"I'm A Cop, Just Cooperate [or else] (1 Viewer)

[Officer Pete Malloy]

I love the people who say "I know my rights!" When the fact is that the vast majority of them do not, In fAct, know their rights.

What about those of us that do?

Then you are smart enough to know that an officer saying, "hey, can you stop so I can talk to you" may not be the right ditch to die in.

That's not a violation of anyone's rights for a cop to do that.

That's my point.

Is it really?

 

[Limp Ditka]

I sense a blog update.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Privacy arguments just mask the real problem -- caging people for drugs. No one is going to say, "Man, that guy followed every traffic law to a T. It's BS that they pulled him over and found a murdered body in the trunk."

Defense lawyers do it all the time. Did you sleep through 8th grade history AND 12th grade government?

 

[Josie Maran]

I love the people who say "I know my rights!" When the fact is that the vast majority of them do not, In fAct, know their rights.

What about those of us that do?

Then you are smart enough to know that an officer saying, "hey, can you stop so I can talk to you" may not be the right ditch to die in.

That's not a violation of anyone's rights for a cop to do that.

That's my point.

Is it really?

Plot twist: Abe actually wrote the article.

 

[jplvr]

I'm probably not the best guy to ask if you're trying to stay out of jail, but I make cops work for it.

 

[TakiToki]

Privacy arguments just mask the real problem -- caging people for drugs. No one is going to say, "Man, that guy followed every traffic law to a T. It's BS that they pulled him over and found a murdered body in the trunk."

Defense lawyers do it all the time. Did you sleep through 8th grade history AND 12th grade government?

I mean as a common sentiment. The fact that the line of logic is used and supported in that type of situation is exactly my point.

 

[Abraham]

I love the people who say "I know my rights!" When the fact is that the vast majority of them do not, In fAct, know their rights.

What about those of us that do?

Then you are smart enough to know that an officer saying, "hey, can you stop so I can talk to you" may not be the right ditch to die in.

That's not a violation of anyone's rights for a cop to do that.

That's my point.

Your point is outside the scope of the discussion though

Point taken.

 

[Loan Sharks]

My best friend growing up has been a Detroit Cop for 24 years(one year to go) who has made thousands of stops. Many times he has said that he has never seen any kind of incident when people just follow instructions.

I got pulled over by a State Trooper in Kentucky in a rental car last year. It was around midnight and I opened the door..he pulled his gun and said hands on the wheel. I put both hands on top of the steering wheel and waited for him to walk up. It was not that hard to comply and I did not want to be a stat. In retrospect I should not have opened the door but I was totally sober and not concerned. The police do not know this though so it did not bother me. The guy just wants to go home to his family after work like all of us.

Are we to assume that those instructions always are lawful?

When you are at the mercy of two police officers with guns who cares? Any time I have been stopped for anything it is easier to comply.

So, where do you draw the line in your constitutional rights?

Two guys with guns and they are all out of the window or just some. If the latter, which.

Me? I draw the line and make constitutional arguments in court, not on the side of the highway with a armed individual who may not be a specialist in constitutional law.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

My best friend growing up has been a Detroit Cop for 24 years(one year to go) who has made thousands of stops. Many times he has said that he has never seen any kind of incident when people just follow instructions.

I got pulled over by a State Trooper in Kentucky in a rental car last year. It was around midnight and I opened the door..he pulled his gun and said hands on the wheel. I put both hands on top of the steering wheel and waited for him to walk up. It was not that hard to comply and I did not want to be a stat. In retrospect I should not have opened the door but I was totally sober and not concerned. The police do not know this though so it did not bother me. The guy just wants to go home to his family after work like all of us.

Are we to assume that those instructions always are lawful?

When you are at the mercy of two police officers with guns who cares? Any time I have been stopped for anything it is easier to comply.

So, where do you draw the line in your constitutional rights?

Two guys with guns and they are all out of the window or just some. If the latter, which.

Me? I draw the line and make constitutional arguments in court, not on the side of the highway with a armed individual who may not be a specialist in constitutional law.

thats the thing though unless you have it on film, its your word vs his and the cop usually wins that no, especially if you are arrested

 

[Ilov80s]

Cop punches special needs woman in the face.

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhvvqUN45rNQy4vm30

Cop punching a girl in the side a few times

https://vine.co/v/M310Ebda3EY

Teenage girl stopped for jaywalking gets punched in the face

http://youtu.be/J0WTcTzN96s

 

[Ilov80s]

Oh and this woman just wouldn't listen to the officer, so she had to get mounted and punched a whole bunch of times.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fYeC-D1_Vv4

 

[Al O'Pecia]

Oh and this woman just wouldn't listen to the officer, so she had to get mounted

Please leave my role playing out of this.

 

[Fat Nick]

"Rosa Parks stood up for her rights."

"Yeah but she went to jail. Why go through that pain in the ### just to prove a point?"

@ even trying to equate Rosa Parks standing up for her rights to some schmuck refusing a search of his car at a sobriety check-point or something. You aren't going down in history as some great savior for that.

You keep talking about a car. I very clearly said "finger in your ###."

OK...I get it. At some point above, somebody (maybe not you) was discussing this as a routine traffic stop...regardless..

@ even trying to equate Rosa Parks standing up for her rights to some schmuck refusing a finger in his #### at a sobriety check-point or something. You aren't going down in history as some great savior for that either.

I can see it now...all THESE people marching on the Capitol with signs, "Save our bums!" "End police fingering!"

I wasn't trying to equate anything. It's called an analogy.

But could you do me a favor and list which of our civil rights are worth standing up for and which ones we should just let go?

Analogy...equate...split hairs much? The comparison was made.

I think the point we differ on is the scenario under which standing up for civil rights is worth the potential ramifications. It seems you'll stand up for rights at all costs, where as I take a stance that looks at the pro's and con's. In 99% of the cases out there involving a police officer, -assuming you are innocent-, it is far better to just go along with it than to raise some big stink in the name of civil rights.

