Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
If the Colts don't make the Supe (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bri
- Start date
Football Menace
Footballguy
GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
Footballguy
Of COURSE it has something to do with Dungy - it might not be his fault, but when you're the head coach you definitely share in the responsibility.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I sure hope the OL and coaches have learned how to at least contain the 3-4. If not, that is coaching IMO. Also, Polian has to share in some of the fault, because it's him who is choosing the undersized lineman and linebackers, and shrimp DBs. The only way playing undersized players works is if they can tackle to go along with all that speed. Football is a team game, so no one person is at fault. The entire organization is at fault equally IMO.
Sopranos
Footballguy
Agree 1000%
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Baltimore plays a 46 defense.
Has there been talk of them using 3-4 packages because of Manning or somthing?
They are a versitile and talented defense. They can mix thier personel and scheme at any time if they want to I think.
BTW- Dungy would have another job quite quickly I imagine if the Colts ever did part ways with him.
Has there been talk of them using 3-4 packages because of Manning or somthing?
They are a versitile and talented defense. They can mix thier personel and scheme at any time if they want to I think.
BTW- Dungy would have another job quite quickly I imagine if the Colts ever did part ways with him.
Last edited by a moderator:
JohnnyU
Footballguy
No, the Ravens play a 3-4 defense.Ravens' defense feeds off 2000 unit By DAVID GINSBURG, AP Sports Writer
Wed Jan 10, 4:55 PM ET
OWINGS MILLS, Md. - Ray Lewis literally stood in the middle of the Baltimore Ravens' record-setting defense in 2000. Now he's the centerpiece of a unit that ranked No. 1 in the NFL this season.
ADVERTISEMENT
No team in NFL history allowed fewer points over 16 games than the 2000 Ravens, who also set a league record by permitting only 970 yards rushing. The current defense, however, might be even better.
Lewis, arguably the person best equipped to make that assessment, believes this defense has more versatility. But he won't register his final answer until the 2006 Ravens duplicate the success of the world champions six years ago.
"There are so many different things that we do as a defense right now, and that's why I don't want to compare us to 2000. Because of what we did in 2000, you're only judged if we go win a championship," Lewis said this week. "So, if we win this Super Bowl, then you can put us up there. Right now, we just did what we needed to do to get to where we are."
They've done it with style, too. The Ravens have allowed 201 points, lowest in the league this year and only 36 more than the record-setting defense of 2000. Baltimore finished with a plus-17 turnover differential, a team-record 60 sacks and was the first unit in franchise history to finish as the No. 1 ranked defense in the league.
The current unit has its own personality, but traces its roots to the 2000 defense.
"The heritage we have is there," coach Brian Billick said. "They recognize that."
Rex Ryan was the defensive line coach in 2000 under Marvin Lewis, who put together a 4-3 defense that recorded four shutouts and permitted one touchdown in four postseason games.
"It was probably the most elite 4-3 defense of all time," Ryan said Wednesday.
Working with a more athletic cast of players, Ryan has employed a 3-4 attack that has allowed only 264.1 yards per game, yielded an NFL-low 236 first downs and amassed 28 interceptions.
"Now we're kind of set up where up it's a mix of a lot of different things because of the athletes we have," Ryan said. "It's a little bit more creative than what we had in 2000."
So, which is better?
"I think they're both elite, both outstanding," he said.
The current edition is clearly agile. The tackles on the 2000 team -- Tony Siragusa and Sam Adams -- both weighed well over 330 pounds. Kelly Gregg and rookie Haloti Ngata are not as heavy, but quicker to shed a block.
Plus, this defense has fleet-footed linebackers Bart Scott and Adalius Thomas, whom the Ravens are counting on heavily to hinder Indianapolis quarterback Peyton Manning in Saturday's second-round playoff game.
"They have changed the unit, but I think they know the type of player that they want," Colts coach Tony Dungy said. "They've gotten very versatile guys: Adalius Thomas and Scott. Those guys are exceptional players. They can do a lot of things. They can cover, they can blitz, they can take on guards and take on tight ends. They just are very, very complementary parts."
So is safety Ed Reed, who has more than adequately filled the role Rod Woodson held in 2000.
Chris McAlister was a second-year cornerback on the Super Bowl-winning team. Now he's headed to his third Pro Bowl after picking off a career-high six passes and scoring two touchdowns.
