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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (1 Viewer)

Tom E. Curran has planted his flag and is resolute and unwavering that NE is winning 10 or 11 games and possibly 12 this season. Even with their schedule, the stable of top QBs they will have to face. He thinks O’Brien gets the offense back to where it was in 2021, the defense will be younger and faster, and that the team has a lot of talented players. Let’s just say he has a minority option among the Boston media.

I could not disagree with him more on this but I really respect Curran's opinion and he is not one to say something just to be different...if the Pats get to 11 or 12 wins with this roster and schedule it will be BB's best coaching performance outside of the first Super Bowl and Billy O will have a HC job the second the season ends.
 
I could not disagree with him more on this but I really respect Curran's opinion and he is not one to say something just to be different...if the Pats get to 11 or 12 wins with this roster and schedule it will be BB's best coaching performance outside of the first Super Bowl and Billy O will have a HC job the second the season ends.
He's presented his opinion now multiple times in multiple places. Most recently, he's been on BST after the release of the schedule. Felger and others have been trying to figure out how they will get to 5 or 6 wins given their schedule. Curran was undeterred. As he sees things, the defense will have more speed and a better secondary to go with a strong pass rush. Gonzalez is the next Revis or Gilmore. BB will have so many guys that can play all over the field and so many schemes, teams will struggle to figure out what they will be doing from series to series.

O'Brien will get NE scoring 24-27 points every week (and more against teams that are weaker defensively). Mac will be better in Year 3. They have big plans for Thornton. Bourne goes back to being a play maker. Stevenson is a Top 5-10 RB. Special teams will be much better. The offense will have longer drives, more plays, and score more points. The defense will get more rest, not be put in short fields to defend, and everything synergistic-ally will net NE a much better scoring differential. He envisions them only allowing 17-24 ppg against the high scoring teams while NE scores above that each week.

He also said that BUF is trending downward, Rodgers may not be the savior for the Jets, and MIA is a bit Jekyll and Hyde. Everyone else on the panel said the Pats were locked into 4th place . . . Curran didn't rule out competing for the division. Basically, the crop of guys they have had for 2-3 years now are all getting better, and all the offense needed was a real OC. Curran is not usually a rainbows and unicorns kind of a guy, but he is on an island as far as local or national media guys go. He also has been saying for weeks and weeks that Jones is the guy, there was no consideration of drafting another QB, they aren't considering Zappe to start, and there is no QB competition. It's Jones. Period. End of discussion. As the saying goes . . . we'll see what happens.
 
I could not disagree with him more on this but I really respect Curran's opinion and he is not one to say something just to be different...if the Pats get to 11 or 12 wins with this roster and schedule it will be BB's best coaching performance outside of the first Super Bowl and Billy O will have a HC job the second the season ends.
He's presented his opinion now multiple times in multiple places. Most recently, he's been on BST after the release of the schedule. Felger and others have been trying to figure out how they will get to 5 or 6 wins given their schedule. Curran was undeterred. As he sees things, the defense will have more speed and a better secondary to go with a strong pass rush. Gonzalez is the next Revis or Gilmore. BB will have so many guys that can play all over the field and so many schemes, teams will struggle to figure out what they will be doing from series to series.

O'Brien will get NE scoring 24-27 points every week (and more against teams that are weaker defensively). Mac will be better in Year 3. They have big plans for Thornton. Bourne goes back to being a play maker. Stevenson is a Top 5-10 RB. Special teams will be much better. The offense will have longer drives, more plays, and score more points. The defense will get more rest, not be put in short fields to defend, and everything synergistic-ally will net NE a much better scoring differential. He envisions them only allowing 17-24 ppg against the high scoring teams while NE scores above that each week.

He also said that BUF is trending downward, Rodgers may not be the savior for the Jets, and MIA is a bit Jekyll and Hyde. Everyone else on the panel said the Pats were locked into 4th place . . . Curran didn't rule out competing for the division. Basically, the crop of guys they have had for 2-3 years now are all getting better, and all the offense needed was a real OC. Curran is not usually a rainbows and unicorns kind of a guy, but he is on an island as far as local or national media guys go. He also has been saying for weeks and weeks that Jones is the guy, there was no consideration of drafting another QB, they aren't considering Zappe to start, and there is no QB competition. It's Jones. Period. End of discussion. As the saying goes . . . we'll see what happens.

It is not a fluke he is on an island...his path involves everything going perfectly for an average roster and everything going badly for three teams with better overall talent...if BB gets this team to 9 wins with the young talent developing and Mac solidifies himself as a QB you can win with this will be a very successful season.
 
I'll go conservative and say 9-8 with a wildcard berth. I think best case is 12-5 and worst case is 5-12.

Beware what happens to a team when they give their #1 WR a fat contract. I could see Buffalo winning the SB or losing the division and being one and done.
 
