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If McGwire doesn't get a sniff for the HOF (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Hov34
- Start date
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
3 MVPs pre roid(should have been 4 in a row), best player in the NL during his time pre-roids
shouldn't go first ballot, but he probably merits enshrinement, no matter how much of a SOB he is
shouldn't go first ballot, but he probably merits enshrinement, no matter how much of a SOB he is
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
He was probably the best player in the 1990s. He's a first ballot HOFer, no question.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Bonds is one of the best players in history. With, or without roids (ok, probably with). He should be in.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
But, you do realize he won't be, right? BBWoA aren't going to vote him in first ballot, this much is certain.He'll get in, eventually. And, he should. But, as a matter of practicality, I'd put my money on the over-1 on years it'll take for him to get inducted.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
i believe he was named best player of the 90s by many publications.
NY/NJMFDIVER
Footballguy
We are revising history here. Excellent player, best in the NL, but he didn't make the all-century team, Griff did.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
http://tsn.sportingnews.com/baseball/bonds/qa.htmlthere is one.NY/NJMFDIVER said:
espn didnt name him but i did read this
http://espn.go.com/mlb/s/2000/0419/490908.html
i dont think I am revising history here. I was pretty sure I have heard him referred to as the best player of the decade on more than one occasion.
lets also not forget that Mcqwire was on the all century team.
I totally agree with you. He should be in no matter what.
Ike Turner
Footballguy
If he's indicted by the Mitchell grand jury - banned from baseball, no HoF
If there's no indictment - not a first ballot HoF'er, but can't be denied the hall on his second chance.
If there's no indictment - not a first ballot HoF'er, but can't be denied the hall on his second chance.
No Clemens, No Arod, No Schilling No player from this era then.Hitters were not the only ones who used the roids. Bonds is a 1st time HOF. And the writers will vote him in. When ESPN had their town hall on Bonds. They had polled writers that had a vote and they said they would vote him in on the 1st time
phthalatemagic
Footballguy
Can you be a second time HOF?
opps ment 1st ballet HOF.. .
Actually That may not be correct. When ESPN did the town hall meeting on Bonds they polled the baseball writers and most sayed they would vote him in on the 1st ballet.And the longer time goes on the more the voters will let him in. I understand the old time voters may not but I have a feeling the new voters will be more accepting of him and thats why he is a lock on the 1st ballet
oso diablo
Footballguy
Bonds will get elected easily, on the first ballot, with about 85%. Writers will get their pounds of flesh from a few years of punishing McGwire, and later Palmeiro and Sosa. None of them will be elected before Bonds. But once Bonds goes in, if those other guys haven't slid off the ballot altogether (with less than 5%), the holdouts will then shift their tune, and say "well, if we're going to let Bonds in...". It may not be altogether rational, but that's how it's going to go down.
McGwire will ultimately be elected, 1-2 years after Bonds. Sosa probably as well. Not sure about Palmeiro, despite his numbers.
McGwire will ultimately be elected, 1-2 years after Bonds. Sosa probably as well. Not sure about Palmeiro, despite his numbers.
oso diablo
Footballguy
as for McGwire's 23% showing in his first year, that is not unprecedented. Here are some other luminaries that polled around that figure (less than 33%) in their early ballots, but were ultimately elected...
Johnny Mize
Ralph Kiner
Phil Rizzuto
Arky Vaughan
Duke Snider (actually dropped to 21% in his 2nd ballot)
Eddie Mathews
Orlando Cepeda (19%)
Richie Ashburn
Bruce Sutter
That said, it is apparent that this trend has diminished lately, as writers are coalescing opinions more quickly. That, or those earlier years were backlogged because the writers were so stingy there for a while, and were electing no one.
Johnny Mize
Ralph Kiner
Phil Rizzuto
Arky Vaughan
Duke Snider (actually dropped to 21% in his 2nd ballot)
Eddie Mathews
Orlando Cepeda (19%)
Richie Ashburn
Bruce Sutter
That said, it is apparent that this trend has diminished lately, as writers are coalescing opinions more quickly. That, or those earlier years were backlogged because the writers were so stingy there for a while, and were electing no one.
Koya
Footballguy
Weren't Rizzuto and Vaughan elected by the committee, not ballot?
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Yeah, I know. Got his USA rookie card. Used to be a fan of his. And, he was a good HR hitter before he started roiding (and, this is assuming he wasn't when he was on the Olympic team, started out with the As, etc.). But, I think know it's pretty clear that he wouldn't have hit 70 without the juice, nor would he have accumulated the career totals that he did without it. So, my point is that the only thing he did naturally well kind of gets diminished in my eyes because he invalidated what he might have otherwise done without illegal means. And, the fact that he pedestrian qualities in other aspects of the game makes his Hall prospects pretty suspect, I think.
oso diablo
Footballguy
Koya said:
possibly. maybe that happens for McGwire, et al, too
Koya
Footballguy
My point is that it takes a LOT longer if you don't get elected through the BWA. Would have to wait until they get off the ballot to begin with, and my feeling is that Big Mac and the other roiders will have enough support to keep them on the ballot for a while, even if they don't have enough support to get voted in.Koya said:possibly. maybe that happens for McGwire, et al, too
1huskerfan
Footballguy
Add Cepeda to that list.possibly. maybe that happens for McGwire, et al, too
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
Depends...... McGwire came off as a man with something to hide at the Grand Jury. ( 'm not sure if he out and out lied.....but his response was very dodgy).
On The Rocks
Footballguy
I agree he is a first ballot guy, but I can see him sweating a little just because there will be a ton written the weeks leading up to that ballot putting some doubt in his mind that he will get in.I think McGwire goes in eventually but I think it will take a number of years before he gets enough votes.
On The Rocks
Footballguy
I would go so far as to say that Sosa and Mac saved baseball the year they chased Mantle.
Yeah...I know, no one or two players are bigger than the game, and no two players can really save the game but, the league was circling the drain which is a large part of why Selig turned a blind eye to the whole roid thing.
Fan interest was so bad, I believe Selig was contemplating letting Rose back into baseball just to get the heartbeat of fans interest pumping again.
Mac and Sosa saved Selig from having to make that move.
Does he regret not turning up the heat on the guys that were juicing? Yeah probably a little, but considering the state baseball at the time, I doubt he would have done anything differently.
Yeah...I know, no one or two players are bigger than the game, and no two players can really save the game but, the league was circling the drain which is a large part of why Selig turned a blind eye to the whole roid thing.
Fan interest was so bad, I believe Selig was contemplating letting Rose back into baseball just to get the heartbeat of fans interest pumping again.
Mac and Sosa saved Selig from having to make that move.
Does he regret not turning up the heat on the guys that were juicing? Yeah probably a little, but considering the state baseball at the time, I doubt he would have done anything differently.
1huskerfan
Footballguy
Situational ethics. Gotta love em.
