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I'd rather have Fitzgerald than Miles Austin by a lot. Calvin was underwhelming last year. I like Roddy but he was dead weight at the start of last season. I can understand sliding Fitz behind Moss and Wayne, but the others are a matter of preference.
It sounds like alot of people in here are advocating passing on Larry in the early third round. I just have a hard time envisioning a scenario where Fitzgerald doesn't have at least 1,200 yards and 8 TDs considering the amount of targets we should expect.If you think he's going to get injured because Leinart will hang him out to dry, so be it, but if he plays 16 healthy games he should see 160+ targets. With a career ypc of 13.5, an average catch percentage of 61%, and 59 TDs in 6 career seasons (not including his dominance in the playoffs) you're looking at 97 receptions, 1,300 yards, and 9 TDs if he plays to his career averages and sees that many targets, and those averages include his rookie season AND an injured season.I don't really think those target levels can be debated and with Boldin gone he'll likely set a career high in targets. 170 doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility. Larry Fitzgerald will be the focal point of Arizona's passing attack. Even if you think Leinart/Anderson will be dreadful, Fitz will still see a ton of passes. Of the players you listed I would only take Calvin Johnson and Randy Moss ahead of him. He's 4th on my board.
I hope you're watching Leinart tonight Fred. I am sure you'll be on the "Leinart sucks" bandwagon soon enough.
Count me in too.
Fred you're wrong. He was hurt and he did poorly when CPepp was under center. In 8 games with a rookie named Stafford he racked up 750 yds and 5 TDs...He works out to almost 1,500 yds and double digits and now Stafford is in year 2 and has tunnel vision for the guy. You are completely living in the past and Kurt Warner who is not here anymore. Join the 2010 crew and make Calvin Johnson a better target on your boards. That guy has the potential to break single season records for yds and possibly TDs...seriously. I do agree with you though that it is preference.
4th too
I wasn't. From the boxscore it didn't look that bad, though. I'm sure I'll see what you're talking about during the game, but Leinart passed for eight yards, Hightower lost a yard, and Leinart passed it short to Breaston who got two when they needed three. Next drive starts out with a Leinart incompletion, then a false start and another negative yardage run by Hightower puts them at third and sixteen. Again, it doesn't sound like Leinart was horrendous. Third drive, Hightower leads off by losing yards again, this time for -2 yards. Leinart then passes for 11 on 2nd and 12, and has an incomplete pass on third down. It seems to me like the biggest issues on those three series were the penalty and Hightower's three rushes for -4 yards. I'm sure I'll see how badly Leinart played when I watch the game on nfl replay, but it doesn't seem all that bad from the boxscore. Arizona Cardinals at 13:17 1-10-ARI 32 (13:17) 7-M.Leinart pass short left to 15-S.Breaston to ARZ 40 for 8 yards (30-J.McCourty) [22-V.Fuller]. 2-2-ARI 40 (12:44) 34-T.Hightower right guard to ARZ 39 for -1 yards (55-S.Tulloch; 94-S.Marks). 3-3-ARI 39 (12:02) (Shotgun) 7-M.Leinart pass short left to 15-S.Breaston to ARZ 41 for 2 yards (22-V.Fuller). 4-1-ARI 41 (11:37) (Punt formation) 5-B.Graham punts 46 yards to TEN 13, Center-82-M.Leach. 17-D.Williams to TEN 23 for 10 yards (31-J.Wright; 82-M.Leach). ---Arizona Cardinals at 10:01 1-10-ARI 35 (10:01) 7-M.Leinart pass incomplete short left to 14-S.Williams. 2-10-ARI 35 (9:57) PENALTY on ARZ-75-L.Brown, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at ARZ 35 - No Play. 2-15-ARI 30 (9:57) 34-T.Hightower up the middle to ARZ 29 for -1 yards (93-J.Babin; 92-W.Witherspoon). 3-16-ARI 29 (9:21) (Shotgun) 7-M.Leinart pass short middle to 83-S.Spach to ARZ 36 for 7 yards (24-C.Hope). 4-9-ARI 36 (8:45) (Punt formation) 5-B.Graham punts 39 yards to TEN 25, Center-82-M.Leach, out of bounds. PENALTY on TEN-33-M.Griffin, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at TEN 25.---- 1-10-ARI 35 (5:31) 34-T.Hightower left end to ARZ 33 for -2 yards (55-S.Tulloch). 2-12-ARI 33 (4:51) 7-M.Leinart pass short middle to 12-A.Roberts to ARZ 44 for 11 yards (22-V.Fuller) [55-S.Tulloch]. 3-1-ARI 44 (4:09) 7-M.Leinart pass incomplete deep right to 14-S.Williams. 4-1-ARI 44 (4:04) (Punt formation) 5-B.Graham punts 51 yards to TEN 5, Center-82-M.Leach, downed by ARZ-82-M.Leach.
You need to see the game. Leinart is bad and has no arm strength at all. He can complete very short passes, but that's about it.I'll make a prediction. In the next preseason game, game 3, where there are actually some game plans, Leinart will not complete a pass that goes for more than 25 yard in the air. He can complete three yarders all day, but that's not going to move the team.The bottom line is, when Leinart was in for three series the were three and out. Anderson came in and drove them down the field in his first drive. Now he sucks too, but not as much as Leinart does.
Lighten up, Francis.
Actually, he makes some good points.
Any of you guys call me Francis, and I'll kill you.
It will be bumped way earlier than that. The first time Fitz has less than 70 yards or more than 1 TD it will be bumped.
lol. I guess that's true.
When this team relegates Tim Hightower to a 3rd down back (at the most), and gets a semblance of a running game going with Chris Wells I think they'll be fine. That offense has a completely different identity with Beanie on the field. Hightower's negative 2 yards per carry isn't going to cut it.Get into some short down and distances with Beanie, and play action to Larry Fitzgerald. It's simple really. It shouldn't be too difficult with the schedule they face.
