If Vick was signed by your team (1 Viewer)

[renesauz]

How many of the animals he willingly tortured got a second chance? he had his chance and blew it now its time for him to move on and be an example for others that decide to ruin their lives by stupid decisions.

What Vick did is not okay in the slightest but he's hardly the poster boy of punks in the NFL.

For torturing dogs...no. But you do realize he had a full-fledged business, right? And that business was, in the strictest sense of the word, organized crime, right? That he was a major player in interstate gambling rings...right? That people at the upper levels of crime rings of this nature are in fact, poster boys of punks (at their best!!!!).....RIGHT????Seriously....I voted that he deserves a chance to come back. He did hs time...but lets NOT pretend that he "wasn't such a bad guy".

 

[GregR_2]

My take on a couple of oft-repeated positions.

"He paid his debt to society" -- This has nothing to do with an NFL suspension. The NFL isn't in the job of handing out punishments because they want to see people pay their debt to society. The NFL hands out discipline for employees harming the business, same as any other business does. They use the punishment as a way of mollifying their customers. If the fans didn't care about having athletes engaging in constant criminal acts, there wouldn't be any punishments. I think Vick deserves at least a year's suspension not only for the extreme negative publicity, but for lying to the league about his actions and for his involvement with illegal gambling. After any such suspension is served, I think he should be allowed to play again.

"Vick vs Leonard Little" -- I think others have already hit the high points here. Little is obviously a scumbag too. But if one wants to try to make a point in such a comparison, you aren't going to get anywhere with just "But Vick hurt a dog and Little hurt a human". Because what makes most people aghast at what Vick did was his willful and even-minded intent to engage in an act that created pain and suffering in other living creatures. By no means is this defending Little's actions, but someone who wants to draw a comparison between the reaction to the two needs to actually address what drives the strong negative reaction to what Vick did. And that intent is generally missing from other situations you can compare it to.

At which point I'll further repeat, the NFL disciplines for harming the NFL, not to make employees pay a debt to society. It should be expected that any punishment given out is going to be driven by the harm done to the NFL by the actions, and how much the punishment will go towards repairing that harm through gaining approval of the NFL's customers. Clearly Vick's action caused the NFL much more bad publicity than did Little's. And I think it's probably also clear that NFL customers would view more favorably a sterner punishment of Vick than of Little, so it should absolutely not come as a surprise if Vick's punishment turns out to be more.

 

[Mark Wimer]

How many of the animals he willingly tortured got a second chance? he had his chance and blew it now its time for him to move on and be an example for others that decide to ruin their lives by stupid decisions.

Exactly. And I hate when people say "he paid his debt to society". Really? You mean when a person goes to prison, that is their debt and not their punishment? Vick got punished by the LAW. His debt to society would be to open an animal shelter or something. The NFL should at LEAST suspend him for a full season. Once he TRUELY pays his debt to society (by doing something FOR society, and not just being punished in jail), then he should POSSIBLY be considered for reinstatment. To answer the question in the poll, I would absolutely HATE the Bills for signing him. Id root for them, but Id also root for him to get hurt every single play.

Actually, all the dogs they seized at the compund were given second chances. The show Dogtown on National Geographic Channel covered the place where many (maybe all, not sure, show was on a while ago) of the Vick dogs were rehabilitated. They had a lot of success with them too. "Debt to Society" is a term to refer paying the penalties you get assigned by our legal system: Jail, prison, parole, work release, community service, etc. In Vicks case, not only did that involve prison time, but he's forfeited a fortune, both in his contract and endorsement deals, neither of which he will ever be able to re-coup. If the courts have imposed no more penalties on him, then he has paid his debt. Working with the SPCA (as he was rumored to be doing, no idea if that actually panned out), doing anti-dog fighting talks and commercials, etc. are a good way to show he's changed his thinking on the subject and hopefully prevent anyone emulating his past actions. But his "debt to sociecty" has been paid. For those that think its not enough, talk to your local/state/federal lawmakers to make punishments for these things harsher.

As for the poll, I would root for my team, root for him to do well, and watch for signs he has rehabilitated so I can root for him as a person. He certainly deserves another shot, unless we want to bar all serious criminals from the league. It'd be blatant hypocrisy to bar him from the league when guys like Little, et al are still playing. That said, if I was an owner thinking of signing him, there'd be something in his contract requiring some charity work related to his crime, to hopefully prevent such awful abuse of animals by others.

Here's where I disagree with your analysis. Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson were both barred from MLB for life for similar gambling related scandals. Many believe that Michael Jordan's sojourn in the minor league baseball system was due to the NBA discovering his big gambling habit and wanting to shield the league from any appearance of impropriety. Art Schlichter was banned indefinitely from the NFL for his involvement with illegal gamblers because gambling in any form is expressly forbiddeen to the players by the NFL and because he reported to the NFL he feared his gambling associates would force him to throw games to cover his gambling debts. Schlichter was reinstated after one year but never amounted to anything at the NFL level and was soon out of the league.

Clearly, an indefinite suspension of Mike Vick for his infractions of the NFL's absolute ban on gambling by its' players is warranted and has precedent, regardless of any legal or personal penalties that Mike Vick has suffered due to his illegal dogfighting/gambling ring as a result of his convictions.

The league's decision to suspend or not suspend Vick is not dependant on whether or not he suffered any criminal or civil penalties for his actions, as he has publicly admitted to, and his co-defendants have publicly detailed, his large, illegal bets with illegal gamblers while running his dogfighting operation. It is indisputable that he did violate the league's prohibition on gambling.

 

[Red Herring]

How many of the animals he willingly tortured got a second chance? he had his chance and blew it now its time for him to move on and be an example for others that decide to ruin their lives by stupid decisions.

Exactly. And I hate when people say "he paid his debt to society". Really? You mean when a person goes to prison, that is their debt and not their punishment? Vick got punished by the LAW. His debt to society would be to open an animal shelter or something. The NFL should at LEAST suspend him for a full season. Once he TRUELY pays his debt to society (by doing something FOR society, and not just being punished in jail), then he should POSSIBLY be considered for reinstatment. To answer the question in the poll, I would absolutely HATE the Bills for signing him. Id root for them, but Id also root for him to get hurt every single play.

Actually, all the dogs they seized at the compund were given second chances. The show Dogtown on National Geographic Channel covered the place where many (maybe all, not sure, show was on a while ago) of the Vick dogs were rehabilitated. They had a lot of success with them too. "Debt to Society" is a term to refer paying the penalties you get assigned by our legal system: Jail, prison, parole, work release, community service, etc. In Vicks case, not only did that involve prison time, but he's forfeited a fortune, both in his contract and endorsement deals, neither of which he will ever be able to re-coup. If the courts have imposed no more penalties on him, then he has paid his debt. Working with the SPCA (as he was rumored to be doing, no idea if that actually panned out), doing anti-dog fighting talks and commercials, etc. are a good way to show he's changed his thinking on the subject and hopefully prevent anyone emulating his past actions. But his "debt to sociecty" has been paid. For those that think its not enough, talk to your local/state/federal lawmakers to make punishments for these things harsher.

