Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (6 Viewers)

[Bossman]

Those hoping for a return to top OL play will have to keep hoping for now. Brissett has been taking most of the first team reps, and it sounds like getting the ball snapped properly is a major accomplishment. They were talking about the problem on a couple of radio shows, and it sounded like multiple times each practice someone on the line moves, lines up wrong, jumps offside, or doesn't know the snap count. When someone jumps, they make them run a lap. They've run so many laps that it's impinged on their practice time. Austin Hooper said they have to figure out if they will be a cross-country team or a football team. The rest of the time, live snaps have resulted in a sack about 1 in every 3 plays. I heard Brissett was getting so steamed that they sent Maye in to let Jacoby cool off. Stay tuned for head-to-head practices this week and a Thursday night game against the Eagles. Maye is projected to see a lot more time this game. Maybe they can tell the Philly defensive linemen they can't cross the LOS until they count 5 Mississippi's.

This is ridiculous. They have had O-line issues since Brady's last few seasons here.
Thankfully they drafted a 1st round guard in Cole Strange. He's an above average backup to last years 4th round pick who was starting ahead of him as a rookie.
Hard to believe there was an entire group of Patriots coaches and scouts in that draft room with Belichick ...
and they all agreed, "yeah, lets take Cole Strange here in round 1. Better grab him now because elite guards from Chattanooga don't make it to the 2nd round"
I still remember Sean Mcvay literally laughed out loud when he got the news that Cole Strange was drafted at #29 overall...
"And we wasted our time watching him thinking he'd be at 104 maybe."
Seems like it all went to s*** about the time Dante Scarnecchia retired. Why can no one else coach up an o-line like him?
... or maybe Scarnecchia retired because he realized that turd was beyond polishing.

 

[Boston]

Bedard: Pats offense an 'absolute trainwreck' in joint practice

Greg Bedard breaks down what he calls an “absolute trainwreck” of a performance by the Patriots’ offense during their joint practice with the Eagles.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

Yikes.

Why in the hell don't they get some O line help!?!?!?!?

Agreed...I fully understand that they had a ton of holes throughout the roster and they could not fill them all in one offseason but there is no reason they couldn't at least have added some competent veterans to be a bridge to when they could get some long-term solutions...this unit has a chance to really set them back which you would think is almost impossible given the shape the Pats are already in.

Kingsley Suimataia was a guy I was hoping the Pats were seriously considering at 34 at the time. Would’ve been a reach considering 3 OT’s went before him and he didn’t get taken until 29 picks later. But it pissed me off seeing the Chiefs get him and now he’s starting at LT for them. Can only hope Caeden Wallace rewards their faith in him, because early reports aren’t good for this OL as a whole.

I would like to see them just keep Wallace at RT and develop him there...I think it is very wishful thinking to think he can become the long-term answer at LT...it appears Mike O is going to stay at G so if Wallace develops it is one less hole to fill...overall it would have been nice to trade back into the second to grab Suimataia...they need to figure out a way to get more picks because they really need more draft flexibility...they are in definite contention for the #1 overall pick and hopefully they will be in a position (because they have a young QB) to make one of those sweetheart deals with a team that wants a young QB and stockpile some picks.

 

[Bossman]

Anyone else think this is the end of the line for Reagor and Thornton?
Assuming that NE keeps only 6 WR's ... I'm guessing/ hoping this is the cutoff;

Polk, Ja'Lynn
Bourne, Kendrick
Douglas, DeMario
Osborn, K.J.
Boutte, Kayshon
Baker, Javon
=============
Reagor, Jalen
Thornton, Tyquan
Jackson, JaQuae
Baker, Kawaan
Wallis, David

 

[Anarchy99]

Anyone else think this is the end of the line for Reagor and Thornton?
Assuming that NE keeps only 6 WR's ... I'm guessing/ hoping this is the cutoff;

Polk, Ja'Lynn
Bourne, Kendrick
Douglas, DeMario
Osborn, K.J.
Boutte, Kayshon
Baker, Javon
=============
Reagor, Jalen
Thornton, Tyquan
Jackson, JaQuae
Baker, Kawaan
Wallis, David

I thought Reagor was mostly around as a returner. They just re-signed him at the beginning of the off-season. Thornton has been practicing with the starting unit, so not sure that makes him a cut candidate. Bourne is most likely going to start the season on PUP or IR, so they can put off cutting someone else for now. Six receivers is a lot to carry on the main roster, so they might have to try to get someone on to the practice squad.

