rockaction
Footballguy
You'd be wrong about fringe. He'd be a sought-after and go-to guy for almost everything under the sun. Probably the bigger question is whether or not he would pull a Salinger and ditch the go-to part of that equation.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
In this thread I rank my favorite post-Beatles Beatles songs: 291-1. (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter krista4
- Start date
facook
Footballguy
facook
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
I honestly don't know. Also, I didn't mean to say you'd definitely be "wrong," as I put it, just that I wanted to cross out the fringe part of the whole thing. To me, fringe is like Kathy Griffin or whoever that D-Lister is. Lennon would be sought after in a million different ways, and he and Yoko would be inevitably political whether they wanted to be or not. In comparison, I can't think of anybody that fits. He was singular.
Last edited by a moderator:
Neal Cassady
Footballguy
facook
Footballguy
No worries, no offense taken. And I readily admit I could be wrong on each front. I'm biased as a person who just flat out is not a fan of him as a person. I guess I meant "fringe" more in the realm of someone like Paul or Ringo. Obviously Paul is a gigantic celebrity, but he's not appearing on CNN or Today to comment on the latest social or political happenings (as far as I know...honestly I'm totally talking out my @$$ here). I think John COULD have done that, and maybe would have had his life taken a certain arc. I just think he'd be so miserable and disgusted by what he saw as a lesser world around him that he wouldn't interact.
Again, could be and hope I'm wrong.
Last edited by a moderator:
rockaction
Footballguy
I think you're actually pretty right on. I think he would be sought after and might not interact. That's why I brought up Salinger, who notoriously chose to be a hermit because of what he saw as a lesser world.
krista4
Footballguy
Enjoying the John discussion, even though it all depresses me as well. I'd like to think that John would have mellowed and in fact - and I might just be hoping here - that he already had started this. He and Paul had made amends, and he'd taken that extended period off from music that I think helped. When he came back with Double Fantasy, he was much less overtly political and generally dealing with themes of purported marital bliss. Not that I'm criticizing him for the political side - it's hard for me to talk about that without this turning into a PSF thread that we all don't want! Like facook, I didn't much like him as a person a lot of the time even those his Beatles songs were my faves. But I tell myself that he was getting to be a better man as he aged.
In sum, I haven't a freaking clue where he would be been ten, twenty, thirty years later, but even thinking about it is making me horribly sad.
ETA: I burst into tears at that beach house scene near the end of the movie Yesterday.
In sum, I haven't a freaking clue where he would be been ten, twenty, thirty years later, but even thinking about it is making me horribly sad.
ETA: I burst into tears at that beach house scene near the end of the movie Yesterday.
Last edited by a moderator:
Morton Muffley
Footballguy
I've grown to accept Paul's falsetto on this song over time (but still not in my top 100). It definitely grows on you - as does another falsetto performance of his from years later that may (or may not) be upcoming. I prefer the MJ version and was unaware of the back story so thanks for sharing that! I will only add that this song celebrating infidelity makes it only the THIRD creepiest song recorded during the London Town sessions!
krista4
Footballguy
Not quite in my top 100 either, at 135, but I've grown to like it better than I used to, enough that it made the list. At first it was actually my lowest ranked Paul song that made it, but I moved it up a little as I went along.
I am dying to know the other two creepier songs! By the way, as I reveal these I'd love to hear when one is on your top 100 and where it falls, if you want to share that.
Morton Muffley
Footballguy
It's interesting to ponder. In many ways I agree with you that he was starting to mellow, that he and Paul made amends - they were planning to get together in a studio in January 1981 though they also ALMOST got together in studio in New Orleans in 1975 and DID get together in a studio during John's lost "weekend" so who knows what would have happened. I do think the Reagan years would've been tough for John but who knows. It is indeed sad to think about what might have been. As much as I am a Paul guy for their solo careers I have a harder time deciding who I prefer for the Beatles years.
