If Peyton Manning retired today, (1 Viewer)

[brobe4]

Manning=Great Player

It takes the best team in the league to beat this guy.Last three years the superbowl champs have beat him.This makes him a choker!Lot of chokers out there then he just happens to be the best player not to win a superbowl yet that is playing football today.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I was just trying to say that 10 years ago, the "consensus" was that Elway was *incapable* of winning the big one. A year ago, Cowher was *incapable* of winning the big one. Two years ago, Phil Mickelson was a choker who was destined to come up small in big moments. Basically, what I'm trying to get at here is that the general public is stupid and likes to paint pictures in such broad generalized strokes that the end result doesn't remotely resemble reality.

Correct. It's silly to label one person clutch and another person a choker on such a small sample of games. If a few of us flipped coins ten times, at least one of us would totally rule and another would totally suck. It means very little. Manning, if he retired right now, would be criticized a la Ricky Williams -- he should have retired before the draft!

But he'd also be a Hall of Famer.

He's played for only eight years, but he's already got all kinds of career records. He's the only QB in NFL history to throw for 25+ TDs in eight consecutive seasons. He's one of three QBs in NFL history to win the league MVP award in back-to-back seasons. He's got NFL single-season records for most TDs and highest passer rating. Counting the playoffs, he has more "perfect games" (under the passer rating) than any other QB in NFL history. His 34 300+ yard games are fourth-most in NFL history, and his six 400+ yard games are tied for fourth-most in NFL history. He's the only QB in NFL history to have four consecutive 4,000-yard seasons -- or five, or six.

Also, to answer Joe's question, Manning is #1 on the all-time list of passing yards and touchdowns for any QB in his first eight years. (Marino was better on a per-game basis, but he missed nine games in his first eight seasons.)

 

[Colt Of Personality]

I think his carreer at this point is close to Marino - but it's too early to comapre at this point.

Like that quote everyone uses:

"When a team wins, a QB gets too much credit, when the team loses the QB gets too much blame".

 

[H.K.]

I wonder what would have been if Tony Dungy didn't suffer his personal tragedy during the stretch run last year...the Colts were a different team after that.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I wonder what would have been if Tony Dungy didn't suffer his personal tragedy during the stretch run last year...the Colts were a different team after that.

Eh, Dungy doesn't seem to have much of an inpact on the squad. Unlike the Patriots, Indy rises and falls on the back of its quarterback.

 

[nygiants56]

Obviously he didn't have teams good enough to win the Super Bowl, or they would have won it.

Stop riding this dude. It's the same thing as Kobe Bryant. For whatever reason, the meek of the Earth hate the guy for no reason. He's a stud QB. Super Bowls throphies aren't exactly growing on trees.

If he retired today, he would still be one of the greatest QB's to ever suit up. He wouldn't be a winner or a loser, unless you asked all the morons who hate just to hate.

he wouldn't be an all-time great, no way...I don't know if it's a case of people just hatin' on the guy, but, here are some of the reasons why people do:

0-4 vs Florida in college. never won a college championship. Lost both of his High School championships.

If I'm not mistaken , he is 1-7 lifetime vs. NE.

3-6 lifetime playoff record in the NFL.

too many people consider him 'great' but looking at some HOF'ers Peyton falls short in comparison:

Staubach - 18 playoff games, 12-6 record

Plunkett - 10 games, 8-2 record.

Elway - 14-8 ( 22 games)

Aikman - 11-5

Starr - 9-1

Brett Favre 11-9

Tom Brady 10-1

some NOT so great QB's:

Donovan McNabb 7-5

Mark Brunell 5-6

Kordell Stewart 5-4

Steve McNair 5-4

Trent Dilfer 5-1

Jake Delhomme 5-2

Drew Bledsoe 4-3

Ben Roethlisberger 4-1

Vinny Testaverde 3-3

Peyton Manning 3-6

A.J. Feeley 2-2

Matt Hasselback 2-2

Dante Culpepper 2-2

Michael Vick 2-2

Chad Pennington 2-2

Jake Plummer 2-4

he even has a worse playoff record than Kordell Stewart!!!!

and he has the worst winning % of this bunch!!

