What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

If Martz lands in Oakland (1 Viewer)

Adrian Peterson

Footballguy
Rumours are saying Martz could land in Oakland and instill his offensive system to the Raiders with Curry, Porter and Moss. Lamont Jordan is also decent enough out of the backfield to help him out as well the same role he used Jackson. Does this raise Moss' value a lot - ?

 

diesel7982

Footballguy
If Martz goes there, and if they get a QB, and if they take less than 8 months to learn his system, then yes, definitely.

 
M

MLBrandow

Guest
Any coach to Oakland isn't going to help until they either a) get Kerry Collins an offensive line that can give him more time to throw or b) get rid of Kerry Collins and get a mobile QB (cough... Daunte Culpepper)

 

Raider Nation

Devil's Advocate
As a Jordan owner I am unsure if this is a good thing or a bad thing if Martz was to end up in Oak.
if your league gives points for running backs blocking, it is a good thing.
I don't have stats handy to back it up, but I would guess that the Rams (under Martz) ran the ball more frequently than most people think. Certainly not as much as the Steelers, for instance, but more often than losing teams which were always behind.
 

ffchamp1

Footballguy
Rumours are saying Martz could land in Oakland and instill his offensive system to the Raiders with Curry, Porter and Moss. Lamont Jordan is also decent enough out of the backfield to help him out as well the same role he used Jackson.

Does this raise Moss' value a lot - ?
If Martz goes to OAK then Moss will be the #1 WR if...he can play 16 games,

if Culpepper comes with him,

and well the first two won't happen so there is no need for the third

Tom

 

fridayfrenzy

Footballguy
As a Jordan owner I am unsure if this is a good thing or a bad thing if Martz was to end up in Oak.
if your league gives points for running backs blocking, it is a good thing.
I don't have stats handy to back it up, but I would guess that the Rams (under Martz) ran the ball more frequently than most people think. Certainly not as much as the Steelers, for instance, but more often than losing teams which were always behind.
I hope you do realize that the Rams had one of the most unequal Run to Pass Ratios in the NFL over the last few years. The Rams passed the ball A LOT!!

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Carter_Can_Fly

Footballguy
Rumours are saying Martz could land in Oakland and instill his offensive system to the Raiders with Curry, Porter and Moss.  Lamont Jordan is also decent enough out of the backfield to help him out as well the same role he used Jackson.

  Does this raise Moss' value a lot - ?
If Martz goes to OAK then Moss will be the #1 WR if...he can play 16 games,

if Culpepper comes with him,

and well the first two won't happen so there is no need for the third

Tom
The only thing Moss needs to have a chance at being the number 1 WR is health. It does not matter who is at the helm. Moss had over 1000 yards this year and 8 TD's playing hurt. Now, you can use health as your main argument as why he does not have a chance at being number 1 but I don't believe you can back up your statistics at all to assume Moss needs Culpepper; but I would love to see you try and prove otherwise.Here I will get you started on the wrong path; go and check Moss's statistics with other QB's at the helm in Minnesota while Culpepper was unable to play or venture to look up the stats of Moss this year prior to his injury. Wait I have them right here:

In the first 4 games before he was injured Moss had

19 receptions for 466 yards and 2 TD's.

That would put him on pace for 80 receptions 1864 yards recieving and 8 TD's. But if you would like to blindly assume that he needs Culpepper and fail to notice the trend that the reason to Moss's decline in statistics over the last 2 seasons is injury and not QB play you are fishing.

 

fridayfrenzy

Footballguy
Rumours are saying Martz could land in Oakland and instill his offensive system to the Raiders with Curry, Porter and Moss. Lamont Jordan is also decent enough out of the backfield to help him out as well the same role he used Jackson.

