if they did?
I did have an EKG as part of my physical because 1) My Primary Care Physician (PCP) also happens to be a cardiologist and 2) As a result, the EKG is part of the routine physical for him

EKG's won't show arterial blockage. However, they can indicate if the heart is being stressed for any reason, which may result from a blockage. There weren't any warning signs at that time.
One other sidenote - I have a history of a leaky valve that has been there my whole life. It has never gotten worse or required any treatment however that may also be the reason I get an EKG at every physical.

It has never caused me problems as I have been a runner my whole life (from middle school forward). I have not run as much since I started walking daily; however, I thought running a little on Friday morning was a good idea when I first felt the chest pain, as I thought I could "wring it out" or something. LOL. I'm dumb. And my wife reminds me of that.
 
I forget the exact wording, but I saw a tweet from a doctor the other day that was something like:

"When I see a patient who says 'I didn't want to come in, but my wife is making me,' the chances that they have a severe and imminent health problem is nearly 100 percent."

IOW, trust your wife when she says go to the doctor.
 
I have been looking through the medical records included in my file online from the hospital, and AI (Claude.AI in this case) is immensely helpful when trying to understand some of the terminology used within those reports. I take out a chunk of the report that has me saying, "Huh?", throw it into the text box with a request to decipher in a style that would be understandable by someone without a medical degree, and BAM! A layman's explanation of what is in the report. Super helpful.
 
My dad's heart attack manifested as belching. He didn't feel well, so off to the hospital he went. Go early on and prevent something worse.
Strangely enough, I noticed the same during my walks. I was belching more than normal but didn't see anything online that connected the two, so I thought it was just a coincidence. Maybe not?
 
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