As for the poll, I would root for my team, root for him to do well, and watch for signs he has rehabilitated so I can root for him as a person. He certainly deserves another shot, unless we want to bar all serious criminals from the league. It'd be blatant hypocrisy to bar him from the league when guys like Little, et al are still playing. That said, if I was an owner thinking of signing him, there'd be something in his contract requiring some charity work related to his crime, to hopefully prevent such awful abuse of animals by others.

Here's where I disagree with your analysis. Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson were both barred from MLB for life for similar gambling related scandals. Many believe that Michael Jordan's sojourn in the minor league baseball system was due to the NBA discovering his big gambling habit and wanting to shield the league from any appearance of impropriety. Art Schlichter was banned indefinitely from the NFL for his involvement with illegal gamblers because gambling in any form is expressly forbiddeen to the players by the NFL and because he reported to the NFL he feared his gambling associates would force him to throw games to cover his gambling debts. Schlichter was reinstated after one year but never amounted to anything at the NFL level and was soon out of the league.

Clearly, an indefinite suspension of Mike Vick for his infractions of the NFL's absolute ban on gambling by its' players is warranted and has precedent, regardless of any legal or personal penalties that Mike Vick has suffered due to his illegal dogfighting/gambling ring as a result of his convictions.

The league's decision to suspend or not suspend Vick is not dependant on whether or not he suffered any criminal or civil penalties for his actions, as he has publicly admitted to, and his co-defendants have publicly detailed, his large, illegal bets with illegal gamblers while running his dogfighting operation. It is indisputable that he did violate the league's prohibition on gambling.

This is where we need to know what the gambling actually entailed. Was it bets on dogs or was he betting on football, or worse on his own team? If he gambled on football, especially on his own team, then I would agree he deserves a ban, ala Rose and Jackson. If he was placing bets on other sports, cards, dogfighting, etc. a time out would be deserved, ala Jordan. While Jordan did time in the minors, Vick did time in Leavenworth, which are probably about equal . Do you have specifics on what he was gambling on? That will probably be a deciding factor on the commish reinstating him.

 

[Truman]

My take on a couple of oft-repeated positions."He paid his debt to society" -- This has nothing to do with an NFL suspension. The NFL isn't in the job of handing out punishments because they want to see people pay their debt to society. The NFL hands out discipline for employees harming the business, same as any other business does. They use the punishment as a way of mollifying their customers. If the fans didn't care about having athletes engaging in constant criminal acts, there wouldn't be any punishments. I think Vick deserves at least a year's suspension not only for the extreme negative publicity, but for lying to the league about his actions and for his involvement with illegal gambling. After any such suspension is served, I think he should be allowed to play again."Vick vs Leonard Little" -- I think others have already hit the high points here. Little is obviously a scumbag too. But if one wants to try to make a point in such a comparison, you aren't going to get anywhere with just "But Vick hurt a dog and Little hurt a human". Because what makes most people aghast at what Vick did was his willful and even-minded intent to engage in an act that created pain and suffering in other living creatures. By no means is this defending Little's actions, but someone who wants to draw a comparison between the reaction to the two needs to actually address what drives the strong negative reaction to what Vick did. And that intent is generally missing from other situations you can compare it to. At which point I'll further repeat, the NFL disciplines for harming the NFL, not to make employees pay a debt to society. It should be expected that any punishment given out is going to be driven by the harm done to the NFL by the actions, and how much the punishment will go towards repairing that harm through gaining approval of the NFL's customers. Clearly Vick's action caused the NFL much more bad publicity than did Little's. And I think it's probably also clear that NFL customers would view more favorably a sterner punishment of Vick than of Little, so it should absolutely not come as a surprise if Vick's punishment turns out to be more.

It already has been more. Vick was suspended indefinitely when charges were laid, he's been suspended for coming up on 2 years at this point. The only ones treated more harshly than this (relative to their convictions) have been Chris Henry, Pacman Jones and Odell Thurman.

 

[Truman]

How many of the animals he willingly tortured got a second chance? he had his chance and blew it now its time for him to move on and be an example for others that decide to ruin their lives by stupid decisions.

Exactly. And I hate when people say "he paid his debt to society". Really? You mean when a person goes to prison, that is their debt and not their punishment? Vick got punished by the LAW. His debt to society would be to open an animal shelter or something. The NFL should at LEAST suspend him for a full season. Once he TRUELY pays his debt to society (by doing something FOR society, and not just being punished in jail), then he should POSSIBLY be considered for reinstatment. To answer the question in the poll, I would absolutely HATE the Bills for signing him. Id root for them, but Id also root for him to get hurt every single play.

Actually, all the dogs they seized at the compund were given second chances. The show Dogtown on National Geographic Channel covered the place where many (maybe all, not sure, show was on a while ago) of the Vick dogs were rehabilitated. They had a lot of success with them too. "Debt to Society" is a term to refer paying the penalties you get assigned by our legal system: Jail, prison, parole, work release, community service, etc. In Vicks case, not only did that involve prison time, but he's forfeited a fortune, both in his contract and endorsement deals, neither of which he will ever be able to re-coup. If the courts have imposed no more penalties on him, then he has paid his debt. Working with the SPCA (as he was rumored to be doing, no idea if that actually panned out), doing anti-dog fighting talks and commercials, etc. are a good way to show he's changed his thinking on the subject and hopefully prevent anyone emulating his past actions. But his "debt to sociecty" has been paid. For those that think its not enough, talk to your local/state/federal lawmakers to make punishments for these things harsher.

As for the poll, I would root for my team, root for him to do well, and watch for signs he has rehabilitated so I can root for him as a person. He certainly deserves another shot, unless we want to bar all serious criminals from the league. It'd be blatant hypocrisy to bar him from the league when guys like Little, et al are still playing. That said, if I was an owner thinking of signing him, there'd be something in his contract requiring some charity work related to his crime, to hopefully prevent such awful abuse of animals by others.

Here's where I disagree with your analysis. Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson were both barred from MLB for life for similar gambling related scandals. Many believe that Michael Jordan's sojourn in the minor league baseball system was due to the NBA discovering his big gambling habit and wanting to shield the league from any appearance of impropriety.

Those people probably also believe the reason Vick went to jail for 2 years was for the same reason.

 

[Zimm]

Well if he went to my team i honestly wouldn't care. Do i think he should be back in the NFL? No i do not but on the bright side i could find an easy way to get rid of my g/f's annoying dog.

 

[Truman]

How many of the animals he willingly tortured got a second chance? he had his chance and blew it now its time for him to move on and be an example for others that decide to ruin their lives by stupid decisions.