No, `great` is not a term I'd use when speaking about Peyton Manning but thats just my opinion. He'll be a HOF'er someday but I think he's more like Warren Moon/Dan Fouts-type than a Jim Kelly or Tom Brady or Joe Theismann..

heck, Vinny Testeverde threw for a TON of yards , and might get in the HOF someday, too!

 

[CalBear]

too many people consider him 'great' but looking at some HOF'ers Peyton falls short in comparison:

Staubach - 18 playoff games, 12-6 record

Plunkett - 10 games, 8-2 record.

Elway - 14-8 ( 22 games)

Aikman - 11-5

Starr - 9-1

You're being disingenuous.Other Hall of Famers:

Warren Moon - 3-7

Dan Fouts - 3-3

Dan Marino - 8-10

profootballreference doesn't have playoff results prior to 1975, but I'm sure there are other QBs in there with losing playoff records. It's a factor, but only one of many.

 

[JohnnyU]

I wonder what would have been if Tony Dungy didn't suffer his personal tragedy during the stretch run last year...the Colts were a different team after that.

Eh, Dungy doesn't seem to have much of an inpact on the squad. Unlike the Patriots, Indy rises and falls on the back of its quarterback.

So does that mean that Brady gets too much credit for the Patriots success (see their defense those years), and Manning gets too much criticism? Oh, no one want to see it that way, lol.

 

[H.K.]

I wonder what would have been if Tony Dungy didn't suffer his personal tragedy during the stretch run last year...the Colts were a different team after that.

Eh, Dungy doesn't seem to have much of an inpact on the squad. Unlike the Patriots, Indy rises and falls on the back of its quarterback.

Colts Under Dungy w/Manning

Offense

Points: average NFL ranking: 3

Yards: average NFL ranking: 2

Defense:

Points: average NFL ranking: 14

Yards: average NFL ranking: 16

Colts Under Mora with Manning

Offense

Points: average NFL ranking: 8

Yards: average NFL ranking: 9

Defense:

Points: average NFL ranking: 21

Yards: average NFL ranking: 20

While Manning's improvement has admittedly helped the offesne, Dungy has unarguably put a better all-around team together since he's been there. All I am saying is that the emotional impact and distraction of the death of Dungy's son had to have played at least a small part in the way they finished the season....and it was not a positive effect.

 

[jetpack]

Obviously he didn't have teams good enough to win the Super Bowl, or they would have won it.

Stop riding this dude. It's the same thing as Kobe Bryant. For whatever reason, the meek of the Earth hate the guy for no reason. He's a stud QB. Super Bowls throphies aren't exactly growing on trees.

If he retired today, he would still be one of the greatest QB's to ever suit up. He wouldn't be a winner or a loser, unless you asked all the morons who hate just to hate.

he wouldn't be an all-time great, no way...I don't know if it's a case of people just hatin' on the guy, but, here are some of the reasons why people do:

0-4 vs Florida in college. never won a college championship. Lost both of his High School championships.

If I'm not mistaken , he is 1-7 lifetime vs. NE.

3-6 lifetime playoff record in the NFL.

too many people consider him 'great' but looking at some HOF'ers Peyton falls short in comparison:

Staubach - 18 playoff games, 12-6 record

Plunkett - 10 games, 8-2 record.

Elway - 14-8 ( 22 games)

Aikman - 11-5

Starr - 9-1

Brett Favre 11-9

Tom Brady 10-1

some NOT so great QB's:

Donovan McNabb 7-5

Mark Brunell 5-6

Kordell Stewart 5-4

Steve McNair 5-4

Trent Dilfer 5-1

Jake Delhomme 5-2

Drew Bledsoe 4-3

Ben Roethlisberger 4-1

Vinny Testaverde 3-3

Peyton Manning 3-6

A.J. Feeley 2-2

Matt Hasselback 2-2

Dante Culpepper 2-2

Michael Vick 2-2

Chad Pennington 2-2

Jake Plummer 2-4

he even has a worse playoff record than Kordell Stewart!!!!

and he has the worst winning % of this bunch!!

No, `great` is not a term I'd use when speaking about Peyton Manning but thats just my opinion. He'll be a HOF'er someday but I think he's more like Warren Moon/Dan Fouts-type than a Jim Kelly or Tom Brady or Joe Theismann..

heck, Vinny Testeverde threw for a TON of yards , and might get in the HOF someday, too!