Last edited by a moderator:
Morton Muffley
Footballguy
Yes, understood as I know you began with~ 140 Paul songs. My plan to give you the space you deserve is to comment on the Paul tunes and let you know where they are on my list - or in this case that they are not. If you are ok with me riding your coat tails that'd be my plan.
The other two creepier songs:
#2 Famous Groupies (benefits from being unlistenable IMO)
#1 Girls' School (unfortunately it's creepy and catchy - though still not in my top 100)
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
I generally agree.
However, I've found some that I like that are not mainstream.
This is to remind me to find a link or two for later.
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
prosopis
Arizona Chupacabra
krista4
Footballguy
facook
Footballguy
The unspoken elephant in the room re: John is Yoko. I feel like we're all the buddies saying "Yo bro, if she makes you happy, Godspeed" but behind his back saying "That girl is POOOOOIIIIISSSOOOOONNNNN..." Maybe she really was the love of his life. But there can't be one John/Beatles fan that thought she was good news, not for one minute of the last 52ish years.
ETA: So the buddies could have all been wrong, all of these years. Yoko could have mellowed him and helped him find fulfillment and purpose. But I don't think I've ever seen the buddies be wrong.
ETA: So the buddies could have all been wrong, all of these years. Yoko could have mellowed him and helped him find fulfillment and purpose. But I don't think I've ever seen the buddies be wrong.
Last edited by a moderator:
krista4
Footballguy
---INTERLUDE – The Fireman and Liverpool Sound Collage---
In the early 90s, Paul began a collaboration with Youth, the founder and bassist of Killing Joke, and who should change his name since he’s turning 60 this year. The collaboration led to three studio albums under the band/duo name “the Fireman” and another album entitled Liverpool Sound Collage that was put together by Paul, Youth, and Super Furry Animals.
Liverpool Sound Collage (2000) was created at the request of artist Peter Blake (he of the Sgt. Pepper’s cover fame), who wanted something connecting Liverpool to his art exhibit. It’s an album of five “songs,” much of which would fall into the category of sound collages and/or musique concrete. Think “Revolution 9” but in my opinion better realized, albeit even longer. A few of the pieces include snippets of conversations among the Beatles culled from recording sessions, which led to the Beatles actually receiving songwriting credit on those tracks. One track features Paul walking around Liverpool asking people what they think of the Beatles, a part that I found self-indulgent and irritating. All of these snippets are superimposed onto an electronic/trance base and supplemented with various sound effects as well as portions of Paul’s Liverpool Oratorio classical album. I won’t be including any tracks from this album on my list, but if you’re interested in this type of musical collage, it’s worth checking out. I did particularly enjoy unexpectedly and suddenly hearing George or John talking. If you have 17 minutes to spare, my favorite track is the contribution by Youth ridiculously titled “Real Gone Dub Made in Manifest in the Vortex of the Eternal Now,” which for some reason is the only one I can't currently find a link to, so here is "Plastic Beetle" instead. Fun fact: this album was nominated for “Best Alternative Album” at the 2001 Grammys but lost to Radiohead’s Kid A. Shout-out @KarmaPolice
The first album from the Fireman, Strawberries Oceans Ships Forest (1993), represented Paul’s initial dabbling in ambient/trance music, when he took some loops from Wings’s Back to the Egg and his solo record Off the Ground and asked Youth to remix them. Youth helped Paul break the songs down to their cores and used these deconstructed samples to create new works, with Paul basically jamming some new parts over the deconstructed bits to create the songs. I enjoy this record, but the songs all sound verrryyyyy similar. As it turned out, Youth was not aware that Paul intended to put together a whole album and thought that were going with the original plan of just one song. He’s said that if he’d known Paul was going to use all of them, he would have differentiated them more. I won’t have any songs from this record on my list, but if you like this stuff, my favorites from this album are “Arizona Light” and “4-4-4," though as mentioned they're all quite similar.