 

[Boston]

Anyone else think this is the end of the line for Reagor and Thornton?
Assuming that NE keeps only 6 WR's ... I'm guessing/ hoping this is the cutoff;

Polk, Ja'Lynn
Bourne, Kendrick
Douglas, DeMario
Osborn, K.J.
Boutte, Kayshon
Baker, Javon
=============
Reagor, Jalen
Thornton, Tyquan
Jackson, JaQuae
Baker, Kawaan
Wallis, David

This is pretty much what I would like to see...Polk-Pop-Baker are your three definites...I put Bourne in there as well but good chance he starts off on PUP so that should give someone else a chance to start the season...Jackson-the other Baker-Wallis are your three definite cuts...that leaves Osborn-Boutte-Thornton-Reagor for probably 2 spots...I'd like to keep Boutte as reports have been pretty good about him...especially if Bourne starts on the PUP as it would allow you more time to evaluate him...I keep hearing Reagor will be kept for the return game but with the shape they are in now I don't think that is a reason to make the team...if he doesn't factor in as a real WR I'd rather give that spot to someone who could be here long-term...that leaves Thornton and Osborn and quite honestly I don't think that really matters too much as I don't see either one being part of this team in the future.

 

[Bossman]

Anyone else think this is the end of the line for Reagor and Thornton?
Assuming that NE keeps only 6 WR's ... I'm guessing/ hoping this is the cutoff;

Polk, Ja'Lynn
Bourne, Kendrick
Douglas, DeMario
Osborn, K.J.
Boutte, Kayshon
Baker, Javon
=============
Reagor, Jalen
Thornton, Tyquan
Jackson, JaQuae
Baker, Kawaan
Wallis, David

I thought Reagor was mostly around as a returner. They just re-signed him at the beginning of the off-season. Thornton has been practicing with the starting unit, so not sure that makes him a cut candidate. Bourne is most likely going to start the season on PUP or IR, so they can put off cutting someone else for now. Six receivers is a lot to carry on the main roster, so they might have to try to get someone on to the practice squad.

I could see Thornton to the practice squad. I just don't see him getting off of it and back onto the roster.
Being a recent 2nd round pick probably gives him a little more sticking power.
So something like this;

Polk, Ja'Lynn
Douglas, DeMario
Boutte, Kayshon
Baker, Javon
Osborn, K.J.
Reagor, Jalen
=============
PUP
Bourne, Kendrick
=============
Cut or PS
Thornton, Tyquan
Jackson, JaQuae
Baker, Kawaan
Wallis, David

They'll have a tough decision to make when Bourne comes back. Maybe someone else goes down with injury by then.

 

[kyoun1e]

Luckily there are a couple top LT prospects in the 2025 draft in Campbell and Banks

Aren't there a couple of decent free agents still out there?

If they stand pat, they risk losing a year of development for Maye.

They have the money to spend. Were going to spend it on Ridley and Aiyuk. Pay a damn offensive lineman. ANY offensive lineman.

 

[Bossman]

Luckily there are a couple top LT prospects in the 2025 draft in Campbell and Banks

Aren't there a couple of decent free agents still out there?

If they stand pat, they risk losing a year of development for Maye.

They have the money to spend. Were going to spend it on Ridley and Aiyuk. Pay a damn offensive lineman. ANY offensive lineman.

They already have a bunch of warm bodies ... they need quality.
I don't think they can fix this with a free agent off the street.
I like @Boston idea ... trade that top 3 pick next year to load up on draft picks for that year and next.
Grab a top o-line prospect in the middle of round 1. Also, overpay for the best available vet in free agency next offseason.
There's 2 spots filled.
If they don't figure this o-line out, they're going to ruin Drake Maye the way they ruined Mac Jones.
Jones actually looked decent last week for JAX. Interesting how he is able to perform when he has 2.5 seconds to make a decision.
People will be clamoring mid season for Maye to replace Brissette as the starter. That would be a huge mistake imo.
Let Brissette get pummeled for 17 weeks and then leave him go because "for some reason he's terrible now like Mac Jones was".