I'll still go with the "everyone is way overthinking this". Manning is the premier qb of this generation. He broke Dan Marino's single season td record. He's got a league MVP. He's got a pretty spectacular regular season record. He's a posterboy for the NFL. Not only that, but if you look at his stats, he's got one of the best 8 year statistically dominant runs ever. It compares favorably to Joe Montana and Brett Favre in their primes (for their eras). Go on and pick 8 consecutive years from either of those players and compare. Outside of Marino, no QB has become so dominant so quickly. If this doesn't qualify as an all-time great, what the heck would? Seems pretty straight forward.

 

[djcolts]

If I'm not mistaken , he is 1-7 lifetime vs. NE.

You're mistaken - that is at Foxboro - not all games vs. NE.

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

I wonder what would have been if Tony Dungy didn't suffer his personal tragedy during the stretch run last year...the Colts were a different team after that.

Eh, Dungy doesn't seem to have much of an inpact on the squad. Unlike the Patriots, Indy rises and falls on the back of its quarterback.

 

[Festivus]

Dan Fouts II

 

[Pat Patriot]

If Vanderjagt makes the field goal, is Manning a better QB?

Who knows? That would have only tied the game. Would they have won? If you tell me that they would win the game then yes he would get credit for manufacturing a pretty good comeback.I only say "pretty good" because the comeback was helped tremendously by the awful call on the Palomalu interception.

Asked another way, would Brady be a worse QB if Vinatieri had missed his game-winning field goals?

Who knows? The games were tied when he attempted the FG's. Brady would have still had a chance to win the game in OT.

I don't believe the Oakland (tuck rule) game was tied. And even still, I would wager a fair amount of money that even if Vinatieri missed those FGs and the other team got the ball in OT and scored before Brady even got on the field that people wouldn't see Brady as a top 2 or 3 NFL QB right now, much less all time. And I doubt you would find much of anyone putting him on the same plane as Manning given that scenario.Yes, Manning had some bad games in their playoff losses. But if you take a look at it Brady has had some playoff clunkers of his own. The difference? In those games where Brady struggled the defense picked him up, allowing less than 10 points in pretty much all of those games. Which brings me to my next point...

As an aspiring statistician I ran some numbers a while back on Mr. Brady. I don't care to dig them up now but I'll give you the gist of it:

-The success of the Patriots has virtually no linear correlation with the success of the Patriots. Brady has done well and the Pats won the Super Bowl, he's done decent and the Pats won the Super Bowl, and he's struggled in some games and the Pats have still won the Super Bowl. Statistically, there is no correlation between the success of Brady and the success of the Patriots.

-There however is a very very very very strong positive linear relationship between the success of the New England defense and the success of the Patriots as a whole. The three years they won the super bowl were the three years they ranked best in defense in the last decade. Of the last 5 years they have only missed the Super Bowl twice, in those two years the Patriots defense was ranked outside the top 15, something the Indy defense has done four of the last five years. Statistically, there is a huge correlation between the success of the defense and the success of the Patriots. As the defense goes, so goes the Patriots.

Sorry, I had to pick myself up off the floor and stop laughing before I could post. This post is wrong in so many ways.1. I was referring to the 2 SB's that were tied before Vinatieri's kick. The Snow Bowl kick against Oakland was obviously the biggest kick that Vinatieri ever made because of the conditions and because the Pats were losing. If Vinatieri misses the regulation kick, the Pats still win 2 SB's in the next 3 years and to think that Brady wouldnt be "on Mannings plane" with 2 bowls, you are crazy.

2. Show me the Brady clunkers? This year against Denver is the only one you could come up with Brady has a 10-1 record and 15-5 TD to Int ratio. Until this year, he never had more Int. than TD's in a playoff game.

3. I know it is a typo but still funny to me. I actually thought the same thing during the first SB run. Brady was a game manager. Although he was clutch in the last 2 minutes, he did not deserve the first SB MVP. That was a defensive victory over the Rams and the MVP probably should have gone to Ty Law. However, he came back and was THE reason that they won the SB over Carolina. He played a GREAT game. Then he played a VERY GOOD game against the Eagles for that SB win. To say the Patriots success does not have a linear connection to Brady is ridiculous.