Paul has talked about how much he enjoyed this version of recording – fast recording and jamming he sometimes had done with the Beatles – so he continued the collaboration with a second album, entitled Rushes, in 1998, with the title coming from “the fireman rushes in” line of crowd favorite, “Penny Lane.’ I find this much more accessible than Strawberries and also more varied, with changes in texture instead of the strong unifying theme (or put more negatively, the repetition) of the first record. Again it features reworkings of some of Paul’s prior tracks, though this time unreleased tracks rather than songs from any of his albums, and with Paul jamming on drums and Youth on bass above the underlying tracks. None of these songs ultimately made my list, but if you have time on your hands, I particularly enjoy “Palo Verde” (11:56), the Indian feel of “Auraveda” (12:51), and the much shorter “Bison.” Fun fact: if you google the album cover for Rushes, you will find a pretty lady who is very naked and very NSFW. At a webcast following the release of the album, fans sent questions to Paul that were answered by said pretty lady (this time clothed) sitting on a couch beside Paul, who remained silent the entire time and was wearing a heavy disguise.
Finally we get to Electric Arguments, released in 2008 as the third album from the Fireman, and from which I will have several selections on my list, including the next song I post. This album, the title of which was a reference to the Allen Ginsberg poem “Kansas City to St. Louis,” was the first of the records actually to list Paul and Youth as being the band, though the anonymity on the prior releases hadn’t prevented everyone from figuring out who the recordings were from. This album also marked a significant departure in that vocals became a key element of the tracks, which is probably why this is by far my favorite record from the duo. Rather than a more pure trance sound, these song meld that feel onto vocals from Paul in a way that minimizes some of the sappiness that he can sometimes veer into. Again this was an album that Paul has extolled the fun he had in making, as he loved the improv nature of it. In this case, each song was written and recorded in one day, first with the instrumental tracks (Paul playing every instrument) and then adding lyrics and melodies were ad-libbed by Paul on the spot. Sometimes you can tell that was the case, and sometimes his lyrics are shockingly terrific given the circumstances. Fun fact: the album cover art is by Paul himself (and I think the cover fits the music especially well).
I haven’t thought about how I would rank Paul’s post-Beatles albums, which is probably shocking and now I’m going to obsess over doing, but to be perfectly clear, while it might not quite be Band on the Run or Flaming Pie-level for me, I love this record and consider it possibly Paul's biggest "hidden gem."
In the early 90s, Paul began a collaboration with Youth, the founder and bassist of Killing Joke, and who should change his name since he’s turning 60 this year. The collaboration led to three studio albums under the band/duo name “the Fireman” and another album entitled Liverpool Sound Collage that was put together by Paul, Youth, and Super Furry Animals.
Liverpool Sound Collage (2000) was created at the request of artist Peter Blake (he of the Sgt. Pepper’s cover fame), who wanted something connecting Liverpool to his art exhibit. It’s an album of five “songs,” much of which would fall into the category of sound collages and/or musique concrete. Think “Revolution 9” but in my opinion better realized, albeit even longer. A few of the pieces include snippets of conversations among the Beatles culled from recording sessions, which led to the Beatles actually receiving songwriting credit on those tracks. One track features Paul walking around Liverpool asking people what they think of the Beatles, a part that I found self-indulgent and irritating. All of these snippets are superimposed onto an electronic/trance base and supplemented with various sound effects as well as portions of Paul’s Liverpool Oratorio classical album. I won’t be including any tracks from this album on my list, but if you’re interested in this type of musical collage, it’s worth checking out. I did particularly enjoy unexpectedly and suddenly hearing George or John talking. If you have 17 minutes to spare, my favorite track is the contribution by Youth ridiculously titled “Real Gone Dub Made in Manifest in the Vortex of the Eternal Now,” which for some reason is the only one I can't currently find a link to, so here is "Plastic Beetle" instead. Fun fact: this album was nominated for “Best Alternative Album” at the 2001 Grammys but lost to Radiohead’s Kid A. Shout-out @KarmaPolice
The first album from the Fireman, Strawberries Oceans Ships Forest (1993), represented Paul’s initial dabbling in ambient/trance music, when he took some loops from Wings’s Back to the Egg and his solo record Off the Ground and asked Youth to remix them. Youth helped Paul break the songs down to their cores and used these deconstructed samples to create new works, with Paul basically jamming some new parts over the deconstructed bits to create the songs. I enjoy this record, but the songs all sound verrryyyyy similar. As it turned out, Youth was not aware that Paul intended to put together a whole album and thought that were going with the original plan of just one song. He’s said that if he’d known Paul was going to use all of them, he would have differentiated them more. I won’t have any songs from this record on my list, but if you like this stuff, my favorites from this album are “Arizona Light” and “4-4-4," though as mentioned they're all quite similar.