Exactly. And I hate when people say "he paid his debt to society". Really? You mean when a person goes to prison, that is their debt and not their punishment? Vick got punished by the LAW. His debt to society would be to open an animal shelter or something. The NFL should at LEAST suspend him for a full season. Once he TRUELY pays his debt to society (by doing something FOR society, and not just being punished in jail), then he should POSSIBLY be considered for reinstatment. To answer the question in the poll, I would absolutely HATE the Bills for signing him. Id root for them, but Id also root for him to get hurt every single play.

Actually, all the dogs they seized at the compund were given second chances. The show Dogtown on National Geographic Channel covered the place where many (maybe all, not sure, show was on a while ago) of the Vick dogs were rehabilitated. They had a lot of success with them too. "Debt to Society" is a term to refer paying the penalties you get assigned by our legal system: Jail, prison, parole, work release, community service, etc. In Vicks case, not only did that involve prison time, but he's forfeited a fortune, both in his contract and endorsement deals, neither of which he will ever be able to re-coup. If the courts have imposed no more penalties on him, then he has paid his debt. Working with the SPCA (as he was rumored to be doing, no idea if that actually panned out), doing anti-dog fighting talks and commercials, etc. are a good way to show he's changed his thinking on the subject and hopefully prevent anyone emulating his past actions. But his "debt to sociecty" has been paid. For those that think its not enough, talk to your local/state/federal lawmakers to make punishments for these things harsher.

As for the poll, I would root for my team, root for him to do well, and watch for signs he has rehabilitated so I can root for him as a person. He certainly deserves another shot, unless we want to bar all serious criminals from the league. It'd be blatant hypocrisy to bar him from the league when guys like Little, et al are still playing. That said, if I was an owner thinking of signing him, there'd be something in his contract requiring some charity work related to his crime, to hopefully prevent such awful abuse of animals by others.

Here's where I disagree with your analysis. Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson were both barred from MLB for life for similar gambling related scandals. Many believe that Michael Jordan's sojourn in the minor league baseball system was due to the NBA discovering his big gambling habit and wanting to shield the league from any appearance of impropriety. Art Schlichter was banned indefinitely from the NFL for his involvement with illegal gamblers because gambling in any form is expressly forbiddeen to the players by the NFL and because he reported to the NFL he feared his gambling associates would force him to throw games to cover his gambling debts. Schlichter was reinstated after one year but never amounted to anything at the NFL level and was soon out of the league.

Clearly, an indefinite suspension of Mike Vick for his infractions of the NFL's absolute ban on gambling by its' players is warranted and has precedent, regardless of any legal or personal penalties that Mike Vick has suffered due to his illegal dogfighting/gambling ring as a result of his convictions.

The league's decision to suspend or not suspend Vick is not dependant on whether or not he suffered any criminal or civil penalties for his actions, as he has publicly admitted to, and his co-defendants have publicly detailed, his large, illegal bets with illegal gamblers while running his dogfighting operation. It is indisputable that he did violate the league's prohibition on gambling.

You're taking this down a very strange path now. Last offseason Joey Porter and his boys jumped Levi Jones in a casino. Gambling is obviously not forbidden to NFL players, I'm sure I've seen some involved in poker promotions as well.

 

[Instinctive]

At least in my eyes, Vick is basically a monster. A person that can just break a dog's back, apparently without pangs of sympathy for this suffering creature, is pretty scary. He's done his time and is now free to seek employment wherever he wants, but I wouldn't want my team to sign him and I won't root for him wherever he goes.

Agree. And as I pointed out in another thread, criminal histories routinely follow people for the rest of their lives, even after they are out of prison. Job applications make you disclose your criminal record and people are denied jobs every single day based on this. I have no problem with Vick being denied another opportunity at fame and fortune. He had everything and squandered it away, he can now get a "real job" like any other ex-con. In the end, the NFL is an entertainment product. Michael Vick is no longer a marketable commodity for the NFL, so I really don't expect any team to take a chance on him. It would be a PR nightmare.

What about the people who electrocute cows? What about the people who hunt foxes and other animals for pelts using chain traps that leave the animal in agonizing pain for hours from trap time to when the hunter finishes it off? WHat about the people who poison rats? What about the people who race horses until shoes fall off legs break and they mak ethe hors einto dog food?I don't like Vick. But he is exciting to watch, he can help a team especially with the new Wildcat formations, and what he did is no worse than many other things. Just because the ignorant housepet lovers have louder voices thna other groups does not mena this man should have his life destroyed. (that is, destroyed more after an undeservedly long prison sentence)

Nice hyperbole but none of it has anything to do with my post. If you look closely you'll see that I while I agreed with a previous post stating Vick was a monster, I did not use my opinion as reasoning to ban him. I simply addressed the idea that he has "paid his debt", which is true for his debt to the penal system but overlooks the fact that criminals often pay a larger debt to society long after their prison term is up. Hunting, pest control and the meat industry are a far cry from willfully torturing animals for no purpose outside of sick (and illegal) entertainment value. Nice attempt at a straw man, though.

You misread me.He hsouldn't have a debt to society. And the stupid media circus is incorrect about the extent to which a dog is tortured in a dogfighting ring. It is acceptable by law when killing an animal to do it any way which is quick and causes little pain. Take a look at this link, actually read it, and then tell me if you even think there is a debt to society, or whether its another stupid "my group of minority people yells louder than everyone else"

http://zealotsfield.invisionzone.com/index...showtopic=24828

 

[Incogneto]

Is Kool-aid Larry an alias for Larry-Boy?

 

[notdarkyet]

All I can really say is I sure hope Carson is healthy all season.

Yes, he served his time. He has the right to seek employment. I have the right to not pay for his product or the team he represent's product. Fairly straight forward.

No I do not believe his short stay in prison rehabilitated him. He didn't have a lack of judgment, this wasn't a simple mistake. This was established behavior for a long period of time. He is still a scumbag. And telling me there are other scumbags in the league won't change that fact.

But the bottom line is that he wasnt a very good QB in the first damn place. How is he going to be after a 2yr vacation of not throwing and being in football shape?

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

All I can really say is I sure hope Carson is healthy all season.Yes, he served his time. He has the right to seek employment.

Actually, he already has a job, so that little problem's been solved.

 

[brutha]

I would not root for my team during the duration of his stay.

a voice of logic among a lot of madness, IMO.PS people, Little has NOTHING to do w/this. apples and oranges and 2 wrongs don't make a right and so on. that's sort of like saying "hey this guy murdered someone so stop hating on that guy who only raped someone." WTF?vick is total slime, period, and I would wish for my team to lose every game he is a member there and might just stop rooting for them for good. hell I might just abandon the NFL outright, esp the way it's going anyway with all the thugs and ridiculous garbage. I thought Godell was supposed to be mr tough guy about all that?also I find it extremely sad, disgusting and pathetic that the league and many others care more that he was gambling vs his extreme and grossly numerous brutalities towards so many animals.

