Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (1 Viewer)

[Anarchy99]

Let's see some predictions.. What's their record this year?

10-7

7-10

You didn't ask, but the 2021 team ranked 6th in points scored, 2nd in points allowed, 15th in yards, and 4th in yards allowed. Comparing this team to that one . . .

JJSS, Parker, Bourne, Thornton, Douglas, Boutte >>> Meyers, Bourne, Agholor, Harry, Olszewski, Wilkerson
RS + EE = DH + rookie RS
Henry + Gesicki >> Henry and Smith
Brown, Strange, Andrews, Onwenu, TBA << Wynn, Karas, Andrews, Mason, Brown

Gonzalez, Jones, Jones, Jones, Bryant, Wade = Jackson, Mills, Jon Jones, Bryant, Joejuan Williams, Ross
Duggar, Phillips, Peppers, Mills = McCourty, Phillips, Dugger, Davis
Godchaux, Barmore, Guy, Ekuale, Wise, Roberts, White > Godchaux, Wise, Guy, Ekuale, Davis, Barmore
Judon, Uche, Jennings, Bentley, Mapu, Tavai > Judon, Bentley, Hightower, Winovich, Van Noy, Uche, Collins

The only position group that was better then than now was OL, and things are way distorted right now because the current OL has been riddled with injuries. They had to roster 11 offensive lineman to make accommodations for all the injuries. Brown-Strange-Andrews-Onwenu is still a solid starting point, and then they need one of Sow, Reiff, Anderson, Wheatley, or Lowe to fill the other tackle spot.

 

[rockaction]

8-9, and I think I'm being generous. Unless you beat the Jets twice, which is possible. Then I see 9-8 in your future.

 

[rockaction]

This team's defense better carry them all the way home. They've got to play KC, LA, LV, Den, Jets twice, Buffalo twice, Miami twice, PHI, NYG, WAS, DAL, and three others (Saints, Colts, Steelers). There's only two total slouches in that bunch, Las Vegas and Indianapolis, one of whom you guys managed to lose to last year, while you lost to the other the year before, IIRC.

 

[Lansdowne]

Karen Guregian has indicated NE plans to add both Zappe and Cunningham to the practice squad unless other teams sign them.

I’d be very surprised if either didn’t make it to the PS. Zappe is an NFL QB3 at best for most other teams and Cunningham is still too raw to be on anyone’s 53.

 

[Anarchy99]

This team's defense better carry them all the way home. They've got to play KC, LA, LV, Den, Jets twice, Buffalo twice, Miami twice, PHI, NYG, WAS, DAL, and three others (Saints, Colts, Steelers). There's only two total slouches in that bunch, Las Vegas and Indianapolis, one of whom you guys managed to lose to last year, while you lost to the other the year before, IIRC.

The rest of the division has to play the same teams (AFC West and NFC East). Except they don't have to play CIN, BAL, JAX like BUF or MIA. It's rare that all the teams that were good in Year X are all good again in Year Y. For example, TEN, DEN, GB, TB, LAR, and ARI were all thought to be good heading into last season and ended up out of contention. That's why they play the games.

 

[Boston]

This team's defense better carry them all the way home. They've got to play KC, LA, LV, Den, Jets twice, Buffalo twice, Miami twice, PHI, NYG, WAS, DAL, and three others (Saints, Colts, Steelers). There's only two total slouches in that bunch, Las Vegas and Indianapolis, one of whom you guys managed to lose to last year, while you lost to the other the year before, IIRC.

The schedule is very tough this year...not catching many breaks against QBs this year and the D while solid needs to prove it can shutdown legit QBs because if they can't they are in no position to get into shootouts...a couple of injuries to the wrong players and this has the potential to be the worst season they will have since BB's first year...there is very little high-end talent on this roster and the depth at some positions is paper thin.

 

[SoBeDad]

The 2021 Patriot defense started out great but didn't they fade a little at the end versus Miami and the Bills twice? They also faced Baker, Trevor as a rookie, the Jets twice, David Mills?

 

[Da Franchise]

Karen Guregian has indicated NE plans to add both Zappe and Cunningham to the practice squad unless other teams sign them.

I’d be very surprised if either didn’t make it to the PS. Zappe is an NFL QB3 at best for most other teams and Cunningham is still too raw to be on anyone’s 53.

Yeah but, so is Mac Jones.

I thought Zappe was decent. Certainly not a “real” starting QB but there’s a lot of terrible QBs with roster spots in the league. He’s a QB2 and I’m not so sure he’s not better than Mac.