You're not going to convince me, I'm not going to convince you. If we ever get pulled over together and both get d-bag cops, I'll wave as I'm driving away while you're sitting waiting for the cop to come back and give you a hard time some more. Maybe you'll get famous for it and have Outkast write a song about you...maybe you won't. That's a chance I'm willing to take.

 

[Fat Nick]

A cop trying to shove his fist up your ### is a friendly gesture and shouldn't be perceived as aggression. You haven't experienced pleasure until John Q Law sticks his hand (hopefully with a leather glove) up your ###. Don't knock it until you try it.

Is what I'm typing coming out in a different language to everyone else? It's just a finger. Why does everyone else have to change what we're talking about?

Maybe you need to provide a visual example?

 

[NCCommish]

Problem is there is a difference between "cooperating" and not consenting to a violation of your civil rights. If an officer asks to search my car and I say "No. You have no probable cause." am I being difficult or non co-operative cause I won't do exactly what I was told? Assume I have nothing to hide in the car, but I also know my rights and I won't have them trampled upon by over zealous law enforcement.

From the article:

But if you believe (or know) that the cop stopping you is violating your rights or is acting like a bully, I guarantee that the situation will not become easier if you show your anger and resentment. Worse, initiating a physical confrontation is a sure recipe for getting hurt. Police are legally permitted to use deadly force when they assess a serious threat to their or someone else's life. Later, you can ask for a supervisor, lodge a complaint or contact civil rights organizations if you believe your rights were violated. Feel free to sue the police! Just don't challenge a cop during a stop.

Sure sounds like he's saying you best agree to have your rights trampled, or we might end up ####ing you up.

Sure sounds like you have one hell of a persecution complex. Don't break the law and you won't have to worry about an unnecessary search. I'd rather have cops search unnecessarily and find a threat than not be able to do so and miss one.

Nice. It didn't take long for someone to throw out the ol' "If I'm not doing anything wrong, I have nothing to worry about" line.

That line comes out bc it is true in about 999,999 out of 1,000,000 scenarios.

That line comes out because too many don't understand the rights they have and are looking for the state to lead them. Which the state will gladly do and if they trample on some of those rights people died for? Oh well at least daddy is keeping us safe. Except when he isn't.

 

[Fat Nick]

Cop punches special needs woman in the face.

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhvvqUN45rNQy4vm30

Cop punching a girl in the side a few times

https://vine.co/v/M310Ebda3EY

Teenage girl stopped for jaywalking gets punched in the face

http://youtu.be/J0WTcTzN96s

Some of these are bad. Cops way out of line clearly...some of them are a little grey...I can't get all of them to play.

That said, these are 4 videos of police incidents gone wrong. I'm not sure if your reason for posting was to continue to propogate the belief that all cops are out to beat people up and take away civil liberties or not, but please consider that a normal police stop where nobody gets hurt and people go on their merry way doesn't make for the best on-line video.

 

[Fat Nick]

Nice. It didn't take long for someone to throw out the ol' "If I'm not doing anything wrong, I have nothing to worry about" line.

That line comes out bc it is true in about 999,999 out of 1,000,000 scenarios.

That line comes out because too many don't understand the rights they have and are looking for the state to lead them. Which the state will gladly do and if they trample on some of those rights people died for? Oh well at least daddy is keeping us safe. Except when he isn't.

I'm not looking for anybody to lead me. I know my rights. I also know when it's worth it to fight for them and when it's not. It's like mouthing off to a UFC fighter...I have the right to mouth off to him if I want...but I also know it's probably not worth the ### beating I'll get for doing so, even though I'm within my rights to mouth off, and he's in the wrong if he hits me.

 

[TobiasFunke]

As a practical matter, yes, you do. The vast majority of police officers are trained for and looking for voluntary compliance. This means getting the person to understand the issue or citation and then move along. Actually hauling you to jail is a pain for the officer as well and in most cases they don't want that any more than you do. Cool, you got a video on YouTube showing how witty you are. For every one of those there are dozens of people who get shot and killed because they couldn't just follow directions. There is a reason police officers have the authorization to use lethal force if they feel threatened. Why? Because it's a job where feeling threatened often = being threatened.

Regardless of race, situation, city or time of day, the best way to avoid getting shot or taZed is to follow directions and be respectful. You don't want to? You don't "Have" to because you "know your rights?" That's fine too. Just remember that being right isn't worth much when you're dead.

It occurs to me that maybe people are talking past each other in this thread.

Yes, of course you should comply with the officer even if he's out of line, for your own safety and the safety of others. However there's a huge difference between us saying it's the wisest course of action and a police officer saying it. If we say it that's just friendly advice from people in similar situations. If a cop says it, that's the aggressor blaming the victim. Two totally different things.

Huge difference between debating the best thing to do in a given situation and debating whether a cop should be publishing an editorial in the Washington Post advising citizens to comply with illegal searches otherwise they're gonna get tazed or cuffed or worse.

 

[NCCommish]

Nice. It didn't take long for someone to throw out the ol' "If I'm not doing anything wrong, I have nothing to worry about" line.

That line comes out bc it is true in about 999,999 out of 1,000,000 scenarios.

That line comes out because too many don't understand the rights they have and are looking for the state to lead them. Which the state will gladly do and if they trample on some of those rights people died for? Oh well at least daddy is keeping us safe. Except when he isn't.

I'm not looking for anybody to lead me. I know my rights. I also know when it's worth it to fight for them and when it's not. It's like mouthing off to a UFC fighter...I have the right to mouth off to him if I want...but I also know it's probably not worth the ### beating I'll get for doing so, even though I'm within my rights to mouth off, and he's in the wrong if he hits me.

Except expressing your rights to the police shouldn't be cowed out of fear that you'll get beaten. That's called Battered Wife Syndrome.

 

[Abraham]

Oh, you are right. I truly had forgotten that the nexus of the thread was that article. Apologies.