4. NFL defensive rankings are typically based on yardage. In 2001, the first SB year, the Pats had a bend but dont break defense and were ranked pretty low on defense (in the 20's I believe).

So, therefore, you my friend have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

 

[RAPTURE]

Peyton Manning = Dominique Wilkins

Tom Brady = MJ

RAPTURE

 

[brobe4]

Colts will figure this playoff thing out.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

1. I was referring to the 2 SB's that were tied before Vinatieri's kick. The Snow Bowl kick against Oakland was obviously the biggest kick that Vinatieri ever made because of the conditions and because the Pats were losing. If Vinatieri misses the regulation kick, the Pats still win 2 SB's in the next 3 years and to think that Brady wouldnt be "on Mannings plane" with 2 bowls, you are crazy.

The questions posed was "if Vinatieri missed those kicks". I then said if he had and they had lost those games then etc etc. So what two super bowls are you talking about, we were talking about the condition that they didn't win any of them because the people around him choked. I'm not sure what post you were reading.

However, he came back and was THE reason that they won the SB over Carolina. He played a GREAT game. Then he played a VERY GOOD game against the Eagles for that SB win. To say the Patriots success does not have a linear connection to Brady is ridiculous.

Ok...I get it. Statistical analysis shows very clearly where the correlation is, yet you mention two games and my point is the ridiculous one? Please. Look at 2003, Brady played just as well as he did every other year and they missed the playoffs. The difference? THE DEFENCE.When the defense has been ranked high, they've won Super Bowls. When they're not ranked high, they haven't won Super Bowls. Brady's play has varied season to season and his success has 0 outcome on the outcome of the team from a numbers standpoint. The defense meanwhile has an extremely linear relation with the success of the team through the course of an entire season.

4. NFL defensive rankings are typically based on yardage. In 2001, the first SB year, the Pats had a bend but dont break defense and were ranked pretty low on defense (in the 20's I believe).

I was using points allowed, which seems a much better assessment to me. They ranked 6th that year. Top 6 every year they won a super bowl, outside the top 15 every year they didn't. I think a major difference in what we're seeing is I'm looking more season to season, and you're looking more game to game. TBH I haven't broken it down game by game really, but season to season my point still stands...running simple statistics tests yields that there is no correlation between Brady's play and the Patriots success over the course of the season, and there is a phenominally high correlation between the play of the defense and the Patriots' success over the course of a season.You switch the supporting casts of Manning and Brady the last 5 years and Manning has at least 3 super bowls of his own.

 

[Noahs Troopers]

1. I was referring to the 2 SB's that were tied before Vinatieri's kick. The Snow Bowl kick against Oakland was obviously the biggest kick that Vinatieri ever made because of the conditions and because the Pats were losing. If Vinatieri misses the regulation kick, the Pats still win 2 SB's in the next 3 years and to think that Brady wouldnt be "on Mannings plane" with 2 bowls, you are crazy.

The questions posed was "if Vinatieri missed those kicks". I then said if he had and they had lost those games then etc etc. So what two super bowls are you talking about, we were talking about the condition that they didn't win any of them because the people around him choked. I'm not sure what post you were reading.

However, he came back and was THE reason that they won the SB over Carolina. He played a GREAT game. Then he played a VERY GOOD game against the Eagles for that SB win. To say the Patriots success does not have a linear connection to Brady is ridiculous.

Ok...I get it. Statistical analysis shows very clearly where the correlation is, yet you mention two games and my point is the ridiculous one? Please. Look at 2003, Brady played just as well as he did every other year and they missed the playoffs. The difference? THE DEFENCE.When the defense has been ranked high, they've won Super Bowls. When they're not ranked high, they haven't won Super Bowls. Brady's play has varied season to season and his success has 0 outcome on the outcome of the team from a numbers standpoint. The defense meanwhile has an extremely linear relation with the success of the team through the course of an entire season.

4. NFL defensive rankings are typically based on yardage. In 2001, the first SB year, the Pats had a bend but dont break defense and were ranked pretty low on defense (in the 20's I believe).

