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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter captain_amazing
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Boston
Footballguy
Agree...BB is not signing Harrison looking ahead almost a month...this team needs help on D and if Harrison can provide some situational pass rushing it would be a big help...
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I don't think BB needs any help from Harrison but I am sure he will pick his brain to get info. If the Pats need a straight-ahead pass rusher then they might get a little help from him but Harrison has definitely lost a step or two.Boston said:
Bossman
Footballguy
Patriots LB's are a steaming pile of poo.
Bunch of nobodies expected to perform at a championship level. Pretty bad when Kyle Van Noy is your best option there.
Hopefully old man Harrison is an upgrade over the likes of Elandon Roberts and Marquis Flowers.
I could see him working his way into the mix.
BB is known for signing older / unwanted players and getting some extra life out of them ...including another Harrison.
Bryan Cox, Rodney Harrison, Seau, Moss, Long, etc.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Signing Harrison is a move that, when he makes a big play to get them further in the playoffs.....will only add to the legend of BB.
I fully expect Harrison to be the D MVP of the playoffs and completely wreck PIT on the field.
I fully expect Harrison to be the D MVP of the playoffs and completely wreck PIT on the field.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Foles isn't beating NE. Foles MIGHT be the QB in a game in which PHI beats NE........but he's not beating NE.*
*PHI isn't even getting to the point where they could play NE if they don't solve their D woes........they might be an underdog at home in their first playoff game.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
I would bet a very, very large chunk of money against this happening. Harrison may help by providing intel but he’s got very little left in the tank. He’s far removed from 2008 Harrison.
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NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
Can you expound on how he might help provide intel? I hear/see that being said but don't see how harrison gives them anything meaningful that they don't already know. Its not like they have ever really struggled to crack the pit def during the brady era. Similar to the stealing signals hysteria/whining, it kinda sounds good, particularly for the haters and the paranoid but it doesn't hold up real well to scrutiny (how exactly, what, when, specifics etc).
I don't expect a lot out of Harrison but I suspect he will be an upgrade to what they have now and there is a good chance he can give them at least some help. I also think its possible he is done and they release him but they r so thin at the position I don't think its very likely.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
Mainly just responding to the prediction that Harrison would tear it up in the playoffs. I agree that the “intel” he provides should have minimal if any impact on a potential matchup between the 2 teams. I could have phrased my response better.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
Bossman
Footballguy
This offense is going to have to carry the team if they are going to win another SB this year (by the looks of things on the other side of the ball).
Sure would like to see Mitchell and Hogan back in the starting lineup.
This offense has been "The Gronk Show" lately and Brady really needs some other options that he has timing with.
Hopefully they get some game time this week to get the rust out before it counts.
No huddle / spread offense should then become pretty potent and more prevalent with those two back:
Cooks, Hogan, Mitchell, Amendola, Gronk, .... sounds a lot better than
Cooks, Amendola, Dorsett, Britt, Gronk
Anarchy99
Footballguy
You have been taking jabs at the Pats defense pretty regularly, and while they aren't a lock down D, I don't think they are as bad as you have been making them out to be.
One of the reasons they haven't done as well as late has been the ineffectiveness of the offense. The offense went a month without a turnover and hit a stretch now with 7 turnovers in 5 games. Their struggles on third down have been well documented. Give the ball away and struggle to get first downs and the defense will have to do a lot more.
The defense has had 2 games allowing no TD's, 4 games allowing 1 TD, and 5 games where they gave up 2 touchdowns. That's 11 games that they should have been set up to win (and in fact, they won all of those games). Including their shaky start, the defense has allowed 1.9 TD's per game. After the first 4 games, they have only allowed 1.4 TD's a game.
Sure, they have gotten some good fortune on overturned reviews, opponents have made some bonehead plays, and opposing kickers have missed a lot of field goals that makes those numbers look better than they probably are. But of the teams they could face in the playoffs . . .
The Ravens offense ranks 26th in yards. The Titans rank 21st in yards. The Bills offense did not score an offensive TD in two tries. Both KC and SD had stretches where they were good offensively but cooled off compared to earlier in the season. I don't believe the Jags can win in NE if they have to rely on Bortles (meaning the defense would have to win for them). And I still think Brady can carve up the Steelers defense.
Bottom line, the defense may be far from elite . . . but they should be able to be good enough, especially if they get some guys back and are a little healthier.
Bossman
Footballguy
All good points.
My frustration stems from the fact that I expected so much more from this defense before the season started.
The sudden retirement of Nink, the Kony Ealy smoke screen, and Hightower and Rivers to IR, all contributed to crushing my expectations.
I really thought this would be a top 5 defense. I'm not saying they can't or won't win ... but it could have been a lot easier.
I’m a little concerned about the Patriots. Tom Brady hasn’t looked like himself the last few weeks. I’m concerned that ACL injury is a little more serious than they are letting on, but more importantly this defense is very beatable.