 

[Lansdowne]

Luckily there are a couple top LT prospects in the 2025 draft in Campbell and Banks

Aren't there a couple of decent free agents still out there?

If they stand pat, they risk losing a year of development for Maye.

They have the money to spend. Were going to spend it on Ridley and Aiyuk. Pay a damn offensive lineman. ANY offensive lineman.

They already have a bunch of warm bodies ... they need quality.
I don't think they can fix this with a free agent off the street.
I like @Boston idea ... trade that top 3 pick next year to load up on draft picks for that year and next.
Grab a top o-line prospect in the middle of round 1. Also, overpay for the best available vet in free agency next offseason.
There's 2 spots filled.
If they don't figure this o-line out, they're going to ruin Drake Maye the way they ruined Mac Jones.
Jones actually looked decent last week for JAX. Interesting how he is able to perform when he has 2.5 seconds to make a decision.
People will be clamoring mid season for Maye to replace Brissette as the starter. That would be a huge mistake imo.
Let Brissette get pummeled for 17 weeks and then leave him go because "for some reason he's terrible now like Mac Jones was".

Absolutely agree. This needs to be a redshirt year for Maye. He has a lot to work on to build his confidence, and getting him killed behind this offensive line wouldn't be conducive to that. Let Brissett or even Zappe get reps, this is their audition for their next teams. The media would of course interpret it as Maye not being ready, being a bust, etc. but have to ignore that noise. Mac wasn't a special talent by any means but he wasn't protected either or put in any position to truly succeed. As long as they don't make the same mistake with Maye it should be fine. 2024 is going to be a very bad, very ugly season for this team, but it's all about seeing who improves, who needs more seasoning, and who are the foundational players going forward. Embrace the suck in 2024. But they need to start seeing good results next offseason. Can't keep losing out on big names.

 

[Anarchy99]

Let Brissett get pummeled for 17 weeks.

The issue will assuredly be that Brissett won't last 17 games. There will be an ICU bed at Mass General with his name on it. They may have to play all 4 guys they have currently.

 

[Boston]

Let Brissett get pummeled for 17 weeks.

The issue will assuredly be that Brissett won't last 17 games. There will be an ICU bed at Mass General with his name on it. They may have to play all 4 guys they have currently.

They should just go to the wishbone and hope they can at least get 2-3 yards a play…right now if they are passing they are going backwards.

 

[Anarchy99]

Let Brissett get pummeled for 17 weeks.

The issue will assuredly be that Brissett won't last 17 games. There will be an ICU bed at Mass General with his name on it. They may have to play all 4 guys they have currently.

They should just go to the wishbone and hope they can at least get 2-3 yards a play…right now if they are passing they are going backwards.

The passing totals from yesterday's joint practice read like a casualty report in war time. They gave up more sacks than they had completions, they threw multiple interceptions, they muffed a shotgun snap and fumbled on one of the sacks, and there were several drops in the remaining passing plays. Apparently, they didn't do much better running the ball. Let's just say they have plenty of room for improvement.

 

[Boston]

Let Brissett get pummeled for 17 weeks.

The issue will assuredly be that Brissett won't last 17 games. There will be an ICU bed at Mass General with his name on it. They may have to play all 4 guys they have currently.

They should just go to the wishbone and hope they can at least get 2-3 yards a play…right now if they are passing they are going backwards.

The passing totals from yesterday's joint practice read like a casualty report in war time. They gave up more sacks than they had completions, they threw multiple interceptions, they muffed a shotgun snap and fumbled on one of the sacks, and there were several drops in the remaining passing plays. Apparently, they didn't do much better running the ball. Let's just say they have plenty of room for improvement.

Listening to Bedard on the radio was classic…he may be scarred for life with what he saw yesterday…the only good thing is all the youngsters who are used to winning championships now get to know what it was like being a a Pats fan pre-Parcells…it’s been too easy for them.

 

[Lansdowne]

Let Brissett get pummeled for 17 weeks.