I was using points allowed, which seems a much better assessment to me. They ranked 6th that year. Top 6 every year they won a super bowl, outside the top 15 every year they didn't. I think a major difference in what we're seeing is I'm looking more season to season, and you're looking more game to game. TBH I haven't broken it down game by game really, but season to season my point still stands...running simple statistics tests yields that there is no correlation between Brady's play and the Patriots success over the course of the season, and there is a phenominally high correlation between the play of the defense and the Patriots' success over the course of a season.You switch the supporting casts of Manning and Brady the last 5 years and Manning has at least 3 super bowls of his own.

I find it unbelievable that in a post about Peyton "No rings, Choke Artist" Manning that people are actually bashing 3 ring wonderboy Tom Brady. WTF?

 

[Ghost Rider]

FreeBaGeL, are you forgetting that in the Patriots first two Super Bowl wins, the defense collapsed in the 4th quarter (blowing double digit leads in both) and Brady bailed them out both times by leading the offense down the field for wins?

You switch the supporting casts of Manning and Brady the last 5 years and Manning has at least 3 super bowls of his own.

Maybe, maybe not, but keep in mind that Manning has never had to perform in an offense not filled with All-Pro's all over the place. Brady has often excelled with an average RB (except for Dillon in '04) and a good to very good, at best, receivers. Manning has always had James, a top RB, Harrison, a top WR, and very good, at worst, complementary receivers. Brady has proven he can perform at a top level without having top level talent at the other skill positions. Manning never has, so I do not think it is that simple to say what you said.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Switch this, switch that. Tom Brady has 3 rings and Peyton Manning has yet to make it to a Super Bowl.

To say that the success of the Patriots has no correlation to the play of Brady is what is so laughable. I personally feel that points against is a better indication of a defenses strength as opposed to yards allowed but the NFL ranks defenses by yardage. You are just manipulating stats to say what you want them to say. The Patriots were not considered a TOP defense in 2001. They were not considered a top TEAM in 2001. Most people feel they got lucky.

Brady played horribly the first 3 qtrs of the Raiders snow game and I actually thought he should have been lifted at that point. However, he was unbelievable in the 4th quarter of that game to bring them back. Of course the tuck rule play and poor play-calling by Gruden certainly contributed to that victory.

He didnt exactly play a "great" Super Bowl (he should not have been the MVP) but boy was he clutch at the end putting the Pats in position for a makeable FG to win.

Back to point, please name me a SB winner in the past 10 years that didnt have a top 6 defense? Interesting that you use top 6 since it fits your argument.

Brady is a huge reason why the Pats have 3 SB victories, to say otherwise is just silly.

 

[Big Score]

Back to point, please name me a SB winner in the past 10 years that didnt have a top 6 defense?

1999 Rams won a Superbowl with their 7th ranked D.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Also, New England's defense not only finished 6th in points allowed in '01, but their offense, despite starting a first year starter (Brady) for 14 games, also finished 6th in the NFL in points scored.

 

[Limecuda]

Peyton Manning = Dominique Wilkins

Tom Brady = MJ

RAPTURE

That's just crazy. MJ was arguably the greatest to play in the NBA. To compare him to Brady is ridiculous.Merely based on Manning's career thus far he is one of the greatest qbs of all time. While winning a SB is great, Manning has brought a lot to the table and I'm not even a fan of his. SBs are won by team effort. Brady has had a good surrounding cast as has Manning. Brady's has just come through better in the clutch.

 

[Ryan Leaf Superstar]

He would be remembered as a liar. Because just last week he said he wanted to play 8 more years in the NFL.

 

[Phlash]

Kurt Warner = Manning - Longetivity + a Ring baby

Think about that equation for a bit.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Colts will figure this playoff thing out.

No they won't. They already showed they don't have the slightest clue when they paid Wayne like he's Jerry Rice and let Edge get away. They were physically manhandled by Pittsburgh in the playoffs, and they didn't do anything to get bigger and tougher in the trenches in free agency. They won't win a title unless they do.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Peyton Manning = Dominique Wilkins

Tom Brady = MJ

RAPTURE

That's just crazy. MJ was arguably the greatest to play in the NBA. To compare him to Brady is ridiculous.

Brady = John Paxson

 

[Aaronur]

His legacy would be as a choke artist. If he deserves that lable is up to you.

Personaly I think he does, just like everyone else who eventually overcame it deserved it when they did. Lefty, Cower, Bonds. All these guys deserved being labled as Choke artists until they proved they weren't and performed. Manning doesn't have to win the Super Bowl or even get to one. He just has to stop being the reason his team doesn't in the Playoffs.

