If Adrian Peterson breaks Eric Dickerson's record (1 Viewer)

[wazoo11]

 

[sho nuff]

Should he? Probably...given the sucking that is Ponder...that Peterson is seeing those beefed up fronts trying to stop him and he is still doing that...he should.

Will he? Probably not. Its a QB driven league and Brady or Manning will win...not huge stats for them...but enough. And Brady's TD to INT ratio is disgusting right now.

 

[Sinrman]

I think he should. And win easily. But it is such a QB-driven league that I think they'll go with Brady or Manning.

 

[zoonation]

Dickerson's record is a long shot. He needs to average 133 just to crack 2000. He needs about 170 a game to break Dickerson's record.

That is a tall order.

 

[Tchula]

If he breaks 2000 he deserves MVP. Big passers are too commonplace. There will be a bigger difference between RB1 and RB2 than QB1 and QB2

 

[Dark Matter]

Dickerson's record is a long shot. He needs to average 133 just to crack 2000. He needs about 170 a game to break Dickerson's record. That is a tall order.

He'll get that against the Packers edit to add: He should get MVP but will probably get offensive player of the year and tie with Peyton for comeback player.

 

[Tau837]

There will be a bigger difference between RB1 and RB2 than QB1 and QB2

This would go more to OPOY than MVP.Brady and Manning are carrying their teams to the playoffs. AP is carrying his team to a good record but not into the playoffs. Thus, Brady or Manning will probably win MVP.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

His achievement would be more noteworthy if he breaks Dickerson's record, but I think he'd still struggle to win the award. QBs are just so important in the NFL today that it's almost impossible for anyone else to be more 'valuable.'

 

[avina1]

MVP, no, although he SHOULD get it. It will go to some QB.

 

[Grimace59]

There will be a bigger difference between RB1 and RB2 than QB1 and QB2

This would go more to OPOY than MVP.Brady and Manning are carrying their teams to the playoffs. AP is carrying his team to a good record but not into the playoffs. Thus, Brady or Manning will probably win MVP.

This is such a true statement, and I would change my vote to no after reading this

 

[encaitar]

There will be a bigger difference between RB1 and RB2 than QB1 and QB2

This would go more to OPOY than MVP.Brady and Manning are carrying their teams to the playoffs. AP is carrying his team to a good record but not into the playoffs. Thus, Brady or Manning will probably win MVP.

This is such a true statement, and I would change my vote to no after reading this

Swap Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Eli, Ryan, etc. to any of the other's teams and they are all still playoff teams. Swap any other running back in the league with Adrian and Minnesota doesn't win more than 4 games this year. If that doesn't define who the MVP is, then I don't know what does.

 

[Pipes]

There will be a bigger difference between RB1 and RB2 than QB1 and QB2

This would go more to OPOY than MVP.Brady and Manning are carrying their teams to the playoffs. AP is carrying his team to a good record but not into the playoffs. Thus, Brady or Manning will probably win MVP.

This is such a true statement, and I would change my vote to no after reading this

Swap Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Eli, Ryan, etc. to any of the other's teams and they are all still playoff teams. Swap any other running back in the league with Adrian and Minnesota doesn't win more than 4 games this year. If that doesn't define who the MVP is, then I don't know what does.

Tebow led the Broncos to the playoffs last year. While Peyton is having a great season the Broncos were a very good team without him. I agree with the sentiment that AP deserves it but probably won't win it

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I think Peterson deserves it whether he breaks Eric's record or not.

Peterson is the only player who deserves to be mentioned in the same sentence as Jim Brown. Even though the Vikes are not as dominating or winning as the 60's Browns, but ADP is an NFL GREAT and he deserves to be MVP.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Tebow led the Broncos to the playoffs last year. While Peyton is having a great season the Broncos were a very good team without him.

They were 8-8 last year without him. That ain't very good. And in your mind, all playoff teams must be created equal, right?

