If he cant find a way to get the ball to Randy Moss with one of the best RB's in the backfield, he wont get it done anywhere. I cheered like crazy for this guy while he was abusing defenses at UT but he just isnt playing like a capable NFL QB. He's had enough chances to separate himself as a viable option at the position but continues to revert to the same mistakes that plague his game.
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If Vince Young is Done in TEN (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bob Magaw
- Start date
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
a few questions...
if any TEN homers were there...
did VY get booed in unison by the crowd, or isolated?
what are the chances fisher goes and not VY... initially i would have thought 1% fisher, 99% VY...
BUT, bud adams is a notorious VY fan, and did reportedly order fisher to play VY when they started 0-6 last year... in retrospect, it was clearly the right move... given how long fisher waited (in fairness to him, he quit on the team previously), it is safe to say he didn't have a lot of trust in him...
there were also the reports he never really wanted him in the first place, & was bascially jammed down the coaching staff's throats...
this is a little reminiscent to me of when magic johnson got his coach fired... with the massive difference (so much so, that i hope this isn't interpreted as an exact analogy)... VY is nowhere near as accomplished, and doesn't seem to have the clout or juice to pull this kind of a stunt & get away with it...
of course, he probably realizes some of this and maybe wants to force the titans hands in getting rid of him or fisher... but he is getting a deserved bad rep as a problem, and could be severely curtailing his future options?
if any TEN homers were there...
did VY get booed in unison by the crowd, or isolated?
what are the chances fisher goes and not VY... initially i would have thought 1% fisher, 99% VY...
BUT, bud adams is a notorious VY fan, and did reportedly order fisher to play VY when they started 0-6 last year... in retrospect, it was clearly the right move... given how long fisher waited (in fairness to him, he quit on the team previously), it is safe to say he didn't have a lot of trust in him...
there were also the reports he never really wanted him in the first place, & was bascially jammed down the coaching staff's throats...
this is a little reminiscent to me of when magic johnson got his coach fired... with the massive difference (so much so, that i hope this isn't interpreted as an exact analogy)... VY is nowhere near as accomplished, and doesn't seem to have the clout or juice to pull this kind of a stunt & get away with it...
of course, he probably realizes some of this and maybe wants to force the titans hands in getting rid of him or fisher... but he is getting a deserved bad rep as a problem, and could be severely curtailing his future options?
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bmetz
Footballguy
there were a lot of people booing, but i'm guessing that the target of the booing was mixed between the play calling and VY. Vince walking off the field egging on the booing (see this pic: http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/1121/nfl_a...mg_300x200.jpg) probably brought a few more boos his way.
Read Bud Adams' comments on all of this
I don't think Fisher gets fired, or quits midseason. But I could see him leaving after the season. I seem to recall Adam Schefter saying that Fisher has some sort of option on his contract (he brought this up, saying that Dallas could be a potential landing spot for Fisher a few weeks ago).
If you read the article I linked above, you'll see that Bud is pretty clearly in VY's corner on this. I'd imagine that wouldn't sit too well with Fisher.
Read Bud Adams' comments on all of this
I don't think Fisher gets fired, or quits midseason. But I could see him leaving after the season. I seem to recall Adam Schefter saying that Fisher has some sort of option on his contract (he brought this up, saying that Dallas could be a potential landing spot for Fisher a few weeks ago).
If you read the article I linked above, you'll see that Bud is pretty clearly in VY's corner on this. I'd imagine that wouldn't sit too well with Fisher.
Weapon of Mass Instruction
Watch my feet!
I don't know where he lands...but he'll have several offers to choose from.
Listen, he's a child. A dumb and unstable child. But...if you let him just be VY...he can be pretty dang good.
Listen, he's a child. A dumb and unstable child. But...if you let him just be VY...he can be pretty dang good.
Binky The Doormat
Footballguy
Be careful of what you ask for. This sounds like peanut butter in shag carpet bad.I hate to say it, but I can actually see him traded to Houston for Leinart. Fisher is a USC guy, and probably thinks Leinart could work in Tennesee.
whole-show
Footballguy
Just reported on monday night football that Bud Adams said VY and Fisher need to work things out because both will be back next year
skillz
Footballguy
That's what Tenn let him be during last season. They let him use his legs more, run around, used misdirections with CJ and the offense was far more creative than this year. VY was a dual threat and that made him and the others around him better. Why the team has decided to deviate from that and go back to simply dropping back or having CJ go run directly in the backs of his linemen is beyond me. He's better off going somewhere else that may try to use him more creatively/effectively.