"In all honesty, it's a different group of guys than we had in 2000. We had a lot more veterans around then. I was a baby," he said. "Right now, the feeling in the locker room is that as long as we stay together and do what we've been coached up to do, there's no team out there that can beat us."
The alignment and the names have changed over the past six years, but the one constant of both units is the swagger.
The Ravens didn't think there was an offense that could budge them in 2000, and they certainly don't believe Manning, Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne are going to finesse their way into the end zone Saturday.
"You can be pretty all you want to, but it's going to be a physical ballgame," Lewis said. "We can create a lot of hard matches for a lot of people. It's very difficult right now to defend us. No disrespect to anyone across the league, but we don't really worry about offenses. They have to worry about us because we're coming from so many different ways."
Manning has a pretty good idea what to expect Saturday.
"They're really outstanding in all three phases of defense," Manning said, "so we've got a real big challenge."
I don't disagree with this or much of what was stated above but like it or not NFL teams look for a scapegoat. I wonder if Dungy will be that. People on this board will make Manning the scapegoat but I sure don't "see" the organization doing that. He's kinda like Marty in KC and Cleveland. I don't think Harrison has many years left at this level and there's probably a few more guys like that with free agency and all. "The window" is only so small for winning a Supe. I was thinking the other day how if so, Dungy would throw a giant monkey wrench into coaching searches. Cleveland and NYG for example seem to be sticking with their coach for another year. If they had a shot at him, that might be different. He'd be great for Pittsburgh, just great. Miami is not Tampa but I'm sure those Florida residents have heard plenty of praise about him and would love to have him there too. For the Colts, I'll tell ya what would worry me as a Pats fan, Mike Martz. Geesh that O is great already and if they improve a little.....
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
The switch to the 46 defense happened this offseason and has been employed all season.
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=300533
Like I said they are versitile and can change alignments if they wish as well as disguise thier looks. When I have watched the Ravens they have been using primarily a 46 defense that stacks the line plays man coverage with the corners and relies on Ed Reed to play center field. 4 down linemen and 3 Lbers.
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=300533
Like I said they are versitile and can change alignments if they wish as well as disguise thier looks. When I have watched the Ravens they have been using primarily a 46 defense that stacks the line plays man coverage with the corners and relies on Ed Reed to play center field. 4 down linemen and 3 Lbers.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Well, that article was from a few days ago. I must admit I didn't know for sure, but was only going by what I heard on TV and that article.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
I agree. I don't know if he Martz can, if it's possible, but if anyone could improve it I'd guess it would be him
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
Tom Moore is the OC. He calls the plays. Manning just audibles all the time.
Dungy was brought in to try to build a respectable defense with a low budget, since the Colts spend so much on offense.Overall I'd say he's done a pretty decent job, although he has taken his emphasis on speed over size a little too far.
He somehow had them deal with LJ far better than I expected. We'll see. Regular season didn't look like a decent run D at all
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I am not saying they are neccessarily wrong either. The Ravens stack the line and thier players are so multi faceted that it can have a lot of different looks to it. Suggs can be considered a Lber at times depending on the call. Adalius Thomas can be considered a Dlineman or even a defensive back depending on the call. For example against the Bengals they used Thomas a lot to play bump and run coverage on recievers.
The defense could be described as 2 down linemen and 5 linebackers at other times as well but they all croud the line of scrimage and its very hard to know who is coming and who actualy has coverage responsibilities.If they think the Colts have more problems with a 3-4 zone blitzing look they can work that into it also. Going to be a very interesting game.
freeannyong
Footballguy
This isn't really correct. Polian is drafting the best players to fit Dungy's sytem. His system is undersized lineman, linebackers, and DBs that fly to the ball. Polian has done a very good job drafting and filling the D. How can you argue that Freeny, Mathis, Sanders, and June were not great draft picks? The problem is with the depth, and letting David Thorton go (which Polian has admitted was a HUGE mistake). The D-line had minimal depth to begin with and they lost their two best tackles in the first to weeks in Simon and Reagor. I do think Polian shares some of the blame for giving Stokley a massive contract, but other than that he has done an excellent job in building a D for a team that has a majority of its cap money in the offense. Also, there is no way Dungy is gone until another 3-4 years. The D was decimated by injuries this year and it will give them time to build another D with the cap going up 14 mil over the next 2 years with Manning, Harrison, and Wayne locked in.