 

[Sweet Love]

There will be a bigger difference between RB1 and RB2 than QB1 and QB2

This would go more to OPOY than MVP.Brady and Manning are carrying their teams to the playoffs. AP is carrying his team to a good record but not into the playoffs. Thus, Brady or Manning will probably win MVP.

This is such a true statement, and I would change my vote to no after reading this

Swap Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Eli, Ryan, etc. to any of the other's teams and they are all still playoff teams. Swap any other running back in the league with Adrian and Minnesota doesn't win more than 4 games this year. If that doesn't define who the MVP is, then I don't know what does.

Tebow led the Broncos to the playoffs last year. While Peyton is having a great season the Broncos were a very good team without him. I agree with the sentiment that AP deserves it but probably won't win it

Exact example I was coming in to post...best way to look at this is like WAR (wins above replacement) in baseball. I have no doubt Denver and NE would have some losses mixed in with the streak they are on, but no one will argue that Minny is by far the worst team of the three when you take each respective MVP candidate out of the question. For me, I think there is no way ADP wins the MVP unless Brady blows up in the next week or so (I wouldn't hold my breath...I have been waiting for this for years from him as a Jets fan).

 

[bostonfred]

Swap Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Eli, Ryan, etc. to any of the other's teams and they are all still playoff teams. Swap any other running back in the league with Adrian and Minnesota doesn't win more than 4 games this year. If that doesn't define who the MVP is, then I don't know what does.

Thats a good case for why all of those guys are more valuable than peterson. If you took adp pff the vikes and replaced him with tom brady, the vikings would make the playoffs. Take brady off the pats and replace him with adp, and the pats wouldnt be fighting for the number one seed.And as a fun aside, the patrtiots are 16-18 under belichick when brady does not play. They have not made the playoffs in those two full seasons. In the other ten seasons, they made the playoffs nine times, including five superbowl appearances and three wins. The one season they misses the playoffs, they lost on a division tiebreaker in a season where brady led the league in passing tds.

 

[encaitar]

Swap Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Eli, Ryan, etc. to any of the other's teams and they are all still playoff teams. Swap any other running back in the league with Adrian and Minnesota doesn't win more than 4 games this year. If that doesn't define who the MVP is, then I don't know what does.

Thats a good case for why all of those guys are more valuable than peterson. If you took adp pff the vikes and replaced him with tom brady, the vikings would make the playoffs. Take brady off the pats and replace him with adp, and the pats wouldnt be fighting for the number one seed.And as a fun aside, the patrtiots are 16-18 under belichick when brady does not play. They have not made the playoffs in those two full seasons. In the other ten seasons, they made the playoffs nine times, including five superbowl appearances and three wins. The one season they misses the playoffs, they lost on a division tiebreaker in a season where brady led the league in passing tds.

I agree that QB is the most important position in football, that's actually why I think Peterson is the MVP(weird right). There is no scenario that you could put Brady, Manning, Rodgers etc. in where they would be handicapped in the way that Peterson is. They don't have the equivalent of Christian Ponder's terrible play holding their team down. That the Vikings have a winning record despite the worst(or at least bottom 3) starting QB in the league is just ridiculous. Put even a mediocre QB on that team and they're already in the playoffs and fighting for the #1 seed in the NFC.

 

[Pipes]

Tebow led the Broncos to the playoffs last year. While Peyton is having a great season the Broncos were a very good team without him.

They were 8-8 last year without him. That ain't very good. And in your mind, all playoff teams must be created equal, right?

Of course not and Manning has been very impressive this year however I don't think he's been better in ADP. Even with an average QB (and Tebow is clearly not) Denver probably has a similar record than they do now especially in that crappy division. Now if Denver goes on and wins the AFC I'm sure it will be because of Manning. Manning's been very good this year AP has been phenominal.