 

[Fat Nick]

As a practical matter, yes, you do. The vast majority of police officers are trained for and looking for voluntary compliance. This means getting the person to understand the issue or citation and then move along. Actually hauling you to jail is a pain for the officer as well and in most cases they don't want that any more than you do. Cool, you got a video on YouTube showing how witty you are. For every one of those there are dozens of people who get shot and killed because they couldn't just follow directions. There is a reason police officers have the authorization to use lethal force if they feel threatened. Why? Because it's a job where feeling threatened often = being threatened.

Regardless of race, situation, city or time of day, the best way to avoid getting shot or taZed is to follow directions and be respectful. You don't want to? You don't "Have" to because you "know your rights?" That's fine too. Just remember that being right isn't worth much when you're dead.

It occurs to me that maybe people are talking past each other in this thread.

Yes, of course you should comply with the officer even if he's out of line, for your own safety and the safety of others. However there's a huge difference between us saying it's the wisest course of action and a police officer saying it. If we say it that's just friendly advice from people in similar situations. If a cop says it, that's the aggressor blaming the victim. Two totally different things.

Huge difference between debating the best thing to do in a given situation and debating whether a cop should be publishing an editorial in the Washington Post advising citizens to comply with illegal searches otherwise they're gonna get tazed or cuffed or worse.

I agree.

But I still feel like a lot of people here disagree with the bolded statement because in doing so, you're allowing police to "trample on some of those rights people died for?" That's been my point all along. Just because you feel that it's easier to just go along with it rather than become some modern day rights activist doesn't mean you're disrespecting anyone. You're realizing that you are playing a game with someone who doesn't obey the rules, and they have the power in this circumstance...sometimes it's just best to play by their rules, consent to "lose," and move on.

 

[Ilov80s]

Cop punches special needs woman in the face.

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhvvqUN45rNQy4vm30

Cop punching a girl in the side a few times

https://vine.co/v/M310Ebda3EY

Teenage girl stopped for jaywalking gets punched in the face

http://youtu.be/J0WTcTzN96s

Some of these are bad. Cops way out of line clearly...some of them are a little grey...I can't get all of them to play.

That said, these are 4 videos of police incidents gone wrong. I'm not sure if your reason for posting was to continue to propogate the belief that all cops are out to beat people up and take away civil liberties or not, but please consider that a normal police stop where nobody gets hurt and people go on their merry way doesn't make for the best on-line video.

Obviously. I don't think anyone is trying say that all cops are monsters.

 

[Fat Nick]

Nice. It didn't take long for someone to throw out the ol' "If I'm not doing anything wrong, I have nothing to worry about" line.

That line comes out bc it is true in about 999,999 out of 1,000,000 scenarios.

That line comes out because too many don't understand the rights they have and are looking for the state to lead them. Which the state will gladly do and if they trample on some of those rights people died for? Oh well at least daddy is keeping us safe. Except when he isn't.

I'm not looking for anybody to lead me. I know my rights. I also know when it's worth it to fight for them and when it's not. It's like mouthing off to a UFC fighter...I have the right to mouth off to him if I want...but I also know it's probably not worth the ### beating I'll get for doing so, even though I'm within my rights to mouth off, and he's in the wrong if he hits me.

Except expressing your rights to the police shouldn't be cowed out of fear that you'll get beaten. That's called Battered Wife Syndrome.

I agree 100%...it SHOULDN'T be, but in the scenario we've been discussing, with a cop who is clearly on a power trip, it IS. I'd rather take that up with the officer's superiors after I've left the scene than try and rationalize with the guy on the spot.

Again...not justifying the cops actions. Saying that pulling the rights card on a cop already over the line for the sake of standing up for our rights isn't always a wise decision.

Do people really think that telling a cop on a power trip that you won't obey his orders because you have rights (and are otherwise innocent) is really a good idea? Really...I'm seriously asking just to make sure I'm not reading into this.

 

[Fat Nick]

Cop punches special needs woman in the face.

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhvvqUN45rNQy4vm30

Cop punching a girl in the side a few times

https://vine.co/v/M310Ebda3EY

Teenage girl stopped for jaywalking gets punched in the face

http://youtu.be/J0WTcTzN96s

Some of these are bad. Cops way out of line clearly...some of them are a little grey...I can't get all of them to play.

That said, these are 4 videos of police incidents gone wrong. I'm not sure if your reason for posting was to continue to propogate the belief that all cops are out to beat people up and take away civil liberties or not, but please consider that a normal police stop where nobody gets hurt and people go on their merry way doesn't make for the best on-line video.

Obviously. I don't think anyone is trying say that all cops are monsters.

Got it. Either way, these videos are sad and definately speak to why we're even having this kind of conversation...

 

[TobiasFunke]

As a practical matter, yes, you do. The vast majority of police officers are trained for and looking for voluntary compliance. This means getting the person to understand the issue or citation and then move along. Actually hauling you to jail is a pain for the officer as well and in most cases they don't want that any more than you do. Cool, you got a video on YouTube showing how witty you are. For every one of those there are dozens of people who get shot and killed because they couldn't just follow directions. There is a reason police officers have the authorization to use lethal force if they feel threatened. Why? Because it's a job where feeling threatened often = being threatened.

Regardless of race, situation, city or time of day, the best way to avoid getting shot or taZed is to follow directions and be respectful. You don't want to? You don't "Have" to because you "know your rights?" That's fine too. Just remember that being right isn't worth much when you're dead.

It occurs to me that maybe people are talking past each other in this thread.

Yes, of course you should comply with the officer even if he's out of line, for your own safety and the safety of others. However there's a huge difference between us saying it's the wisest course of action and a police officer saying it. If we say it that's just friendly advice from people in similar situations. If a cop says it, that's the aggressor blaming the victim. Two totally different things.

Huge difference between debating the best thing to do in a given situation and debating whether a cop should be publishing an editorial in the Washington Post advising citizens to comply with illegal searches otherwise they're gonna get tazed or cuffed or worse.

I agree.

But I still feel like a lot of people here disagree with the bolded statement because in doing so, you're allowing police to "trample on some of those rights people died for?" That's been my point all along. Just because you feel that it's easier to just go along with it rather than become some modern day rights activist doesn't mean you're disrespecting anyone. You're realizing that you are playing a game with someone who doesn't obey the rules, and they have the power in this circumstance...sometimes it's just best to play by their rules, consent to "lose," and move on.