Does this raise Moss' value a lot - ?
If Martz goes to OAK then Moss will be the #1 WR if...he can play 16 games,

if Culpepper comes with him,

and well the first two won't happen so there is no need for the third

Tom
The only thing Moss needs to have a chance at being the number 1 WR is health. It does not matter who is at the helm. Moss had over 1000 yards this year and 8 TD's playing hurt. Now, you can use health as your main argument as why he does not have a chance at being number 1 but I don't believe you can back up your statistics at all to assume Moss needs Culpepper; but I would love to see you try and prove otherwise.Here I will get you started on the wrong path; go and check Moss's statistics with other QB's at the helm in Minnesota while Culpepper was unable to play or venture to look up the stats of Moss this year prior to his injury. Wait I have them right here:

In the first 4 games before he was injured Moss had

19 receptions for 466 yards and 2 TD's.

That would put him on pace for 80 receptions 1864 yards recieving and 8 TD's. But if you would like to blindly assume that he needs Culpepper and fail to notice the trend that the reason to Moss's decline in statistics over the last 2 seasons is injury and not QB play you are fishing.
If Martz is coaching the same team as Moss, Moss will be #1 WR. I don't care if its Tui throwing him the ball. Porter and oss would be sick if Martz came aboard. You would also see a decline in Jordan, but he would still flourish as a receiving RB.

 

redman

Footballguy
As a Jordan owner I am unsure if this is a good thing or a bad thing if Martz was to end up in Oak.
if your league gives points for running backs blocking, it is a good thing.
I don't have stats handy to back it up, but I would guess that the Rams (under Martz) ran the ball more frequently than most people think. Certainly not as much as the Steelers, for instance, but more often than losing teams which were always behind.
:no: Under Martz from 2000 - 2005, the Rams ranked 26, 22, 32, 28, 30, 29 in rushing attempts. Source

 

RandyDB

Footballguy
I hope you do realize that the Rams had one of the most unequal Run to Pass Ratios in the NFL over the last few years.

The Rams passed the ball A LOT!!
................................Pass.....Rush................................Att.......Att

2005

Oakland Raiders........590.......361

St. Louis Rams..........598.......380

2004

Oakland Raiders........582.......328

St. Louis Rams..........581.......381

 

Preacher 1

Footballguy
As a Jordan owner I am unsure if this is a good thing or a bad thing if Martz was to end up in Oak.
if your league gives points for runing backs blocking, it is a good thing.
Y'know, the Rams had this guy named Marshall something or other that seems to do OK statwise in the Martz system. :rolleyes: How quickly we forget...You don't have to lead the league in rushing attempts to have a great season...the RB in a Martz offense is worth a TON. Provided thay have a decent QB of course...look at Jackson pre and post Bulger this year...

 
Last edited by a moderator:

simsarge

Footballguy
I'm not all togeather sure Martz will put up with Moss' antics. He (Moss) is renowned for taking plays off if he knows he's not the center of attention. And Martz is just as renowned for being an egotistical genius. It would certainly be a major statistical boost if he can improve his health...mental health that is. But can these two egomaniacs coexist with out driving each other to drink? I actually don't think so. It certainly would be entertaining to watch regardless of how it played out though. :popcorn:

 

Bri

Footballguy
As a Jordan owner I am unsure if this is a good thing or a bad thing if Martz was to end up in Oak.
if your league gives points for runing backs blocking, it is a good thing.
Y'know, the Rams had this guy named Marshall something or other that seems to do OK statwise in the Martz system. :rolleyes: How quickly we forget...You don't have to lead the league in rushing attempts to have a great season...the RB in a Martz offense is worth a TON. Provided thay have a decent QB of course...look at Jackson pre and post Bulger this year...
Preacher, check out Faulk with Vermeil and then with Martz, noticable difference there.
 

Bri

Footballguy
Like FM+LHucks, Moss is so good you could make a case for him being the #1 ranked WR regardless of coach or QB. He seems to stop himself(health and mentally) moreso than other teams do.