 

[SSOG]

I think Manning should win MVP, and will win MVP, even if Peterson breaks 2000. If Peterson breaks Dickerson's rushing mark, though, then I change my vote and think it should be Peterson. He would need to be so dominant down the stretch to get that mark that if he does it, I think he'll be the choice.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Tebow led the Broncos to the playoffs last year. While Peyton is having a great season the Broncos were a very good team without him.

They were 8-8 last year without him. That ain't very good. And in your mind, all playoff teams must be created equal, right?

Of course not and Manning has been very impressive this year however I don't think he's been better in ADP. Even with an average QB (and Tebow is clearly not) Denver probably has a similar record than they do now especially in that crappy division. Now if Denver goes on and wins the AFC I'm sure it will be because of Manning. Manning's been very good this year AP has been phenominal.

No way would Denver have about the same record with an average QB. Without Peyton, they probably don't win the Pittsburgh, San Diego (MNF), Cincinnati and TB games. Plus, I don't think the defense is really that different from last year, or better, but last year they were ranked 24th or so, while this year they are top 5. Big, big difference between playing with a lead on a regular basis vs. feeling like you have to stop the other team from scoring on every drive in the hopes that your offense can finally get a score at the end to win. That is about as valuable as it gets (although I'd still give it to AD if Minnesota makes the playoffs).

 

[SacramentoBob]

Big fan of the delusional people saying Tebow led his team to the playoffs last year. They got there in spite of him and won their division with an 8-8 record and needed help to get in. Pretty much a reincarnation of the 2004 St. Louis Rams.

 

[Heatman]

Big fan of the delusional people saying Tebow led his team to the playoffs last year. They got there in spite of him and won their division with an 8-8 record and needed help to get in. Pretty much a reincarnation of the 2004 St. Louis Rams.

Exactly. Just like Peterson helping his team get to the record they have despite Ponders horrible play and the offensive coaches horrible game planning. If he doesn't get MVP it will be a travesty. For everyone saying QB is the most valuable position, here is a RB who is overcoming HORRIBLE QB play and keeping his team in the playoff hunt. Without him this team has maybe 3 wins.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

If AD breaks the rushing record, he should win it easily. No questions asked.

Breaking an impressive record that has stood a very long time on an offense that is inept without him is much more impressive than a free agent QB leading a team to a better record than the previous year.

 

[SSOG]

If AD breaks the rushing record, he should win it easily. No questions asked. Breaking an impressive record that has stood a very long time on an offense that is inept without him is much more impressive than a free agent QB leading a team to a better record than the previous year.

Even the rushing record alone wouldn't be enough to do it for me, honestly. Combine the rushing record with the fact that he's gaining more yards than every other player on his entire team combined, the fact that he has more yards and a higher per-attempt average rushing than his QB has passing, and that's enough to do it for me.

 

[sho nuff]

Big fan of the delusional people saying Tebow led his team to the playoffs last year. They got there in spite of him and won their division with an 8-8 record and needed help to get in. Pretty much a reincarnation of the 2004 St. Louis Rams.

And big fan of people making the point for us.They did it because they are a good what? Team...add in a very good QB and they become better right? Of course they do.Not taking away from Manning...he has had a nice year.Peterson's is something guys just don't do often.Though...it would not be the first time Manning won it over a 2000 yard rusher...now would it.

 

[Kleck]

I see it ending like this:

Brady - MVP

Peterson - Offensive Player of the Year

Manning - Comeback Player of the Year

 

[Nemesis]

I think Manning should win MVP, and will win MVP, even if Peterson breaks 2000. If Peterson breaks Dickerson's rushing mark, though, then I change my vote and think it should be Peterson. He would need to be so dominant down the stretch to get that mark that if he does it, I think he'll be the choice.

Does anybody know WHEN is the actual vote?Is it after the wk 17 game?Also, something to think about is game timesenver's wk16 and wk17 games are both SUN 4pm home games All of Minnesota's remaining games are SUN 1pm games.NE's wk16 and wk17 games are SUN 1pm games.Minnesota might still be fighting for that last WC spot......while Denver may not have much to play for as they get to see #1 seed HOU and #2 seed NE play at 1pm.If they can't improve their seed and they see the #4 seed (BALT) can't catch them, this remotely might come into play.