Right. I'd say it's your call. I don't have a problem with someone doing either. The only thing I have a problem with here is a cop telling you to suck it up and deal with illegal police activity or you're partially to blame for whatever violence ensues. That's a dangerous attitude for a police officer to have, and it's a little scary that a guy who served for 17 years and distinguished himself enough to get a professor gig afterwards would think that. Makes you wonder what the run of the mill guys in the force think.

 

[Gene Sackman]

People who dont cooperate with cops are ridiculous. Good rule of thumb, dont #### with people who are paid to #### with you.

 

[Ilov80s]

People who dont cooperate with cops are ridiculous. Good rule of thumb, dont #### with people who are paid to #### with you.

That's the whole point. They aren't paid to #### with us, but that's what in many areas we have allowed it to turn into.

 

[Henry Ford]

Nice. It didn't take long for someone to throw out the ol' "If I'm not doing anything wrong, I have nothing to worry about" line.

That line comes out bc it is true in about 999,999 out of 1,000,000 scenarios.

That line comes out because too many don't understand the rights they have and are looking for the state to lead them. Which the state will gladly do and if they trample on some of those rights people died for? Oh well at least daddy is keeping us safe. Except when he isn't.

I'm not looking for anybody to lead me. I know my rights. I also know when it's worth it to fight for them and when it's not. It's like mouthing off to a UFC fighter...I have the right to mouth off to him if I want...but I also know it's probably not worth the ### beating I'll get for doing so, even though I'm within my rights to mouth off, and he's in the wrong if he hits me.

Except expressing your rights to the police shouldn't be cowed out of fear that you'll get beaten. That's called Battered Wife Syndrome.

I agree 100%...it SHOULDN'T be, but in the scenario we've been discussing, with a cop who is clearly on a power trip, it IS. I'd rather take that up with the officer's superiors after I've left the scene than try and rationalize with the guy on the spot.

Again...not justifying the cops actions. Saying that pulling the rights card on a cop already over the line for the sake of standing up for our rights isn't always a wise decision.

Do people really think that telling a cop on a power trip that you won't obey his orders because you have rights (and are otherwise innocent) is really a good idea? Really...I'm seriously asking just to make sure I'm not reading into this.

I think it generally depends on your position and where you are relative to home. I understand that's not how everyone handles it, but when I am 100% in the right and by myself so it won't mess up anyone else, yes I challenge. I also alert the officer to the reason I know I'm right. It helps to know the law, it helps more to be a lawyer, it helps even more to know every judge in my parish, and it certainly doesn't hurt that my office shares a wall with Internal Affairs for my parish's Sheriff. Of course, I know (at least by sight) virtually every officer between my home and my office. If I were in a different city, I'd probably react differently.

The people who can stand up to this sort of this thing with relative impunity should.

 

[Fat Nick]

As a practical matter, yes, you do. The vast majority of police officers are trained for and looking for voluntary compliance. This means getting the person to understand the issue or citation and then move along. Actually hauling you to jail is a pain for the officer as well and in most cases they don't want that any more than you do. Cool, you got a video on YouTube showing how witty you are. For every one of those there are dozens of people who get shot and killed because they couldn't just follow directions. There is a reason police officers have the authorization to use lethal force if they feel threatened. Why? Because it's a job where feeling threatened often = being threatened.

Regardless of race, situation, city or time of day, the best way to avoid getting shot or taZed is to follow directions and be respectful. You don't want to? You don't "Have" to because you "know your rights?" That's fine too. Just remember that being right isn't worth much when you're dead.

It occurs to me that maybe people are talking past each other in this thread.

Yes, of course you should comply with the officer even if he's out of line, for your own safety and the safety of others. However there's a huge difference between us saying it's the wisest course of action and a police officer saying it. If we say it that's just friendly advice from people in similar situations. If a cop says it, that's the aggressor blaming the victim. Two totally different things.

Huge difference between debating the best thing to do in a given situation and debating whether a cop should be publishing an editorial in the Washington Post advising citizens to comply with illegal searches otherwise they're gonna get tazed or cuffed or worse.

I agree.

But I still feel like a lot of people here disagree with the bolded statement because in doing so, you're allowing police to "trample on some of those rights people died for?" That's been my point all along. Just because you feel that it's easier to just go along with it rather than become some modern day rights activist doesn't mean you're disrespecting anyone. You're realizing that you are playing a game with someone who doesn't obey the rules, and they have the power in this circumstance...sometimes it's just best to play by their rules, consent to "lose," and move on.

Right. I'd say it's your call. I don't have a problem with someone doing either. The only thing I have a problem with here is a cop telling you to suck it up and deal with illegal police activity or you're partially to blame for whatever violence ensues. That's a dangerous attitude for a police officer to have, and it's a little scary that a guy who served for 17 years and distinguished himself enough to get a professor gig afterwards would think that. Makes you wonder what the run of the mill guys in the force think.

Agree. Totally. It's very scary.

 

[TobiasFunke]

People who dont cooperate with cops are ridiculous. Good rule of thumb, dont #### with people who are paid to #### with you.

That's the whole point. They aren't paid to #### with us, but that's what in many areas we have allowed it to turn into.

Yeah, it's a little frightening that someone would even think that. They're paid to pretty much do the opposite of #### with us.

Perhaps he confused police and prostitutes?

 

[Fat Nick]

I agree 100%...it SHOULDN'T be, but in the scenario we've been discussing, with a cop who is clearly on a power trip, it IS. I'd rather take that up with the officer's superiors after I've left the scene than try and rationalize with the guy on the spot.

Again...not justifying the cops actions. Saying that pulling the rights card on a cop already over the line for the sake of standing up for our rights isn't always a wise decision.

Do people really think that telling a cop on a power trip that you won't obey his orders because you have rights (and are otherwise innocent) is really a good idea? Really...I'm seriously asking just to make sure I'm not reading into this.