Curran tripling and quadrupling down. Radio discussion with others was that NE wouldn’t be playing on wildcard weekend. Curran agreed, which surprised the panel. But Curran indicated the reason they wouldn’t be playing Week 1 of the playoffs was because NE would earn the bye in the AFC and their first game would be the Divisional Round.

Went on to say Bills are weaker and on the decline, Jets still the Jets, and MIA finds ways to come up short. Thinks the Pats could win the division and get the bye. Again said O’Brien will transform the offense and the team is filled with young impact players. Mentioned that teams don’t often finish as they appear in the preseason.

The rest of the crew didn’t know whether to laugh at him or berate him. Curran reiterated that this will be a really good team this year. I fear he is digging a hole he won’t be able to get out of.
 
Curran tripling and quadrupling down. Radio discussion with others was that NE wouldn’t be playing on wildcard weekend. Curran agreed, which surprised the panel. But Curran indicated the reason they wouldn’t be playing Week 1 of the playoffs was because NE would earn the bye in the AFC and their first game would be the Divisional Round.

Went on to say Bills are weaker and on the decline, Jets still the Jets, and MIA finds ways to come up short. Thinks the Pats could win the division and get the bye. Again said O’Brien will transform the offense and the team is filled with young impact players. Mentioned that teams don’t often finish as they appear in the preseason.

The rest of the crew didn’t know whether to laugh at him or berate him. Curran reiterated that this will be a really good team this year. I fear he is digging a hole he won’t be able to get out of.
I'm not that optimistic but NE had the second worst Net Days of Rest vs Opponent last year (-10) and Buffalo had the league's easiest Net Days of Rest (+12). This year the Pats have the toughest strength of schedule but there net days of rest is favorable (+6) while Buffalo is neutral (0). If you're big on these net rest stats, the Jets are supposed to crush it this year with the (+12) advantage Buffalo had last year.

Jets +12
Fish +7
Pats +6
Bills 0

Sharp Analytics Net Rest Edge
 
Cajuste was cut the other day...with their tackle situation very dicey so say the least that is very telling of just how bad he is...he was also the last remaining player on the roster from the 10 draft choices in their 2019 draft.

 
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Went on to say Bills are weaker and on the decline, Jets still the Jets, and MIA finds ways to come up short.
There are many reasons the Patriots should be better on offense, starting with the coach. The same could be said about the Miami defense with Fangio, plus they improved their seconday and LB core. The Bills have improved their offense a little IMO, better at TE, better at run blocking with rookie guard Torrence, Diggs is still elite, new competition at WR 3, and Allen is an MVP candidate. Maybe they won't win 13 games, but I don't see the decline. The Jets improved their worst position dramatically. A tough division.
 
It appears Curran isn't the only one who is predicting good things for NE this season. PFF did their simulations for the upcoming season . . . and the Pats ended up with an 11-6 record. Maybe their analytics are also on hallucinogens.
 
It appears Curran isn't the only one who is predicting good things for NE this season. PFF did their simulations for the upcoming season . . . and the Pats ended up with an 11-6 record. Maybe their analytics are also on hallucinogens.
Lots of faith in BB and his defense. They were top 10 last year, but struggled vs the better offenses, with the exception of the Lions. This year, they face even more good offenses, including 6 divisional games, KC, DAL, PHI, LAC. The NE offense should be better, but I'm not sold on the defense being top 10 again.
 
Add Sports Illustrated to the list of Pats believers. In their bold predictions segment, they have the Patriots winning the AFC East, Rhamondre leading the league in rushing yards, and Christian Gonzalez winning DROY.
 
I just read an AI report that had NE at 6-11 , along with the Packers and bears and some others.. They STILL have no WR's to speak of, and no RB either ( I'm sorry Stevenson is not a good RB). they have a suspect secondary that is going up against some of the best WRs in the NFL in the Afc East, as well as top notch QB talent in same division. They're clearly a step below everyone else. On paper, this is by FAR the worst team in the AFC east. They're not going to sweep the Jets anymore, so that's 2 wins you can take off their record. They can't beat miami, and the bills torch them. They could be 0-6 in the division. It has been a really nice, loooong ride..but it's over now. if they win 8 games, it's a victory for BB.
 
It appears Curran isn't the only one who is predicting good things for NE this season. PFF did their simulations for the upcoming season . . . and the Pats ended up with an 11-6 record. Maybe their analytics are also on hallucinogens.
Speculating a significant improvement over last year's offense isn't a massive stretch given universal disdain for Judge and Patricia. Further speculating a modest improvement in defense (or neutral, sans the 2022 offensive albatross around their necks), and its not hard to see how SOME are projecting a bounce back year. For me, the biggest moving part in the division is seeing whether or not Buffalo will maintain excellence. I'm selling Tua shares and avoiding volatile Rodgers stock....though that's a great play for aggressive investors.
 