 

[Sweet Feet]

Big fan of the delusional people saying Tebow led his team to the playoffs last year. They got there in spite of him and won their division with an 8-8 record and needed help to get in. Pretty much a reincarnation of the 2004 St. Louis Rams.

I dont agree. Several factors went into why Denver won games last year. Time of possession which came from running a lot, putting the other team in long field position which in tern gave Denver good field position.. then keeping the game close. Denver was one of the most boring teams in the league last year who pulled out close games. The special teams played well also. All of those factors attributed to wins. Tebow did a decent enough job when it counted late. He wasnt good but was good enough when it mattered along with everyone else.Denver backed into the playoffs and got lucky On the topic of Peterson.. great season, great player. Not the MVP in today's league.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

If AD breaks the rushing record, he should win it easily. No questions asked. Breaking an impressive record that has stood a very long time on an offense that is inept without him is much more impressive than a free agent QB leading a team to a better record than the previous year.

Even the rushing record alone wouldn't be enough to do it for me, honestly. Combine the rushing record with the fact that he's gaining more yards than every other player on his entire team combined, the fact that he has more yards and a higher per-attempt average rushing than his QB has passing, and that's enough to do it for me.

That's not just your Bronco-colored glasses talking, is it?. At this stage, an argument can be made that either are neck-and-neck for comeback player of the year. With Manning leading his team to the playoffs, I can see giving the edge to him for CBPOY and for MVP.But if ADP is breaking a record nearly 30 years old less than a year after ACL surgery -- and arguably more dominant at the position than before, and literally carrying the team on his back the entire season -- requiring him to surpass additional arbitrary benchmarks that RBs are not held accountable for (even in MVP voting) is specious.

 

[Run It Up]

I see it ending like this:Brady - MVPPeterson - Offensive Player of the YearManning - Comeback Player of the Year

Exactly how I see it as well.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Is Peterson more valuable than Manning? Well, I don't think the Broncos would have been better in 2012 if they had Peterson instead of Manning and I think the Vikings would have been better if they had Manning instead of AD. So, no.

 

[FUBAR]

Is Peterson more valuable than Manning? Well, I don't think the Broncos would have been better in 2012 if they had Peterson instead of Manning and I think the Vikings would have been better if they had Manning instead of AD. So, no.

With this logic, the MVP could be renamed the "Quarterback of the Year" award. I don't disagree with you, but how often do you think the MVP should be other than a QB?

 

[David Yudkin]

I mentioned this in the other MVP thread. If Megatron averages 151 yards each of the next 3 games he would hit 2K on the season (which would break the receving yards record by 10%).

I have not heard ONE PERSON suggest Johnson should be MVP (who is always double and triple covered). I get that ADP is facing 8 or 9 guys in the box and the MIN QB play has been not good. And I realize ADP is coming back from a bad knee injury. But what Megatron is doing is just as impressive, and he is not even on the radar for MVP.

 

[FUBAR]

I mentioned this in the other MVP thread. If Megatron averages 151 yards each of the next 3 games he would hit 2K on the season (which would break the receving yards record by 10%).I have not heard ONE PERSON suggest Johnson should be MVP (who is always double and triple covered). I get that ADP is facing 8 or 9 guys in the box and the MIN QB play has been not good. And I realize ADP is coming back from a bad knee injury. But what Megatron is doing is just as impressive, and he is not even on the radar for MVP.

Being on the 4th worst team in the NFL tends to knock players out of MVP talk.

 

[bostonfred]

For those talking about manning as mvp, can you explain why he would be in over brady? Brady has 21 more yards, 2 more tds, six fewer ints (just four interceptions on the season), and a better qb rating. Its close, i guess. But how would manning be the clear choice?