The issue will assuredly be that Brissett won't last 17 games. There will be an ICU bed at Mass General with his name on it. They may have to play all 4 guys they have currently.

They should just go to the wishbone and hope they can at least get 2-3 yards a play…right now if they are passing they are going backwards.

The passing totals from yesterday's joint practice read like a casualty report in war time. They gave up more sacks than they had completions, they threw multiple interceptions, they muffed a shotgun snap and fumbled on one of the sacks, and there were several drops in the remaining passing plays. Apparently, they didn't do much better running the ball. Let's just say they have plenty of room for improvement.

Listening to Bedard on the radio was classic…he may be scarred for life with what he saw yesterday…the only good thing is all the youngsters who are used to winning championships now get to know what it was like being a a Pats fan pre-Parcells…it’s been too easy for them.

Yeah I'm one of those who only started following when Drew Bledsoe was drafted. I missed out on the Raymond Berry, Rod Rust, **** MacPherson years. And I think I understand why so many of the Pats fans who remember those years are so against reverting back to the red Pat Patriot era uniforms. I'm personally still very partial to the royal blues with the big Flying Elvis on each shoulder. I feel like the darker navy blue was brought on because of Bill Belichick's affinity for Navy, and feel like when they change the uniform next year it should reflect a change away from the navy blue as well. A brighter blue for a brighter future! Some variation of the 1994 uniform might be nice.

Though don't get me twisted, I think the higher priority should be getting better players. That's the best way to look good.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Let Brissett get pummeled for 17 weeks.

The issue will assuredly be that Brissett won't last 17 games. There will be an ICU bed at Mass General with his name on it. They may have to play all 4 guys they have currently.

They should just go to the wishbone and hope they can at least get 2-3 yards a play…right now if they are passing they are going backwards.

The passing totals from yesterday's joint practice read like a casualty report in war time. They gave up more sacks than they had completions, they threw multiple interceptions, they muffed a shotgun snap and fumbled on one of the sacks, and there were several drops in the remaining passing plays. Apparently, they didn't do much better running the ball. Let's just say they have plenty of room for improvement.

Sounds like the Eagles' practice scenes in Invincible before Vince Papale makes the team.

 

[Anarchy99]

Thankfully they drafted a 1st round guard in Cole Strange. He's an above average backup to last years 4th round pick who was starting ahead of him as a rookie.
Hard to believe there was an entire group of Patriots coaches and scouts in that draft room with Belichick ...

I know a lot of folks have dumped on BB and his recent draft record, but IIRC, a few years ago there was a push to limit how much power Bill had on player evaluation and draft pick selection. At the time, someone other than BB fell in love with athletes and RAS scores. That's how they ended up with guys like Thornton, Strange, Strong, and other guys that scored off the charts in athleticism but seemed like oddball picks where they were selected. While Bill will end up as the guy that drafted these guys, by that point, I don't think Bill was the one putting the draft board together. I would guess other guys did the heavy lifting and evaluating, they found guys that were fast and workout freaks, and it would be Bill's job to teach them how to play and turn into football men. All I know is that whatever plan they put together and whoever was involved, it was an epic failure.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Let Brissett get pummeled for 17 weeks.

The issue will assuredly be that Brissett won't last 17 games. There will be an ICU bed at Mass General with his name on it. They may have to play all 4 guys they have currently.

They should just go to the wishbone and hope they can at least get 2-3 yards a play…right now if they are passing they are going backwards.

The passing totals from yesterday's joint practice read like a casualty report in war time. They gave up more sacks than they had completions, they threw multiple interceptions, they muffed a shotgun snap and fumbled on one of the sacks, and there were several drops in the remaining passing plays. Apparently, they didn't do much better running the ball. Let's just say they have plenty of room for improvement.

Listening to Bedard on the radio was classic…he may be scarred for life with what he saw yesterday…the only good thing is all the youngsters who are used to winning championships now get to know what it was like being a a Pats fan pre-Parcells…it’s been too easy for them.

well said, unfortunately.

 

[Boston]

Let Brissett get pummeled for 17 weeks.

The issue will assuredly be that Brissett won't last 17 games. There will be an ICU bed at Mass General with his name on it. They may have to play all 4 guys they have currently.

They should just go to the wishbone and hope they can at least get 2-3 yards a play…right now if they are passing they are going backwards.

The passing totals from yesterday's joint practice read like a casualty report in war time. They gave up more sacks than they had completions, they threw multiple interceptions, they muffed a shotgun snap and fumbled on one of the sacks, and there were several drops in the remaining passing plays. Apparently, they didn't do much better running the ball. Let's just say they have plenty of room for improvement.

Listening to Bedard on the radio was classic…he may be scarred for life with what he saw yesterday…the only good thing is all the youngsters who are used to winning championships now get to know what it was like being a a Pats fan pre-Parcells…it’s been too easy for them.

Yeah I'm one of those who only started following when Drew Bledsoe was drafted. I missed out on the Raymond Berry, Rod Rust, **** MacPherson years. And I think I understand why so many of the Pats fans who remember those years are so against reverting back to the red Pat Patriot era uniforms. I'm personally still very partial to the royal blues with the big Flying Elvis on each shoulder. I feel like the darker navy blue was brought on because of Bill Belichick's affinity for Navy, and feel like when they change the uniform next year it should reflect a change away from the navy blue as well. A brighter blue for a brighter future! Some variation of the 1994 uniform might be nice.

Though don't get me twisted, I think the higher priority should be getting better players. That's the best way to look good.

I am Ok with the colors...just wish they would bring back Pat Patriot as the primary logo...it's as classic as you get.

 

[Anarchy99]

Judon to the Falcons for a third.

 

[Bossman]

Judon to the Falcons for a third.

Dang. Guess the tank is in full effect before the season even starts.
Embrace the suck!

 

[Boston]

Judon to the Falcons for a third.

I'll take that...he'll be 32 tomorrow and they weren't gonna commit to the $ he was looking for (nor should they)...hopefully they add a few more picks this season and are in a position to cash in on their #1 pick next offseason with a QB-needy team and go into the draft with a ton of picks and draft flexibility...the only way I will be OK with them dealing any picks this year is if it is for a starting level O-lineman.

Good deal for the Falcons...they are in a weak division and could make some real noise if Bijan-London-Pitts perform to the level everyone thinks they can and Judon can be an impact player for them on the other-side of the ball...will be interesting to see the contract they give him.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Oof this team is gonna suck. Over/ under on 4 wins?

 

[RenegadeRoy]

Oof this team is gonna suck. Over/ under on 4 wins?

Give me the under. Their schedule is pretty brutal. I could see them maybe beating the Chargers, Bears, and Jags? Maybe get one on the Jets or Titans? But all those feel like wishful thinking. Hard to figure when I'm not even sure what this offense is going to look like.

 

[Boston]

Perry: A 'prudent' move? Inside Patriots' decision to trade Judon

What led the Patriots to trade their best defensive player? Phil Perry shares his intel on how Matthew Judon ended up in Atlanta.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

Perry: Patriots' return in Judon trade 'shocked' one NFL exec

Did the Patriots get good value for Matthew Judon? Phil Perry shares what he's hearing about the trade that sends Judon to the Falcons.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

 

[Boston]

From Bedard today:

2. What are the options on the offensive line?

The line was so bad across the board against a very good Eagles front (even Mike Onwenu and Sidy Sow had issues) that the coaching and front office staff should have gone into a meeting in the last 24 hours and said, "OK, we need to figure this **** out. This is not good enough."

What are the options?

The tackles have been a huge issue, starting with Calvin Anderson, Vederian Lowe and Chuks Okorafor (to a lesser extent, he was dealing with an injury and was unfairly thrust into the Panthers game with no practice time).

Were there other options? No really. Sorry, Tyron Smith was not coming here and you shouldn't have wanted the oft-injured former star. Jonah Williams signed a two-year, $30 million contract with the Cardinals ($21.5 million is guaranteed of which $19 million is fully guaranteed at signing). He is due to start at right tackle for the Cardinals. You could make the argument that Okorafor was better than Williams last year at a fraction of the cost (PFF grades: 62.4 for Okorafor, 58.5 for Williams; pass-blocking efficiency: 97.5 for Chuks, 96.5 for Williams).

But that's over with. Now, you have to figure out what works.

David Andrews does, although I haven't loved how he's taken a few team periods off (including against the Eagles) recently because it forces Maye to play with Atonio Mafi at center. But that may be an injury consideration.

Owenu does, at right guard or right tackle.

Sow, who has tailed off a little of late, is passable at left guard. And from what I hear, Cole Strange is a long ways off (would be nice to a have a first-round guard out there, no?)

That's about it. It's time to quit screwing around, even if it's too late for Thursday. If the Eagles game goes the way practice did, the Patriots need to start anew on the line:

Onwenu needs to move to right tackle.
Layden Robinson, who has had a great couple of weeks, should get a shot at right guard.
Andrews and Sow stay where they are.
Caeden Wallace and Okorafor should battle it out for left tackle.

As to players available on the street, the Patriots have not yet checked in on Donovan Smith. I don't know about David Bakhtiari. Those are the only two with a shot to hold down left tackle, but they have issues. Smith gets penalized a ton. Bakhtiari can't stay on the field.

 

[Anarchy99]

Oof this team is gonna suck. Over/ under on 4 wins?

I've been suggested they are a 2-win team this offseason, and even that might be too high. Vegas has them as underdogs in every game this season. Yeah, I get it that on any given Sunday . . .

Should be losses: NYJ x 2, BUF x 2, MIA x 2, CIN, SEA, SFO, HOU, JAC, LAR, and IND. That's probably 13 losses right there. Other than the Jets, those teams all were playoff teams or had winning records last year. Barring key injuries on those squads, I'd say the Pats would be unlikely to win those games.
Remaining opponents: TEN, CHI, ARI, LAC. These were 4 last place teams last year. I'm guessing they could win a couple of these, but my confidence level is not that high. IMO, they all got better somehow (FA and draft day additions, new coaches, players returning from injuries, etc.). The chargers had some big salary cap casualties, but many people think bringing in Harbaugh will get them back on track.

That's assuming the Pats are at full strength. If they start catching the injury bug like last season, then even those easier games in the second half on the season could be mountains to climb.

 

[Anarchy99]

From Bedard today:

2. What are the options on the offensive line?

The line was so bad across the board against a very good Eagles front (even Mike Onwenu and Sidy Sow had issues) that the coaching and front office staff should have gone into a meeting in the last 24 hours and said, "OK, we need to figure this **** out. This is not good enough."

What are the options?

The tackles have been a huge issue, starting with Calvin Anderson, Vederian Lowe and Chuks Okorafor (to a lesser extent, he was dealing with an injury and was unfairly thrust into the Panthers game with no practice time).

Were there other options? No really. Sorry, Tyron Smith was not coming here and you shouldn't have wanted the oft-injured former star. Jonah Williams signed a two-year, $30 million contract with the Cardinals ($21.5 million is guaranteed of which $19 million is fully guaranteed at signing). He is due to start at right tackle for the Cardinals. You could make the argument that Okorafor was better than Williams last year at a fraction of the cost (PFF grades: 62.4 for Okorafor, 58.5 for Williams; pass-blocking efficiency: 97.5 for Chuks, 96.5 for Williams).

But that's over with. Now, you have to figure out what works.

David Andrews does, although I haven't loved how he's taken a few team periods off (including against the Eagles) recently because it forces Maye to play with Atonio Mafi at center. But that may be an injury consideration.

Owenu does, at right guard or right tackle.

Sow, who has tailed off a little of late, is passable at left guard. And from what I hear, Cole Strange is a long ways off (would be nice to a have a first-round guard out there, no?)

That's about it. It's time to quit screwing around, even if it's too late for Thursday. If the Eagles game goes the way practice did, the Patriots need to start anew on the line:

Onwenu needs to move to right tackle.
Layden Robinson, who has had a great couple of weeks, should get a shot at right guard.
Andrews and Sow stay where they are.
Caeden Wallace and Okorafor should battle it out for left tackle.

As to players available on the street, the Patriots have not yet checked in on Donovan Smith. I don't know about David Bakhtiari. Those are the only two with a shot to hold down left tackle, but they have issues. Smith gets penalized a ton. Bakhtiari can't stay on the field.

Okorafor at this point should be a backup. Wallace isn't ready to play big snaps in the NFL yet, let alone start. Not much Strange can do rehabbing a serious injury. IMO, the only lineman that's an asset and a lot better than league average is Onwenu (not sure the other guys even meet the league average threshold). They can't clone Onwenu and play him in 5 spots.

The less-than-ideal work around is to use a lot of 12-personnel packages. They could leave one of the TEs in to block, have the RB pick up whoever gets through the line, and run 3-man routes. If there isn't a ton of pressure, the RB could release as a safety valve. But having routes with 4 or 5 targets is doomed to failure at this point . . . there won't be enough time for the play to develop and get the ball out. They can try running a lot of screens, but the issue with passes behind the LOS is opponents should be able to get pressure without blitzing anyone, as the OL is like Swiss cheese right now. If NE gets to the point when they insert Maye into the lineup, if I am a defensive coordinator, I am bringing pressure all game long from just about everywhere. The first half of the season is going to be rough.

 

[Boston]

From Bedard today:

2. What are the options on the offensive line?

The line was so bad across the board against a very good Eagles front (even Mike Onwenu and Sidy Sow had issues) that the coaching and front office staff should have gone into a meeting in the last 24 hours and said, "OK, we need to figure this **** out. This is not good enough."

What are the options?

The tackles have been a huge issue, starting with Calvin Anderson, Vederian Lowe and Chuks Okorafor (to a lesser extent, he was dealing with an injury and was unfairly thrust into the Panthers game with no practice time).

Were there other options? No really. Sorry, Tyron Smith was not coming here and you shouldn't have wanted the oft-injured former star. Jonah Williams signed a two-year, $30 million contract with the Cardinals ($21.5 million is guaranteed of which $19 million is fully guaranteed at signing). He is due to start at right tackle for the Cardinals. You could make the argument that Okorafor was better than Williams last year at a fraction of the cost (PFF grades: 62.4 for Okorafor, 58.5 for Williams; pass-blocking efficiency: 97.5 for Chuks, 96.5 for Williams).

But that's over with. Now, you have to figure out what works.

David Andrews does, although I haven't loved how he's taken a few team periods off (including against the Eagles) recently because it forces Maye to play with Atonio Mafi at center. But that may be an injury consideration.

Owenu does, at right guard or right tackle.

Sow, who has tailed off a little of late, is passable at left guard. And from what I hear, Cole Strange is a long ways off (would be nice to a have a first-round guard out there, no?)

That's about it. It's time to quit screwing around, even if it's too late for Thursday. If the Eagles game goes the way practice did, the Patriots need to start anew on the line:

Onwenu needs to move to right tackle.
Layden Robinson, who has had a great couple of weeks, should get a shot at right guard.
Andrews and Sow stay where they are.
Caeden Wallace and Okorafor should battle it out for left tackle.

As to players available on the street, the Patriots have not yet checked in on Donovan Smith. I don't know about David Bakhtiari. Those are the only two with a shot to hold down left tackle, but they have issues. Smith gets penalized a ton. Bakhtiari can't stay on the field.

Okorafor at this point should be a backup. Wallace isn't ready to play big snaps in the NFL yet, let alone start. Not much Strange can do rehabbing a serious injury. IMO, the only lineman that's an asset and a lot better than league average is Onwenu (not sure the other guys even meet the league average threshold). They can't clone Onwenu and play him in 5 spots.

The less-than-ideal work around is to use a lot of 12-personnel packages. They could leave one of the TEs in to block, have the RB pick up whoever gets through the line, and run 3-man routes. If there isn't a ton of pressure, the RB could release as a safety valve. But having routes with 4 or 5 targets is doomed to failure at this point . . . there won't be enough time for the play to develop and get the ball out. They can try running a lot of screens, but the issue with passes behind the LOS is opponents should be able to get pressure without blitzing anyone, as the OL is like Swiss cheese right now. If NE gets to the point when they insert Maye into the lineup, if I am a defensive coordinator, I am bringing pressure all game long from just about everywhere. The first half of the season is going to be rough.