I think it generally depends on your position and where you are relative to home. I understand that's not how everyone handles it, but when I am 100% in the right and by myself so it won't mess up anyone else, yes I challenge. I also alert the officer to the reason I know I'm right. It helps to know the law, it helps more to be a lawyer, it helps even more to know every judge in my parish, and it certainly doesn't hurt that my office shares a wall with Internal Affairs for my parish's Sheriff. Of course, I know (at least by sight) virtually every officer between my home and my office. If I were in a different city, I'd probably react differently.

The people who can stand up to this sort of this thing with relative impunity should.

Ok...so yeah. There's that. I certainly can't lay claim to ANY of that. In your shoes, I totally agree.

 

[pantagrapher]

Even the ACLU recommends the only things you should really say during an unwanted interaction with police are "Am I free to go?" and "I'd like to have a lawyer." They also say you should invoke the lawyer the second you're informed you're under arrest. If you feel you are being treated unfairly, try to remember everything you can about your interaction with the police and write it all down as soon as possible. Be polite. Don't argue. Don't resist.

Of course, this is extremely hard for pretty much anyone to do in that situation. But if you're looking for justice, it's your best course of action.

 

[Christo]

Even the ACLU recommends the only things you should really say during an unwanted interaction with police are "Am I free to go?" and "I'd like to have a lawyer." They also say you should invoke the lawyer the second you're informed you're under arrest. If you feel you are being treated unfairly, try to remember everything you can about your interaction with the police and write it all down as soon as possible. Be polite. Don't argue. Don't resist.

Of course, this is extremely hard for pretty much anyone to do in that situation. But if you're looking for justice, it's your best course of action.

Yep. If the cops want to do something they will win initially. So the question you have to ask yourself is where do you want to make your stand? Right then in the dark of night where that cop has the unfettered ability to act within his discretion or in the light of day where that cop isn't the one in control?

 

[Sinn Fein]

"Rosa Parks stood up for her rights."

"Yeah but she went to jail. Why go through that pain in the ### just to prove a point?"

@ even trying to equate Rosa Parks standing up for her rights to some schmuck refusing a search of his car at a sobriety check-point or something. You aren't going down in history as some great savior for that.

You keep talking about a car. I very clearly said "finger in your ###."

OK...I get it. At some point above, somebody (maybe not you) was discussing this as a routine traffic stop...regardless..

@ even trying to equate Rosa Parks standing up for her rights to some schmuck refusing a finger in his #### at a sobriety check-point or something. You aren't going down in history as some great savior for that either.

I can see it now...all THESE people marching on the Capitol with signs, "Save our bums!" "End police fingering!"

I wasn't trying to equate anything. It's called an analogy.

But could you do me a favor and list which of our civil rights are worth standing up for and which ones we should just let go?

Finger in the ### - just let it go man, once it is inevitable, relax and enjoy it.

 

[fantasycurse42]

If I get pulled over at nighttime (which I haven't in prob 6-7 years), I instantly turn all of the lights in my car on and keep my hands on the steering wheel until the cop is at my window. Instantly sets the tone that I am a law abiding citizen with zero to hide and makes the interaction as easy on both of us as possible.

This is a good starting point for not only "not starting ####" but also being easy to deal with.

Sounds like something else should be expected in Ferguson...

2. Black people account for most arrests in Ferguson

Last year, black residents accounted for 86% of the vehicle stops made by Ferguson police and nearly 93% of the arrests made from those stops, according to the state attorney general. FBI statistics show that 85% of the people arrested by Ferguson police are black, and that 92% of people arrested specifically for disorderly conduct are black.

Are you quoting this to say I don't get pulled over bc I'm white and not that I wear a seatbelt & obey traffic laws?

i'm saying that you might feel differently if you got pulled over a lot more than you have been. you might feel differently if you stood a greater chance of being *arrested* for "disorderly conduct", which i think we all can agree is kind of overly broad. you might feel differently if you car was searched more often.systemic problem there in Ferguson, obviously. we can be cavalier if we want, saying "don't do stupid ####" and how we need to "respect" the authority of the police but it all rings a little hollow in light of this kind of data reporting.

What about in NYC, you're aware white officers are not the majority, yet blacks and Hispanics make up the large majority of arrests? Must be racism

Still waiting on a response here, anyone?

 

[Henry Ford]

I agree 100%...it SHOULDN'T be, but in the scenario we've been discussing, with a cop who is clearly on a power trip, it IS. I'd rather take that up with the officer's superiors after I've left the scene than try and rationalize with the guy on the spot.

Again...not justifying the cops actions. Saying that pulling the rights card on a cop already over the line for the sake of standing up for our rights isn't always a wise decision.

Do people really think that telling a cop on a power trip that you won't obey his orders because you have rights (and are otherwise innocent) is really a good idea? Really...I'm seriously asking just to make sure I'm not reading into this.

I think it generally depends on your position and where you are relative to home. I understand that's not how everyone handles it, but when I am 100% in the right and by myself so it won't mess up anyone else, yes I challenge. I also alert the officer to the reason I know I'm right. It helps to know the law, it helps more to be a lawyer, it helps even more to know every judge in my parish, and it certainly doesn't hurt that my office shares a wall with Internal Affairs for my parish's Sheriff. Of course, I know (at least by sight) virtually every officer between my home and my office. If I were in a different city, I'd probably react differently.

The people who can stand up to this sort of this thing with relative impunity should.

Ok...so yeah. There's that. I certainly can't lay claim to ANY of that. In your shoes, I totally agree.

Right, I forget that not everyone is in the same position that I am when I get righteously indignant about my rights.

 

[NCCommish]

I agree 100%...it SHOULDN'T be, but in the scenario we've been discussing, with a cop who is clearly on a power trip, it IS. I'd rather take that up with the officer's superiors after I've left the scene than try and rationalize with the guy on the spot.

Again...not justifying the cops actions. Saying that pulling the rights card on a cop already over the line for the sake of standing up for our rights isn't always a wise decision.