For his own sake, he needs a fresh start elsewhere even if Fisher leaves. And despite the common perception that he needs to "study more/work harder", he's shown definite improvement this year, regardless which metric you use. QB Rating around 100, DVOA ranked 11th (DYAR 22nd because Fish hates to see VY pass apparently).
He'll get a second chance somewhere, there are far too many mediocre QB's out there for him not to, and it shouldn't really shock anyone paying attention if he manages some success.
He'll get a second chance somewhere, there are far too many mediocre QB's out there for him not to, and it shouldn't really shock anyone paying attention if he manages some success.
Adams has been around a long long time. This could mean anything. It will hurt Young's trade value if we say he's gone.I have to support my coach til the season is over.It could be genuine. He's from Texas, he could love Vince like so many there do.Really could be anything. Adams is like a president or politician. He has a very interesting way of controlling what the public knows about him or sees from him and also in keeping things private. I don't believe he cares what the public thinks but has to act concerned what they think. Its...real hard to explain. He is one crafty crafty man.Good luck making sense of it.
gregjcross
Footballguy
it's time for Jeff Fisher to move up and out of Tennessee because he and owner are not synchronized on the direction of the franchise. That's life. VY looks pretty good but to me, he is an overgrown baby. Maybe they should bring in Mac Brown to make him happy.
For some reason Dallas was the first team to pop into my head, but I think that's admitting that VY will probably not be a starter next year wherever he plays. For one thing, the injury history is adding up, and he has proved he either cannot or does not play through/with pain. I have sympathy for him in some regard, as all these injuries have to be frustrating for someone who is not used to riding the pine. Attitude? Shouldn't be a problem for Dallas. Checkered past? Dallas don't care. Former Longhorn? Texas pride baby!
Interesting take...I'll admit that I wanted Leinart in that draft, thought he was the most NFL ready. Fish and coaches wanted Cutler, they got VY. I'm still a fan of VY (can't forget that comeback win against the Giants a few years ago). Heart is not included in the tests at the Combine.
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Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
I'll welcome in SF.
Gopher State
Footballguy
:X Nothing but a backup going forward
VY needs to go to a team that needs a "decent" QB AND that has a coach that will have VY's back at all times unlike Fischer who has undermined VY every chance he gets.
Ice Cream Man
Footballguy
Explain.There are a few instances I can think of, but they either revolved around Vince a) either sucking so incredibly badly that bringing in a backup made sense (e.g. playing Pittsburgh); b) left the team because of suicide issues; c) left the team because he was incapable of playing due to injury. I don't recall Fisher ever saying Vince didn't play well when he in fact did, or beat him up when he played badly. Fisher is pretty diplomatic about things - he knows its a TEAM sport.
While it is fair to say Fisher does not have as much faith in VY as some would like, it is also true that VY has done little to earn it. In fact, VY has given his opponents all the ammunition in the world to lose faith in him. Kerry isn't a great QB, but through the past few years, the worst that can be said about Kerry is that he was under center when they started 0-6.
A QB needs to demonstrate a number of characteristics (maturity, composure, toughness, decisiveness) to lead a team.. this is particularly true if the team is led by a coach like Fisher.
montanagold
Footballguy
No... I think the Quincy Carter experiment is still in the back of his mind. I think Jerry goes after a QB in the draft... and tandems him with a good veteran. That veteran could be Kitna or Romo. If they couldn't get a good draft pick for Romo then I think he gets another season while they figure out the position. However, I've been saying for a year that Romo would look like a fit in Minnesota. All speculation, tho....
coolnerd
Footballguy
You know that Vince has a faction in Houston that thinks he is God. He really does not belong in Houston (as though he is flawed there are no more than 12 or QBs in the NFL beter than Schaub at the moment). , but from our end getting ready the fire everybody go get Coach _____ and Vince Young....just saying.
coolnerd
Footballguy
On the thead in general...my speculation is that until he is in some way (not dog fighting exactly) MIke Vicked type Humbled, you will see what we have seen so far. Young is an athletic talent and shows moxie (on the field) with the ability to make big plays in key situations. His problem is doing the work to be consistent and having the general maturity to gain the trust of both his coaches and teammates. Until (and if) he gets it, the team or coach won't matter.