 

Trap Play

Footballguy
Here's what I don't get about all this supposition... Sure Moss is an exceptional talent when healthy, and I am sure he would flourish compared to this year with Martz at the helm, however, correct me if I am wrong, but Martz's scheme requires disciplined route running and that is not Moss strong suit.If Martz goes to Oakland, I think there are too many variables (QB, OL, etc.) to simply say Moss will be the #1 WR hands down. Have we learned nothing from the Oakland passing debacle that was this past year. Fool me once...

 
Last edited by a moderator:

dgreen

Footballguy
As a Jordan owner I am unsure if this is a good thing or a bad thing if Martz was to end up in Oak.
if your league gives points for runing backs blocking, it is a good thing.
Y'know, the Rams had this guy named Marshall something or other that seems to do OK statwise in the Martz system. :rolleyes: How quickly we forget...You don't have to lead the league in rushing attempts to have a great season...the RB in a Martz offense is worth a TON. Provided thay have a decent QB of course...look at Jackson pre and post Bulger this year...
Preacher, check out Faulk with Vermeil and then with Martz, noticable difference there.
Faulk and Vermeil were together for one year. Faulk was the #2 FF RB. His first two years under Martz as HC, Faulk was the #1 FF RB. Then, he started to get old and dropped to 14th and 16th.
 

ffchamp1

Footballguy
Rumours are saying Martz could land in Oakland and instill his offensive system to the Raiders with Curry, Porter and Moss.  Lamont Jordan is also decent enough out of the backfield to help him out as well the same role he used Jackson.

  Does this raise Moss' value a lot - ?
If Martz goes to OAK then Moss will be the #1 WR if...he can play 16 games,

if Culpepper comes with him,

and well the first two won't happen so there is no need for the third

Tom
The only thing Moss needs to have a chance at being the number 1 WR is health. It does not matter who is at the helm. Moss had over 1000 yards this year and 8 TD's playing hurt. Now, you can use health as your main argument as why he does not have a chance at being number 1 but I don't believe you can back up your statistics at all to assume Moss needs Culpepper; but I would love to see you try and prove otherwise.Here I will get you started on the wrong path; go and check Moss's statistics with other QB's at the helm in Minnesota while Culpepper was unable to play or venture to look up the stats of Moss this year prior to his injury. Wait I have them right here:

In the first 4 games before he was injured Moss had

19 receptions for 466 yards and 2 TD's.

That would put him on pace for 80 receptions 1864 yards recieving and 8 TD's. But if you would like to blindly assume that he needs Culpepper and fail to notice the trend that the reason to Moss's decline in statistics over the last 2 seasons is injury and not QB play you are fishing.
The #1 wr in the game or on his team? Sounds like you either are a Moss owner or you want to argue just to argue. If Moss is healthy he could be the #1 if they have a veteran QB in the system. That QB could be Culpepper who has said he would not mind being dealt if he is not wanted in MINN or any other solid QB. However unless Collins restructures, comes up with dirty pictures of Al Davis etc we are going to see a change at the helm in OAK. Sure Moss has performed well with many QB's blah, blah blah. Sure he has proven to be injury prone but tough enough to try and play through it over the last few years. Does this mean that he will automatically become the #1 in 06 if Martz is there?

I for one do not believe he will be and would go with many more guys as the much safer pick. I rated Moss at #11 going into this year and I can't imagine him being any higher going into next year, REGARDLESS of who is the coach.

As far as your statistics, yeah they don't lie. In fact in our scoring system TO was the #1 WR before he was suspended, does that mean he is #1 next year?

Sorry, not falling for the bait, but please enjoy playing him next year or if you don't have him, enjoy drafting him with your first pick.