 

[brutha]

All I can really say is I sure hope Carson is healthy all season.Yes, he served his time. He has the right to seek employment. I have the right to not pay for his product or the team he represent's product. Fairly straight forward. No I do not believe his short stay in prison rehabilitated him. He didn't have a lack of judgment, this wasn't a simple mistake. This was established behavior for a long period of time. He is still a scumbag. And telling me there are other scumbags in the league won't change that fact.But the bottom line is that he wasnt a very good QB in the first damn place. How is he going to be after a 2yr vacation of not throwing and being in football shape?

right on!

 

[money.never.sleeps]

It's funny to me, that some fans get so upset at the prospect of a "scumbag" playing for their favorite team. Personally I don't want to know very much about professional athletes off the field, because I understand that these guys are merely entertainers, who just happen to be the best at playing a game. Unfortunately professional sports is littered with individuals who could be characterized as "scumbags", and even many of the guys who appear to have positive images, have terrible flaws. No matter how much I appreciate someone's athletic abilities or accomplishments, that doesn't make them worthy of idol worship, and it doesn't make them a role model.

IMO if you really want to enjoy pro sports, then you have to separate your rooting passions from your feelings about individual players away from the game. Otherwise, be prepared for immense disappointment.

I agree for the majority but if you're playing fantasy sprots for $$$ you want to have an idea about the guys characteristics. I do agree that it's impossible to really know any of these guys no matter how positive they seem. Though Mike Vick has had problems for awhile I still would root for the guy in regards to helping my team win. I may not agree with the person he is but like I said before.. thinking we know any of these guys is ridiculous. They get paid to do charity/appearances and so on so who knows. Very few go above and beyond with genuine care IMO which is fine but I'm def. not going to think anything other than good deed.And no matter what you or I feel these Pro's are role models to a certain extent. As long as they're not a childs top role model (parents, teachers, coaches) I have no problem with a kid wanting to aspire athletically/scholastically(certain college) to whoever. But it's def. a fine line.

I think the topic of what Vick did is ultra sensitive and by the posts most will hate/root for guy but IMO he has served his due and should be reinstated without suspension. He has done what was asked of him from the judicial system and if he complies with Goodell then Im fine with him coming back right away.

 

[Manster]

we just got rid of TO and pacman. i'd be very disappointed it the Cowboys signed vick. and besides, when the Cowboys get a "character issue" guy vs. another team getting the same player, a much bigger deal is made of it.

i dont see it happening anyway.

that said, i voted he should be able to play again. he deserves another chance. but if he screws up, he's gone. thats the problem with pro sports. guys get multiple chances. you should get one 2nd chance, period. turds like pacman would go away.

 

[Manster]

It's funny to me, that some fans get so upset at the prospect of a "scumbag" playing for their favorite team. Personally I don't want to know very much about professional athletes off the field, because I understand that these guys are merely entertainers, who just happen to be the best at playing a game. Unfortunately professional sports is littered with individuals who could be characterized as "scumbags", and even many of the guys who appear to have positive images, have terrible flaws. No matter how much I appreciate someone's athletic abilities or accomplishments, that doesn't make them worthy of idol worship, and it doesn't make them a role model.

IMO if you really want to enjoy pro sports, then you have to separate your rooting passions from your feelings about individual players away from the game. Otherwise, be prepared for immense disappointment.

I agree for the majority but if you're playing fantasy sprots for $$$ you want to have an idea about the guys characteristics. I do agree that it's impossible to really know any of these guys no matter how positive they seem. Though Mike Vick has had problems for awhile I still would root for the guy in regards to helping my team win. I may not agree with the person he is but like I said before.. thinking we know any of these guys is ridiculous. They get paid to do charity/appearances and so on so who knows. Very few go above and beyond with genuine care IMO which is fine but I'm def. not going to think anything other than good deed.And no matter what you or I feel these Pro's are role models to a certain extent. As long as they're not a childs top role model (parents, teachers, coaches) I have no problem with a kid wanting to aspire athletically/scholastically(certain college) to whoever. But it's def. a fine line.

I think the topic of what Vick did is ultra sensitive and by the posts most will hate/root for guy but IMO he has served his due and should be reinstated without suspension. He has done what was asked of him from the judicial system and if he complies with Goodell then Im fine with him coming back right away.

these guys are role models to kids. no one is perfect. but a turd is a turd.these guys are in a unique position to influence kids in a positive way. many do. many choose to be involved in dog fighting rings. i'm pretty sure if you took a cross section of the guys in the NFL you'd find a fair amount of good guys.

 

[habsfan]

On the question of "When can Vick be forgiven/considered to have paid his debt to society/be deserving of another chance etc?" there is a contingent for whom the answer is "never". There is simply no amount of time that can pass, penance paid or remorse shown that will change their minds. I understand the emotion that drives this opinion but the opinion is not a particularly useful one unless we're prepared as a society, to invoke corporal punishment for situations like this.

 

[The Future Champs]

Just a couple of quick thoughts; I'll skip the huge quotes.

1. Prison isn't about rehab. Halfway houses serve that purpose. Prison is for punishment and deterrence.

2. I'll never forgive Vick, as I think his crime was completely deliberate and premeditated, and that he wasn't forced by circumstances into dogfighting. (I don't buy the "forced into crime" excuse anyways, but I'll allow it as a mediating factor when applicable.)

2a. I realize that Vick probably doesn't care about my forgiveness.

2b. Why is my opinion not "useful" if I'm in the "never" category? Am I not useful b/c you can't use me?

3. I voted to allow him back into the NFL. I intend to boo every chance I get. If enough of us do that, then that'll be a great little lesson about character and society for the kids.

4. Do you really think he's rehabbed? Would you be happy to leave him in charge of your house and kids. (and pets)

 

[Mark Wimer]

You're taking this down a very strange path now. Last offseason Joey Porter and his boys jumped Levi Jones in a casino. Gambling is obviously not forbidden to NFL players, I'm sure I've seen some involved in poker promotions as well.

NFLPA CBA with the NFL Page 176 of 210, item #15 Integrity of the Game:

15. INTEGRITY OF GAME. Player recognizes the detriment to the League and professional football that

would result from impairment of public confidence in the honest and orderly conduct of NFL games or the

integrity and good character of NFL players. Player therefore acknowledges his awareness that if he accepts a

bribe or agrees to throw or fix an NFL game; fails to promptly report a bribe offer or an attempt to throw or fix

an NFL game; bets on an NFL game; knowingly associates with gamblers or gambling activity; uses or

provides other players with stimulants or other drugs for the purpose of attempting to enhance on-field

performance; or is guilty of any other form of conduct reasonably judged by the League Commissioner to be

detrimental to the League or professional football, the Commissioner will have the right, but only after giving

Player the opportunity for a hearing at which he may be represented by counsel of his choice, to fine Player in a

reasonable amount; to suspend Player for a period certain or indefinitely; and/or to terminate this contract.