Paul has talked about how much he enjoyed this version of recording – fast recording and jamming he sometimes had done with the Beatles – so he continued the collaboration with a second album, entitled Rushes, in 1998, with the title coming from “the fireman rushes in” line of crowd favorite, “Penny Lane.’ I find this much more accessible than Strawberries and also more varied, with changes in texture instead of the strong unifying theme (or put more negatively, the repetition) of the first record. Again it features reworkings of some of Paul’s prior tracks, though this time unreleased tracks rather than songs from any of his albums, and with Paul jamming on drums and Youth on bass above the underlying tracks. None of these songs ultimately made my list, but if you have time on your hands, I particularly enjoy “Palo Verde” (11:56), the Indian feel of “Auraveda” (12:51), and the much shorter “Bison.” Fun fact: if you google the album cover for Rushes, you will find a pretty lady who is very naked and very NSFW. At a webcast following the release of the album, fans sent questions to Paul that were answered by said pretty lady (this time clothed) sitting on a couch beside Paul, who remained silent the entire time and was wearing a heavy disguise.
Finally we get to Electric Arguments, released in 2008 as the third album from the Fireman, and from which I will have several selections on my list, including the next song I post. This album, the title of which was a reference to the Allen Ginsberg poem “Kansas City to St. Louis,” was the first of the records actually to list Paul and Youth as being the band, though the anonymity on the prior releases hadn’t prevented everyone from figuring out who the recordings were from. This album also marked a significant departure in that vocals became a key element of the tracks, which is probably why this is by far my favorite record from the duo. Rather than a more pure trance sound, these song meld that feel onto vocals from Paul in a way that minimizes some of the sappiness that he can sometimes veer into. Again this was an album that Paul has extolled the fun he had in making, as he loved the improv nature of it. In this case, each song was written and recorded in one day, first with the instrumental tracks (Paul playing every instrument) and then adding lyrics and melodies were ad-libbed by Paul on the spot. Sometimes you can tell that was the case, and sometimes his lyrics are shockingly terrific given the circumstances. Fun fact: the album cover art is by Paul himself (and I think the cover fits the music especially well).
I haven’t thought about how I would rank Paul’s post-Beatles albums, which is probably shocking and now I’m going to obsess over doing, but to be perfectly clear, while it might not quite be Band on the Run or Flaming Pie-level for me, I love this record and consider it possibly Paul's biggest "hidden gem."
Last edited by a moderator:
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
krista4
Footballguy
simey
Footballguy
I think Yoko did make him happy and played a part in his quest for fulfillment and purpose. krista mentioned a more mellow John regarding Double Fantasy, and I agree with her, and he seemed happy and content. Perhaps he found the key to happiness being a husband and dad, and realized family was more important to him than fame. He just had to let it go...
simey
Footballguy
4s.
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
Exactly!I don't remember what @simey's view of 4s was, but mine is negative.
Which reminds me K4...
Why the #### you put 4 in yer handle?
You live dangerously!
However, I do like 4-4-4.
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
Exactly!I don't remember what @simey's view of 4s was, but mine is negative.
Which reminds me K4...
Why the #### you put 4 in yer handle?
You live dangerously!