Tom

 

zamboni

Footballguy
Even if Martz does go to Oakland (which actually seems unlikely given Davis's suppposed concerns over his health), I think it's presumptuous to say that it will be bombs-away like with the Rams.Everyone thought Dungification would hurt the passing game production of Manning and Co., and it didn't quite work out that way, I'd say. Coaches have to play within the parameters of the overall talent they have on their roster.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Courtjester

The Town Drunk
Here's what I don't get about all this supposition... Sure Moss is an exceptional talent when healthy, and I am sure he would flourish compared to this year with Martz at the helm, however, correct me if I am wrong, but Martz's scheme requires disciplined route running and that is not Moss strong suit.

If Martz goes to Oakland, I think there are too many variables (QB, OL, etc.) to simply say Moss will be the #1 WR hands down. Have we learned nothing from the Oakland passing debacle that was this past year. Fool me once...
I have to agree with this.The Raiders have too many needs right now and they are in a division where they can't afford to have these holes in their team.

I would be more apt to believe that Moss will begin to show his true colors next year when the Raiders are stuck in another sub-.500 season while they attempt to rebuild.

I think Randy went to the Raiders hoping for a chance to win and get a ring (I am sure the money helped), but this team is unfortunately going to be lucky to finish 3rd in their division unless something drastic happens to Denver or SD.

 

reg

Mod in training
Here's what I don't get about all this supposition...  Sure Moss is an exceptional talent when healthy, and I am sure he would flourish compared to this year with Martz at the helm, however, correct me if I am wrong, but Martz's scheme requires disciplined route running and that is not Moss strong suit.

If Martz goes to Oakland, I think there are too many variables (QB, OL, etc.) to simply say Moss will be the #1 WR hands down.  Have we learned nothing from the Oakland passing debacle that was this past year.  Fool me once...
I have to agree with this.The Raiders have too many needs right now and they are in a division where they can't afford to have these holes in their team.

I would be more apt to believe that Moss will begin to show his true colors next year when the Raiders are stuck in another sub-.500 season while they attempt to rebuild.

I think Randy went to the Raiders hoping for a chance to win and get a ring (I am sure the money helped), but this team is unfortunately going to be lucky to finish 3rd in their division unless something drastic happens to Denver or SD.
I didn't know he had the option of where he got traded to.
 

Courtjester

The Town Drunk
Here's what I don't get about all this supposition...  Sure Moss is an exceptional talent when healthy, and I am sure he would flourish compared to this year with Martz at the helm, however, correct me if I am wrong, but Martz's scheme requires disciplined route running and that is not Moss strong suit.

If Martz goes to Oakland, I think there are too many variables (QB, OL, etc.) to simply say Moss will be the #1 WR hands down.  Have we learned nothing from the Oakland passing debacle that was this past year.  Fool me once...
I have to agree with this.The Raiders have too many needs right now and they are in a division where they can't afford to have these holes in their team.

I would be more apt to believe that Moss will begin to show his true colors next year when the Raiders are stuck in another sub-.500 season while they attempt to rebuild.

I think Randy went to the Raiders hoping for a chance to win and get a ring (I am sure the money helped), but this team is unfortunately going to be lucky to finish 3rd in their division unless something drastic happens to Denver or SD.
I didn't know he had the option of where he got traded to.
Yeah, I understand that, I should have worded my post differently. My point remains the same, I think he will grow tired of losing and revert to some of his Minnesota day type tactics rather then become the #1 WR in football.

 

jurb26

Footballguy
Here's what I don't get about all this supposition... Sure Moss is an exceptional talent when healthy, and I am sure he would flourish compared to this year with Martz at the helm, however, correct me if I am wrong, but Martz's scheme requires disciplined route running and that is not Moss strong suit.