WTF. $33M for Parker? What an odd decision. Nobody was paying him like that anywhere in the league. That contract better be one of the nonsense voidable deals.
 
WTF. $33M for Parker? What an odd decision. Nobody was paying him like that anywhere in the league. That contract better be one of the nonsense voidable deals.
The number reported is the max contract value with all sorts of incentives added in. It’s full expected that the actual salary will come in around $6 million a year and the last year is likely a crazy make believe number that he will never see.
 
Curran still sticking to his guns. They had a segment on TV last night where the panel debated what the ceiling was in terms of regular season wins for the Pats this year. Tom said 15 wins (especially if they sign Hopkins). Everyone laughed and thought he was joking . . . but he wasn't. He suggested that if everything clicked, they could win 15 games. He didn't think that would happen, so he predicted they would "only" win 12 games. Whether it be on TV or radio, the other people in conversations with him really don't know how to respond to those types of statements and predictions. He usually goes on to explain better coaching, more buy-in from the roster, players with more experience, Mac emerges (4000+/30+), lockdown defense, a lot fewer mistakes, better special teams = way different season this year. He doesn't care about the schedule. Let's just say that Tom is on a deserted island on this one.
 
Haven't read through but any idea how Mike Giseecki will be employed in the offense?
Nothing concrete I've seen, but one can assume (hope) that BoB will use Henry and Gisecki similarly to how he used Hernandez and Gronk. Obviously, not the same talent at TE, but the same OC.
 
I try not to talk shop with him on his days off, but next time I play basketball with Curran I'm going to ask him how he thinks this team can manage 11 wins with this offensive line.
To my untrained eye this O-line was horrific last season ... and unfortunately, Dante Scarnecchia isn't walking thru that door.
 
I try not to talk shop with him on his days off, but next time I play basketball with Curran I'm going to ask him how he thinks this team can manage 11 wins with this offensive line.
To my untrained eye this O-line was horrific last season ... and unfortunately, Dante Scarnecchia isn't walking thru that door.
Brown showed up to camp early, in shape, and motivated. There has been talk that the team may have promised him a bump in pay or other sweeteners and incentives (keeping his weight down, how many games he plays in, etc.) to keep him motivated. He's in a contract year, so the better he plays, the better chance he gets another contract and more money. Brown, Strange, Andrews, and Onwenu is 4/5 of the way to a decent line. TBA at right tackle is the mystery that needs to be solved. Reiff or McDermott probably aren't the answer. They may have to kick Onwenu outside and play one of the three rookies at guard. (It should be noted that by the end of the season last year, PFF had the NE OL ranked in their Top 5 (!) when they were playing Brown-Strange-Andrews-Onwenu-McDermott. People can say PFF is full of it, but that's how they ranked that unit.)
 
I try not to talk shop with him on his days off, but next time I play basketball with Curran I'm going to ask him how he thinks this team can manage 11 wins with this offensive line.
To my untrained eye this O-line was horrific last season ... and unfortunately, Dante Scarnecchia isn't walking thru that door.

Exactly...everything has to go right for this unit to be at the level they need to be and #1 is Trent Brown being healthy and engaged for 17 games and counting on that has a ton of room for error (as we all saw a few weeks back)....if he goes down or does not feel like giving his all they are in huge trouble because unless they get very lucky (and as you point out this is not the Dante era) RT is already very questionable...there is talk about Onwenu going outside but he is currently dealing with a foot injury and moving him to tackle would probably create a potential issue on the interior but that probably is their best bet with how this current roster is constructed...also, if he goes to tackle that also means they will probably have to pay a lot more to keep him after this year but they do have a ton of cap space next offseason so they can easily keep him if they want...when you look at their draft they used three picks on the interior which I thought was odd when tackle was easily the most pressing need but maybe those picks were made with the hope they will actually replace Onwenu on the interior at a very cheap price while he moves to tackle...if the Pats are to have any hope of being a playoff contender this year this unit will have to be rock-solid because the rest of the O is nothing too special outside of Stevenson...there is definitely a pathway for this unit to be good but I think if a few things go wrong it could be a complete disaster...I just wish there was more depth with legit upside on this unit...will be fascinating to see how this area unfolds.
 
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Sidy Sow is an OL prospect I'm keeping my eyes on. An impressive athlete. A bit on the older side at 25. Played mostly LG but also some LT. Wouldn't be shocked if he sneaks his way into a starting role during the season, maybe kicking Onwenu out to RT.
 
Sidy Sow is an OL prospect I'm keeping my eyes on. An impressive athlete. A bit on the older side at 25. Played mostly LG but also some LT. Wouldn't be shocked if he sneaks his way into a starting role during the season, maybe kicking Onwenu out to RT.