The Pat’s are lucky in the sense that nobody in the AFC really scares me (not to say that they can’t lose) and if they can get to the SB I wouldn’t want to face Brady/Bellichick in a single game...For what it’s worth, I don’t think they are good enough to win the SB this year.
The Pat’s are lucky in the sense that nobody in the AFC really scares me (not to say that they can’t lose) and if they can get to the SB I wouldn’t want to face Brady/Bellichick in a single game...For what it’s worth, I don’t think they are good enough to win the SB this year.
Bossman
Footballguy
oh... and can I add the fact that Butler and Gilmore are playing like average DB's instead of the huge contract / franchised players that they are.
I suppose some of that is a result of an anemic pass rush ... so I'll cut them a little slack ... but I expected more.
Boston
Footballguy
A lot more...the Pats don't throw around big $ to free agents too often but right now Gilmore is definitely not playing up to that contract...reminds me a little of Adalius Thomas..it seemed like such a great move at the time but it never panned out...if the Pats are gonna win a title those two guys have to play a lot closer to their upside...I think the playoffs is where the Hightower injury is really going to hurt...he is a big-game player and his ability to play pretty much every position in the front 7 gave BB and Patricia a real weapon on that side of the ball...the guy I want to see really step up is Trey Flowers...they really need him to do his best Willie McGinest impersonation...the kid has a ton of talent and they need him to be a real force with Hightower not around...
Bossman
Footballguy
I don't typically link youtube videos ... but this one is pretty funny and relates to this topic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36BpxrWMnmY
Edit to add new link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36BpxrWMnmY
Edit to add new link
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bostonfred
Footballguy
Classic press conference moment from belichick. Paraphrasing the question slightly
Reporter - Coach you clinched the top seed this week on new year's eve does that mean a big night on the town of celebrating and dancing?
Belichick - Hopefully not.
Reporter - Coach you clinched the top seed this week on new year's eve does that mean a big night on the town of celebrating and dancing?
Belichick - Hopefully not.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Bossman
Footballguy
agreed. Nice to see him involved as much as he was with only a few days with the team.
He certainly didn't look to be as old and slow as PIT fans would like to believe.
The offense still seemed out of sync. Seemed Cooks stopped running on what could have been a deep TD. Amendola running the wrong route on 3rd down.
It was pretty obvious that Brady was told NOT to throw to Gronk ... there were plays where Gronk seemed wide open and Brady didn't even look his direction.
I assume it was an effort to keep Rob healthy ... so he was merely a decoy. So safe to assume the offense would have been more efficient otherwise.
Also, I'm surprised not more passing to the RB's like they would typically do. Guess they were thin at that position today so opted not to utilize them?
WR's could not get separation and Brady was forced to throw low and away many times.
Patriots were baled out on several occasions by some ticky tack penalties on more than one occasion.
Running game / Lewis looked pretty good but wasn't enough to convert on 3rd down.
wilked
Footballguy
They had one realistic RB (Dion). I mean ther was Bolden, and of course Develin, but who were you looking for?
Bossman
Footballguy
any of the three are capable of catching a pass.
Seems Lewis caught his share but I was looking for them on critical 3rd downs.
Patriots only converted only 4 of 15 3rd down attempts (they were gifted 3 more by some questionable NYJ penalties).
Just doesn't seem to be the NEP offense that I'm used to watching.
Pats barely turned over pages in their playbook yesterday, very vanilla. Brady took no chances and frankly unless he is throwing to Gronk I hope he keeps that up in the playoffs. If they don’t turn the ball over, I don’t see any AFC team beating them in Foxboro.
Bossman
Footballguy
Seems that NE has another easy run to the SB.
No Ravens ... which seems to be NE's kryptonite in the playoffs...
I'm predicting BUF will take out JAX ... and KC will dispose of TEN.
BUF comes to NE and gets crushed ... KC defeats PIT.
NE plays KC for the AFC championship. A week one rematch that NE will not take lightly.
Unfortunately we do not get to see Harrison vs his old team.
It would be great to see your prediction come true, but I don’t think it’s going to go that way.
-I think Jax easily defeats Buffalo
- KC over Tenn
I think KC gives the Patriots a reasonably tough game, but the Patriots win (Gronk is a major issue for KC) and that Jax vs Pitt game could go either way. If you put a gun to my head, I’d say Pittsburgh wins, but a Jax victory would not shock me at all.
The Pats vs Pit in New England is a toss up in my mind. Again, if u had a gun pointed at my head I’d pick New England, but it could go either way.
hardcoredx
Footballguy
It looks like Pats vs Jags. I see the jags beating everyone outside maybe the Pats.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
I'm rolling with my traditional reverse jinx: Pats are one and done.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I was going to post that the Pats never lose to the same team twice in the same year. Until I looked it up: 2005 DEN, 2006 IND, 2010 NYJ, 2011 NYG, 2012 BAL, and 2015 DEN. Two of those losses were at home. Meaning they went 17-1 in their other home playoff games in the BB/TB era.