Last edited by a moderator:
JohnnyU
Footballguy
You are correct in saying that Polian drafts to fit Dungy's system, so both are to blame for using that system IMO. As far as Freeney and Mathis goes, Freeney is overrated by a long shot. He's more of a liability against the run, and hell, he's not even getting the sacks this year. Mathis is also a liability against the run. True great DEs not only rush the passer with efficiency, but they also hold their own against the run. Neither of the Colts DE can do that. Now I do love Bob Sanders, but with the way he plays to go along with his size, he's always hurt. Yes, you are correct in pointing out the lack of depth, but more importantly is the Colts poor tackling. To be that undersized you have to be able to tackle.
comfortably numb
Footballguy
Dungy=Herm Edwards
Good D coordinator
average head coach
Good D coordinator
average head coach
John Maddens Lunchbox
Footballguy
comfortably numb said:
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Yeah Dungy sure hasn't done much for the Colts defense. 
comfortably numb
Footballguy
No, just being a Jets fan I saw many of Herms mistakes.Personally, I felt he doensn't currently have what it takes to take a team to the next level, and I see the same stlye with Dungy.I hope Dungy can win it all. I am rooting for the Colts, I just think he and Herm are outcoached come playoff time.This year, I like Dungy's game plan in the post season.Ball control.He realizes ball control adds a lot of value to his Defense.comfortably numb said:
David Dodds
Administrator
Why is the standard for Indianapolis that they have to win the SuperBowl or they somehow choked? They were 5 point underdogs in this game yet won. No teams match up to what New England has done. But that doesn't mean the other 31 coaches are horrible.
They have a speed defense. It worked great last year (with minimal injuries). It was horrible this year when injuries depleted the team. Sanders is back and now this defense is playing OK again (still bad at stopping the run, but much better). I personally think Dungy has done a great job holding this team together. They looked pretty awful at the end of the season, but have now won two playoff games (no one thought they could beat Baltimore or shut down Larry Johnson and Dungy's team succeeded on both accounts).
I really don't understand this fire every coach if they don't win the Super Bowl talk every postseason. Coaches that get their teams to the playoffs are probably pretty good with few exceptions. I think Dungy is very good at what he does. With a lot of money tied up in the offense, he has built a fast defense of players that cost a lot less. Can he win a Superbowl with this team structure? Based on success from New England, Philadelphia and the Chargers (who have all built their teams with minimal big contracts), I doubt the Indy blueprint with huge deals to manning, Harrison and Wayne is the way to go. But that is who Indy is. It won't change with a new coach. They generally will need to outscore teams to advance. But the second Indy loses a game they are suppose to lose, I don't understand the Dungy sucks and needs to go chants. He is doing a lot with what he has in Indy.
They have a speed defense. It worked great last year (with minimal injuries). It was horrible this year when injuries depleted the team. Sanders is back and now this defense is playing OK again (still bad at stopping the run, but much better). I personally think Dungy has done a great job holding this team together. They looked pretty awful at the end of the season, but have now won two playoff games (no one thought they could beat Baltimore or shut down Larry Johnson and Dungy's team succeeded on both accounts).
I really don't understand this fire every coach if they don't win the Super Bowl talk every postseason. Coaches that get their teams to the playoffs are probably pretty good with few exceptions. I think Dungy is very good at what he does. With a lot of money tied up in the offense, he has built a fast defense of players that cost a lot less. Can he win a Superbowl with this team structure? Based on success from New England, Philadelphia and the Chargers (who have all built their teams with minimal big contracts), I doubt the Indy blueprint with huge deals to manning, Harrison and Wayne is the way to go. But that is who Indy is. It won't change with a new coach. They generally will need to outscore teams to advance. But the second Indy loses a game they are suppose to lose, I don't understand the Dungy sucks and needs to go chants. He is doing a lot with what he has in Indy.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
Peyton Manning might not have gotten the monkey off his back today but I think Tony Dungy and his coaching staff acquitted themselves VERY well today. Again, Manning didnt play great but converted some key 3rd downs. Dungy judged the tone of todays game well and realized that his D was playing well and putting the game in the hands of his running game and the D was the best move.
I havent been a big Tony Dungy fan but he did a VERY nice job today.
I havent been a big Tony Dungy fan but he did a VERY nice job today.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I totaly agree.I am so tired of people looking for any oportunity to throw Dungy under the bus. What a bunch of haters.
The guy has made every team he has been involved with better period. Look at how much good it did the Bucs to get rid of him.
Capella
Footballguy
Winning a Super Bowl?
ffweasel
Weasel Power
Winning a Super Bowl?