 

[David Yudkin]

I mentioned this in the other MVP thread. If Megatron averages 151 yards each of the next 3 games he would hit 2K on the season (which would break the receving yards record by 10%).I have not heard ONE PERSON suggest Johnson should be MVP (who is always double and triple covered). I get that ADP is facing 8 or 9 guys in the box and the MIN QB play has been not good. And I realize ADP is coming back from a bad knee injury. But what Megatron is doing is just as impressive, and he is not even on the radar for MVP.

Being on the 4th worst team in the NFL tends to knock players out of MVP talk.

If the Vikings don't make the playoffs and end up 7-9 or 8-8, is there really all that much difference? What would it take from Johnson to merit MVP consideration? 2500 receiving yards? 30 TD?Part of the argument for ADP is him having a record breaking season. Compared to top tier teams, how valuable is a record breaking season on an 8-8 team or a team with a losing record? In ADP's case, the Vikings still would have missed the playoffs without him (assuming they miss the playoffs).

 

[SSOG]

If AD breaks the rushing record, he should win it easily. No questions asked. Breaking an impressive record that has stood a very long time on an offense that is inept without him is much more impressive than a free agent QB leading a team to a better record than the previous year.

Even the rushing record alone wouldn't be enough to do it for me, honestly. Combine the rushing record with the fact that he's gaining more yards than every other player on his entire team combined, the fact that he has more yards and a higher per-attempt average rushing than his QB has passing, and that's enough to do it for me.

That's not just your Bronco-colored glasses talking, is it?. At this stage, an argument can be made that either are neck-and-neck for comeback player of the year. With Manning leading his team to the playoffs, I can see giving the edge to him for CBPOY and for MVP.But if ADP is breaking a record nearly 30 years old less than a year after ACL surgery -- and arguably more dominant at the position than before, and literally carrying the team on his back the entire season -- requiring him to surpass additional arbitrary benchmarks that RBs are not held accountable for (even in MVP voting) is specious.

Lots of people break records without winning MVP awards. Brees broke a record just as old last year and didn't get the MVP, and he plays a higher-leverage position. I don't factor his comeback from injury into MVP discussions, because I don't think it's relevant. So breaking records alone isn't enough. Getting to the playoffs alone isn't enough. Being the only offensive threat in a grease fire of an offense isn't enough. A combination of several of those factors, though? That's enough for me to give it to him. If he breaks a huge record *and* drags a ludicrously inept passing attack on his back all the way to the playoffs, then give that man the prize. Otherwise, I say give it to the guy who transformed the worst passing offense in the league into one of the truly elite units, putting up the second best season of his 4-time MVP career, and overseeing a massive 15 point swing in scoring differential.

 

[SSOG]

For those talking about manning as mvp, can you explain why he would be in over brady? Brady has 21 more yards, 2 more tds, six fewer ints (just four interceptions on the season), and a better qb rating. Its close, i guess. But how would manning be the clear choice?

I'd give Brady OPoY over Manning, because he's produced better offensive results. I'd give Manning the MVP pretty easily, though. Brady is putting up super-elite results in a super-elite offense, but we're talking about just small improvements over what he's already done in recent history in that offense. Peyton totally transformed a stone-aged passing attack into one of the sleekest, most sophisticated units in the league. It's tough to argue that Brady is more valuable than Manning to his offense. The two are street racing. Brady is driving a Ferrari, while Manning has a Toyota Camry. Brady might be leading the race, but it's far more impressive that Manning's managing to keep it neck and neck down the stretch.

 

[Tau837]

Is Peterson more valuable than Manning? Well, I don't think the Broncos would have been better in 2012 if they had Peterson instead of Manning and I think the Vikings would have been better if they had Manning instead of AD. So, no.

With this logic, the MVP could be renamed the "Quarterback of the Year" award. I don't disagree with you, but how often do you think the MVP should be other than a QB?