Do people really think that telling a cop on a power trip that you won't obey his orders because you have rights (and are otherwise innocent) is really a good idea? Really...I'm seriously asking just to make sure I'm not reading into this.

I think it generally depends on your position and where you are relative to home. I understand that's not how everyone handles it, but when I am 100% in the right and by myself so it won't mess up anyone else, yes I challenge. I also alert the officer to the reason I know I'm right. It helps to know the law, it helps more to be a lawyer, it helps even more to know every judge in my parish, and it certainly doesn't hurt that my office shares a wall with Internal Affairs for my parish's Sheriff. Of course, I know (at least by sight) virtually every officer between my home and my office. If I were in a different city, I'd probably react differently.

The people who can stand up to this sort of this thing with relative impunity should.

Ok...so yeah. There's that. I certainly can't lay claim to ANY of that. In your shoes, I totally agree.

Right, I forget that not everyone is in the same position that I am when I get righteously indignant about my rights.

I personally have issues with most authority and especially overzealous application of authority. So my position may not warrant my indignation but I got one more thing going for me even though I am not connected. I am a white guy. That seems to go a long way.

 

[Henry Ford]

I agree 100%...it SHOULDN'T be, but in the scenario we've been discussing, with a cop who is clearly on a power trip, it IS. I'd rather take that up with the officer's superiors after I've left the scene than try and rationalize with the guy on the spot.

Again...not justifying the cops actions. Saying that pulling the rights card on a cop already over the line for the sake of standing up for our rights isn't always a wise decision.

Do people really think that telling a cop on a power trip that you won't obey his orders because you have rights (and are otherwise innocent) is really a good idea? Really...I'm seriously asking just to make sure I'm not reading into this.

I think it generally depends on your position and where you are relative to home. I understand that's not how everyone handles it, but when I am 100% in the right and by myself so it won't mess up anyone else, yes I challenge. I also alert the officer to the reason I know I'm right. It helps to know the law, it helps more to be a lawyer, it helps even more to know every judge in my parish, and it certainly doesn't hurt that my office shares a wall with Internal Affairs for my parish's Sheriff. Of course, I know (at least by sight) virtually every officer between my home and my office. If I were in a different city, I'd probably react differently.

The people who can stand up to this sort of this thing with relative impunity should.

Ok...so yeah. There's that. I certainly can't lay claim to ANY of that. In your shoes, I totally agree.

Right, I forget that not everyone is in the same position that I am when I get righteously indignant about my rights.

I personally have issues with most authority and especially overzealous application of authority. So my position may not warrant my indignation but I got one more thing going for me even though I am not connected. I am a white guy. That seems to go a long way.

Yes, well, that goes without saying.

 

[Fat Nick]

I agree 100%...it SHOULDN'T be, but in the scenario we've been discussing, with a cop who is clearly on a power trip, it IS. I'd rather take that up with the officer's superiors after I've left the scene than try and rationalize with the guy on the spot.

Again...not justifying the cops actions. Saying that pulling the rights card on a cop already over the line for the sake of standing up for our rights isn't always a wise decision.

Do people really think that telling a cop on a power trip that you won't obey his orders because you have rights (and are otherwise innocent) is really a good idea? Really...I'm seriously asking just to make sure I'm not reading into this.

I think it generally depends on your position and where you are relative to home. I understand that's not how everyone handles it, but when I am 100% in the right and by myself so it won't mess up anyone else, yes I challenge. I also alert the officer to the reason I know I'm right. It helps to know the law, it helps more to be a lawyer, it helps even more to know every judge in my parish, and it certainly doesn't hurt that my office shares a wall with Internal Affairs for my parish's Sheriff. Of course, I know (at least by sight) virtually every officer between my home and my office. If I were in a different city, I'd probably react differently.

The people who can stand up to this sort of this thing with relative impunity should.

Ok...so yeah. There's that. I certainly can't lay claim to ANY of that. In your shoes, I totally agree.

Right, I forget that not everyone is in the same position that I am when I get righteously indignant about my rights.

I personally have issues with most authority and especially overzealous application of authority. So my position may not warrant my indignation but I got one more thing going for me even though I am not connected. I am a white guy. That seems to go a long way.

You sound like my wife. The number of times we've almost missed flights because she's mouthing off to TSA in the airport...Oy. Kind of another time where I tend to be one to just smile and nod and accept them exercising an ounce of power to the fullest so I can move along. She'd rather teach them a lesson.

 

[James Daulton]

I wonder if there's ever been a study done on the personality types that are drawn to law enforcement careers? I don't have any hard data to back it up, but I don't recall any of the best or brightest kids I knew aspiring to be police officers. People realize that it is a potentially dangerous career with limited upside financially. The people I knew who became cops became cops because they didn't want to go to college and most of them had a pretty aggressive personality. So from my limited exposure, we put a lot of responsibility in the hands of some personality types who may behave aggressively by nature and aren't necessarily the brightest minds among our society. Maybe that's ok though and that's how things should be?

 

[fantasycurse42]

Seriously, a bunch of "being white makes you invincible" types in this thread... I'm going to start robbing banks as a side job and just point to the nearest black man when I walk out, drink my latte, and head back to my cushy job appointed to me for being born white.

Can we use some hard stats from one of the largest cities in the world? I feel hard numbers are hard to argue.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/analysis_and_planning/crime_and_enforcement_activity.shtml

Look at the 2013 arrest report above.

http://mycrains.crainsnewyork.com/stats-and-the-city/2011/demographics/racial-breakdown-by-borough

Now look at the racial breakdown of the city above.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Police_Department

Quote here from 2010, however these numbers continue to grow in favor of minorities and whites are officially not majority of the entire force in the NYPD as of 2011.

Of 22,199 officers on patrol, 53% (11,717) were black, Latino (of any race), or Asian or Asian-American.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Seriously, a bunch of "being white makes you invincible" types in this thread... I'm going to start robbing banks as a side job and just point to the nearest black man when I walk out, drink my latte, and head back to my cushy job appointed to me for being born white.