 

[Mystery Achiever]

He's at a low point in his career in terms of image. It is really bad when they say that Katharine McPhee is the Peyton Manning of American Idol (in terms of coming up small in crunch time).

LOL. I love this since I can't stand either of them. When I saw the thread title, my reaction was very good player who can't get to the big game.

 

[Phlash]

If anything, I'd take Kurt Warner in his prime over Peyton Manning in his prime.

 

[brobe4]

If anything, I'd take Kurt Warner in his prime over Peyton Manning in his prime.

smoke another.

 

[Big Score]

If anything, I'd take Kurt Warner in his prime over Peyton Manning in his prime.

Kurt Warner in his prime;
| Name | G | CMP ATT PCT YARD Y/A TD IN | RSH YARD |+----------------------+----+-------------------------------+--------+| Kurt Warner | 16 | 375 546 68.7 4830 8.8 36 22 | 28 60 |+----------------------+----+-------------------------------+--------+Peyton Manning in his prime;

| Name                 |  G | CMP ATT   PCT YARD  Y/A TD IN | RSH YARD |+----------------------+----+-------------------------------+--------+| Peyton Manning       | 16 | 336 497  67.6 4557  9.2 49 10 |  25   38 |+----------------------+----+-------------------------------+--------+

You know, when I first read Phlash's post, I figured it'd be Manning in a runawy. Manning's got him beat in the TD's and had less interceptions.

Warner had Manning beat in completion % and yardage.

Neither of these guys were / are much at scrambling.

It's pretty darn close really.

 

[Borat]

That's just crazy. MJ was arguably the greatest to play in the NBA. To compare him to Brady is ridiculous.

Merely based on Manning's career thus far he is one of the greatest qbs of all time. While winning a SB is great, Manning has brought a lot to the table and I'm not even a fan of his. SBs are won by team effort. Brady has had a good surrounding cast as has Manning. Brady's has just come through better in the clutch.

If you don't believe Brady is well on his way to becoming one of the best QBs of all time - which is what I got from your post; correct me if I'm wrong - then you simply haven't been paying attention the past 5 years.

 

[beto]

For me

Manning = Fouts

 

[redman]

So he'd be like half a Marino if he hung them up now.

J

Ouch.

 

[Limecuda]

That's just crazy.  MJ was arguably the greatest to play in the NBA.  To compare him to Brady is ridiculous.

Merely based on Manning's career thus far he is one of the greatest qbs of all time.  While winning a SB is great, Manning has brought a lot to the table and I'm not even a fan of his.  SBs are won by team effort.  Brady has had a good surrounding cast as has Manning.  Brady's has just come through better in the clutch.

If you don't believe Brady is well on his way to becoming one of the best QBs of all time - which is what I got from your post; correct me if I'm wrong - then you simply haven't been paying attention the past 5 years.

I have been paying attention. I just do not think he is an elite qb. He is solid and does decent in his scheme. There would not even be a comparison here if the Colt had a SB ring.

 

[kingmalaki]

Choker to me at the moment. I understand that you ned help to win, but Manning has played on some pretty good teams. I label him a choker because he has put up poor numbers when it mattered the most, dating abck to college. Other QB's never got a championship (football is more of a team sport than any other) or didn't win one until they got more help, but I don't recall them blowing it like Manning has in the elimination games. For example, when you looked at Elway's elimination games you said he played like a stud but they lost. When ya look at Mannings you just say he played like crap and they lost.

Kinda like the Karl Malone of football.....

 

[NEUPJ]

The way I see it is, he's been put in an offense stacked with Pro Bowl players at all the skill positions and half the offensive line, he SHOULD put up great numbers. If he wasn't succeeding in that offense then he would be a below average QB. It reminds me of another QB mentioned in this thread Kurt Warner. A QB put into a stacked offense and succeeds in the regular season, NFL MVP too.

Difference with Warner he's been taken out of that type of offense and looks average.

Everyone talked for years and years "if only the Colts had a D they'd win it all easily" they did have the D this year and still lost. Manning & the offense could only score 18 points. To be fair Manning did have a good day stats wise, 290 yards, 1 TD/0 INT, 93 rating. However, if the INT that was called back for no reason held up, it would have gone down as another Manning choke.