In today's game? Probably never. It's a QB-dominated game.Maybe if there was a top plateau of several QBs in a given season, with none of them standing out over the others, either in terms of statistics or winning, comebacks, etc., while at the same time a Peterson-like season happened at another position. But when was the last time that happened?

 

[bostonfred]

For those talking about manning as mvp, can you explain why he would be in over brady? Brady has 21 more yards, 2 more tds, six fewer ints (just four interceptions on the season), and a better qb rating. Its close, i guess. But how would manning be the clear choice?

I'd give Brady OPoY over Manning, because he's produced better offensive results. I'd give Manning the MVP pretty easily, though. Brady is putting up super-elite results in a super-elite offense, but we're talking about just small improvements over what he's already done in recent history in that offense. Peyton totally transformed a stone-aged passing attack into one of the sleekest, most sophisticated units in the league. It's tough to argue that Brady is more valuable than Manning to his offense. The two are street racing. Brady is driving a Ferrari, while Manning has a Toyota Camry. Brady might be leading the race, but it's far more impressive that Manning's managing to keep it neck and neck down the stretch.

I do feel bad for manning. He has never had any offensive talent around him. These schlub receivers in denver are holding him back just like harrison, wayne, clark and edge did in indy. Denver may have had enough talent that kyle orton and tim tebow were fantasy relevant, but manning is leading dencer to their first division win since last year. Whoever could pull off a feat like that must be the mvp of the league.

 

[SSOG]

For those talking about manning as mvp, can you explain why he would be in over brady? Brady has 21 more yards, 2 more tds, six fewer ints (just four interceptions on the season), and a better qb rating. Its close, i guess. But how would manning be the clear choice?

I'd give Brady OPoY over Manning, because he's produced better offensive results. I'd give Manning the MVP pretty easily, though. Brady is putting up super-elite results in a super-elite offense, but we're talking about just small improvements over what he's already done in recent history in that offense. Peyton totally transformed a stone-aged passing attack into one of the sleekest, most sophisticated units in the league. It's tough to argue that Brady is more valuable than Manning to his offense. The two are street racing. Brady is driving a Ferrari, while Manning has a Toyota Camry. Brady might be leading the race, but it's far more impressive that Manning's managing to keep it neck and neck down the stretch.

I do feel bad for manning. He has never had any offensive talent around him. These schlub receivers in denver are holding him back just like harrison, wayne, clark and edge did in indy. Denver may have had enough talent that kyle orton and tim tebow were fantasy relevant, but manning is leading dencer to their first division win since last year. Whoever could pull off a feat like that must be the mvp of the league.

Denver was 25th in points and 23rd in yards last year. Denver is 2nd in points and 4th in yards this year. Denver averaged 19.31 points per game last year. Denver averages 28.85 points per game this year. Denver averaged 316.6 yards per game last year. Denver averages 390.1 yards per game this year. Denver's scoring differential was -5.06 points per game last year. Denver's scoring differential is +9.08 points per game this year. Denver is a near lock to set the NFL record for the biggest increase in completions from one season to the next. Last season, Denver was an 8-8 division champ who backed into the playoffs on a 3-game losing streak with negative differential. This season, Denver's contending for a first round bye and getting rated by Vegas as a heavy superbowl favorite. Not only is Peyton the triggerman of this turnaround, he's also the architect of the offense they installed. But let's not let facts stand in the way of a good opportunity to use a little sarcasm.By the way, you might not want to play the "supporting cast" card when the last time your guy missed a season, his offense finished 5th in yards, 8th in points, and his team was 11-5 without him.

 

[David Yudkin]

By the way, you might not want to play the "supporting cast" card when the last time your guy missed a season, his offense finished 5th in yards, 8th in points, and his team was 11-5 without him.