Guess I'm not taking this down a strange path, huh?

 

[ozark]

Mods -- could we get a stickied Vick up top to merge all these threads into?

No, unfortunately the merging sorts the posts by date and time and there are so many Vick threads it would become quickly incomprehensible. Oh, and Vick should be barred from the NFL for life, but not for the dogfighting. The larger (and largely ignored issue) is that he consorted with known illegal gamblers and illegally gambled across state lines. This is EXPRESSLY forbidden by the NFL and Vick lied to the commissioner's face about his involvement with illegal gambling rings. It is but a short jump given his manifest inconsistency from week to week to conclude that he was throwing games for the benefit of illegal gamblers to whom he owed money.

And even if he never did throw a game, the appearance of impropriety is undeniable and his guilt or innocence in the matter can NEVER be determined.

The integrity of the league in this matter is more important than "giving Mike Vick another chance after he paid his debt to society".

Follow the MONEY................Vick is what he is........ A scumbag but, as long as we (I have PSL's to the Rams games) spend our MONEY to support these teams.......... win at any cost........... is the name of the game. If and a big IF, he is reinstated, some team will believe he can help them win. I agree that the BIGGER picture here is his ties to the gambling community plus his deep character defects. Would add one additional point; Lots of fans in the DC/Va; Atlanta area ? --- how many of these 'fans' BUY tickets to the games ?

 

[habsfan]

2a. Why is my opinion not "useful" if I'm in the "never" category? Am I not useful b/c you can't use me?

It's not useful because it doesn't lead to a practical "way forward" for Vick or others like him. Forgiveness is a feeling, so you can feel however you like. Shock, outrage, anger, disgust are perfectly appropriate feelings to have about Vick but they don't inform what society or football are going to do with the guy.. short of executing him or imprisoning him for life. There are people who absolutely feel he should be dealt with in a manner consistent with how he treated those dogs. I get the emotion behind that but it isn't going to help Goodell, the law or an Internet discussion.

 

[Yenrub]

You're taking this down a very strange path now. Last offseason Joey Porter and his boys jumped Levi Jones in a casino. Gambling is obviously not forbidden to NFL players, I'm sure I've seen some involved in poker promotions as well.

NFLPA CBA with the NFL Page 176 of 210, item #15 Integrity of the Game:

15. INTEGRITY OF GAME. Player recognizes the detriment to the League and professional football that

would result from impairment of public confidence in the honest and orderly conduct of NFL games or the

integrity and good character of NFL players. Player therefore acknowledges his awareness that if he accepts a

bribe or agrees to throw or fix an NFL game; fails to promptly report a bribe offer or an attempt to throw or fix

an NFL game; bets on an NFL game; knowingly associates with gamblers or gambling activity; uses or

provides other players with stimulants or other drugs for the purpose of attempting to enhance on-field

performance; or is guilty of any other form of conduct reasonably judged by the League Commissioner to be

detrimental to the League or professional football, the Commissioner will have the right, but only after giving

Player the opportunity for a hearing at which he may be represented by counsel of his choice, to fine Player in a

reasonable amount; to suspend Player for a period certain or indefinitely; and/or to terminate this contract.

Guess I'm not taking this down a strange path, huh?

How does the rule affect the Rooney family and their connection to racetracks?

 

[geoff8695]

I agree for the majority but if you're playing fantasy sprots for $$$ you want to have an idea about the guys characteristics. I do agree that it's impossible to really know any of these guys no matter how positive they seem. Though Mike Vick has had problems for awhile I still would root for the guy in regards to helping my team win. I may not agree with the person he is but like I said before.. thinking we know any of these guys is ridiculous. They get paid to do charity/appearances and so on so who knows. Very few go above and beyond with genuine care IMO which is fine but I'm def. not going to think anything other than good deed.

And no matter what you or I feel these Pro's are role models to a certain extent. As long as they're not a childs top role model (parents, teachers, coaches) I have no problem with a kid wanting to aspire athletically/scholastically(certain college) to whoever. But it's def. a fine line.

I think the topic of what Vick did is ultra sensitive and by the posts most will hate/root for guy but IMO he has served his due and should be reinstated without suspension. He has done what was asked of him from the judicial system and if he complies with Goodell then Im fine with him coming back right away.

these guys are role models to kids. no one is perfect. but a turd is a turd.these guys are in a unique position to influence kids in a positive way.

many do. many choose to be involved in dog fighting rings. i'm pretty sure if you took a cross section of the guys in the NFL you'd find a fair amount of good guys.

Agree that athletes "are in a unique position to influence kids in a positive way", and that they "are role models to a certain extent." That's just an inescapable byproduct of fame, fortune, televised sports, etc. However, most of the people posting in this thread are adults, and the ones saying they would stop rooting for their favorite team haven't been saying, "but what about the children?!?" So if those who are most offended here are primarily concerned about the indirect effects "scumbag" athletes have on children, then I'm very curious to hear if those same people are equally outraged with other entertainers, such as pop artists and rappers, who get in similar trouble with the law and then glorify and defend destructive lifestyles very openly in their lyrics in a much more direct influence on children. Although I could be wrong, it doesn't sound like influencing children is the main concern in pro sports, although it would be a great argument against other entertainers whose art form itself delivers the negative messages. I don't think Mike Vick running with or throwing the pigskin around, has quite the same influence, and for the record he has confessed his sins publicly (although his sincerity is certainly debatable).

Adults fans on the other hand, should be able to recognize that their favorite team/sport/athletes are involved in the big business of sports entertainment, and leave the role model stuff behind. Adults can and should separate their emotions about individuals from their enjoyment of the sport they love. The majority of these athletes aren't 'boy scouts', and while I can understand kids looking up to them, there are still far too many adults elevating athletes to hero status and kissing their arses. That just seems too childish to me, and while there are some players I respect more than others, I also realize that in rooting for my favorite team, there are bound to be some unsavory individuals who wear the uniform I cheer on. It won't stop me from following my favorite teams though.

Again I think we need to remember that pro sports is just another form of entertainment, like music or the movies. I can appreciate a great performance, without having to endorse the lifestyle or beliefs of the performer, and without worshipping him/her. I left that stuff behind in my childhood...

 

[r3t2]

How many of the animals he willingly tortured got a second chance? he had his chance and blew it now its time for him to move on and be an example for others that decide to ruin their lives by stupid decisions.

Exactly. And I hate when people say "he paid his debt to society". Really? You mean when a person goes to prison, that is their debt and not their punishment? Vick got punished by the LAW. His debt to society would be to open an animal shelter or something. The NFL should at LEAST suspend him for a full season. Once he TRUELY pays his debt to society (by doing something FOR society, and not just being punished in jail), then he should POSSIBLY be considered for reinstatment. To answer the question in the poll, I would absolutely HATE the Bills for signing him. Id root for them, but Id also root for him to get hurt every single play.

couldn't have said it better myself.and i too would root for him to blow out a knee on every single play. willfully torturing dogs, and seemingly not even being affected by it, is not on the same moral compass as accidentally killing someone while driving drunk, even though a human life is more important than a dog's (to most people anyway). if you "get off" hurting things, you're defective...period. the steelers have had some jerks play for them in the past and i have had a hard time getting excited about them even though they helped the team win. kinda felt a little dirty about it. james harrison isnt the greatest guy in the world; i believe he hit his girlfriend, though i dont know the details. i cant commit 100% as a fan if you hit women. unacceptable.