Agreed...he is a guy that has a lot of intrigue but asking him to play T could be a reach...if Onwenu goes to RT Sow has a big opportunity at a position that is a much better fit for him.
 
In the players to keep an eye on, rookie WR Demario Douglas has already been practicing with the starters and has been an early camp standout. That’s the opposite of Boutte, who hasn’t really been all that visible.
 
In the players to keep an eye on, rookie WR Demario Douglas has already been practicing with the starters and has been an early camp standout. That’s the opposite of Boutte, who hasn’t really been all that visible.
Yeah I don’t think Boutte is making the cut, barring an unforseen turn of events. Sad because I liked him as a prospect and was hoping the Pats got a steal. Maybe he finds success on another team, though if Belichick can’t coach him up, who can?
 
In the players to keep an eye on, rookie WR Demario Douglas has already been practicing with the starters and has been an early camp standout. That’s the opposite of Boutte, who hasn’t really been all that visible.
Yeah I don’t think Boutte is making the cut, barring an unforseen turn of events. Sad because I liked him as a prospect and was hoping the Pats got a steal. Maybe he finds success on another team, though if Belichick can’t coach him up, who can?
If no other team loves him then Boutte likely ends up on the practice squad.
 
In the players to keep an eye on, rookie WR Demario Douglas has already been practicing with the starters and has been an early camp standout. That’s the opposite of Boutte, who hasn’t really been all that visible.
Yeah I don’t think Boutte is making the cut, barring an unforseen turn of events. Sad because I liked him as a prospect and was hoping the Pats got a steal. Maybe he finds success on another team, though if Belichick can’t coach him up, who can?
If no other team loves him then Boutte likely ends up on the practice squad.
Good point. Unless he really flashes in preseason I can’t see another team committing a non-PS roster spot to him.
 
Douglas has universally been considered the best player on the field in camp so far. He's been getting open against any defender covering him, and he's been catching passes from anyone throwing to him. I know, I know, who really wants a NE WR in fantasy? But as of now, his ADP shows he is either going as WR100+ or undrafted in most redraft leagues. The point being, he's essentially free at this point. He may not start the season as a starter, but he's been practicing as a starter and seems to excel at the short dump off throws that NE likes to run.
 
I know, I know, who really wants a NE WR in fantasy?

I picked him up off our dynasty wire in an auction for a buck. Large rosters. Who doesn't have room for a potential sleeper when you roster 60 guys (full IDP, so it's not that many) until the season begins? NE slot receivers are nothing to sneeze at when it comes to fantasy production, and I assume he'll play in the slot at 5'8". I got to see a game he played at Liberty against UAB. He looked good enough. What's more important is that he's universally being called the best receiver in camp, though Boutte seems to be making a bit of a splash as the days go on.
 
I try not to talk shop with him on his days off, but next time I play basketball with Curran I'm going to ask him how he thinks this team can manage 11 wins with this offensive line.
To my untrained eye this O-line was horrific last season ... and unfortunately, Dante Scarnecchia isn't walking thru that door.
... all reports out of training camp are cementing my concerns about the offensive line. Jones running for his life ... just like all of last season.
Training camp has barely started and already there are injury concerns there ... and the depth appears to be non-existent.
Not only does poor line play affect every aspect of the offense ... but now the defense is teeing off against inferior competition.
Right now Wise and Uche can get into the backfield with an effort level of a 7... Will they even know how to crank it up to 10 on game day?
 
I try not to talk shop with him on his days off, but next time I play basketball with Curran I'm going to ask him how he thinks this team can manage 11 wins with this offensive line.
To my untrained eye this O-line was horrific last season ... and unfortunately, Dante Scarnecchia isn't walking thru that door.
... all reports out of training camp are cementing my concerns about the offensive line. Jones running for his life ... just like all of last season.
Training camp has barely started and already there are injury concerns there ... and the depth appears to be non-existent.
Not only does poor line play affect every aspect of the offense ... but now the defense is teeing off against inferior competition.
Right now Wise and Uche can get into the backfield with an effort level of a 7... Will they even know how to crank it up to 10 on game day?

If the O line kills the season it is unacceptable…it was a glaring need (especially tackle) going into the off-season and it was not addressed as such…it almost borders on managerial malpractice…would not be surprised to see a trade or two but it could be too little too late…you can see a pathway to the Pats having a solid season but if the O line is an issue they have the potential to have an ugly year.
 
I try not to talk shop with him on his days off, but next time I play basketball with Curran I'm going to ask him how he thinks this team can manage 11 wins with this offensive line.
To my untrained eye this O-line was horrific last season ... and unfortunately, Dante Scarnecchia isn't walking thru that door.
... all reports out of training camp are cementing my concerns about the offensive line. Jones running for his life ... just like all of last season.
Training camp has barely started and already there are injury concerns there ... and the depth appears to be non-existent.
Not only does poor line play affect every aspect of the offense ... but now the defense is teeing off against inferior competition.
Right now Wise and Uche can get into the backfield with an effort level of a 7... Will they even know how to crank it up to 10 on game day?