Everything is relative. With Cassell . . .5 fewer wins (and no playoffs)179 fewer points scored1162 fewer passing yardsTurnover differential of +1 instead of +16By comparison, the Broncos would have to improve by that much (from 2011 with Tebow to 2012 with Manning) to have a similar difference than Brady to Cassel.That would mean in 2012 Denver would have to:Have a 13-3 recordScore 488 points (on pace for 461)Have 3596 passing yards (already at 3692 for this season)Have a +3 turnover differential (currently -2)Some of this is a bit skewed, as Cassel performed adequately and the Pats could run a similar scheme . The Broncos were predominently a running team with Tebow. So it's not exactly a fair comparison when the Broncos dumped a rush-centric system for a more passing friendly one. They should have better totals based on that alone.

 

[SSOG]

By the way, you might not want to play the "supporting cast" card when the last time your guy missed a season, his offense finished 5th in yards, 8th in points, and his team was 11-5 without him.

Everything is relative. With Cassell . . .5 fewer wins (and no playoffs)179 fewer points scored1162 fewer passing yardsTurnover differential of +1 instead of +16By comparison, the Broncos would have to improve by that much (from 2011 with Tebow to 2012 with Manning) to have a similar difference than Brady to Cassel.That would mean in 2012 Denver would have to:Have a 13-3 recordScore 488 points (on pace for 461)Have 3596 passing yards (already at 3692 for this season)Have a +3 turnover differential (currently -2)Some of this is a bit skewed, as Cassel performed adequately and the Pats could run a similar scheme . The Broncos were predominently a running team with Tebow. So it's not exactly a fair comparison when the Broncos dumped a rush-centric system for a more passing friendly one. They should have better totals based on that alone.

If everything is relative, why are you giving me absolute changes? Run those numbers again looking at the percentage trade from one season to the next and see how that compares to the percentage change under Manning. Regardless, this disingenuous aside is entirely beside the point. Tom Brady's offense is executing better than Manning's. It's also stocked with guys who have been steeped in the offense for better than half a decade, and has been putting up consistently elite results during that span. When the offense ran without Brady, it was still a top offense, if not anywhere near as elite. Peyton Manning joined a new team stocked with complete strangers, installed an entirely new system to bring them out of the Stone Age, taught his teammates on the fly what he was looking for, and turned them from a below average unit to one of the most elite offenses in the league overnight. Tom Brady has been a better offensive player, but I can't for the life of me imagine how anyone could possibly argue that Manning hadn't been significantly more valuable to his franchise.

 

[FUBAR]

I do feel bad for manning. He has never had any offensive talent around him. These schlub receivers in denver are holding him back just like harrison, wayne, clark and edge did in indy. Denver may have had enough talent that kyle orton and tim tebow were fantasy relevant, but manning is leading dencer to their first division win since last year. Whoever could pull off a feat like that must be the mvp of the league.

Interesting argument. What did Clark and Harrison ever do without Peyton? Wayne had his worst year in almost a decade last year without Peyton, although he is lucky enough this year to play with the best QB prospect since... Peyton. Edge did have a couple 1,000 yard seasons without Peyton, but his rushing average dropped considerably as did his TDs.

 

[jurb26]

The MVP is going to be either Brady or Peterson IMO. Manning is 3rd at best on the list. For me, if Minn gets to the playoffs on the back on Peterson he is the easy pick as MVP, regardless of 2k. Minn is not good. The fact that they are even in the playoff hunt is almost solely due to Peterson's dominance this season. He will undoubtedly need to continue that dominance in order for Minn to get to the playoffs. NE and Den are both good even with out Brady and Manning IMO. Yes, they are not as good, but they are still solid playoff contending teams. Minn is likely fighting for a top 5 pick this year with out Peterson.

That said, a QB will win MVP.

 

[jurb26]

I mentioned this in the other MVP thread. If Megatron averages 151 yards each of the next 3 games he would hit 2K on the season (which would break the receving yards record by 10%).I have not heard ONE PERSON suggest Johnson should be MVP (who is always double and triple covered). I get that ADP is facing 8 or 9 guys in the box and the MIN QB play has been not good. And I realize ADP is coming back from a bad knee injury. But what Megatron is doing is just as impressive, and he is not even on the radar for MVP.