 

[moderated]

i too would root for him to blow out a knee on every single play.

stay classy.

 

[dirtywaters20]

2a. Why is my opinion not "useful" if I'm in the "never" category? Am I not useful b/c you can't use me?

It's not useful because it doesn't lead to a practical "way forward" for Vick or others like him. Forgiveness is a feeling, so you can feel however you like. Shock, outrage, anger, disgust are perfectly appropriate feelings to have about Vick but they don't inform what society or football are going to do with the guy.. short of executing him or imprisoning him for life. There are people who absolutely feel he should be dealt with in a manner consistent with how he treated those dogs. I get the emotion behind that but it isn't going to help Goodell, the law or an Internet discussion.

Since when is playing in the NFL a right? I fail how to see how paying his "debt to society" has to move in lockstep with his right to play in the NFL. He gets his freedom back; that's his repayment for paying off his debt to society. F the guy; I don't care how many token bs gestures he does going forward. I don't want to see him in the NFL again; period. I ask myself the question "Would Mike Vick be agreeing to work with the SPCA absent the possibility of a return to the NFL & the rewards associated with it? I think not. I can't prove that; but that's my opinion & his prolonged track record in engaging in such despicable activity warrants me having it. His subsequent denials & general dishonesty following him being implicated gives me further grounds for viewing any acts of contrition going forward with the highest level of skepticism. No way would I continue rooting for the Eagles if they signed this piece of dump. As to what he's supposed to do going forward? His got his freedom, and his health and the same opportunities of general employment as the rest of the population.

 

[GregR_2]

...

It already has been more. Vick was suspended indefinitely when charges were laid, he's been suspended for coming up on 2 years at this point. The only ones treated more harshly than this (relative to their convictions) have been Chris Henry, Pacman Jones and Odell Thurman.

You may be technically correct in saying he's been under suspension coming up on 2 years now. But I don't think most reasonable people would consider that full length of time to be a true punishment by the NFL. It's not much of a punishment to be suspended from a game that Vick wasn't going to be able to make it to anyway because he was in prison.

 

[Mark Wimer]

You're taking this down a very strange path now. Last offseason Joey Porter and his boys jumped Levi Jones in a casino. Gambling is obviously not forbidden to NFL players, I'm sure I've seen some involved in poker promotions as well.

NFLPA CBA with the NFL Page 176 of 210, item #15 Integrity of the Game:

15. INTEGRITY OF GAME. Player recognizes the detriment to the League and professional football that

would result from impairment of public confidence in the honest and orderly conduct of NFL games or the

integrity and good character of NFL players. Player therefore acknowledges his awareness that if he accepts a

bribe or agrees to throw or fix an NFL game; fails to promptly report a bribe offer or an attempt to throw or fix

an NFL game; bets on an NFL game; knowingly associates with gamblers or gambling activity; uses or

provides other players with stimulants or other drugs for the purpose of attempting to enhance on-field

performance; or is guilty of any other form of conduct reasonably judged by the League Commissioner to be

detrimental to the League or professional football, the Commissioner will have the right, but only after giving

Player the opportunity for a hearing at which he may be represented by counsel of his choice, to fine Player in a

reasonable amount; to suspend Player for a period certain or indefinitely; and/or to terminate this contract.

Guess I'm not taking this down a strange path, huh?

How does the rule affect the Rooney family and their connection to racetracks?

This rule applies to players under contract to NFL teams. It's the NFLPA's collective bargaining agreement with the league. The Rooney family are not players in the NFL. So it doesn't apply.

However, the Rooney family's connection to racetracks has been a sore point with some of the other owners, but it doesn't get reported too much.

 

[Mark Wimer]

Mods -- could we get a stickied Vick up top to merge all these threads into?

No, unfortunately the merging sorts the posts by date and time and there are so many Vick threads it would become quickly incomprehensible. Oh, and Vick should be barred from the NFL for life, but not for the dogfighting. The larger (and largely ignored issue) is that he consorted with known illegal gamblers and illegally gambled across state lines. This is EXPRESSLY forbidden by the NFL and Vick lied to the commissioner's face about his involvement with illegal gambling rings. It is but a short jump given his manifest inconsistency from week to week to conclude that he was throwing games for the benefit of illegal gamblers to whom he owed money.

And even if he never did throw a game, the appearance of impropriety is undeniable and his guilt or innocence in the matter can NEVER be determined.

The integrity of the league in this matter is more important than "giving Mike Vick another chance after he paid his debt to society".

Follow the MONEY................Vick is what he is........ A scumbag but, as long as we (I have PSL's to the Rams games) spend our MONEY to support these teams.......... win at any cost........... is the name of the game. If and a big IF, he is reinstated, some team will believe he can help them win. I agree that the BIGGER picture here is his ties to the gambling community plus his deep character defects. Would add one additional point; Lots of fans in the DC/Va; Atlanta area ? --- how many of these 'fans' BUY tickets to the games ?

There's an expotentially larger lot of money on the line to be lost for the league (and for Vegas/Atlantic City) if people become convinced that players are fixing games for gamblers. It would destroy public confidence in the contests, and the league would lose massive amounts of popularity. Remember all the outrage over the Patriots' alleged cheating with video of defensive call signs? That is just the tip of the iceberg of the outrage that would boil to the surface if a re-instated Vick got caught fixing a game for one of his gambling buddies. He's obviously not discreet in his associations, and journalists are going to be watching his every move IF he gets reinstated - sooner or later he'd get caught, just like John Edwards did.

My .02.

 

[moderated]

Mods -- could we get a stickied Vick up top to merge all these threads into?

No, unfortunately the merging sorts the posts by date and time and there are so many Vick threads it would become quickly incomprehensible. Oh, and Vick should be barred from the NFL for life, but not for the dogfighting. The larger (and largely ignored issue) is that he consorted with known illegal gamblers and illegally gambled across state lines. This is EXPRESSLY forbidden by the NFL and Vick lied to the commissioner's face about his involvement with illegal gambling rings. It is but a short jump given his manifest inconsistency from week to week to conclude that he was throwing games for the benefit of illegal gamblers to whom he owed money.

And even if he never did throw a game, the appearance of impropriety is undeniable and his guilt or innocence in the matter can NEVER be determined.

The integrity of the league in this matter is more important than "giving Mike Vick another chance after he paid his debt to society".