If Martz goes to Oakland, I think there are too many variables (QB, OL, etc.) to simply say Moss will be the #1 WR hands down. Have we learned nothing from the Oakland passing debacle that was this past year. Fool me once...
The only thing we really learned was that with the most physically gifted WR in the NFL hurt for the greater portion of the year it struggled. Is that any surprise though? The O was looking very good prior to Moss' injury and so was Collins as a passer. Didn't he have like 8 TDs and 0 Ints at that point in time? I agree with most of the other posters. Moss does not need Martz or any coach to be the #1 WR, just to stay healthy. If he can play a full 16 unhampered he will be in the running for the top WR. Adding Martz would be a nice plus though and add some certainty to his chances IMO. Everyone is caught up on the Martz system, but great offensive coaches tailor the system to the talent they have available. Either that or the find the guys to make it work before implementing it. Even though Matz gets thrown under the bus a lot around here, I don't think he is a stupid offensive coach. Actually he is a very good one that simply looses sight of the bigger picture in a football game IMO. I think Matz finds a way to best use Moss and the stable of talent in Oak if he lands there.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Men-in-Cleats

Footballguy
Here's what I don't get about all this supposition... Sure Moss is an exceptional talent when healthy, and I am sure he would flourish compared to this year with Martz at the helm, however, correct me if I am wrong, but Martz's scheme requires disciplined route running and that is not Moss strong suit.

If Martz goes to Oakland, I think there are too many variables (QB, OL, etc.) to simply say Moss will be the #1 WR hands down. Have we learned nothing from the Oakland passing debacle that was this past year. Fool me once...
Not only did Martz's system work well due to the excellent route running, but it also relied heavily on Bulger and before him Warner showing exceptional accuracy and touch on their passes. It was not a heave it deep and let the WR run under it type of offense like Moss is used to. I'm not sure they have a QB on their roster that is well suited to Martz's offense.
 

Mike

Footballguy
Here's what I don't get about all this supposition... Sure Moss is an exceptional talent when healthy, and I am sure he would flourish compared to this year with Martz at the helm, however, correct me if I am wrong, but Martz's scheme requires disciplined route running and that is not Moss strong suit.

If Martz goes to Oakland, I think there are too many variables (QB, OL, etc.) to simply say Moss will be the #1 WR hands down. Have we learned nothing from the Oakland passing debacle that was this past year. Fool me once...
Surprised this took so long in this thread. Moss + Martz's system is not a good pairing, IMHO. Martz would likely get very frustrated with Moss' route running. In this aspect of the game, Moss is no Torry Holt or Isaac Bruce.
 

ffchamp1

Footballguy
Here's what I don't get about all this supposition...  Sure Moss is an exceptional talent when healthy, and I am sure he would flourish compared to this year with Martz at the helm, however, correct me if I am wrong, but Martz's scheme requires disciplined route running and that is not Moss strong suit.

If Martz goes to Oakland, I think there are too many variables (QB, OL, etc.) to simply say Moss will be the #1 WR hands down.  Have we learned nothing from the Oakland passing debacle that was this past year.  Fool me once...
Not only did Martz's system work well due to the excellent route running, but it also relied heavily on Bulger and before him Warner showing exceptional accuracy and touch on their passes. It was not a heave it deep and let the WR run under it type of offense like Moss is used to. I'm not sure they have a QB on their roster that is well suited to Martz's offense.
Very good pointTom

 

Bri

Footballguy
Even if Martz does go to Oakland (which actually seems unlikely given Davis's suppposed concerns over his health), I think it's presumptuous to say that it will be bombs-away like with the Rams.

Everyone thought Dungification would hurt the passing game production of Manning and Co., and it didn't quite work out that way, I'd say. Coaches have to play within the parameters of the overall talent they have on their roster.
Marty Moore and Dungy worked together previously. This was a gross oversight by some people IMO.Got another example? I'm curious.

I'd guess he'd be like Vermeil with the Chiefs but...maybe not

 

Bri

Footballguy
Faulk and Vermeil were together for one year. Faulk was the #2 FF RB. His first two years under Martz as HC, Faulk was the #1 FF RB. Then, he started to get old and dropped to 14th and 16th.
Very good points think he'll retire?

I heard he's simply replied that he hasn't considerred it yet but the coach will influence his decision when he gets around to it

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top