If the walking wounded return and the cupboards get restocked, I tend to think NE would win. But one of the wildcard teams could win (stranger things have happened) and they might not play the Chiefs.
Wingnut
Footballguy
Death of the dynasty?
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2752509-tom-brady-reportedly-forced-jimmy-garoppolo-trade-patriots-involved-in-rift
Tom Brady Reportedly Forced Jimmy Garoppolo Trade; Patriots Involved in Rift
ESPN.com is reportedly preparing to publish a piece by Seth Wickersham on Friday that will detail a rift between New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft, quarterback Tom Brady and head coach Bill Belichick.
According to Boston Sports Media Watch's Bruce Allen, the article focuses on "a power struggle among the trio as to who deserves the most credit for the dynasty."
Allen added the article claims "the rift is so severe many Patriots feel this is the last year together for the trio" and that Brady "went to Kraft to force Belichick to trade" Jimmy Garoppolo.
Pro Football Talk's Mike Florio confirmed a story will be published Friday but cited a source who said "the ESPN report will not contend that Brady tried to force a trade."
There have been rumblings of discord between Brady and Belichick throughout the 2017 season stemming from Belichick's decision to ban Brady's trainer and business partner, Alex Guerrero, from boarding the team plane or standing on the sideline, per the Boston Globe's Bob Hohler. Guerrero is also reportedly no longer allowed to work with Patriots players other than Brady.
According to Hohler, those decisions have "created some friction in Foxborough."
Belichick has since declined to address the details of the report.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2752509-tom-brady-reportedly-forced-jimmy-garoppolo-trade-patriots-involved-in-rift
Tom Brady Reportedly Forced Jimmy Garoppolo Trade; Patriots Involved in Rift
ESPN.com is reportedly preparing to publish a piece by Seth Wickersham on Friday that will detail a rift between New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft, quarterback Tom Brady and head coach Bill Belichick.
According to Boston Sports Media Watch's Bruce Allen, the article focuses on "a power struggle among the trio as to who deserves the most credit for the dynasty."
Allen added the article claims "the rift is so severe many Patriots feel this is the last year together for the trio" and that Brady "went to Kraft to force Belichick to trade" Jimmy Garoppolo.
Pro Football Talk's Mike Florio confirmed a story will be published Friday but cited a source who said "the ESPN report will not contend that Brady tried to force a trade."
There have been rumblings of discord between Brady and Belichick throughout the 2017 season stemming from Belichick's decision to ban Brady's trainer and business partner, Alex Guerrero, from boarding the team plane or standing on the sideline, per the Boston Globe's Bob Hohler. Guerrero is also reportedly no longer allowed to work with Patriots players other than Brady.
According to Hohler, those decisions have "created some friction in Foxborough."
Belichick has since declined to address the details of the report.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
Here is the ESPN article
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/hotread180105/beginning-end-new-england-patriots-robert-kraft-tom-brady-bill-belichick-internal-power-struggle
Definitely a hit piece but a lot of it feels right if you have followed the team this year. Basically, #### Kraft and Brady is my biggest take away.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/hotread180105/beginning-end-new-england-patriots-robert-kraft-tom-brady-bill-belichick-internal-power-struggle
Definitely a hit piece but a lot of it feels right if you have followed the team this year. Basically, #### Kraft and Brady is my biggest take away.
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
How about zero if you didn't have that film crew and two head coaches tripping over their members while wearing their big, red clown shoes.
Minus 3 via stupid coaches Mike Martz, Pete Carroll and the ATL crew. All superior teams with weak coaches.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
It would be interesting to see the performance of one without the other. I think so many people thought they would ride off into the sunset together, but we might get a clue to who was more critical to the success the last decade if you see BB-less team with Brady at QB in the next couple years.
They are at best a 10-6 or 9-7 team next year with a whole new coaching staffing and I could easily see them falling to 8-8. They have been using the same playbook for almost two decades, a new coaching staff coming in would cause a lot of disruption. It is also not a fair clue due to Brady's age.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The Pats have had multiple coordinators over the years and never missed a beat.
They haven’t come close to using the same play book for 20 years. They could lose McDaniels, Patricia, and Casario and it’s unlikely to show on the field.
They have certainly added to the playbook but essentially it has all been built off of the same terminology and base. The question wasn't if they lose coordinators, it was if they lose Belichick. He has been the constant and I don't realistically see a scenario where Bill leaves and they hand the job to McDaniels. I don't think it will happen but if the ESPN story is essentially true and this is Belichick's last year, he isn't going to tell Kraft. The story said Bill is actively helping McDaniels & Patricia prepare for interviews. Again, if Bill has made up his mind his is leaving at the end of the year I think his idea is to secure head coaching jobs for both guys and then stick it to Kraft.
IMO you are crazy to think this team doesn't miss a beat with a whole new coaching staff next year.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I was going under the assumption that BB was staying and the other guys were leaving. I agree that if BB were to leave the Pats would be in uncharted territory.