Follow the MONEY................Vick is what he is........ A scumbag but, as long as we (I have PSL's to the Rams games) spend our MONEY to support these teams.......... win at any cost........... is the name of the game. If and a big IF, he is reinstated, some team will believe he can help them win. I agree that the BIGGER picture here is his ties to the gambling community plus his deep character defects. Would add one additional point; Lots of fans in the DC/Va; Atlanta area ? --- how many of these 'fans' BUY tickets to the games ?

There's an expotentially larger lot of money on the line to be lost for the league (and for Vegas/Atlantic City) if people become convinced that players are fixing games for gamblers. It would destroy public confidence in the contests, and the league would lose massive amounts of popularity. Remember all the outrage over the Patriots' alleged cheating with video of defensive call signs? That is just the tip of the iceberg of the outrage that would boil to the surface if a re-instated Vick got caught fixing a game for one of his gambling buddies. He's obviously not discreet in his associations, and journalists are going to be watching his every move IF he gets reinstated - sooner or later he'd get caught, just like John Edwards did.

My .02.

Your reaching, there is ZERO evidence that Vick bet on NFL games.

 

[The Future Champs]

2a. Why is my opinion not "useful" if I'm in the "never" category? Am I not useful b/c you can't use me?

It's not useful because it doesn't lead to a practical "way forward" for Vick or others like him. Forgiveness is a feeling, so you can feel however you like. Shock, outrage, anger, disgust are perfectly appropriate feelings to have about Vick but they don't inform what society or football are going to do with the guy.. short of executing him or imprisoning him for life. There are people who absolutely feel he should be dealt with in a manner consistent with how he treated those dogs. I get the emotion behind that but it isn't going to help Goodell, the law or an Internet discussion.

I don't think we need to forgive in order to move forward. It is an important component for moving forward emotionally, but I certainly don't feel any need for progress there. And there is a practical way forward for vick which doesn't require my forgiveness: he can be a law abiding citizen.

 

[Multiple Scores]

Mike Vick is entitled to what every other felon is: Government assistance in the form of welfare, food stamps and employment assistance. He is not entitled to play in the NFL, they can hire him if they want to hire him. He is required to fill out on his applications that he is a felon and has committed felonies in the last 7 years.

Does anyone here feel bad for the ex-bank robber, car thief, child molestor, rapist or murderer who can't find a job which pays him over 7 digits a year? I doubt it. Should he be able to wash dishes in a bakery for minimum wage? I don't know the answer, it's up to who owns the bakery to hire him. The point here is Mike Vick isn't entitled to play in the NFL, if an owner wants to bring in a scumbag like him then they will and suffer the consequences of making that move, the fan base is likely to go down and not up, sounds like a bad business move to me. This guy doesn't have winner all over him like a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning and isn't worth the risk.

 

[Mark Wimer]

Mods -- could we get a stickied Vick up top to merge all these threads into?

No, unfortunately the merging sorts the posts by date and time and there are so many Vick threads it would become quickly incomprehensible. Oh, and Vick should be barred from the NFL for life, but not for the dogfighting. The larger (and largely ignored issue) is that he consorted with known illegal gamblers and illegally gambled across state lines. This is EXPRESSLY forbidden by the NFL and Vick lied to the commissioner's face about his involvement with illegal gambling rings. It is but a short jump given his manifest inconsistency from week to week to conclude that he was throwing games for the benefit of illegal gamblers to whom he owed money.

And even if he never did throw a game, the appearance of impropriety is undeniable and his guilt or innocence in the matter can NEVER be determined.

The integrity of the league in this matter is more important than "giving Mike Vick another chance after he paid his debt to society".

Follow the MONEY................Vick is what he is........ A scumbag but, as long as we (I have PSL's to the Rams games) spend our MONEY to support these teams.......... win at any cost........... is the name of the game. If and a big IF, he is reinstated, some team will believe he can help them win. I agree that the BIGGER picture here is his ties to the gambling community plus his deep character defects. Would add one additional point; Lots of fans in the DC/Va; Atlanta area ? --- how many of these 'fans' BUY tickets to the games ?

There's an expotentially larger lot of money on the line to be lost for the league (and for Vegas/Atlantic City) if people become convinced that players are fixing games for gamblers. It would destroy public confidence in the contests, and the league would lose massive amounts of popularity. Remember all the outrage over the Patriots' alleged cheating with video of defensive call signs? That is just the tip of the iceberg of the outrage that would boil to the surface if a re-instated Vick got caught fixing a game for one of his gambling buddies. He's obviously not discreet in his associations, and journalists are going to be watching his every move IF he gets reinstated - sooner or later he'd get caught, just like John Edwards did.

My .02.

Your reaching, there is ZERO evidence that Vick bet on NFL games.

I already stated that the league would never know if he did one way or another - look up the post above. That's not the point.The point is the league forbids associating with known gamblers (most especially illegal bookmakers like those at dogfights) because it automatically raises the suspicion that the player in question MAY have thrown a game to pay off his gambling debts. Go read about Art Schlichter at Wikipedia if you have any doubts that this is exactly what illegal bookmakers will try and accomplish if they have an NFL player implicated in illegal gambling.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

How does the rule affect the Rooney family and their connection to racetracks?

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08191/895738-194.stmThe Rooney family is in violation of at least two NFL rules:

• The league stipulates one person must own 30 percent of the team's stock.

The Rooney family owns about 80 percent of the team but it is evenly divided among the brothers.

• The league does not permit ownership to be involved in gambling operations, whether government sanctioned or not.

The Rooney family has controlling interest in Yonkers Raceway in New York state and the Palm Beach Kennel Club in Florida. Both operations have gambling, poker and/or slot machines, on their premises.

Art Rooney left his oldest son in charge of the Steelers and gave him the title in the mid-1970s. His second oldest, Art Jr. worked for the Steelers until the mid-1980s as the team's scouting director. He was responsible for building the great Super Bowl teams of the 1970s. He was fired by Dan in 1985. Tim, the middle brother, runs the Yonkers operations. The youngest brothers, twins John and Pat, are involved with the Florida operation. Pat is the CEO. John also is involved in family real estate.

The problem is that each share is worth so much there is almost no way Dan Rooney can buy out his brothers. The team is valued at between $800 million and $1 billion. The brothers each own 16 percent, with the other 20 percent owned by the McGinley family, to whom the Rooneys are related through marriage. Sixteen percent of $800 million is about $130 million. To pay off all four brothers would require $520 million.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8...mp;confirm=true

For the past two years the Rooney family has had discussions about a restructuring of the family’s ownership of the Steelers in order to ensure compliance with NFL ownership policies and the continuation of Rooney family ownership and operation of the team.