Can we use some hard stats from one of the largest cities in the world? I feel hard numbers are hard to argue.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/analysis_and_planning/crime_and_enforcement_activity.shtml

Look at the 2013 arrest report above.

http://mycrains.crainsnewyork.com/stats-and-the-city/2011/demographics/racial-breakdown-by-borough

Now look at the racial breakdown of the city above.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Police_Department

Quote here from 2010, however these numbers continue to grow in favor of minorities and whites are officially not majority of the entire force in the NYPD as of 2011.

Of 22,199 officers on patrol, 53% (11,717) were black, Latino (of any race), or Asian or Asian-American.

I have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to make or now any of this data is relevant to the subject of this thread.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Seriously, a bunch of "being white makes you invincible" types in this thread... I'm going to start robbing banks as a side job and just point to the nearest black man when I walk out, drink my latte, and head back to my cushy job appointed to me for being born white.

Can we use some hard stats from one of the largest cities in the world? I feel hard numbers are hard to argue.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/analysis_and_planning/crime_and_enforcement_activity.shtml

Look at the 2013 arrest report above.

http://mycrains.crainsnewyork.com/stats-and-the-city/2011/demographics/racial-breakdown-by-borough

Now look at the racial breakdown of the city above.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Police_Department

Quote here from 2010, however these numbers continue to grow in favor of minorities and whites are officially not majority of the entire force in the NYPD as of 2011.

Of 22,199 officers on patrol, 53% (11,717) were black, Latino (of any race), or Asian or Asian-American.

I have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to make or now any of this data is relevant to the subject of this thread.

Really? You're a smart guy, pretty sure you can figure this one out...

The people committing crimes are being arrested, regardless of race by officers of a very diverse makeup.

You know why I haven't been arrested or had any unpleasant encounters with LE recently? It isn't bc I'm white, that's your only hint.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Seriously, a bunch of "being white makes you invincible" types in this thread... I'm going to start robbing banks as a side job and just point to the nearest black man when I walk out, drink my latte, and head back to my cushy job appointed to me for being born white.

Can we use some hard stats from one of the largest cities in the world? I feel hard numbers are hard to argue.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/analysis_and_planning/crime_and_enforcement_activity.shtml

Look at the 2013 arrest report above.

http://mycrains.crainsnewyork.com/stats-and-the-city/2011/demographics/racial-breakdown-by-borough

Now look at the racial breakdown of the city above.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Police_Department

Quote here from 2010, however these numbers continue to grow in favor of minorities and whites are officially not majority of the entire force in the NYPD as of 2011.

Of 22,199 officers on patrol, 53% (11,717) were black, Latino (of any race), or Asian or Asian-American.

I have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to make or now any of this data is relevant to the subject of this thread.

Really? You're a smart guy, pretty sure you can figure this one out...

The people committing crimes are being arrested, regardless of race by officers of a very diverse makeup.

You know why I haven't been arrested or had any unpleasant encounters with LE recently? It isn't bc I'm white, that's your only hint.

Yeah, I still have no idea what this has to do with the subject of this thread, which is the editorial in the OP and the appropriate response to iffy behavior by police officers. And I have no desire to get baited into a dumb, irrelevant race argument.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Seriously, a bunch of "being white makes you invincible" types in this thread... I'm going to start robbing banks as a side job and just point to the nearest black man when I walk out, drink my latte, and head back to my cushy job appointed to me for being born white.

Can we use some hard stats from one of the largest cities in the world? I feel hard numbers are hard to argue.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/analysis_and_planning/crime_and_enforcement_activity.shtml

Look at the 2013 arrest report above.

http://mycrains.crainsnewyork.com/stats-and-the-city/2011/demographics/racial-breakdown-by-borough

Now look at the racial breakdown of the city above.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Police_Department

Quote here from 2010, however these numbers continue to grow in favor of minorities and whites are officially not majority of the entire force in the NYPD as of 2011.

Of 22,199 officers on patrol, 53% (11,717) were black, Latino (of any race), or Asian or Asian-American.

I have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to make or now any of this data is relevant to the subject of this thread.

Really? You're a smart guy, pretty sure you can figure this one out...

The people committing crimes are being arrested, regardless of race by officers of a very diverse makeup.

You know why I haven't been arrested or had any unpleasant encounters with LE recently? It isn't bc I'm white, that's your only hint.

Yeah, I still have no idea what this has to do with the subject of this thread, which is the editorial in the OP and the appropriate response to iffy behavior by police officers. And I have no desire to get baited into a dumb, irrelevant race argument.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=711083&p=17123540

3rd comment of this thread...

People only choose to selectively argue this stuff until hard data completely dismantles their points.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

I wonder if there's ever been a study done on the personality types that are drawn to law enforcement careers? I don't have any hard data to back it up, but I don't recall any of the best or brightest kids I knew aspiring to be police officers. People realize that it is a potentially dangerous career with limited upside financially. The people I knew who became cops became cops because they didn't want to go to college and most of them had a pretty aggressive personality. So from my limited exposure, we put a lot of responsibility in the hands of some personality types who may behave aggressively by nature and aren't necessarily the brightest minds among our society. Maybe that's ok though and that's how things should be?

A very good friend of mine when I was younger became a cop and rose to Lt. Haven't stayed connected with him over the last decade but I see him on TV quite a bit-sitting up front during town hall meetings addressing citizen concerns. I know he also had some issues in the community with excessive force with minorities years ago. I never heard the outcome of that.

I played in several flag football leagues with him, YMCA B-Ball leagues, hung out with him all the time. He was a hothead-always jawing with guys on other teams, pushing and shoving, that kind of thing. People began to go out of their way to bait him once they knew he had a quick temper.

Meaningless anecdote, but when I found out he was becoming a cop I knew he'd 1) probably succeed at it and 2) also have some kind of issue with his personality on the job. It hasn't hurt his advancement in the force obviously.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

Seriously, a bunch of "being white makes you invincible" types in this thread... I'm going to start robbing banks as a side job and just point to the nearest black man when I walk out, drink my latte, and head back to my cushy job appointed to me for being born white.