Logic says Arizona should be calling Zappe on the double. This cut should test their tank.

As for the record, I really think 5-12 is in play. Where are the wins? The offense absolutely blows.

 

[Boston]

There appears to be a good news/bad news with Zappe...the good news is there is confidence he will not be claimed...the bad news is it is because he was so bad this preseason no one wants him.

 

[fuzzy_dunlop]

Karen Guregian has indicated NE plans to add both Zappe and Cunningham to the practice squad unless other teams sign them.

I’d be very surprised if either didn’t make it to the PS. Zappe is an NFL QB3 at best for most other teams and Cunningham is still too raw to be on anyone’s 53.

Yeah but, so is Mac Jones.

I thought Zappe was decent. Certainly not a “real” starting QB but there’s a lot of terrible QBs with roster spots in the league. He’s a QB2 and I’m not so sure he’s not better than Mac.

Logic says Arizona should be calling Zappe on the double. This cut should test their tank.

As for the record, I really think 5-12 is in play. Where are the wins? The offense absolutely blows.

Zappe was terrible this summer

 

[kyoun1e]

Karen Guregian has indicated NE plans to add both Zappe and Cunningham to the practice squad unless other teams sign them.

I’d be very surprised if either didn’t make it to the PS. Zappe is an NFL QB3 at best for most other teams and Cunningham is still too raw to be on anyone’s 53.

Yeah but, so is Mac Jones.

I thought Zappe was decent. Certainly not a “real” starting QB but there’s a lot of terrible QBs with roster spots in the league. He’s a QB2 and I’m not so sure he’s not better than Mac.

Logic says Arizona should be calling Zappe on the double. This cut should test their tank.

As for the record, I really think 5-12 is in play. Where are the wins? The offense absolutely blows.

Zappe was terrible this summer

He was.

But the line is a mess.

 

[PIK95]

Let's see some predictions.. What's their record this year?

5-12

 

[RenegadeRoy]

6-11 I think they can get Ws against the Saints, 'Manders, Colts, Jets, Bills OR Phins (maybe even 2x Jets), and Broncos.

 

[PIK95]

6-11 I think they can get Ws against the Saints, 'Manders, Colts, Jets, Bills OR Phins (maybe even 2x Jets), and Broncos.

I think the Jets smash them twice fwiw.

 

[RenegadeRoy]

6-11 I think they can get Ws against the Saints, 'Manders, Colts, Jets, Bills OR Phins (maybe even 2x Jets), and Broncos.

I think the Jets smash them twice fwiw.

I have a gut feeling the Jets are going to have the worst record in the AFC East. Don't ask to see my work lol.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

8-9, and I think I'm being generous. Unless you beat the Jets twice, which is possible. Then I see 9-8 in your future.

and yet you laughed at Anarchy's 10-7 prediction....because its so far away from 9-8.

11-6

 

[rockaction]

and yet you laughed at Anarchy's 10-7 prediction....because its so far away from 9-8.

The only way is if you beat one of the AFC East teams twice, and I don't think that's going to happen. The only reason I put that there is if Rodgers is hurt.

So again...your lousy team gets a big fat old over Anarchy's prediction.

 

[Lansdowne]

Karen Guregian has indicated NE plans to add both Zappe and Cunningham to the practice squad unless other teams sign them.

I’d be very surprised if either didn’t make it to the PS. Zappe is an NFL QB3 at best for most other teams and Cunningham is still too raw to be on anyone’s 53.

Yeah but, so is Mac Jones.

I thought Zappe was decent. Certainly not a “real” starting QB but there’s a lot of terrible QBs with roster spots in the league. He’s a QB2 and I’m not so sure he’s not better than Mac.

Logic says Arizona should be calling Zappe on the double. This cut should test their tank.

As for the record, I really think 5-12 is in play. Where are the wins? The offense absolutely blows.

Respectfully disagree. There’s nothing Zappe does better than Mac, otherwise he’d at least have made the 53. Mac was the best offensive rookie in 2021 not named Chase. Zappe got his chance against the Bears and faceplanted, and didn’t play a regular season snap ever since. He’s not good. Mac has at least shown the ability to be good over the course of a season. He’s a league average NFL starting QB. The Zappe hype was out of control and has finally corrected itself.

 

[Donnybrook]

I want more reckless speculation on who the Patriots will add as a backup. Maybe a list with some odds etc.

 

[rockaction]

He’s a league average NFL starting QB.

He's not league average yet. Not even close, really.

If you haven't hit the heights of Derek Carr, you're not league average.

AFC East

Rodgers
Allen
Tua

all better than Mac

NFC North

Burrow
Lamar
Watson

all better than Mac

Pickett hasn't shown it yet.

AFC West

Mahomes
Herbert
Jimmy G
Wilson

safe to say that all are better or have been better than Mac's best year

AFC South

T Lawrence
R Tannehill

despite Tannehill's disrespect, he's better than Mac

CJ Stroud - rookie, unproven
Anothny Richardson - rookie, unproven

NFC East

Dak Prescott
Daniel Jones
Jalen Hurts

All better

Sam Howell is unproven

NFC North

Cousins
Goff

Love is unproven
Fields brings something different than Mac, though as a passer, Mac has to be considered better than Fields

NFC West

Matt Stafford
Geno Smith
Kyler Murray

All better than Mac

Purdy is unproven

NFC South

Derek Carr
Bryce Young is unproven
Baker Mayfield is not so good
Desmond Ridder is not so good

Mac's better than Ridder and Mayfield, I'd guess, Young we don't know.

So there's a whole bunch of unprovens, terribleness, and Mac. There's a ways to go for Mac before he can be considered a league-average quarterback. There's seven unprovens and Mayfield, Fields, and Ridder who he is likely better than so far. That's not great company to be hanging with.

 

[JoeKappBudGrant]

I want more reckless speculation on who the Patriots will add as a backup. Maybe a list with some odds etc.

1. The crypto market tanks, Tom Brady comes out of retirement so he can pay his child support. 2. Bill trades for the Jet backup QB, then immediately hires Tom Hanks to be the OC based on his close relationship with Wilson. 3. Kraft trades 2 first round picks to Cleveland for Deshaun Watson. He decided it was the right time to massage the trade market.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

What in the wide world of sports is going on.

 

[King of the Jungle]

Tyquan Thornton listed as a starter still, maybe they do not intend to feature Bourne more. Wish they would just trade him away if that was the case. He is not a world beater but IMO he is their best pass catching weapon.

 

[Anarchy99]

Tyquan Thornton listed as a starter still, maybe they do not intend to feature Bourne more. Wish they would just trade him away if that was the case. He is not a world beater but IMO he is their best pass catching weapon.

Listed as a starter by whom? He's not listed as a starter on the Patriots website. It's rumored he will be added to IR to start the season.

 

[Boston]

Tyquan Thornton listed as a starter still, maybe they do not intend to feature Bourne more. Wish they would just trade him away if that was the case. He is not a world beater but IMO he is their best pass catching weapon.

As Anarchy stated that is not the word locally...Thornton probably going on IR and on thin ice overall...as for Bourne he should get plenty of work...Juju's knee is iffy, Parker is nothing special and while Douglas and Boutte are exciting they are still rookies...he should be pretty involved almost by default.

 

[King of the Jungle]

Tyquan Thornton listed as a starter still, maybe they do not intend to feature Bourne more. Wish they would just trade him away if that was the case. He is not a world beater but IMO he is their best pass catching weapon.

Listed as a starter by whom? He's not listed as a starter on the Patriots website. It's rumored he will be added to IR to start the season.

You are correct, I was looking on a non-official site. Hopefully he is a big part of the plan, I think he could have his first 1000 yard season this year.

 

[Bossman]

Let's see some predictions.. What's their record this year?

5-11-1

"and it's all Mac Jones fault ... regressed!"
... as he is instantly pounced on the moment he takes the snap from center.

 

[Anarchy99]

The Pats added Kevin Harris and Ty Montgomery to the practice squad. No news on JJ Taylor as of yet.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

The Pats added Kevin Harris and Ty Montgomery to the practice squad. No news on JJ Taylor as of yet.

I didn't think Montgomery would clear waivers.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

The Great Oline Debate of 2023 spilled over into the Zappe thread, and I just want to canonize a couple gems from Anarchy herein....

The only major issue they have is their OL is banged up. Yesterday, they had all 11 guys on the OL available and all at practice for the first time all training camp. Brown-Strange-Andrews-Onwenu is the core of the OL that started last year. They have to see if one of Anderson, Reiff, Low, Reiff, or Wheatley can be their other tackle, whether to use a rotation, or if it makes more sense to kick Onwenu back out to tackle. There is also still time to acquire someone else as well.

We're never going to see eye to eye, but "the scrambling to fill holes" is essentially ONE SPOT. Right tackle. Brown-Strange-Andrews-Onwenu are 4/5 of the offensive line, returning from last year, which was a solid core. They have two weeks to figure out whether they want to move Onwenu to tackle again or figure out a rotation of Anderson, Reiff, Sow, Lowe, and Wheatley.

Should they have done more long-term to address both tackle spots? Yup. They took a CB instead of the 4th OT in the first round. There were 7 tackles that went in the first 65 picks of the draft. They apparently didn't think the guys 8+ deep in the draft were worth it. There also were very few FA OT available. The Top 3 free agents signed for $64M, $80M, and $87M. The guys rated just after that were Isaiah Wynn, Jermaine Elumenor, and Cameron Fleming . . . all NE cast offs. Would you want any of those guys back? Should they have taken a tackle in the preceding draft? Probably . . . but they took a guard instead. They have a treasure chest of money to spend next year and could certainly afford to sign an OT and draft one.

As for depth at other positions (QB, RB, TE), the guys they released yesterday should all end up on the practice squad. I agree, none of those guys are proven or are world beaters, but how many teams have great options at backup QB, third RB, or third TE?

Keep slinging the facts, brother.

 

[Boston]

The Pats added Kevin Harris and Ty Montgomery to the practice squad. No news on JJ Taylor as of yet.

I didn't think Montgomery would clear waivers.

There is not a big demand for often injured 30-year RBs with 1,178 rushing yards, 142 receptions and 11 TDs over their 8-year career.

 

[Anarchy99]

The Great Oline Debate of 2023 spilled over into the Zappe thread, and I just want to canonize a couple gems from Anarchy herein....

The only major issue they have is their OL is banged up. Yesterday, they had all 11 guys on the OL available and all at practice for the first time all training camp. Brown-Strange-Andrews-Onwenu is the core of the OL that started last year. They have to see if one of Anderson, Reiff, Low, Reiff, or Wheatley can be their other tackle, whether to use a rotation, or if it makes more sense to kick Onwenu back out to tackle. There is also still time to acquire someone else as well.

We're never going to see eye to eye, but "the scrambling to fill holes" is essentially ONE SPOT. Right tackle. Brown-Strange-Andrews-Onwenu are 4/5 of the offensive line, returning from last year, which was a solid core. They have two weeks to figure out whether they want to move Onwenu to tackle again or figure out a rotation of Anderson, Reiff, Sow, Lowe, and Wheatley.

Should they have done more long-term to address both tackle spots? Yup. They took a CB instead of the 4th OT in the first round. There were 7 tackles that went in the first 65 picks of the draft. They apparently didn't think the guys 8+ deep in the draft were worth it. There also were very few FA OT available. The Top 3 free agents signed for $64M, $80M, and $87M. The guys rated just after that were Isaiah Wynn, Jermaine Elumenor, and Cameron Fleming . . . all NE cast offs. Would you want any of those guys back? Should they have taken a tackle in the preceding draft? Probably . . . but they took a guard instead. They have a treasure chest of money to spend next year and could certainly afford to sign an OT and draft one.

As for depth at other positions (QB, RB, TE), the guys they released yesterday should all end up on the practice squad. I agree, none of those guys are proven or are world beaters, but how many teams have great options at backup QB, third RB, or third TE?

Keep slinging the facts, brother.

Could you go and gather all my posts from all these separate threads? That would be helpful and save me the trouble of searching for them and having to re-post information all the time. That way they could all be consolidates and contained all in one spot so no one will ever have to search for them. Thanks in advance.

 

[Boston]

Tyquan Over-drafted Thornton to the IR.

 

[Anarchy99]

I get it. Fans are passionate about their team, and NE fans are used to winning Super Bowls. But some of the issues being raised are not as impactful as they are made out to be. For example, the league average for all 32 franchises for TE3s last year was 7.5 catches, 80 yards, and 0.7 TD. The Pats don't currently have (or have a plan for) a third tight end on the main roster. On the scale of what impacts teams, third TE doesn't move the needle all that much.

As far as having a sound QB2, last season, backup QBs league wide combined to go 49-70-1 (.413 winning percentage) . . . and that includes SFO who went 12-3 when their initial starter went down (Trey Lance). The other 31 teams went 37-67-1 (.357) with their backups. Most teams don't have a great plan at backup QB, and the huge majority of the time, backup QBs don't win very much. That's not a NE problem, that's a league wide problem.

That being said, they added Matt Sokol and Pharaoh Brown to the practice squad. They should probably keep looking for someone else. TE is definitely a position they need to address past this season. They should probably look for another backup QB as well, but if they got to the point where they needed a backup to start multiple games, they would likely be DOA in those games no matter who that player was.

 

[Boston]

I get it. Fans are passionate about their team, and NE fans are used to winning Super Bowls. But some of the issues being raised are not as impactful as they are made out to be. For example, the league average for all 32 franchises for TE3s last year was 7.5 catches, 80 yards, and 0.7 TD. The Pats don't currently have (or have a plan for) a third tight end on the main roster. On the scale of what impacts teams, third TE doesn't move the needle all that much.

As far as having a sound QB2, last season, backup QBs league wide combined to go 49-70-1 (.413 winning percentage) . . . and that includes SFO who went 12-3 when their initial starter went down (Trey Lance). The other 31 teams went 37-67-1 (.357) with their backups. Most teams don't have a great plan at backup QB, and the huge majority of the time, backup QBs don't win very much. That's not a NE problem, that's a league wide problem.

That being said, they added Matt Sokol and Pharaoh Brown to the practice squad. They should probably keep looking for someone else. TE is definitely a position they need to address past this season. They should probably look for another backup QB as well, but if they got to the point where they needed a backup to start multiple games, they would likely be DOA in those games no matter who that player was.

Amazing how much we disagree...BOB has been using a lot of two TE sets and right now they only have two viable TEs...does that make sense...RT is going to be a weakness...it is very apparent...Trent Brown could be anything from very good to not trying...with this tackle situation they may need TE help to keep a QB like Mac who is not mobile upright...Gesicki is not a good blocker and Henry is solid but not awesome...this has a chance to dramatically affect the offense...how is that not obvious.

 

[Lansdowne]

I get it. Fans are passionate about their team, and NE fans are used to winning Super Bowls. But some of the issues being raised are not as impactful as they are made out to be. For example, the league average for all 32 franchises for TE3s last year was 7.5 catches, 80 yards, and 0.7 TD. The Pats don't currently have (or have a plan for) a third tight end on the main roster. On the scale of what impacts teams, third TE doesn't move the needle all that much.

As far as having a sound QB2, last season, backup QBs league wide combined to go 49-70-1 (.413 winning percentage) . . . and that includes SFO who went 12-3 when their initial starter went down (Trey Lance). The other 31 teams went 37-67-1 (.357) with their backups. Most teams don't have a great plan at backup QB, and the huge majority of the time, backup QBs don't win very much. That's not a NE problem, that's a league wide problem.

That being said, they added Matt Sokol and Pharaoh Brown to the practice squad. They should probably keep looking for someone else. TE is definitely a position they need to address past this season. They should probably look for another backup QB as well, but if they got to the point where they needed a backup to start multiple games, they would likely be DOA in those games no matter who that player was.

A few things:

Belichick is a big proponent of the 12 formation, and signed Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith so he could run 2-TE formations a lot. Smith couldn’t stay on the field, so he’s been traded for Gesicki, who is now dealing with his own injury. If you want to have a running game and don’t have a FB on the roster, you’re going to need to have some TE’s lying around. One healthy TE on the roster isn’t going to cut it. Football is a war of attrition and you need all the depth you can get. A guy who can block is all you need out of your TE3, anything else is gravy. Especially with the big gaping hole at RT, you better have a TE who can block.

Also it needs to be said but wins aren’t a QB stat. Not exactly a breakthrough that backup QBs find less success than starters. But every team needs one just in case anyway. Someone has to throw the football, and you can only hope it’s someone capable of doing it at an NFL level. If Mac Jones gets hurt again, who is going out there to try to salvage the game? You can’t wave off Belichick’s mishandling of the QB room merely because most backup QBs aren’t that good. That’s not how it works.

 

[fuzzy_dunlop]

I'm with Anarchy. Relax and enjoy the season. This team is better than you think it is.

 

[Lansdowne]

I'm with Anarchy. Relax and enjoy the season. This team is better than you think it is.

I hope you’re right, I really do. I just can’t help but remember how much I brushed off all the reports of the offensive coaching being a mess during training camp and preseason last year. “I’m sure they’ll figure it out”, I thought to myself. Well…the signs were all there, I just chose to ignore them until they were impossible to. And what do you know, we’ve got more signs that maybe this team isn’t quite ready for the start of the season, but we’ll find out soon enough. We can’t say we weren’t warned, the local beats have been all over it. Even Tom Curran seems to have backed off of his initial optimistic prediction of a 10-12 win season.

 

[Anarchy99]

I get it. Fans are passionate about their team, and NE fans are used to winning Super Bowls. But some of the issues being raised are not as impactful as they are made out to be. For example, the league average for all 32 franchises for TE3s last year was 7.5 catches, 80 yards, and 0.7 TD. The Pats don't currently have (or have a plan for) a third tight end on the main roster. On the scale of what impacts teams, third TE doesn't move the needle all that much.

As far as having a sound QB2, last season, backup QBs league wide combined to go 49-70-1 (.413 winning percentage) . . . and that includes SFO who went 12-3 when their initial starter went down (Trey Lance). The other 31 teams went 37-67-1 (.357) with their backups. Most teams don't have a great plan at backup QB, and the huge majority of the time, backup QBs don't win very much. That's not a NE problem, that's a league wide problem.

That being said, they added Matt Sokol and Pharaoh Brown to the practice squad. They should probably keep looking for someone else. TE is definitely a position they need to address past this season. They should probably look for another backup QB as well, but if they got to the point where they needed a backup to start multiple games, they would likely be DOA in those games no matter who that player was.

A few things:

Belichick is a big proponent of the 12 formation, and signed Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith so he could run 2-TE formations a lot. Smith couldn’t stay on the field, so he’s been traded for Gesicki, who is now dealing with his own injury. If you want to have a running game and don’t have a FB on the roster, you’re going to need to have some TE’s lying around. One healthy TE on the roster isn’t going to cut it. Football is a war of attrition and you need all the depth you can get. A guy who can block is all you need out of your TE3, anything else is gravy. Especially with the big gaping hole at RT, you better have a TE who can block.

Also it needs to be said but wins aren’t a QB stat. Not exactly a breakthrough that backup QBs find less success than starters. But every team needs one just in case anyway. Someone has to throw the football, and you can only hope it’s someone capable of doing it at an NFL level. If Mac Jones gets hurt again, who is going out there to try to salvage the game? You can’t wave off Belichick’s mishandling of the QB room merely because most backup QBs aren’t that good. That’s not how it works.

NE was only one of only 5 teams that had a winning record last year when the starter missed time (2-1). When Brady got hurt, Cassel went 105. When Brady was suspended, Jimmy G / Brissett went 3-1. Sounds like NE has done pretty well when the start was out. (The only time a backup completely bombed was Hoyer, who went 0-1 in 2020 when Cam had COVID). Zappe did fine as a fill in last year, and many people felt he should have gotten a chance to compete for the starting job. So which is it? Is he worthy of starter consideration or is he a total bum? It can't be both.

As far as O'Brien goes, here's how the TEs have done reception wise in his stops in NE and HOU:

2007: Watson 36, KBrady 9, Thomas 1
2008: Watson 22, Thomas 9, DeVree 0
2009: Watson 41, Baker 19, Matthews 0
2010: Hernandez 45, Gronk 42, Crumpler 6
2011: Gronk 90, Hernandez 79, No Third TE
2014: Graham 18, Griffin 10, Fiedorowicz 4
2015: Griffin 20, Fiedorowicz 17, Graham 4
2016: Fiedorowicz 54, Griffin 50, Anderson 11
2017: Anderson 25, Fiedorowicz 25, Griffin 13
2018: Griffin 24, Thomas 20, Akins 17
2019: Akins 36, Fells 34, Thomas 1
2020: Akins 37, Fells 21, Brown 14

The crown jewel in that was the 2011 season, which seems completely irrelevant at this point, as the Pats don't have Brady, Gronk, or Hernandez on the team. O'Brien seems to have utilized the offense based on the roster he was given. Most years, there wasn't a third TE involved as a receiver . . . maybe as a blocker. The Pats have Sokol and Brown on the practice squad id they need a body. As mentioned several times already, I am not sure NE will have the luxury of playing bully ball with 2 tight ends and grinding things out on the ground very often (especially with tight ends that aren't known for their blocking prowess).

As far as this year goes, one thing that has been overlooked is they practiced a lot of 2 TE sets in training camp . . . but they had many practices where they literally didn't have any of their WRs available. Of the skill positions, WR is where they have the most options (and devoted the most bodies to). Gesicki is more WR than TE, so it's basically Henry. I'm sure there will be times when Henry and Gesicki are on the field at the same time, but I expect more 3 WR configurations this year.

 

[Anarchy99]

I'm with Anarchy. Relax and enjoy the season. This team is better than you think it is.

I hope you’re right, I really do. I just can’t help but remember how much I brushed off all the reports of the offensive coaching being a mess during training camp and preseason last year. “I’m sure they’ll figure it out”, I thought to myself. Well…the signs were all there, I just chose to ignore them until they were impossible to. And what do you know, we’ve got more signs that maybe this team isn’t quite ready for the start of the season, but we’ll find out soon enough. We can’t say we weren’t warned, the local beats have been all over it. Even Tom Curran seems to have backed off of his initial optimistic prediction of a 10-12 win season.

Last year the reports on coaching and overall team malaise were all over the place. This year, the harmony, coaching, and unity at practice has been highlighted all the time, with the biggest concern the OL injuries (obviously justified). But the offense has looked much better in terms of drills and daily practice, Jones has looked much better across the board, and the players seem to have bought in a lot more.

As for Curran, he spent a half hour noting everything that was wrong and a concern with the Pats . . . and then gave his season prediction of 11 wins.

 

[Boston]

I get it. Fans are passionate about their team, and NE fans are used to winning Super Bowls. But some of the issues being raised are not as impactful as they are made out to be. For example, the league average for all 32 franchises for TE3s last year was 7.5 catches, 80 yards, and 0.7 TD. The Pats don't currently have (or have a plan for) a third tight end on the main roster. On the scale of what impacts teams, third TE doesn't move the needle all that much.

As far as having a sound QB2, last season, backup QBs league wide combined to go 49-70-1 (.413 winning percentage) . . . and that includes SFO who went 12-3 when their initial starter went down (Trey Lance). The other 31 teams went 37-67-1 (.357) with their backups. Most teams don't have a great plan at backup QB, and the huge majority of the time, backup QBs don't win very much. That's not a NE problem, that's a league wide problem.

That being said, they added Matt Sokol and Pharaoh Brown to the practice squad. They should probably keep looking for someone else. TE is definitely a position they need to address past this season. They should probably look for another backup QB as well, but if they got to the point where they needed a backup to start multiple games, they would likely be DOA in those games no matter who that player was.

A few things:

Belichick is a big proponent of the 12 formation, and signed Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith so he could run 2-TE formations a lot. Smith couldn’t stay on the field, so he’s been traded for Gesicki, who is now dealing with his own injury. If you want to have a running game and don’t have a FB on the roster, you’re going to need to have some TE’s lying around. One healthy TE on the roster isn’t going to cut it. Football is a war of attrition and you need all the depth you can get. A guy who can block is all you need out of your TE3, anything else is gravy. Especially with the big gaping hole at RT, you better have a TE who can block.

Also it needs to be said but wins aren’t a QB stat. Not exactly a breakthrough that backup QBs find less success than starters. But every team needs one just in case anyway. Someone has to throw the football, and you can only hope it’s someone capable of doing it at an NFL level. If Mac Jones gets hurt again, who is going out there to try to salvage the game? You can’t wave off Belichick’s mishandling of the QB room merely because most backup QBs aren’t that good. That’s not how it works.

Also...Mac is far from a definite...it would be a nice to have at least a prospect that you could get lucky with (in fairness it was Zappe going into the year)...maybe Cunningham is it but the way they used him doesn't appear that they have faith that he can be a legit QB in the NFL...it would be pretty funny if Payton turns to Stidham should Wilson falter.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

So how is the rookie kicker looking? I remember him booming them at Maryland.

 

[Boston]

So how is the rookie kicker looking? I remember him booming them at Maryland.

Good enough that they were able to deal their most reliable player the past two years...very big leg but oddly enough he did not attempt a FG in preseason...this is a very big move because if the Pats are gonna win games this year, they will be close games (they are not blowing anyone out with this offense) so this kid will need to be reliable from both long and short yardage so they must be very comfortable with him...and they better be since they have a bunch of holes and used a #4 on him.

 

[Anarchy99]

Zappe looked horrible in the preseason games . . . but he was playing with some guys that didn't even get consideration for the practice squad. He certainly had a tendency to hold on to the ball too long and got sacked and fumbled way too often, but he didn't get much chance to play with the 1's. He was a sacrificial lamb in games no one cared about winning. I don't think he'll ever be starter material, but playing with 10 other NFL players would certainly allow him to do a lot more. He's probably adequate as a short term fill in, but if he had to start half the season, that would likely be a problem.

As far as Cunningham goes, all the hype came from one drive against 3's and 4's and predominantly with him running the ball. He didn't really practice at QB in camp and was invisible as a WR in the preseason games. IMO, he's a project and a half, and his biggest value will be to help tighten up the defense as the scout team QB.

I do agree that NE should have been drafting a QB pretty much every year since probably 2015 or 2016. There's no harm in having more than one NFL caliber QB on the roster, and they aren't easy to come by.

 

[Boston]

Zappe looked horrible in the preseason games . . . but he was playing with some guys that didn't even get consideration for the practice squad. He certainly had a tendency to hold on to the ball too long and got sacked and fumbled way too often, but he didn't get much chance to play with the 1's. He was a sacrificial lamb in games no one cared about winning. I don't think he'll ever be starter material, but playing with 10 other NFL players would certainly allow him to do a lot more. He's probably adequate as a short term fill in, but if he had to start half the season, that would likely be a problem.

As far as Cunningham goes, all the hype came from one drive against 3's and 4's and predominantly with him running the ball. He didn't really practice at QB in camp and was invisible as a WR in the preseason games. IMO, he's a project and a half, and his biggest value will be to help tighten up the defense as the scout team QB.

I do agree that NE should have been drafting a QB pretty much every year since probably 2015 or 2016. There's no harm in having more than one NFL caliber QB on the roster, and they aren't easy to come by.

There are also issues between him and Mac...at this point the Pats are better off getting rid of him and getting in a decent veteran that can provide a positive influence to the QB room...no Hoyers need to apply please.

 

[Anarchy99]

BB certainly needs to do better / more with the offense in general. IIRC, the graphic posted last night mentioned no offensive player they drafted had been signed to a second contract with the team since Shaq Mason from the 2015 draft class. Also of note, here are the biggest salary cap hits for offensive players this year: Henry $15.5M, Brown $12.25M, Andrews $7M, Bourne $6.9M, Reiff $5M, JJSS $4.7M. Not exactly a collection of All Pros. And Jonnu Smith carries the second highest cap hit on the offense.

 

[Boston]

Releasing Zappe now also cost the Patriots $485,304 in dead cap money combined this season and next. And he's no longer on his four-year rookie contract. Zappe, who could be signed to another team's active roster at any time, is a free agent after this season

From Giardi:
Belichick's Patriots have had so much success over so many years that most are conditioned to assume he did it again rather than get poked at in @oldtakesexposed. I get it. I do. I often find myself searching for some unseen angle that can explain the method behind the madness. Belichick has earned that respect. But this isn't the man we're judging now. He hasn't had three years like this in New England. Heck, he barely had a three-week stretch that has gone like this. So, while I get it, I will not go there mindlessly. I see the decision on Zappe as just another in a series of roster mismanagements that took the Pats from perennial AFC finalist to a team looking for its first playoff win since they beat the Rams in the Super Bowl. That was February 3rd of 2019. It's not ancient history, but in this football life, it's damn close.

 

[fuzzy_dunlop]

The games can't start soon enough

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

You can’t wave off Belichick’s mishandling of the QB room merely because most backup QBs aren’t that good. That’s not how it works.

Perhaps you could start by stating specifically how the QB room was mishandled? By not being able to reach into a magic bag and pull out a Tom Brady clone? By trading up to take Jones at 4 and giving away three 1sts and a 3rd? Oh wait...

 

[Anarchy99]

That was February 3rd of 2019. It's not ancient history, but in this football life, it's damn close.

What does NE have in common with ARI, ATL, CAR, CHI, DEN, DET, IND, LVR, LAC, MIA, NYJ, PIT, and WAS? None of those teams have won a playoff game since the Patriots last won the Super Bowl. That's 14 teams . . . 44% of the league. Sure, no one wants to be in that grouping, but it's not like NE is one of two teams that haven't won a playoff game the past 4 years. Yes, other teams are closer to making and winning a playoff game than NE is. But it's not like NE is suddenly a 3-win team year after year.

As for the part about Zappe and $485K in dead cap money, that's barely a blip on the radar. Having to eat $12.8M against the cap for Jonnu is a deep gash. Having to swallow $6.2M NEXT year for McCourty is another deep wound. Wasting almost $2.4M in cap space for Jake Bailey is another body blow. But the hit for Zappe is more like a paper cut.