Pittsburgh Steelers Chairman Dan Rooney, the oldest son of late team founder Art Rooney, wants to stay in the football business while some of his four brothers plan to get out of the NFL and focus their business efforts on their racetracks and other interests. Dan Rooney, and his son, Steelers President Art Rooney II, are arranging a financing plan to buy Dan’s brothers' shares in the team in order to continue substantial ownership of the franchise by the Rooneys.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3519515

Several Rooney brothers have decided to sell partly because they own shares of racetracks that now offer casino gaming not permitted by the NFL. Brothers Tim and Pat Rooney, who are involved in the family's racing business, have resigned from the Steelers board of directors and brother Art Rooney Jr., a former Steelers scouting director, has sold off most of his race track shares. The other brother, John, is believed to want to sell his shares.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11108155/rss

PITTSBURGH -- Pittsburgh Steelers chairman Dan Rooney's four brothers have agreed to sell a controlling stake of the team to him and his son, the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reported.

Patrick and Art Rooney Jr. confirmed the deal in a story posted on the paper's website Friday night. They and their other two brothers -- Timothy and John -- could get a total of $750 million after debt is taken out, according to the report.

Art Rooney Jr. said the brothers hope to get the deal wrapped up before a board meeting in December. Both sides want to get a deal done by then because they are worried about possible higher taxes once the Obama administration is in office.

I found this site --- it's got a ton of stuff on it if you need to research anything.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Hey, wait......if the Rooney family was in violation of two rules last year, wouldn't that mean their superbowl win was tainted?

omg asterisk

 

[Yenrub]

You're taking this down a very strange path now. Last offseason Joey Porter and his boys jumped Levi Jones in a casino. Gambling is obviously not forbidden to NFL players, I'm sure I've seen some involved in poker promotions as well.

NFLPA CBA with the NFL Page 176 of 210, item #15 Integrity of the Game:

15. INTEGRITY OF GAME. Player recognizes the detriment to the League and professional football that

would result from impairment of public confidence in the honest and orderly conduct of NFL games or the

integrity and good character of NFL players. Player therefore acknowledges his awareness that if he accepts a

bribe or agrees to throw or fix an NFL game; fails to promptly report a bribe offer or an attempt to throw or fix

an NFL game; bets on an NFL game; knowingly associates with gamblers or gambling activity; uses or

provides other players with stimulants or other drugs for the purpose of attempting to enhance on-field

performance; or is guilty of any other form of conduct reasonably judged by the League Commissioner to be

detrimental to the League or professional football, the Commissioner will have the right, but only after giving

Player the opportunity for a hearing at which he may be represented by counsel of his choice, to fine Player in a

reasonable amount; to suspend Player for a period certain or indefinitely; and/or to terminate this contract.

Guess I'm not taking this down a strange path, huh?

How does the rule affect the Rooney family and their connection to racetracks?

This rule applies to players under contract to NFL teams. It's the NFLPA's collective bargaining agreement with the league. The Rooney family are not players in the NFL. So it doesn't apply.

However, the Rooney family's connection to racetracks has been a sore point with some of the other owners, but it doesn't get reported too much.

Probably shouldn’t mention it in this thread but I am curious as to how this rule would apply if at all if few of the Steeler players go out to eat or something with the Rooney boys

 

[Yenrub]

Hey Kool-Aid!! (sorry couldn’t resist)

Thanks for the links

 

[Truman]

You're taking this down a very strange path now. Last offseason Joey Porter and his boys jumped Levi Jones in a casino. Gambling is obviously not forbidden to NFL players, I'm sure I've seen some involved in poker promotions as well.

NFLPA CBA with the NFL Page 176 of 210, item #15 Integrity of the Game:

15. INTEGRITY OF GAME. Player recognizes the detriment to the League and professional football that

would result from impairment of public confidence in the honest and orderly conduct of NFL games or the

integrity and good character of NFL players. Player therefore acknowledges his awareness that if he accepts a

bribe or agrees to throw or fix an NFL game; fails to promptly report a bribe offer or an attempt to throw or fix

an NFL game; bets on an NFL game; knowingly associates with gamblers or gambling activity; uses or

provides other players with stimulants or other drugs for the purpose of attempting to enhance on-field

performance; or is guilty of any other form of conduct reasonably judged by the League Commissioner to be

detrimental to the League or professional football, the Commissioner will have the right, but only after giving

Player the opportunity for a hearing at which he may be represented by counsel of his choice, to fine Player in a

reasonable amount; to suspend Player for a period certain or indefinitely; and/or to terminate this contract.

Guess I'm not taking this down a strange path, huh?

Guess not.Looks like Levi Jones and Jerry Porter should count themselves lucky to still be in the league. Not to mention Edgerrin James, who admitted to betting on football on national TV while on the Hurricanes sideline.

 

[Truman]

...

It already has been more. Vick was suspended indefinitely when charges were laid, he's been suspended for coming up on 2 years at this point. The only ones treated more harshly than this (relative to their convictions) have been Chris Henry, Pacman Jones and Odell Thurman.

You may be technically correct in saying he's been under suspension coming up on 2 years now. But I don't think most reasonable people would consider that full length of time to be a true punishment by the NFL. It's not much of a punishment to be suspended from a game that Vick wasn't going to be able to make it to anyway because he was in prison.

Maybe they should have waited until guilt had been established then. The same standard has definitely not been applied to Donte Stallworth.

 

[WisWolvrns]

If Vick is such a scumbag as people have posted for killing dogs, it is amazing how people don't see how much much more evil an abortion doctor is who kills innocent babies. Especially late term ones.

No wonders society is so screwed up.

Peace

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

How many of the animals he willingly tortured got a second chance? he had his chance and blew it now its time for him to move on and be an example for others that decide to ruin their lives by stupid decisions.

Exactly. And I hate when people say "he paid his debt to society". Really? You mean when a person goes to prison, that is their debt and not their punishment? Vick got punished by the LAW. His debt to society would be to open an animal shelter or something. The NFL should at LEAST suspend him for a full season. Once he TRUELY pays his debt to society (by doing something FOR society, and not just being punished in jail), then he should POSSIBLY be considered for reinstatment. To answer the question in the poll, I would absolutely HATE the Bills for signing him. Id root for them, but Id also root for him to get hurt every single play.

couldn't have said it better myself.and i too would root for him to blow out a knee on every single play. willfully torturing dogs, and seemingly not even being affected by it, is not on the same moral compass as accidentally killing someone while driving drunk, even though a human life is more important than a dog's (to most people anyway). if you "get off" hurting things, you're defective...period.

the steelers have had some jerks play for them in the past and i have had a hard time getting excited about them even though they helped the team win. kinda felt a little dirty about it. james harrison isnt the greatest guy in the world; i believe he hit his girlfriend, though i dont know the details.

i cant commit 100% as a fan if you hit women. unacceptable.

Tell that to the little girl who no longer has a mother.And was it really an accident? Did he accidentally get in the vehicle and accidentally turn the key to start the ignition and accidentally drive down the road impaired?

 

[Lehigh98]

My team is the Eagles...with about a 0.000000001% chance of signing someone like Vick. I couldn't care less.