Can we use some hard stats from one of the largest cities in the world? I feel hard numbers are hard to argue.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/analysis_and_planning/crime_and_enforcement_activity.shtml

Look at the 2013 arrest report above.

http://mycrains.crainsnewyork.com/stats-and-the-city/2011/demographics/racial-breakdown-by-borough

Now look at the racial breakdown of the city above.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Police_Department

Quote here from 2010, however these numbers continue to grow in favor of minorities and whites are officially not majority of the entire force in the NYPD as of 2011.

Of 22,199 officers on patrol, 53% (11,717) were black, Latino (of any race), or Asian or Asian-American.

I have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to make or now any of this data is relevant to the subject of this thread.

Really? You're a smart guy, pretty sure you can figure this one out...The people committing crimes are being arrested, regardless of race by officers of a very diverse makeup.

You know why I haven't been arrested or had any unpleasant encounters with LE recently? It isn't bc I'm white, that's your only hint.

Yeah, I still have no idea what this has to do with the subject of this thread, which is the editorial in the OP and the appropriate response to iffy behavior by police officers. And I have no desire to get baited into a dumb, irrelevant race argument.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=711083&p=17123540

3rd comment of this thread...

People only choose to selectively argue this stuff until hard data completely dismantles their points.

This has been brought up in past threads so I won't link to something and just go off memory, but aren't something like 82% of "stop and frisks" in NYC performed on minorities ( or blacks?) , even though whites use drugs at a similar rate as other groups? That would seem to refute the claim that "people committing crimes are being arrested regardless of race" wouldn't it?

 

[fantasycurse42]

Seriously, a bunch of "being white makes you invincible" types in this thread... I'm going to start robbing banks as a side job and just point to the nearest black man when I walk out, drink my latte, and head back to my cushy job appointed to me for being born white.

Can we use some hard stats from one of the largest cities in the world? I feel hard numbers are hard to argue.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/analysis_and_planning/crime_and_enforcement_activity.shtml

Look at the 2013 arrest report above.

http://mycrains.crainsnewyork.com/stats-and-the-city/2011/demographics/racial-breakdown-by-borough

Now look at the racial breakdown of the city above.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Police_Department

Quote here from 2010, however these numbers continue to grow in favor of minorities and whites are officially not majority of the entire force in the NYPD as of 2011.

Of 22,199 officers on patrol, 53% (11,717) were black, Latino (of any race), or Asian or Asian-American.

I have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to make or now any of this data is relevant to the subject of this thread.

Really? You're a smart guy, pretty sure you can figure this one out...The people committing crimes are being arrested, regardless of race by officers of a very diverse makeup.

You know why I haven't been arrested or had any unpleasant encounters with LE recently? It isn't bc I'm white, that's your only hint.

Yeah, I still have no idea what this has to do with the subject of this thread, which is the editorial in the OP and the appropriate response to iffy behavior by police officers. And I have no desire to get baited into a dumb, irrelevant race argument.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=711083&p=17123540

3rd comment of this thread...

People only choose to selectively argue this stuff until hard data completely dismantles their points.

This has been brought up in past threads so I won't link to something and just go off memory, but aren't something like 82% of "stop and frisks" in NYC performed on minorities ( or blacks?) , even though whites use drugs at a similar rate as other groups? That would seem to refute the claim that "people committing crimes are being arrested regardless of race" wouldn't it?

Look at the violent crime data or felony data, whites are extremely less likely to commit these crimes and it isn't a racist thing, it is a statistic thing. The officers performing the stop and frisks are more likely to be black, hispanic, or Asian than white too.

I'm not going to speak of other places in the country that I am not familiar with, just largest city in this country by far (which also happens to be extremely diverse).

ETA: The ACLU points to all their data that stop and frisk is bad, but an article in the Daily News (the most liberal NYC newspaper) from a few weeks ago showed that in the most dangerous neighborhoods of this city, the shooting rates (or it might have been homicide rates, don't remember) were up over 40% compared to the same time period from last year.

ETA2: It was shootings, data could be argued by either side, it will be years before conclusive.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/nypd-stop-and-frisks-drop-99-percent-shootings-increase-brooklyn-article-1.1905456

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/homicides-shootings-rise-citywide-article-1.1823173

 

[saintfool]

If I get pulled over at nighttime (which I haven't in prob 6-7 years), I instantly turn all of the lights in my car on and keep my hands on the steering wheel until the cop is at my window. Instantly sets the tone that I am a law abiding citizen with zero to hide and makes the interaction as easy on both of us as possible.

This is a good starting point for not only "not starting ####" but also being easy to deal with.

Sounds like something else should be expected in Ferguson...

2. Black people account for most arrests in Ferguson

Last year, black residents accounted for 86% of the vehicle stops made by Ferguson police and nearly 93% of the arrests made from those stops, according to the state attorney general. FBI statistics show that 85% of the people arrested by Ferguson police are black, and that 92% of people arrested specifically for disorderly conduct are black.

Are you quoting this to say I don't get pulled over bc I'm white and not that I wear a seatbelt & obey traffic laws?

i'm saying that you might feel differently if you got pulled over a lot more than you have been. you might feel differently if you stood a greater chance of being *arrested* for "disorderly conduct", which i think we all can agree is kind of overly broad. you might feel differently if you car was searched more often.systemic problem there in Ferguson, obviously. we can be cavalier if we want, saying "don't do stupid ####" and how we need to "respect" the authority of the police but it all rings a little hollow in light of this kind of data reporting.

What about in NYC, you're aware white officers are not the majority, yet blacks and Hispanics make up the large majority of arrests? Must be racism

Still waiting on a response here, anyone?

please see in bold. i haven't been speaking to anything beyond the possible problem with the Ferguson PD here. .

 

[saintfool]

Seriously, a bunch of "being white makes you invincible" types in this thread... I'm going to start robbing banks as a side job and just point to the nearest black man when I walk out, drink my latte, and head back to my cushy job appointed to me for being born white.

why rob the banks? they'll give you the money.