If the O line kills the season it is unacceptable…it was a glaring need (especially tackle) going into the off-season and it was not addressed as such…it almost borders on managerial malpractice…would not be surprised to see a trade or two but it could be too little too late…you can see a pathway to the Pats having a solid season but if the O line is an issue they have the potential to have an ugly year.
I love Belichick for everything he’s done for the franchise but calling a spade a spade here, he has absolutely mismanaged the roster lately. Get that coveted five year rookie QB contract to have extra money to play with, only to surround that QB with middling talent. Ignored offensive tackle this offseason when it was a glaring hole. Overdrafted on Thornton, a guy who had something like a 5th round grade going in to last year’s draft. Investing a first rounder on a guard who isn’t a Quenton Nelson level unicorn. Willing to spend on Agholor but not Hopkins. Mac is not an agile QB who can throw on the run to make up for breakdowns in pass protection. Belichick knows this and still didn’t properly address it. It’s like self sabotage. I want Belichick to beat Shula’s record badly but this isn’t the way to do it.
 
I try not to talk shop with him on his days off, but next time I play basketball with Curran I'm going to ask him how he thinks this team can manage 11 wins with this offensive line.
To my untrained eye this O-line was horrific last season ... and unfortunately, Dante Scarnecchia isn't walking thru that door.
... all reports out of training camp are cementing my concerns about the offensive line. Jones running for his life ... just like all of last season.
Training camp has barely started and already there are injury concerns there ... and the depth appears to be non-existent.
Not only does poor line play affect every aspect of the offense ... but now the defense is teeing off against inferior competition.
Right now Wise and Uche can get into the backfield with an effort level of a 7... Will they even know how to crank it up to 10 on game day?

If the O line kills the season it is unacceptable…it was a glaring need (especially tackle) going into the off-season and it was not addressed as such…it almost borders on managerial malpractice…would not be surprised to see a trade or two but it could be too little too late…you can see a pathway to the Pats having a solid season but if the O line is an issue they have the potential to have an ugly year.
I love Belichick for everything he’s done for the franchise but calling a spade a spade here, he has absolutely mismanaged the roster lately. Get that coveted five year rookie QB contract to have extra money to play with, only to surround that QB with middling talent. Ignored offensive tackle this offseason when it was a glaring hole. Overdrafted on Thornton, a guy who had something like a 5th round grade going in to last year’s draft. Investing a first rounder on a guard who isn’t a Quenton Nelson level unicorn. Willing to spend on Agholor but not Hopkins. Mac is not an agile QB who can throw on the run to make up for breakdowns in pass protection. Belichick knows this and still didn’t properly address it. It’s like self sabotage. I want Belichick to beat Shula’s record badly but this isn’t the way to do it.

You nailed it…it is just so frustrating because like Patricia last year some of these issues are so obvious to the normal fan how does a legit football genius not see it…it makes no sense.
 
I try not to talk shop with him on his days off, but next time I play basketball with Curran I'm going to ask him how he thinks this team can manage 11 wins with this offensive line.
To my untrained eye this O-line was horrific last season ... and unfortunately, Dante Scarnecchia isn't walking thru that door.
... all reports out of training camp are cementing my concerns about the offensive line. Jones running for his life ... just like all of last season.
Training camp has barely started and already there are injury concerns there ... and the depth appears to be non-existent.
Not only does poor line play affect every aspect of the offense ... but now the defense is teeing off against inferior competition.
Right now Wise and Uche can get into the backfield with an effort level of a 7... Will they even know how to crank it up to 10 on game day?

If the O line kills the season it is unacceptable…it was a glaring need (especially tackle) going into the off-season and it was not addressed as such…it almost borders on managerial malpractice…would not be surprised to see a trade or two but it could be too little too late…you can see a pathway to the Pats having a solid season but if the O line is an issue they have the potential to have an ugly year.
I love Belichick for everything he’s done for the franchise but calling a spade a spade here, he has absolutely mismanaged the roster lately. Get that coveted five year rookie QB contract to have extra money to play with, only to surround that QB with middling talent. Ignored offensive tackle this offseason when it was a glaring hole. Overdrafted on Thornton, a guy who had something like a 5th round grade going in to last year’s draft. Investing a first rounder on a guard who isn’t a Quenton Nelson level unicorn. Willing to spend on Agholor but not Hopkins. Mac is not an agile QB who can throw on the run to make up for breakdowns in pass protection. Belichick knows this and still didn’t properly address it. It’s like self sabotage. I want Belichick to beat Shula’s record badly but this isn’t the way to do it.
Lots of topics to address. Hard to really evaluate the OL so far when every practice they are missing 4 starters. The O line certainly could be a huge problem if all of those players are out at the same time. People can agree with or poo-poo PFF's rankings, but by the end of the season last year, the starting OL group of Brown-Strange-Andrews-Onwenu-McDermott was ranked in the Top 5-10 range. If people aren't sold on McDermott being an option, they could kick Onwenu out to tackle again . . . and IIRC they are also using Sow at tackle. Bottom line, having an actual OL coach should be a huge upgrade over Patricia last year.