2004: Manning played his worst game of the season, 69.3 rating and they lost, only scoring 3 points. 2nd lowest passer rating that season 94.1

2003: Manning played his worst game of the season, 35.5 rating and they lost, only scoring 14 points. 2nd lowest passer rating that season 55.5 in Week 1

2002: Manning played his worst game of the season, 31.2 rating and they lost, scoring 0 points. This is the worst game of Peyton Manning's career to date.

2000: Manning played a decent game, rating 82.0 and they lost. 190 yards passing and 1 TD/0 INT.

Manning has had some great games in the post season, however he's been unable to consistently put up those godly #'s when it really counts. In 3 of those season he's played his worst game of the season and two of the worst games of his career.

He's a first ballot HOF QB and if he doesn't win one, he's going to end up grouped with Marino. Is it fair? Maybe, maybe not.

Football is a team game but when you're the franchise QB and throw up those kind awful numbers in a stacked offense, in the playoffs three years in a row, you deserve what you get.

Edit:

Before people start the Brady stuff back up. His lowest rating in the playoffs: 70.4 in the snow in his first playoff game against Oakland.

70.4

84.3 (injured early in the game)

86.2

73.3

76.1

100.5

92.2

130.5

110.2

116.4

74.0 (loss)

To give credit to Manning, Brady threw for a lot less yards in most those games, I don't have time to type them all out now, but if anyone wants to feel free.

 

[brobe4]

#18 Homer here.He is great player that will be in the hof. He may never get to the superbowl, but this guy can flat out play football.

 

[Ghost Rider]

If anything, I'd take Kurt Warner in his prime over Peyton Manning in his prime.

smoke another.

I recommend you remind yourself what Warner did from '99-'01. He had one of the best three-year stretches any QB has had....EVER.

 

[JohnnyU]

If anything, I'd take Kurt Warner in his prime over Peyton Manning in his prime.

smoke another.

I recommend you remind yourself what Warner did from '99-'01. He had one of the best three-year stretches any QB has had....EVER.

...but Warner has that butch wife. That alone will keep him out of the HOF

 

[Da Guru]

When I see Manning in tight playoff games I see a QB that seems tense.

In the regular season Manning is free wheeling, when the Colts need him to be a winner his body language is that of a loser.

All the pouting and facial expressions is not that of a man you want to lead you into battle.

When the game counts only for stats give me Manning, when I need a guy who will lead a team I would take Tom Brady every day and twice on Sunday!

 

[Footballhead]

If Peyton Manning retired today,, what would his legacy be?

Same as A-Rod's...great regular season guy, w/ great #s, and the kind of guy every GM thinks he wants...

BUT can't get it done when it is most important and there is the most pressure (ie, PLAYOFFS).

I can see this. Until he wins a Super Bowl, he'll be dogged by that. Plus, he's only got 8 years in. So he'd be like half a Marino if he hung them up now.J

Can't get it done when it matters? Is Peyton required to make field goals anf field tackles too? I think his legacy would be one of the best player not having won one, just like Barry Sanders. The stars just haven't align for him yet.

 

[gang-wars]

When I see Manning in tight playoff games I see a QB that seems tense.

In the regular season Manning is free wheeling, when the Colts need him to be a winner his body language is that of a loser.

All the pouting and facial expressions is not that of a man you want to lead you into battle.

When the game counts only for stats give me Manning, when I need a guy who will lead a team I would take Tom Brady every day and twice on Sunday!

If you had to win a game to get to the SB, Manning isn't even in my top 25 QBs of all time. Lets say today, current QBs, win the game you go to the SB, you could choose any QB to start, and you have to bet your house on the outcome.

1. Brady

2. Hasselbeck

3. Favre

4. McNabb

5. Manning

Manning 5 just because unless he's playing Denver, he's like 1-8. He never looks comfortable in the playoffs. He just looks tense. When you watch the game, you just expect him to struggle. Even last year, its like doesn't take his normal drops, he has happy feet, he presses. The body language difference between Brady and Manning is obvious.