Being on the 4th worst team in the NFL tends to knock players out of MVP talk.

Also tough to win MVP when you only score 5 times all year.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think what Peterson is doing is far more impressive than what Manning is doing to be honest.

 

[Assani Fisher]

depends on how you define MVP. If its "best player" then he definitely deserves to be in the conversation. If its "most valuable" then I don't think any RB should ever be top 3 in any year in recent history(I would say "in all of history" but I'm not familiar enough with pre-1985 NFL).

 

[Jobber]

I think what Peterson is doing is far more impressive than what Manning is doing to be honest.

Agreed.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I mentioned this in the other MVP thread. If Megatron averages 151 yards each of the next 3 games he would hit 2K on the season (which would break the receving yards record by 10%).I have not heard ONE PERSON suggest Johnson should be MVP (who is always double and triple covered). I get that ADP is facing 8 or 9 guys in the box and the MIN QB play has been not good. And I realize ADP is coming back from a bad knee injury. But what Megatron is doing is just as impressive, and he is not even on the radar for MVP.

Being on the 4th worst team in the NFL tends to knock players out of MVP talk.

If the Vikings don't make the playoffs and end up 7-9 or 8-8, is there really all that much difference?

Yes. The Vikings are still in the playoff race; the Lions were out of the playoff race before December. Big, big difference.

For those talking about manning as mvp, can you explain why he would be in over brady? Brady has 21 more yards, 2 more tds, six fewer ints (just four interceptions on the season), and a better qb rating. Its close, i guess. But how would manning be the clear choice?

I'd give Brady OPoY over Manning, because he's produced better offensive results. I'd give Manning the MVP pretty easily, though. Brady is putting up super-elite results in a super-elite offense, but we're talking about just small improvements over what he's already done in recent history in that offense. Peyton totally transformed a stone-aged passing attack into one of the sleekest, most sophisticated units in the league. It's tough to argue that Brady is more valuable than Manning to his offense. The two are street racing. Brady is driving a Ferrari, while Manning has a Toyota Camry. Brady might be leading the race, but it's far more impressive that Manning's managing to keep it neck and neck down the stretch.

I do feel bad for manning. He has never had any offensive talent around him. These schlub receivers in denver are holding him back just like harrison, wayne, clark and edge did in indy. Denver may have had enough talent that kyle orton and tim tebow were fantasy relevant, but manning is leading dencer to their first division win since last year. Whoever could pull off a feat like that must be the mvp of the league.

Denver was 25th in points and 23rd in yards last year. Denver is 2nd in points and 4th in yards this year. Denver averaged 19.31 points per game last year. Denver averages 28.85 points per game this year. Denver averaged 316.6 yards per game last year. Denver averages 390.1 yards per game this year. Denver's scoring differential was -5.06 points per game last year. Denver's scoring differential is +9.08 points per game this year. Denver is a near lock to set the NFL record for the biggest increase in completions from one season to the next. Last season, Denver was an 8-8 division champ who backed into the playoffs on a 3-game losing streak with negative differential. This season, Denver's contending for a first round bye and getting rated by Vegas as a heavy superbowl favorite. Not only is Peyton the triggerman of this turnaround, he's also the architect of the offense they installed. But let's not let facts stand in the way of a good opportunity to use a little sarcasm.By the way, you might not want to play the "supporting cast" card when the last time your guy missed a season, his offense finished 5th in yards, 8th in points, and his team was 11-5 without him.

That was pure ownage. Also, should we compare the skill position players of Denver and New England? If you had to list the top 5 from the two teams combined, Denver would probably only have one (D. Thomas), while New England would have four (Gronk, Hernandez, Welker and Ridely). I am not saying Brady cannot produce without studs around him, because he has proven that he can, but if you are talking about this year's stats in a vacuum, Brady has far more help around him on offense than Manning does (even when he has had guys out).