Salty Dogz
Footballguy
Melio, I could not disagree more. VY has not worked at improving the necessary skills to be a pro QB, and appears to have reached the Peter Principle of attaining his level of imcompetence. He has HIT his glass ceiling.I don't see VY as one of the top 40 QBs in the league, if that. The last thing he needed was to throw his immaturity into this mix. Any great coach (Vince, Walsh, etc.) would have also sent him packing after this 2nd tirade on the field, and the locker room spat doesn't help (if reports are accurate). Are you kidding me, this is "professional" sports. Coach Fisher is not the problem, he's managing an impossible situation. I can't even see Oakland taking a flyer on VY at this point. I beleive that MIN, AZ, SF & CAR would be stupid to look his way. It's unfortunate he failed to develop his skills, but his playing days are probably over.
Fisher never blatantly kills VY in public (privately may be a different matter) he just implies VY's relative incompetence and undermines him at every opportunity. Whether that's by having a quick hook for him, refusing to start him, or grossly limiting his # of throws despite his noticeable improvements this year, Fisher makes it very difficult not to conclude that he has little to no faith in VY. Since people respect Fisher, they of course conclude this means Vince shouldn't be trusted. And of course, VY being hypersensitive to criticism cannot help but notice that the press and fans have largely accepted that notion as fact.
Ice Cream Man
Footballguy
This is incredibly flimsy evidence, even for a Shark Pool thread.-What game has VY been pulled from except the Pittsburgh game this year? I can't think of any over the past 4 years. And relative to Shanahan vis-a-vis McNabb, Fisher had all the reason in the world to do so. VY was lost out there. And of course, Kerry has been pulled in like circumstances (see 2008). Fisher is about winning and putting a competitive team on the field - he doesn't care how he does it. Sometimes that will be rub people the wrong way.
-Playcalling? Fisher is not the OC. In any case, VY is happy with the playcalling from the comments he's made in the past.
So... what this ALL comes down to is that, after VY having a terrible 2007 season and completely ditching the team in 2008, VY didn't get handed the job back on a platter after his backup and game manager led the same team to a 13-3 record?
The sense of entitlement in the VY camp is just shocking. All evidence [short of locker room discussions which we're not privy too] points to Fisher putting a good faith effort forward. But I can understand why Fisher wants nothing to do with it anymore. It's like an adult dealing to a spoiled child. I don't think this can be overstated.
This weekend was just the last straw.
Young has had moments of brilliance - I can think about 2 or 3 games in particular. He's improved in some areas this year - his accuracy has gotten better and his turnovers have gone down. He seems like a very nice guy, and is probably a good face for a team. When things go well, he's humble and a good leader (if that means anything). But VY's also regressed in many other areas, namely in leadership, maturity, and discernment - and this has shown when things don't go peachy. VY's also frustratingly inconsistent. His recent string of injuries haven't helped - had he stayed healthy all year, how knows what could have happened. Right now, VY is a net negative for the team.
In any case, I hope he does well with another team - he's got a lot of physical talent - but I'm thankful his time is (likely) over in TEN. TEN can do without his growing pains.
I already stated that Fisher has never blatantly killed VY, my point was that from the outside it's difficult not to conclude that he doesn't think much of VY's abilities. Since people have watched his moves and largely have reached that conclusion, I don't think that point is really up for debate.
When the alternatives have been Kerry Collins, Chris Simms, and Rusty Smith can you really blame people for thinking that VY deserves more of a chance?
VY has been an oversensitive baby, everyone knows this. But Fisher can't get a pass for completely mishandling what should have been one of his most important players.
When the alternatives have been Kerry Collins, Chris Simms, and Rusty Smith can you really blame people for thinking that VY deserves more of a chance?
VY has been an oversensitive baby, everyone knows this. But Fisher can't get a pass for completely mishandling what should have been one of his most important players.
I don't get the Quincy parallel. Vince is more popular in Texas than most Cowboys (remember we're talking 50 players or so). If Jones has trouble selling tickets (he doesn't seem to) it seems a guarantee that if he tells a coach to put Vince in, they'd suddenly sell some more tickets to the countless curious Texans that love Vince's college legend stories.If not, Jones has a capable backup. If I don't call him good or great and just capable, ya gotta see how this could work for the Boys don't ya?As for Romo leaving or being traded, I imagine they'd want to see how Vince does first.montanagold said:
dhockster
Footballguy
coolnerd said:
One story I heard about VY when the Texans were thinking about drafting him: They brought him in and put a thing on his head which distorted his vision. He was then asked to try and complete a pass. When he failed several times, he got frustrated, took the thing off, and left.Based on events this week, 5 years in the NFL have not improved his maturity level one bit. He still cannot handle any sort of adverity. As Coolnerd said, until he gets humbled by something, and realizes the world does not revolve around VY, he will continue to meltdown. As a coach or a GM, I would not want to bring on that headache.Similar threads