However, I do like 4-4-4.
krista4
Footballguy
I don't think the buddies could have told John anything. Anyone with a bad word to say about Yoko was dismissed as just being jealous. Not that I know if she would have been good for him in the long run, but I always had a fondness for May Pang, because during his time with her on break from Yoko, he re-established a good relationship with Julian (which ended when Yoko came back in the picture).
facook
Footballguy
simey
Footballguy
Julian got the short end of the stick with his dad. I remember him saying a long time ago that his dad was hypocrite, because he could talk about peace and love to the world, but he couldn't show it to his wife (Cynthia) and son (Julian). That's sad.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
In Liverpool is OK. The lyrics just offer platitudes and not insights, though.
I like the music of Anthem better but those lyrics are even less interesting.
facook
Footballguy
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
Yeah.
I remember this too.
I think it was part of his part-time Messiah delusion.
Simply, the world over-rode normal real life for him, quite often.
krista4
Footballguy
May Pang was a personal assistant for John and Yoko. The two of them had been having issues, including that he was restless and wanted to see other women, so Yoko facilitated it by suggesting that he start seeing Pang. John and Yoko separated and he had a relationship with Pang that lasted for approximately the 18-month period that he called his "Lost Weekend," which I talked about either here or in another thread? It's when he was palling around with Harry Nilsson in particular and doing a ton of drugs and abusing booze like mad. So I'm not totally sold on Pang since she was part of that time period, which was a disaster in a lot of ways. On the other hand, he made some great music during their relationship, including the stuff on Mind Games and Walls and Bridges. That voice saying "John" on "No. 9 Dream" is Pang, not Yoko, by the way.
Anyway, I've read (I believe from Julian himself) that she also encouraged him to re-establish his relationship with Julian, and he did, but once he was back with Yoko she didn't want him to continue to pursue that. It was also during the Lost Weekend that John jammed with Paul on the Toot and a Snore in '74 record, so I appreciate her for being part of that even if she wasn't the one who pushed it (I don't know if she was but suspect she could have been). I have this possibly wrong-headed view that she was pressing John to reconcile his important relationships, while Yoko always seemed to want to cut him off from everyone.
Last edited by a moderator:
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
Another vote for the MJ version. When Paul's falsetto started, I thought "is that Linda singing?" until I remembered the discussion about falsetto.
krista4
Footballguy
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
Of the Youth stuff, I'm only making the time for 4-4-4 since y'all are so freaked out about numerology.
Yeah, repetitive is the word I'd use. I'm too sober to enjoy this properly.
Yeah, repetitive is the word I'd use. I'm too sober to enjoy this properly.
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
I want to add:
I've read similar things about Gahndi as well.
So, I don't mean to down play the social impact that John did have.
He lived a life that very few could ever imagine.
The attention he got, plus the drugs...it's almost unavoidable.
Thus, I'm only observing; not judging.
krista4
Footballguy
Yeah, that's not the album I'd dip into among them. It does seem like something that would be enhanced by...enhancements.
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
krista4
Footballguy
275. The Fireman - Travelling Light (Electric Arguments, 2008) Spotify YouTube
(Paul #134)
Let's go ahead and give y'all one I do like better to try out. Reminder, though, that this is my lowest-ranked of the songs I'm sharing from this album. In case you didn't make it through all the paragraphs above, let me repeat my summation of Electric Arguments: "I haven’t thought about how I would rank Paul’s post-Beatles albums, which is probably shocking and now I’m going to obsess over doing, but to be perfectly clear, while it might not quite be Band on the Run or Flaming Pie-level for me, I love this record." If you don't like this one, stick with it as they get different and better from here. And if you do like this, stick with it as they get different and better from here.
As I mentioned in my intro to these records, Paul went into the studio with Youth to make one song per day, without much thought as to where a song would go melodically and with no lyrics composed. For this one, he had gone in and picked up some old sea shanty music that Youth had on CD, and he just riffed the song entirely off of that. "Haunting" is a word that's overused in music, but I think it fits Paul's beginning vocal here, and most of the song has a dark and ominous quality that I find captivating and even oddly soothing. I'm not even sure I'd recognize that early low-register part as being Paul if I didn't know. Falsetto haters be warned that he then transitions to a much higher register for a bit, before a significant change in tempo (waltz time!) and feel occurs ~3:35, accompanied by a finally-recognizable Paul vocal.