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Keep clinging to that memory. It is the only positive thing you appear to have now and for a very long time ahead.Winning a Super Bowl?
Capella
Footballguy
I'll take 10 years of losing for one Super Bowl win. Ask Philly fans how consistent regular-season success and consistent playoff failures taste. As it is, the Bucs won 11 games and the division last year too.Keep clinging to that memory. It is the only positive thing you appear to have now and for a very long time ahead.Winning a Super Bowl?
But I'm sure "biabreakable" has their next five years all mapped out. 
Last edited by a moderator:
Very true. Dungy may have been able to finally get them there that year, but he wouldn't have had the incredible good fortune to face the team who's playbook he wrote - and for that it paid off to buy Gruden.Winning a Super Bowl?
Capella
Footballguy
You're also forgetting leaving out how Gruden led them to a franchise record amount of regular-season wins and a playoff road victory in Philly (after Dungy's teams got killed there the previous two seasons), but hey, let's not let the facts get in the way of a good story.Very true. Dungy may have been able to finally get them there that year, but he wouldn't have had the incredible good fortune to face the team who's playbook he wrote - and for that it paid off to buy Gruden.Winning a Super Bowl?
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Meh. We have been arguing this same thing for what like 5 years now?I understand your opinion but I strongly disagree with it in regards to Dungy. Don't really want to argue about it again and again. Good luck to the Bucs I hope they can improve thier Oline and let Caddy carry them to some future success. The defense needs to be rebuilt now and I think it would be in a lot better shape if Dungy was still the coach there. Those lost 1st round picks the Bucs gave for Gruden could have helped. Especialy with Dungy's eye for talent there. But its all water under the bridge and we will never know.I am sure even if the Colts win the super bowl this year it still won't put the hate and doubt people have for Dungy to rest. I don't think he ever deserved such derogitory comments such as "dungification" and the like in the 1st place. But people like to drag him through the dirt and place more blame on him than I think he deserves. It bothers me but so be it. I still think he is one of the best coaches in the league period.I'll take 10 years of losing for one Super Bowl win. Ask Philly fans how consistent regular-season success and consistent playoff failures taste. As it is, the Bucs won 11 games and the division last year too.Keep clinging to that memory. It is the only positive thing you appear to have now and for a very long time ahead.Winning a Super Bowl?
Capella
Footballguy
There's no argument that you can make that will go against the fact that the Bucs (with Dungy), and with pretty much the same team got blown out in Philly in the playoffs two straight years and then won the next year up there with Gruden at the helm. Dungy would not have won that game. I don't know what else to tell you.I'm happy he's winning, I hope he wins the Super Bowl this year, but I'm glad he got fired and replaced with Gruden because it brought a trophy to Tampa. And I'd much rather have that then a string of 11-5 seasons that ended too early because the team gripped up in the postseason.There's a lot of reasons the Bucs aren't having a lot of success right now. Many of them have to do with draft picks given to Oakland, draft picks spent on bad players, cap problems that even Dungy himself would not be able to avoid, and most recently, a very very bad decision to go with a rookie at QB when a somewhat capable player sat on the bench. Some of those are Gruden's fault, some are the Bruce Allen's, but no matter the case Gruden cashed in on a lot of potential that Dungy was never able to do. And I'm thankful for that, even if a lot of bandwagon Bucs fans no longer are.Meh. We have been arguing this same thing for what like 5 years now?I understand your opinion but I strongly disagree with it in regards to Dungy. Don't really want to argue about it again and again. Good luck to the Bucs I hope they can improve thier Oline and let Caddy carry them to some future success. The defense needs to be rebuilt now and I think it would be in a lot better shape if Dungy was still the coach there. Those lost 1st round picks the Bucs gave for Gruden could have helped. Especialy with Dungy's eye for talent there. But its all water under the bridge and we will never know.I am sure even if the Colts win the super bowl this year it still won't put the hate and doubt people have for Dungy to rest. I don't think he ever deserved such derogitory comments such as "dungification" and the like in the 1st place. But people like to drag him through the dirt and place more blame on him than I think he deserves. It bothers me but so be it. I still think he is one of the best coaches in the league period.I'll take 10 years of losing for one Super Bowl win. Ask Philly fans how consistent regular-season success and consistent playoff failures taste. As it is, the Bucs won 11 games and the division last year too.Keep clinging to that memory. It is the only positive thing you appear to have now and for a very long time ahead.Winning a Super Bowl?
Last edited by a moderator:
