Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (2 Viewers)

[Boston]

One of the oddest things about this year was Tom Curran thought the Pats could be in the ballpark of an 11 win team this year...I say that because he is as good as there is and I just could not understand what he was seeing...well, the shine from him was off a few weeks ago and this week he totally nails it:

Curran: Pats' poor roster building comes to a head in Raiders loss

The Patriots’ talent deficiencies in key areas were on full display in Sunday’s loss to the Raiders — and it’s hard not to put the blame on Bill Belichick.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

"You have a quarterback with limitations, you have your tackle spots, which are glaring errors -- and that doesn't excuse Trent Brown, who had an illegal man-down-field penalty on the first drive -- and then your 'high-end' wide receivers (not delivering). The NFL in 2023 is built around, offensively, quarterback, wide receiver and tackle, and you have deficiencies at all of them through poor roster-building."

"I don't think the talent level is there," Curran said. "I think the coaching staff is too small and not as good as it was when Ted Johnson was roaming the field. They just don't have as good and experienced a coaching staff, the personnel doesn't bring in the right players, it seems, and Bill is in charge of the personnel department.

"... To me, Bill Belichick is not the coach he was, and you see it exhibited week in and week out by a team that's completely impotent on offense, starts slowly, commits penalties, is situationally poor, and in the crunch-time moments when you need a play to be made, your best players ... can't make the play for you."

 

[Brunell4MVP]

Nothing more needs to be said than this which I'm sure all you Pats fans know...

Bill Belichick	Wins	Losses
With Tom Brady	249	75
Without Tom Brady	81	94

 

[RenegadeRoy]

Yes, not having HOF QB who is maybe the best to ever do it does make wining more difficult.

 

[kyoun1e]

Hope they are massive sellers at the deadline.

Time to reset. Mac's not the guy. A number of excellent QB prospects next year.

 

[Boston]

Hope they are massive sellers at the deadline.

Time to reset. Mac's not the guy. A number of excellent QB prospects next year.

I really don't want BB making any more Personnel decisions but if he is the question is who has value for other teams? I guess a place to start would be players with contracts that are up after this year...on offense Bourne and Hunter Henry could help a contender and possibly Trent Brown for a team in bad shape at tackle...on D if you aren't going to extend Uche, Duggar or Jennings they could bring something back...Jalen Mills could have some appeal since he can play two positions.

 

[kyoun1e]

Hope they are massive sellers at the deadline.

Time to reset. Mac's not the guy. A number of excellent QB prospects next year.

I really don't want BB making any more Personnel decisions but if he is the question is who has value for other teams? I guess a place to start would be players with contracts that are up after this year...on offense Bourne and Hunter Henry could help a contender and possibly Trent Brown for a team in bad shape at tackle...on D if you aren't going to extend Uche, Duggar or Jennings they could bring something back...Jalen Mills could have some appeal since he can play two positions.

Yup. Get rid of 'em.

I hope they move on from Bill too. Need fresh eyes on the draft.

 

[Boston]

Hope they are massive sellers at the deadline.

Time to reset. Mac's not the guy. A number of excellent QB prospects next year.

I really don't want BB making any more Personnel decisions but if he is the question is who has value for other teams? I guess a place to start would be players with contracts that are up after this year...on offense Bourne and Hunter Henry could help a contender and possibly Trent Brown for a team in bad shape at tackle...on D if you aren't going to extend Uche, Duggar or Jennings they could bring something back...Jalen Mills could have some appeal since he can play two positions.

Yup. Get rid of 'em.

I hope they move on from Bill too. Need fresh eyes on the draft.

If BB still has any say in personnel after this debacle the fans will revolt... I can't see that even being on the table...I could see a scenario where he is allowed to coach again and that would be a mistake as they need to totally reboot, and it would not be fair to a new GM to have him still there and I just can't picture him coaching them without having a say in the roster...whole thing is a complete cluster right now.

 

[Lansdowne]

This may be an unpopular opinion, and I'm not just saying this because of the W-L record, but I genuinely think the current home uniforms are the ugliest in franchise history. Not a fan of the monochrome navy blue look. I hope that when Belichick is gone from the team, they change the uniforms and do away with the navy blue (which started with Belichick and probably a nod to Navy). Bring back the Pat Patriot look permanently or a re-imagining of the royal blues.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

This may be an unpopular opinion, and I'm not just saying this because of the W-L record, but I genuinely think the current home uniforms are the ugliest in franchise history. Not a fan of the monochrome navy blue look. I hope that when Belichick is gone from the team, they change the uniforms and do away with the navy blue (which started with Belichick and probably a nod to Navy). Bring back the Pat Patriot look permanently or a re-imagining of the royal blues.

This is a classic post, because it highlights what the fans want. Ability to select the GM, ability to select the head coach, ability to dictate the relationship between the head coach and the GM, the color of uniforms, and mascot related matters.

 

[Lansdowne]

This may be an unpopular opinion, and I'm not just saying this because of the W-L record, but I genuinely think the current home uniforms are the ugliest in franchise history. Not a fan of the monochrome navy blue look. I hope that when Belichick is gone from the team, they change the uniforms and do away with the navy blue (which started with Belichick and probably a nod to Navy). Bring back the Pat Patriot look permanently or a re-imagining of the royal blues.

This is a classic post, because it highlights what the fans want. Ability to select the GM, ability to select the head coach, ability to dictate the relationship between the head coach and the GM, the color of uniforms, and mascot related matters.

Or… it’s just a post suggesting a uniform change because I don’t like how it looks, and nothing deeper than that. Belichick can stay if that’s what you want, I just want a uniform change. I didn’t like the monochrome look when the Pats were using it in 2002, and I don’t like it now.

 

[Boston]

This may be an unpopular opinion, and I'm not just saying this because of the W-L record, but I genuinely think the current home uniforms are the ugliest in franchise history. Not a fan of the monochrome navy blue look. I hope that when Belichick is gone from the team, they change the uniforms and do away with the navy blue (which started with Belichick and probably a nod to Navy). Bring back the Pat Patriot look permanently or a re-imagining of the royal blues.

This is a classic post, because it highlights what the fans want. Ability to select the GM, ability to select the head coach, ability to dictate the relationship between the head coach and the GM, the color of uniforms, and mascot related matters.

If you mean classic in that that is what has happened since pro sports was invented I agree…that is why they are called fans…they care about their team and aren’t happy losing every week.

 

[Lansdowne]

This may be an unpopular opinion, and I'm not just saying this because of the W-L record, but I genuinely think the current home uniforms are the ugliest in franchise history. Not a fan of the monochrome navy blue look. I hope that when Belichick is gone from the team, they change the uniforms and do away with the navy blue (which started with Belichick and probably a nod to Navy). Bring back the Pat Patriot look permanently or a re-imagining of the royal blues.

This is a classic post, because it highlights what the fans want. Ability to select the GM, ability to select the head coach, ability to dictate the relationship between the head coach and the GM, the color of uniforms, and mascot related matters.

If you mean classic in that that is what has happened since pro sports was invented I agree…that is why they are called fans…they care about their team and aren’t happy losing every week.

You are right, fans voice their joy when their team is winning and voice their displeasure when their team is losing. A tale as old as time. And you can count me among the many who aren't happy with the way things are going. But my post was meant to be taken at face value: a fashion suggestion. I even said I'm not just saying this because of the W-L record. Didn't care for the current uniforms when they debuted three seasons ago (though I think it looks okay in the road whites).

SeniorVBDStudent didn't need to make that remark at me. If he's fine with the status quo then more power to him. I like to think all kinds of discourse is permitted in this thread without the need to attack others for it. In the end we all want to enjoy the product the Pats put out there. We can at least agree on that.

 

[Bossman]

They could wear red, white, and blue plaid for all I care ... as long as they were winning.
I guess as it stands, if you're going to watch them lose every Sunday, they could at least wear something that appeals to you. I, for one, choose not to watch.

 

[Boston]

This year's 6th round pick Ameer Speed cut today...sounds like the plan is to get him on the practice squad with someone coming off of IR:

Patriots waive DB Ameer Speed

The Patriots waived defensive back Ameer Speed on Thursday, the team announced.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

SeniorVBDStudent didn't need to make that remark at me. If he's fine with the status quo then more power to him. I like to think all kinds of discourse is permitted in this thread without the need to attack others for it. In the end we all want to enjoy the product the Pats put out there. We can at least agree on that.

You're right; I was being petty. I apologize. I'm a huge fan of Belichick so when the criticisms migrate from outside Boston to inside Boston it sticks in my craw.

 

[Lansdowne]

SeniorVBDStudent didn't need to make that remark at me. If he's fine with the status quo then more power to him. I like to think all kinds of discourse is permitted in this thread without the need to attack others for it. In the end we all want to enjoy the product the Pats put out there. We can at least agree on that.

You're right; I was being petty. I apologize. I'm a huge fan of Belichick so when the criticisms migrate from outside Boston to inside Boston it sticks in my craw.

Understandable, thank you. I'm forever grateful to Belichick for sticking it to the Jets and leading the Patriots to an unprecedented run of success. I also want to see him beat Shula's record given how much crap that guy talked about the Pats in 2007. It's tough seeing the direction the team is going. I'm admittedly not used to it being this bad (I only got into sports around the time Bledsoe was drafted so Parcells/Carroll/Belichick is all I've known thus far).

 

[Boston]

SeniorVBDStudent didn't need to make that remark at me. If he's fine with the status quo then more power to him. I like to think all kinds of discourse is permitted in this thread without the need to attack others for it. In the end we all want to enjoy the product the Pats put out there. We can at least agree on that.

You're right; I was being petty. I apologize. I'm a huge fan of Belichick so when the criticisms migrate from outside Boston to inside Boston it sticks in my craw.

Understandable, thank you. I'm forever grateful to Belichick for sticking it to the Jets and leading the Patriots to an unprecedented run of success. I also want to see him beat Shula's record given how much crap that guy talked about the Pats in 2007. It's tough seeing the direction the team is going. I'm admittedly not used to it being this bad (I only got into sports around the time Bledsoe was drafted so Parcells/Carroll/Belichick is all I've known thus far).

It is really sad watching this unfold and watching the end of an era...for 20 years what he did was unprecedented and may never be duplicated...outside of him and Brady those 20 years had so many iterations and players but they kept chugging along with so many amazing moments...the NFL is built to not have that happen but it did...the region will be forever indebted to him and regardless of how ugly it is getting his legend is cemented as one of the most important figures in NFL history...as for what it was like pre-Kraft/Parcells you are watching it now but it happened for decades...every once in a while they would be good like with Chuck Fairbanks or the Super Bowl with the Bears but it wouldn't last long and would go back into the gutter quickly...there were just so many foolish moments and the franchise was a complete laughingstock...for the old-timers it is truly mind-blowing what it turned into after all that futility...what bothers me and quite frankly pisses me off is it did not have to end this way...BB is just too smart to think the path he has taken them on post-Brady would work...once he made Patricia the OC I knew it was over because that was such an irrational decision...I'm not sure what happened (arrogance? age?) but at the end-of-the-day he has no one else to blame for where they are...no one...all good things must come to an end and the BB era is no different...been one helluva run and it will always be legendary but it's now time to turn the page and move on.

 

[Lansdowne]

That win felt good, that felt really good.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

That win felt good, that felt really good.

In particular, the ability to FINISH the game, the completion percentage, and the ability to keep incredible atheletes Allen and Diggs (mostly) in check.

 

[rockaction]

Those predictions about the Patriots' record back on Page 161? Welp, one of them looks really funny.

On a related but not salient note, I swear when I read my old posts that I knew Rodgers was going to get hurt because I sure hedged everything I said with that in mind.

 

[Boston]

Ok Patriot fans...where do we go from here...it is amazing how much work needs to be done just to get back to relevant let alone good...sad to see the BB era end in this manner but he is solely responsible for this roster, and it never stood a chance and it was obvious to see that back in the summer...I really hope he retires so they don't have to fire him...he has been amazing but it's time to move on...offensively it is depressing how bad the talent is...that unit needs a complete overall and it starts at QB as Mac is definitely not the answer (and yes, he was also hung out to try but that doesn't matter anymore)...defensively there are some good young pieces like Gonzalez, Barmore and White so there is something to build on on that side of the ball...the immediate question is who takes over for BB...Mayo appeared to be the heir-apparent but with this current train-wreck who knows what the Kraft's are thinking...there are plenty of rumors out there they covet Vrabel but not sure that is even an option...overall I do think you will see a HC/GM team and not one person...this franchise has been very stable for 20+ years but there is no doubt the page is turning and it is all gonna be new ASAP...will be at least entertaining this offseason.

 

[greenmountaingoat]

About half of my home league is Patriots fans. We have a good fb messenger chat going with some decent discussion about the Patriots. FBG is one place I come to get opinions about the Pats and apologies if this thread isn't the place (maybe it's being discussed in the Mac Jones thread).

A few things.

One of the other guys in the chat is a huge Dolphins fan. He's saying stuff like "Yeah, this is what it's like to be a fan of another team."

Still, it sticks in my craw how absolutely dog poop the management has been these past few years. So many hot takes about this Patriots team are wrong. Brady was responsible for a lot but, especially in the early years, he was clutch but he wasn't setting the league on fire. The early part of the dynasty was about defense, roster management and clever (cough cough) strategy. I'll die on this hill but if you watched the pats HOF ceremony, you'd have seen what Dante Scarnechia was for this team. It was him as much if not more than BB that was a tone setter in terms of being an absolute hard (butt). And guys like Ernie Adams. I promise you I will die on this hill. Hard work and preparation in ways like no other staff was pushing were the patriot way. Anyone that disagrees, I defy you to go watch that ceremony. Dante is an unbelievable guy but on the practice field he was an absolute terror.

Ernie's ways are the stuff of legend and shrouded in secrecy. If there was ever a guy that I would have liked to know just what on earth he actually did over the years, it would be him.

Bedard pissed me off last year but the reality is that he was right. Roster management used to be an edge for this team. As was their ability to evaluate NFL players. Bill and this staff were often- not always but often- ahead of the game. Welker. Corey Dillon. Vrabel. Amendola. These were unheralded FA signings that absolutely smashed. I don't think Bill and his squad were ever that good at evaluating NCAA players. Their edge was in evaluating NFL players.

I don't know what Bill was thinking with half of the stuff he's decided to do in the past several years. It feels like he's always been ahead of my comprehension of what he was up to. It's why so many of us "In Bill we truster" s are out there. For many years, he would defy conventional wisdom and more often than not, it worked out.

Well, it ain't working out any more. It's boneheaded decision on top of boneheaded decision. The team makes a ton of bad plays on the field. They're not just lacking talent, they're lacking execution. Who decided that Mac should take 5 sacks and not be able to hit open guys for TDs? Is the OLine bad at pass pro? Most of the time, yes. Are the receivers good? no. Anyone watching the game watched Minshew do a better job than Mac in escaping pressure, throwing it away when it wasn't there or trying to make tight window throws that were worth the chance.

The OLine blocked their butts off in the run game and Stevenson and Elliot both looked good. The D did a decent job of holding the Colts down for most of the game. Pittman is twice the receiver of anyone on the Pats. And yet the game was right there. Any non- doggie doo QB wins that game, even with this pass catching group.

Thanks for the good times Bill. It's time to move on. Who even knows how much longer it's going to take to rebuild this program. I sure hope the next GM knows what they're doing.

 

[kyoun1e]

Ok Patriot fans...where do we go from here...it is amazing how much work needs to be done just to get back to relevant let alone good...sad to see the BB era end in this manner but he is solely responsible for this roster, and it never stood a chance and it was obvious to see that back in the summer...I really hope he retires so they don't have to fire him...he has been amazing but it's time to move on...offensively it is depressing how bad the talent is...that unit needs a complete overall and it starts at QB as Mac is definitely not the answer (and yes, he was also hung out to try but that doesn't matter anymore)...defensively there are some good young pieces like Gonzalez, Barmore and White so there is something to build on on that side of the ball...the immediate question is who takes over for BB...Mayo appeared to be the heir-apparent but with this current train-wreck who knows what the Kraft's are thinking...there are plenty of rumors out there they covet Vrabel but not sure that is even an option...overall I do think you will see a HC/GM team and not one person...this franchise has been very stable for 20+ years but there is no doubt the page is turning and it is all gonna be new ASAP...will be at least entertaining this offseason.

Bye week. Honestly, I hope we see signs of a reset coming out of it. It's time. We've all seen enough.

Play the young guys. Determine which guys are core and should be extended.

Really want the Belichik era to end starting now, but I doubt they're going to do it. Rip the band aid off.

 

[Boston]

Ok Patriot fans...where do we go from here...it is amazing how much work needs to be done just to get back to relevant let alone good...sad to see the BB era end in this manner but he is solely responsible for this roster, and it never stood a chance and it was obvious to see that back in the summer...I really hope he retires so they don't have to fire him...he has been amazing but it's time to move on...offensively it is depressing how bad the talent is...that unit needs a complete overall and it starts at QB as Mac is definitely not the answer (and yes, he was also hung out to try but that doesn't matter anymore)...defensively there are some good young pieces like Gonzalez, Barmore and White so there is something to build on on that side of the ball...the immediate question is who takes over for BB...Mayo appeared to be the heir-apparent but with this current train-wreck who knows what the Kraft's are thinking...there are plenty of rumors out there they covet Vrabel but not sure that is even an option...overall I do think you will see a HC/GM team and not one person...this franchise has been very stable for 20+ years but there is no doubt the page is turning and it is all gonna be new ASAP...will be at least entertaining this offseason.

Bye week. Honestly, I hope we see signs of a reset coming out of it. It's time. We've all seen enough.

Play the young guys. Determine which guys are core and should be extended.

Really want the Belichik era to end starting now, but I doubt they're going to do it. Rip the band aid off.

I really hope they don't fire him now/in-season...he does not deserve that...it is what it is now...ride out the year, hope they get a very high pick than start the new era.

 

[rockaction]

What this season by the Jets and the Patriots (and I lump them in together so that people don't think I'm just bashing a hated rival) tells me more than anything about each respective club is that Buffalo can't be that good. Anybody who can lose to Zach Wilson and the Mac Jones-led Pats is really suspect.

Because the Pats and the Jets stink at QB, O-line, and the skill positions, which nukes their offenses. Each have a dandy RB and the Jets have a dandy of a traditional alpha receiver. But that's about it on offense.

 

[TomServo]

One of the other guys in the chat is a huge Dolphins fan. He's saying stuff like "Yeah, this is what it's like to be a fan of another team."

My schadenfreude is at an all time high watching the Pats degrade to the same level as the Jets (as a Jets fan). You may not realize how good you've had it, rooting for a team that has had a chance to make it to, and has won, Superbowls in your lifetime.

 

[Boston]

One of the other guys in the chat is a huge Dolphins fan. He's saying stuff like "Yeah, this is what it's like to be a fan of another team."

My schadenfreude is at an all time high watching the Pats degrade to the same level as the Jets (as a Jets fan). You may not realize how good you've had it, rooting for a team that has had a chance to make it to, and has won, Superbowls in your lifetime.

Any Patriot fan over the age of 40 is very well aware of how good they have had it...pre-Parcells the Patriots were considered one of the worst franchises in all of sports (not just the NFL)...it was a complete gong show.

 

[greenmountaingoat]

I will be stunned if Bill's fired mid-season. Absolutely stunned.

This business of "Vrabel is Kraft's chosen HC replacement" is a head scratcher. Is he going to be available and if so, interested? I like Vrabel (I think?) more importantly than the HC, who's going to be the GM? Would the folks we would want running the show actually interested in this team? I don't know, man. I guess having your shot at a top shelf QB would be a good starting point

 

[greenmountaingoat]

What this season by the Jets and the Patriots (and I lump them in together so that people don't think I'm just bashing a hated rival) tells me more than anything about each respective club is that Buffalo can't be that good. Anybody who can lose to Zach Wilson and the Mac Jones-led Pats is really suspect.

Because the Pats and the Jets stink at QB, O-line, and the skill positions, which nukes their offenses. Each have a dandy RB and the Jets have a dandy of a traditional alpha receiver. But that's about it on offense.

I mostly agree and honestly feel bad for Bills fans. The window isn't shutting but man, it's not as open as it seemed like it was. Prosthetic appendages aside, they seem like folks that have earned a SB more than most. It's why I thought they should push for Hopkins at the trade deadline.

 

[Lansdowne]

I want Belichick to beat Shula's record, but feels more and more like he'd have to do that with a different team with a better roster than what he's built for himself here in New England in recent years. I don't want him retiring before that, and I don't think he will. The thing is if the Pats tank the rest of this season they'll have a chance at a top QB prospect in the first round, and Belichick has already failed the last first round QB he drafted by not surrounding him with the talent necessary to succeed. I remember life before Brady. I remember seeing this team get diced up by the likes of Koy Detmer and Damon Huard. It's not a good feeling, but it's where we are now.

 

[Anarchy99]

Jack Jones released.

 

[Boston]

How do you get to 2-8...here is a piece of the puzzle:

Chad Graff
https://twitter.com/ChadGraff
@ChadGraff

The Patriots' 2022 draft class:
Cole Strange: starter
Tyquan Thornton: 3 catches all season
Marcus Jones: injured
Jack Jones: cut
Pierre Strong: traded
Bailey Zappe: cut then re-signed as backup
Kevin Harris: P-squad
Sam Roberts: backup
Hasen Hines: cut
Andrew Stueber: P-squad

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Jack Jones released.

Theres a nasty story there, I'm sure. Probably several at this point.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Anyone want to comment on Gronk's media headlines about just releasing Mac Jones?
Thinks he should be cut by the Patriots and then signed by the Browns, not sure if Gronk understands how this works from a GM POV

 

[Anarchy99]

Anyone want to comment on Gronk's media headlines about just releasing Mac Jones?
Thinks he should be cut by the Patriots and then signed by the Browns, not sure if Gronk understands how this works from a GM POV

NE is not going to just cut Jones. Gronk is cray cray on this one.

 

[SoBeDad]

The Giants won! NE is currently 1.03 in the draft. Tankathon has CHI with Caleb, ARI with Marvin, and NE with Drake. I think ARI wins again.

 

[Boston]

The Giants won! NE is currently 1.03 in the draft. Tankathon has CHI with Caleb, ARI with Marvin, and NE with Drake. I think ARI wins again.

Pats at the Giants next week...big draft ramifications.

 

[Lansdowne]

The Giants won! NE is currently 1.03 in the draft. Tankathon has CHI with Caleb, ARI with Marvin, and NE with Drake. I think ARI wins again.

Pats at the Giants next week...big draft ramifications.

On the one hand, I was thinking the Pats should win that game without too much fuss. On the other hand, Tommy DeVito now has as many 3 TD performances this season as Mac Jones does, and we don’t know for sure yet who’s starting.

I almost want the Pats to get Marvin Harrison Jr. over a QB in the draft, as there will be other opportunities at getting a QB but a prospect like MHJ doesn’t come around very often. Would be hard not to hit with that pick, even if the Pats signed a guy like Minshew as a placeholder until the next franchise QB is found.

 

[SoBeDad]

I almost want the Pats to get Marvin Harrison Jr. over a QB in the draft, as there will be other opportunities at getting a QB but a prospect like MHJ doesn’t come around very often. Would be hard not to hit with that pick, even if the Pats signed a guy like Minshew Dobbs as a placeholder until the next franchise QB is found.

Fixed your post.

 

[Lansdowne]

I almost want the Pats to get Marvin Harrison Jr. over a QB in the draft, as there will be other opportunities at getting a QB but a prospect like MHJ doesn’t come around very often. Would be hard not to hit with that pick, even if the Pats signed a guy like Minshew Dobbs as a placeholder until the next franchise QB is found.

Fixed your post.

Loving what I’m seeing from Dobbs. Would prefer him over Minshew too. He’s earned himself quite a bit of money this offseason I think, if the Pats can make it work then yeah bring him in.

 

[Boston]

The Giants won! NE is currently 1.03 in the draft. Tankathon has CHI with Caleb, ARI with Marvin, and NE with Drake. I think ARI wins again.

Pats at the Giants next week...big draft ramifications.

On the one hand, I was thinking the Pats should win that game without too much fuss. On the other hand, Tommy DeVito now has as many 3 TD performances this season as Mac Jones does, and we don’t know for sure yet who’s starting.

I almost want the Pats to get Marvin Harrison Jr. over a QB in the draft, as there will be other opportunities at getting a QB but a prospect like MHJ doesn’t come around very often. Would be hard not to hit with that pick, even if the Pats signed a guy like Minshew as a placeholder until the next franchise QB is found.

I hear ya on Harrison but in today's NFL QB is king...if they have a chance to get Williams or Maye I don't see how you can pass that up unless you have a plan B that works long-term...I don't want to be in a spot where they are chasing that position for years...it is 4 years post-TB12 and we see where they are now and it's not good.

 

[kyoun1e]

The Giants won! NE is currently 1.03 in the draft. Tankathon has CHI with Caleb, ARI with Marvin, and NE with Drake. I think ARI wins again.

Pats at the Giants next week...big draft ramifications.

If they beat the NYG it would be so Patriots right now.

Must lose situation.

NYG D is legit too.

Really hope post bye messages are sent that it's clear we're looking to reboot.

 

[Boston]

Curran: It's still not sinking in how bad the 2023 Patriots are

The Patriots have the AFC’s worst record, but for some reason, they’re still not being treated like a cellar dweller, writes Tom E. Curran.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

That Belichick can go back to Mac after a vote of "no-confidence" like we saw in Frankfurt is head-scratching. It’s head-scratching in the same way having Malik Cunningham as Jones’ backup against the Raiders was head scratching. Or opting for JuJu Smith-Schuster instead of Jakobi Meyers. Or drafting two tight ends in the third round of the 2020 draft then spending a boatload on two more tight ends in free agency 11 months later. Or spending a first-round pick on a guard the league viewed as a third-rounder in the 2022 draft. Or installing a defensive coordinator as the offensive coordinator.

Nobody makes more “hold my beer” decisions than Bill

 

[Lansdowne]

The Giants won! NE is currently 1.03 in the draft. Tankathon has CHI with Caleb, ARI with Marvin, and NE with Drake. I think ARI wins again.

Pats at the Giants next week...big draft ramifications.

If they beat the NYG it would be so Patriots right now.

Must lose situation.

NYG D is legit too.

Really hope post bye messages are sent that it's clear we're looking to reboot.

I don’t think BB has it in him to throw games unless it’s for strategic playoff position, like they did in 2005 by throwing the game against Miami. Can’t forget Matt Cassel being put in at the end, going for a two point conversion instead of the gimme extra point to send it to overtime, and Cassel airmailing it out the corner of the endzone. Did his buddy Nick Saban a solid by letting him win, and set the Pats as the 4 seed hosting the Jaguars instead of as the 6 seed hosting the Steelers.

In any case I’m hoping Rhamondre Stevenson can help my fantasy team in a big way this stretch, and thus I hope Bailey Zappe is the starting QB and leads to an even more conservative offensive approach. If BB elects to start Mac Jones again then you know the tank is on. This team could legitimately lose to Tommy DeVito. The Pats usually eat rookie QB’s for breakfast but I don’t know about this Pats team.

 

[Boston]

The Giants won! NE is currently 1.03 in the draft. Tankathon has CHI with Caleb, ARI with Marvin, and NE with Drake. I think ARI wins again.

Pats at the Giants next week...big draft ramifications.

If they beat the NYG it would be so Patriots right now.

Must lose situation.

NYG D is legit too.

Really hope post bye messages are sent that it's clear we're looking to reboot.

I don’t think BB has it in him to throw games unless it’s for strategic playoff position, like they did in 2005 by throwing the game against Miami. Can’t forget Matt Cassel being put in at the end, going for a two point conversion instead of the gimme extra point to send it to overtime, and Cassel airmailing it out the corner of the endzone. Did his buddy Nick Saban a solid by letting him win, and set the Pats as the 4 seed hosting the Jaguars instead of as the 6 seed hosting the Steelers.

In any case I’m hoping Rhamondre Stevenson can help my fantasy team in a big way this stretch, and thus I hope Bailey Zappe is the starting QB and leads to an even more conservative offensive approach. If BB elects to start Mac Jones again then you know the tank is on. This team could legitimately lose to Tommy DeVito. The Pats usually eat rookie QB’s for breakfast but I don’t know about this Pats team.

I don't see BB being part of a tank...the only way I could see that is if he has been 100% assured he will be back as both HC and in full control of all football ops...I would be absolutely shocked beyond belief if that is the case and if it is Bob and Jonathan will have a fan mutiny on their hands...as for QB I don't know how he can play Mac...Zappe is not the answer but everything I have heard/read says Mac has pretty much lost the locker-room and at 2-8 why roll him out there again...what purpose does that serve other than to makes things uglier...unfortunately there have been so many stupid decisions post-TB12 how can we be surprised by one more.

 

[Boston]

2-9 with LAC, @ Pitt, KC, @Denver, @Buff, NYJ...while you can never underestimate the Chargers ability to underachieve the only potential win I see is home against NYJ although with their D and the Pats O It would have to be something like 9-6...hate to root against them but at this point losing out and getting the #2 pick is the best-case scenario...only rumors out there post-BB are Mayo which has been out there for quite a while (but things have certainly changed a lot) and Vrabel which may not even be realistic and may be more the media just assuming the Kraft's want someone with Patriot ties and right now the pickings are real slim if that is the case...surprised there haven't been more rumors and speculation but gotta believe that is coming soon.

 

[kyoun1e]

2-9 with LAC, @ Pitt, KC, @Denver, @Buff, NYJ...while you can never underestimate the Chargers ability to underachieve the only potential win I see is home against NYJ although with their D and the Pats O It would have to be something like 9-6...hate to root against them but at this point losing out and getting the #2 pick is the best-case scenario...only rumors out there post-BB are Mayo which has been out there for quite a while (but things have certainly changed a lot) and Vrabel which may not even be realistic and may be more the media just assuming the Kraft's want someone with Patriot ties and right now the pickings are real slim if that is the case...surprised there haven't been more rumors and speculation but gotta believe that is coming soon.

I don't see them winning another game.

Rookie kicker's shank was so fitting. I think it's destiny at this point.

Even if they get the #3 pick, they could grab M. Harrison, maybe trade up from round 2 and get J. Daniels or other and maybe sign a veteran QB for a year.

What a mess.

 

[Boston]

Curran: End of Patriots' run has come faster than anyone imagined

After another week of “rock bottom,” Tom E. Curran wonders how Bill Belichick and the Patriots are going to get through the final six weeks of a lost season.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

It won’t be a close call for ownership on whether they should clean house and part ways with Bill Belichick. And there’s no doubt remaining the team needs a quarterback not named Mac Jones at the top of the 2024 depth chart.

He’s a living legend and it’s been a privilege to watch his leadership and football genius up close for all 24 seasons. The success he’s been largely responsible for stuffed billions of dollars into the local economy and the pockets of players, coaches, executives, media entities and the people who hired him.
Do the Patriots now stink because of the decisions Belichick’s made with coaching and personnel? Yes.

And not with 360 minutes of football remaining for a team that’s not even equipped right now to start looking to 2024 because there are really no “young kids” who aren’t already playing. Nor is there a quarterback to develop.

 

[Anarchy99]

I don't think much has been decided in terms of what happens beyond this season. The big unknown is BB's contract. The only people that know its terms and conditions are BB and the Kraft's. It's been rumored / speculated / guessed that BB could make $30M a year as coach plus an unknown amount as GM. There may also be an additional fine / penalty for early termination of the contract. The media thinks that the contract runs at least through the 2024 season. It's possible that to get out of the contract (ie to fire BB), it could cost the Kraft's up to $50M (again, no one that knows is talking about it).

If there's anything we've seen about NE, it's that they haven't shown much interest in spending extra money. I'm not sure if having to pay off BB is a deal breaker, but I am guessing they wouldn't want to if they could avoid it. That leaves trading Bill as the best option (which probably would still cost them something). But the other issue could be that the team that trades for Bill would have to honor his contract (which states that he is head coach and defacto GM at the same time). Obviously, all of the particulars could be ironed out and negotiated, but if BB is intent on running an entire organization, IMO, I doubt he would agree to go to somewhere to only be head coach (I also don't think he would only want to be a GM).

Depending on who you want to believe / listen to, all options are still on the table: BB returns next year, he gets fired after the season is over, he retires, he gets traded, or he loses his GM hat. It's been rumored that BB and the Kraft's will sit down at the end of the season and listen hear out BB's vision on how he would rebuild the franchise moving forward and then decide from there what they will do.

One thing that makes me wonder about how things got to this point is the rumored narrative that BB was never a big fan of Mac Jones, and he was told to draft him, play him, and keep playing him (as the Kraft's are said to be big Mac supporters). Even if all the other issues are true (bad OL, lack of WR talent, bad coaching and development, etc.), Jones has made way too many poor decisions and terrible throws. He may not have been the problem, but as time passed, he became a problem. It's pretty clear now that he's not the solution. IMO, it's also clear that Zappe isn't the solution either, as he's had countless chances to show that he was a better option than Jones (and so far hasn't taken over the job).

I know the in-house HC candidate is Mayo, but I don't think that he would change the culture all that much. The defense when healthy is still solid . . . it's the offense that has proven to be dysfunctional. If they really want to start over, they should bring in a completely new regime starting with an offensive minded head coach running a completely new system. Since Mayo hasn't coached anywhere else, all he knows are NE related coaches and personnel. That's also why I wouldn't be a fan of them bringing in Vrabel . . . they need a fresh start.

I've also heard talk that if they miss out on (or don't want) the QB's that are available at their spot in the draft that they could take Harrison, an OT, or whichever impact player was available and take a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round to develop. In that scenario, they might actually see how Jones could do with a new coaching staff until the rookie QB was ready. I don't mind the first part (taking a position other than QB in the first), but I am not a big fan of the last part (the Jones experiment needs to end).

 

[JohnnyU]

Just like Robert Johnson, the devil eventually comes to collect.