Something I haven't mentioned a lot yet in this thread are lyrics, and particularly given they were improvised, I think these are terrific, especially in their use of color:
I ride on the white wind
High over the sand
I follow the bluebird
I follow the wise
I glide on the green leaf
Not asking for more
I follow the white wind
I glide on the green leaf
I swim in the blue sea
I walk on the sand
I fly through the blue sky
To wherever you land
I ride on the white wind
To a far away shore
I follow the bluebird
To wherever she lands
I'll be traveling tonight
Oh across the sea
Where she waits, she waits for me
Across the broken sea
From the sea
From the sea
From across the endless sea
I'll be traveling tonight
&
(Paul #134)
Let's go ahead and give y'all one I do like better to try out. Reminder, though, that this is my lowest-ranked of the songs I'm sharing from this album. In case you didn't make it through all the paragraphs above, let me repeat my summation of Electric Arguments: "I haven’t thought about how I would rank Paul’s post-Beatles albums, which is probably shocking and now I’m going to obsess over doing, but to be perfectly clear, while it might not quite be Band on the Run or Flaming Pie-level for me, I love this record." If you don't like this one, stick with it as they get different and better from here. And if you do like this, stick with it as they get different and better from here.
As I mentioned in my intro to these records, Paul went into the studio with Youth to make one song per day, without much thought as to where a song would go melodically and with no lyrics composed. For this one, he had gone in and picked up some old sea shanty music that Youth had on CD, and he just riffed the song entirely off of that. "Haunting" is a word that's overused in music, but I think it fits Paul's beginning vocal here, and most of the song has a dark and ominous quality that I find captivating and even oddly soothing. I'm not even sure I'd recognize that early low-register part as being Paul if I didn't know. Falsetto haters be warned that he then transitions to a much higher register for a bit, before a significant change in tempo (waltz time!) and feel occurs ~3:35, accompanied by a finally-recognizable Paul vocal.
Something I haven't mentioned a lot yet in this thread are lyrics, and particularly given they were improvised, I think these are terrific, especially in their use of color:
I ride on the white wind
High over the sand
I follow the bluebird
I follow the wise
I glide on the green leaf
Not asking for more
I follow the white wind
I glide on the green leaf
I swim in the blue sea
I walk on the sand
I fly through the blue sky
To wherever you land
I ride on the white wind
To a far away shore
I follow the bluebird
To wherever she lands
I'll be traveling tonight
Oh across the sea
Where she waits, she waits for me
Across the broken sea
From the sea
From the sea
From across the endless sea
I'll be traveling tonight
&
Last edited by a moderator:
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
I like this; but to be fair, Red is SERIOUSLY underrepresented!
Edit: by "firemen" even...
Last edited by a moderator:
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
krista4
Footballguy
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
caustic
Footballguy
I agree, and it has me torn: would this be a great song to get stoned to, or would it induce horrible paranoia? Seems like a close call, may have to try it and report back.
krista4
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I’m not sure why but I had no idea about the project until @Eephus drafted a song from them in one of our recent drafts. I need to give these records a listen - maybe today on the beach.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
This is good, but Paul's vocal early on is a little hoarse for my liking. The slide guitar/piano interplay in the second half is fantastic.
Morton Muffley
Footballguy
Nice write-up, but neither apologies nor caveats needed for me: I like atmospheric songs more than most and Paul doesn't have too many of them in his catalog, so this ranks higher for me. It's one of three songs from EA on my Paul 100 and clocks in at #83 for me. Not one I reach for often, but one that I always enjoy when I am in the mood. Looking forward to @caustic experiment to determine if "mood enhancers" would move it up or down my list.
Morton Muffley
Footballguy
Wait a second...do I have this right: a Neil Young fan is complaining about the singing voice of a 70 year old man!
FTR, the rest I agree with and more importantly: yes, I will dropping into this thread frequently to defend Paul from any and all detractions* regardless of how minor or how well-enveloped in praise.
*Apparently "detractions" isn't a word, well it is NOW
Similar threads