Maybe that's all skewed media driven bias, but if I'm betting my house on it, I'd take those 4 QBs right now over Manning. Same thing goes back in the 90s. Elway/Montana/Marino. As a pure passer, Marino is probably the best of the 3. I wouldn't take him over those 2 to win a big game. There's lots of guys I'd take over Marino/Manning to win a big game. Great QBs, but I'm not betting my house on it.

 

[DonnyT33]

Great one who could never win the big game because he just gets to emotional during big games and it causes him to not play well(choke?). The opposite of how Tom Brady acts and reacts in big games due to his incredible emotion control. Something makes sense here because that's what's going on with these two QB's in big games so far in their careers.

 

[djcolts]

Great one who could never win the big game because he just gets to emotional during big games and it causes him to not play well(choke?). The opposite of how Tom Brady acts and reacts in big games due to his incredible emotion control. Something makes sense here because that's what's going on with these two QB's in big games so far in their careers.

Maybe Brady has the emotional control because he knows he has the best coach in the game and he rarely has to throw for 400 yards and 5 TDs to win. When the Pats lost 41-20 to the Colts last season, Brady did not have emotional control - he threw down his water bottle and threw tantrums and did not act like a professional in the post-game press conference.And - I rank Brady as clearly the best QB in the game - but we have to put things in a little perspective here. When he's losing (I know it has been rare) - he reacts just like everyone else.

 

[djcolts]

Great one who could never win the big game because he just gets to emotional during big games and it causes him to not play well(choke?). The opposite of how Tom Brady acts and reacts in big games due to his incredible emotion control. Something makes sense here because that's what's going on with these two QB's in big games so far in their careers.

Maybe Brady has the emotional control because he knows he has the best coach in the game and he rarely has to throw for 400 yards and 5 TDs to win. When the Pats lost 41-20 to the Colts last season, Brady did not have emotional control - he threw down his water bottle and threw tantrums and did not act like a professional in the post-game press conference.And - I rank Brady as clearly the best QB in the game - but we have to put things in a little perspective here. When he's losing (I know it has been rare) - he reacts just like everyone else.

DonnyT33 is right about Manning, though. He presses under pressure and puts way too much on his own shoulders. Manning's frustrating to root for personally - he's the opposite of Reggie Miller - Indianapolis' other sports icon. Reggie had very limited talent and made the most of it - and in the playoffs he came up big time and time again. He never won a title, but he really never had a great team around him (Rik Smits as the 2nd leader scorer - c'mon). Manning is the opposite - and I don't need to further rehash this, but he's still behind Reggie in terms of being Indy's #1 pro athlete until he does something more in the playoffs.

 

[Borat]

That's just crazy.  MJ was arguably the greatest to play in the NBA.  To compare him to Brady is ridiculous.

Merely based on Manning's career thus far he is one of the greatest qbs of all time.  While winning a SB is great, Manning has brought a lot to the table and I'm not even a fan of his.  SBs are won by team effort.  Brady has had a good surrounding cast as has Manning.  Brady's has just come through better in the clutch.

If you don't believe Brady is well on his way to becoming one of the best QBs of all time - which is what I got from your post; correct me if I'm wrong - then you simply haven't been paying attention the past 5 years.

I have been paying attention. I just do not think he is an elite qb. He is solid and does decent in his scheme. There would not even be a comparison here if the Colt had a SB ring.

 

[brobe4]

#18 And the colts have took many roll a coaster rides.The last one about killed me.I do not know what the future has in store for #18 and his fans ,but i can tell you that a late January sunday night game with #18 on the field would be something very special..

 

[Pat Patriot]

Great one who could never win the big game because he just gets to emotional during big games and it causes him to not play well(choke?). The opposite of how Tom Brady acts and reacts in big games due to his incredible emotion control. Something makes sense here because that's what's going on with these two QB's in big games so far in their careers.

Maybe Brady has the emotional control because he knows he has the best coach in the game and he rarely has to throw for 400 yards and 5 TDs to win. When the Pats lost 41-20 to the Colts last season, Brady did not have emotional control - he threw down his water bottle and threw tantrums and did not act like a professional in the post-game press conference.And - I rank Brady as clearly the best QB in the game - but we have to put things in a little perspective here. When he's losing (I know it has been rare) - he reacts just like everyone else.

DJ, I was at the game last year so I didnt see the post game press conference. What did Brady do that wasnt professional? I am curious.