As mentioned previously, the team had several holes / needs to fill. They really needed a CB / OT / WR. They went with CB in the first . . . meaning people will gripe they didn't take an OT or a WR. If they took an OT first, people would complain they didn't draft a CB or WR. If they took a WR first, people would complain they didn't draft a CB or OT.

Thornton was a reach, but his issues have mostly been injury related. When he has practiced this camp, it's mostly been in red zone situations . . . which is not his strength as he has no room to operate and stretch the field. He's been out so much that he's been mostly working with the second unit. JJSS has had sessions where he caught every pass and looked every bit as good as Jakobi (or better).

Reports on Gonzalez and the defense have generally been very positive. After years and years of people complaining they had no pass rush, last year they were tied for second in sacks. Judon and Uche combined for 27 sacks. I'm pretty sure they will have the ability to play hard when the lights go on for real.

If they get something out of Douglas or Boutte, then they improved on 2 of the 3 weak spots they had. They still don't have a long-term plan at tackle (which I agree is not a good place to be), but they were able to make it work last year. And having BOB instead of Patricia should be a huge upgrade overall to the offense. People laughed at them for drafting a PK and a P . . . but they needed to fill those spots. Maybe not the best use of resources, but most of the time, picks past the 3rd round are more wishes and prayers.

As for Hopkins, recent history for WR over age 30 hasn't been great. There was only one 1,000 season by a player 31 or older in the past 5 years (Edelman). Nuk's attitude and work ethic is not a fit for NE. He didn't get along great with BOB, and his aversion to practice would infuriate BB. Just because they gave too much money to Agholor doesn't mean they should give too much money to Hopkins. Maybe he does a lot better than recent 31+ year old receivers. He probably could have helped, but he may not have been a huge revelation and savior to the offense. We'll never know.

Yeah, I get it. Not every draft pick has worked out. Strange was an odd pick, but he could still be a long-time starter. But if we detract points for drafting Strange, we have to award points for drafting Onwenu in the 6th round. If we deduct points for drafting Thornton, we should award points for drafting Edelman in the 7th or signing Meyers as an UDFA (or perhaps getting Douglas in the 6th). Mapu in the 3rd is starting to look very shrewd, as was Stevenson in the 4th. But you know what? That's how the draft goes for a lot of teams. Some picks are busts, others are feathers in your cap.

The best team in the league is generally considered to be KC. Here are their first and second round picks since they drafted Mahomes:

Pick 59 - DE Tanoh Kpassagnon . . . No longer with the team
Pick 46 - DT Breeland Speaks . . . Now in the USFL
Pick 56 - WR Mecole Hardman . . . one season with 600 receiving yards out of 4
Pick 63 - S Juan Thornhill . . . rated as an average safety so far
Pick 32 - RB Clyde Edwards-Helaire . . . 1600 rushing yards total in 3 seasons
Pick 63 - LB Willie Gay . . . below average LB that has not had much impact
Pick 58 - LB Nick Bolton . . . has had a lot of tackles but has graded out as an average LB so far
Pick 63 - C Creed Humphrey . . . been excellent so far
Pick 21 - CB Trent McDuffie . . . had an ok rookie season but graded out as above average
Pick 30 - DE George Karlaftis . . . didn't do much as a rookie
Pick 54 - WR Skyy Moore . . . had 22 catches his first year
Pick 62 - S Bryan Cook . . . didn't do much as a rookie

That's 12 players. They have hit on one of them. Others haven't done much so far, and a couple aren't even on the team anymore. If NE had drafted the same guys with the same results, people would be calling for BB's head. Yet the Chiefs won 2 SBs in the past 4 years and were able to draft this group of players with their early picks. Is anyone stomping their feet that the Chiefs can't draft? But they have Mahomes, so that easily deflects how they've drafted. Sounds a lot like NE with Brady in their second run of titles.
 
I try not to talk shop with him on his days off, but next time I play basketball with Curran I'm going to ask him how he thinks this team can manage 11 wins with this offensive line.
To my untrained eye this O-line was horrific last season ... and unfortunately, Dante Scarnecchia isn't walking thru that door.
... all reports out of training camp are cementing my concerns about the offensive line. Jones running for his life ... just like all of last season.
Training camp has barely started and already there are injury concerns there ... and the depth appears to be non-existent.
Not only does poor line play affect every aspect of the offense ... but now the defense is teeing off against inferior competition.
Right now Wise and Uche can get into the backfield with an effort level of a 7... Will they even know how to crank it up to 10 on game day?

If the O line kills the season it is unacceptable…it was a glaring need (especially tackle) going into the off-season and it was not addressed as such…it almost borders on managerial malpractice…would not be surprised to see a trade or two but it could be too little too late…you can see a pathway to the Pats having a solid season but if the O line is an issue they have the potential to have an ugly year.
I love Belichick for everything he’s done for the franchise but calling a spade a spade here, he has absolutely mismanaged the roster lately. Get that coveted five year rookie QB contract to have extra money to play with, only to surround that QB with middling talent. Ignored offensive tackle this offseason when it was a glaring hole. Overdrafted on Thornton, a guy who had something like a 5th round grade going in to last year’s draft. Investing a first rounder on a guard who isn’t a Quenton Nelson level unicorn. Willing to spend on Agholor but not Hopkins. Mac is not an agile QB who can throw on the run to make up for breakdowns in pass protection. Belichick knows this and still didn’t properly address it. It’s like self sabotage. I want Belichick to beat Shula’s record badly but this isn’t the way to do it.
Lots of topics to address. Hard to really evaluate the OL so far when every practice they are missing 4 starters. The O line certainly could be a huge problem if all of those players are out at the same time. People can agree with or poo-poo PFF's rankings, but by the end of the season last year, the starting OL group of Brown-Strange-Andrews-Onwenu-McDermott was ranked in the Top 5-10 range. If people aren't sold on McDermott being an option, they could kick Onwenu out to tackle again . . . and IIRC they are also using Sow at tackle. Bottom line, having an actual OL coach should be a huge upgrade over Patricia last year.

As mentioned previously, the team had several holes / needs to fill. They really needed a CB / OT / WR. They went with CB in the first . . . meaning people will gripe they didn't take an OT or a WR. If they took an OT first, people would complain they didn't draft a CB or WR. If they took a WR first, people would complain they didn't draft a CB or OT.

Thornton was a reach, but his issues have mostly been injury related. When he has practiced this camp, it's mostly been in red zone situations . . . which is not his strength as he has no room to operate and stretch the field. He's been out so much that he's been mostly working with the second unit. JJSS has had sessions where he caught every pass and looked every bit as good as Jakobi (or better).

Reports on Gonzalez and the defense have generally been very positive. After years and years of people complaining they had no pass rush, last year they were tied for second in sacks. Judon and Uche combined for 27 sacks. I'm pretty sure they will have the ability to play hard when the lights go on for real.

If they get something out of Douglas or Boutte, then they improved on 2 of the 3 weak spots they had. They still don't have a long-term plan at tackle (which I agree is not a good place to be), but they were able to make it work last year. And having BOB instead of Patricia should be a huge upgrade overall to the offense. People laughed at them for drafting a PK and a P . . . but they needed to fill those spots. Maybe not the best use of resources, but most of the time, picks past the 3rd round are more wishes and prayers.

As for Hopkins, recent history for WR over age 30 hasn't been great. There was only one 1,000 season by a player 31 or older in the past 5 years (Edelman). Nuk's attitude and work ethic is not a fit for NE. He didn't get along great with BOB, and his aversion to practice would infuriate BB. Just because they gave too much money to Agholor doesn't mean they should give too much money to Hopkins. Maybe he does a lot better than recent 31+ year old receivers. He probably could have helped, but he may not have been a huge revelation and savior to the offense. We'll never know.

Yeah, I get it. Not every draft pick has worked out. Strange was an odd pick, but he could still be a long-time starter. But if we detract points for drafting Strange, we have to award points for drafting Onwenu in the 6th round. If we deduct points for drafting Thornton, we should award points for drafting Edelman in the 7th or signing Meyers as an UDFA (or perhaps getting Douglas in the 6th). Mapu in the 3rd is starting to look very shrewd, as was Stevenson in the 4th. But you know what? That's how the draft goes for a lot of teams. Some picks are busts, others are feathers in your cap.

The best team in the league is generally considered to be KC. Here are their first and second round picks since they drafted Mahomes:

Pick 59 - DE Tanoh Kpassagnon . . . No longer with the team
Pick 46 - DT Breeland Speaks . . . Now in the USFL
Pick 56 - WR Mecole Hardman . . . one season with 600 receiving yards out of 4
Pick 63 - S Juan Thornhill . . . rated as an average safety so far
Pick 32 - RB Clyde Edwards-Helaire . . . 1600 rushing yards total in 3 seasons
Pick 63 - LB Willie Gay . . . below average LB that has not had much impact
Pick 58 - LB Nick Bolton . . . has had a lot of tackles but has graded out as an average LB so far
Pick 63 - C Creed Humphrey . . . been excellent so far
Pick 21 - CB Trent McDuffie . . . had an ok rookie season but graded out as above average
Pick 30 - DE George Karlaftis . . . didn't do much as a rookie
Pick 54 - WR Skyy Moore . . . had 22 catches his first year
Pick 62 - S Bryan Cook . . . didn't do much as a rookie

That's 12 players. They have hit on one of them. Others haven't done much so far, and a couple aren't even on the team anymore. If NE had drafted the same guys with the same results, people would be calling for BB's head. Yet the Chiefs won 2 SBs in the past 4 years and were able to draft this group of players with their early picks. Is anyone stomping their feet that the Chiefs can't draft? But they have Mahomes, so that easily deflects how they've drafted. Sounds a lot like NE with Brady in their second run of titles.

The draft (and just the first two rounds) is not the only way to acquire quality players or address needs…also, when you have Mahomes or Brady you have the luxury of building your team a different way as well as having far more room for error…if you don’t have an elite QB like that you should not build your roster as if you do.
 
The draft (and just the first two rounds) is not the only way to acquire quality players or address needs…also, when you have Mahomes or Brady you have the luxury of building your team a different way as well as having far more room for error…if you don’t have an elite QB like that you should not build your roster as if you do.
I only brought up the first two rounds because there had been some discussion about recent players selected in the first two rounds.

In this day and age, teams are almost eliminated from SB contention without an elite QB. That's just how it is. Of the past 10 SBs, here's the breakdown of QBs:

Brady - 5 appearances (GOAT)
Mahomes - 3 appearances (HOF if not future GOAT)
Peyton - 2 appearances (HOF)
Ryan - 1 appearance (likely HOF)
Wilson - 2 appearances (potential HOF)
Stafford - 1 appearance (borderline HOF)
Newton - 1 appearance (borderline HOF)
Hurts - MVP candidate
Burrow - MVP candidate
Jimmy G / Goff / Foles - Regular Joes

Basically, only 15% of the SB teams in the past 10 seasons made it without a HOF or MVP level QB. (I'm not saying there weren't teams without lesser QBs in the postseason, only that those that that made it to the SB had bigger named players.) As I mentioned before, if a team doesn't have a high impact QB, then the chances are slim of them going far in the playoffs. Even having a top producing QB still may not be enough (Allen, Jackson, Herbert, Rodgers for a decade plus, Prescott as examples of guys that have been productive yet haven't gotten to the SB recently).

I agree with you that NE should be doing things differently with Brady no longer there . . . but I still think it may not make that much difference. Jones will either be "the guy" or he won't. Either way, they should be fielding a top defense and a strong running game as constituted. If they went out and drafted JSN and signed Hopkins instead of what they actually did, then what? They'd be weaker defensively, the offense might be a little better, and chances are they wouldn't be a real competitor anyway. They'd still be weak at OT and would be weak at CB. Kind of like whack a mole. Address one weakness and another one pops up.

No one is saying they don't have holes or weaknesses. They can't just bring guys in at unlimited cost or have unlimited draft picks. There are only so many guys available, and I don't often agree to just sign a high-priced free agent just because you need someone in that spot, nor do I agree that you just draft a guy because they need someone there. For example, they likely felt the 5th OT wasn't as good an option as the #2 CB on the board. Who knows how it will play out.

Bottom line, for me anyway, NE is a borderline playoff team until they find a legit QB. Maybe they sneak in, maybe they don't. Whether they make the playoffs and get steamrolled in the wildcard round or just miss out of a WC really doesn't make that much difference to me. On a side note, Sports Illustrated included NE as one of the teams they considered as SB contenders. I am sure you will strongly disagree . . . but that's what they had to say about this year's team.
 
Patriots' RBs had 7 carries for 6 yards in the 1st Half

Zappe was 10 of 12 for 67 yds

Pats managed 3 points and that was with an interception in Houston territory
Where is Mac Jones?
 
Two observations from last night…one, the Pats may have hit a home run in the second round with White…kid looks the part and looks like a prototype edge player…two, that was a high school level O line last night…if McDermott actually starts for the Pats that will be a train wreck…many of the big names on the line did not play but not sure anyone who played last night can help out in the depth department.
 
Don't see what anybody could take from last night except for what Boston said. Only other thing is encouraging signs from Tyquan Thornton. Nobody played, really.
 
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Just bumped down the RB cause their OL isnt good.

Fair enough. I figured that. It just doesn't seem prudent given that their back-ups played. I'm actually high on Stevenson, Anarchy99's compelling counter-arguments notwithstanding. Sounds like they're really managing his reps in practice with an eye towards workhorse. Yes, we know Bill doesn't do workhorses, but maybe he's seen a Dillon unicorn again.
 

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