I plan on bumping it when his knee acts up during the regular season.
You talk about me like I'm not from this world...maybe you do feel that way
Beanie got his yds last night in the 2nd half, he was held to zero going into the locker room...just an fyi
Lotta guys in here ignoring all the warning signs. I like Fitz alot, it's not his fault all these things are happening around him but the risk/ reward is very bad right now.
He'd be shocked if he caught 5 passes, 100 yards and 2 TDs more than his prediction. LOLWait Wat? 85/1100/8 would be shocking but 80/1000/6 is a good prediction?The Moz said:
... and that's probably the number one thing I'd change about this forum. The point of this discussion shouldn't be to be right when the thread gets bumped later, nor should people spend so much time staking their claim to one side or another of a debate instead of focusing on the original goal of these forums - getting good information out there for discussion. The end result of all this thread bumping is that some people make outlandish predictions of things they don't believe to gain credibility, while others sit on the fence to avoid embarrassment. You've been around long enough to know why this shouldn't be the norm here.
Hard to get any yards when you haven't had any carries. I did notice that Wells came in when Anderson moved the team into the red zone, which I think was still in the first half. Wells promptly caught a pass, and on the next play Anderson missed the wide open receiver in the end zone after the entire Titans defense bit on play action to Beanie. The next drive he had a very nice 15 yard scamper off left tackle.Wells is the second best player on the offense. The Cardinals are going to be much better when he's in the game.
I agree some thread bumping is for the reasons you describe above and isn't useful. However, that isn't always the case. It is possible to bump threads and look back at prior discussions with the benefit of hindsight and judge one's own accuracy and biases in making predictions and projections and learn something. And it's possible to learn similar things about other posters, to see who would be better to pay more or less attention to in the future.
I actually have agreed with a number of your opinions throughout the years. However this is a stretch. And yes the sky in your world has always been a different color. Nothing wrong with that.You talk about me like I'm not from this world...maybe you do feel that way
I really wasn't trying to make this a "look at me" thread. I have been dead right about some things over the years and dead wrong too, goes with the forums. But I wanted to get peoples attention and make a point that Fitz to me is a very dangerous pick. Now he may very well prove a lot of us wrong and have a terrific season, but when you weigh out the 1st 7-8 WRs and maybe even a few more beyond that, Fitz to me looks like a very dangerous pick and his risk might not be worth it. He will have to outproduce the WRs we went over by quite a bit to justify taking him and I'm not sure that reward is worth the risk right now even if he pans out. If I just type in "Fitz could be risky"...that thread isn't going to have the same impact as when I say how I honestly feel that I don't want him on my roster basically. I know he isn't going to last till the 4th but even if he was I would not take him this year. I am much more comfortable with other combinations. Fred, you're a great poster and one of the longtime anchors around here so I take what you say perhaps a little more seriously than I might others. I hope you continue to speak your mind because I imagine many feel as you do. Nice post buddy.
The more you post about Players the better chance you have at being right. That being said, I'm sure you would draft/Pick Fitz if he fell to you in the second round.
This guy sums it up perfectly. He still might be a decent pick in the 2nd round of PPR's because he will likely catch a bunch of short passes, but his upsie is 1200 yards and 9 TD's, but more likely 1000 yards and 7, and thats if the knee doent affect his play.Thats redraft, since i am always in dynasty mode, and always looking to buy guys on the cheap, Fitz is a guy i am going after right now if i can find some panicky owners.![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
I wonder where the legions of "Cream rises to the top" posters are? Isn't that always the "FTW" post that so many people like to toss out when discussing talent Vs. situation? Everyone loves untested/unproven C.J. Spiller on arguably the worst offense in the league but are quick to nail Fitz into the ground when all he has ever done is be a top talent, WITH or WITHOUT Warner.Why do we assume Fitz will suffer horribly when we see good WRs on bad teams succeed every year (Marshall last year, Steve Smith EVERY year, Roddy White with a rookie 2 years ago.). Heck, Antonio Bryant, Dwayne Bowe, and Santana Moss were all top 15 WRs two years ago with something called Tyler Thigpen and a buch of guys most of us can't even remember.Given enough time, WRs have their up and down years. Randy Moss followed up his record year by playing 16 games and finishing outside the top 10. That doesn't mean we need to go silly and that's the point in this one. It's one thing to say an elite talent that has done nothing but post top numbers every year might have a tough go at it: It's another thing to say you wouldn't touch him inside the 4th round. Like I said before...a lot of people might SAY they would pass on him lie this but 90% of the time they won't. When push comes to shove and you're staring at him in the spot where the #4-5 WR is at, its highly unlikely he falls any farther at that, at most. And apparently, the entirety of the FF world agrees because I haven't seen one instance yet where he was drafted as late as the 4th round in any league with at least 12 teams.
This means alot more when Fitz joins the Zero-G Space Football LeagueAnyone see that "Sports Science" special at halftime yesterday? They had the guy hung upside down then fired balls at him from a distance that gave him 0.4 seconds to react. He caught 10 of 10 including half of them with one hand.
Or, as they explained in the segment, that by inverting him it threw off his muscle memory (track of ball different/inverted) and forced him to rely more in raw eye hand coordination. But your explanation works too.This means alot more when Fitz joins the Zero-G Space Football LeagueAnyone see that "Sports Science" special at halftime yesterday? They had the guy hung upside down then fired balls at him from a distance that gave him 0.4 seconds to react. He caught 10 of 10 including half of them with one hand.
"If you were a hot dog, would you eat yourself?"
can I use BBQ sauce?
Sure, but mustard and onions are really the only way to go