It was obvious last off-season that the O-line was not in good shape and it is beyond obvious it will not be better and most likely worst this year…I do have hope for Robinson…I think he ends up being a better player than Strange who was vastly over-drafted for no apparent reason.

 

[Anarchy99]

I think he ends up being a better player than Strange who was vastly over-drafted for no apparent reason.

I mentioned this earlier. After the debacle known as N'Keal Harry, there was big blowback internally about Bill having too much control over the draft (BB basically told everyone else they were picked Harry and that was the end of it). That's when they started targeting more athletic players with crazy RAS scores as their fundamental strategy. They wanted guys that were the highest scoring players at their positions in the draft, no matter where they came from, and they opted to draft them way too early. I don't believe this was a Bill thing. That's when they brought in Eliot Wolf and gave Matt Groh a bigger role. That's how they ended up with guys like Dugger, Asiasi, Perkins, McGrone, Thornton, Strange, Jack Jones, Strong, Mapu, etc. That's one of the reasons I am less excited by the Wolf - Groh Collective running the scouting and draft these days. But way too soon to tell for this year's crop of players.

 

[Boston]

I think he ends up being a better player than Strange who was vastly over-drafted for no apparent reason.

I mentioned this earlier. After the debacle known as N'Keal Harry, there was big blowback internally about Bill having too much control over the draft (BB basically told everyone else they were picked Harry and that was the end of it). That's when they started targeting more athletic players with crazy RAS scores as their fundamental strategy. They wanted guys that were the highest scoring players at their positions in the draft, no matter where they came from, and they opted to draft them way too early. I don't believe this was a Bill thing. That's when they brought in Eliot Wolf and gave Matt Groh a bigger role. That's how they ended up with guys like Dugger, Asiasi, Perkins, McGrone, Thornton, Strange, Jack Jones, Strong, Mapu, etc. That's one of the reasons I am less excited by the Wolf - Groh Collective running the scouting and draft these days. But way too soon to tell for this year's crop of players.

Sorry but the buck always stopped with BB…not saying Wolf is the answer but no way did BB not have the final say.

 

[Lansdowne]

I think he ends up being a better player than Strange who was vastly over-drafted for no apparent reason.

I mentioned this earlier. After the debacle known as N'Keal Harry, there was big blowback internally about Bill having too much control over the draft (BB basically told everyone else they were picked Harry and that was the end of it). That's when they started targeting more athletic players with crazy RAS scores as their fundamental strategy. They wanted guys that were the highest scoring players at their positions in the draft, no matter where they came from, and they opted to draft them way too early. I don't believe this was a Bill thing. That's when they brought in Eliot Wolf and gave Matt Groh a bigger role. That's how they ended up with guys like Dugger, Asiasi, Perkins, McGrone, Thornton, Strange, Jack Jones, Strong, Mapu, etc. That's one of the reasons I am less excited by the Wolf - Groh Collective running the scouting and draft these days. But way too soon to tell for this year's crop of players.

I wonder about this. Because if RAS is their top metric then they’d have logically gone Adonai Mitchell at 37 (9.99 RAS) over Ja’Lynn Polk (9.11 RAS).

 

[Anarchy99]

I wonder about this. Because if RAS is their top metric then they’d have logically gone Adonai Mitchell at 37 (9.99 RAS) over Ja’Lynn Polk (9.11 RAS).

I don't know if that's their first evaluation criteria, but it seems like they are trying a lot more to target and draft more athletic players with high RAS scores. I don't know enough about Mitchell, but maybe they liked Polk's fit better, maybe they found some off field stuff they didn't love with Mitchell, maybe they spoke to Polk and he knocked their socks off. Hard to know the why's about things sometimes. Bill definitely liked guys he would describe as good football players. We can debate if he even reviewed some of the RAS scoring and metrics for players or not. If he did, it had to be more recently.

 

[Bossman]

Watching the o-line struggle so badly last year, I was wondering why they didn't use a 6 man o-line at times.
I've seen other teams do it, situationally of course, but it made so much sense when I pondered it ...
The Pats QB doesn't have enough time to get to his 3rd read, never mind his 4th and 5th ...
why not take out a WR and play 6 linemen? Give the QB 4 targets instead of 5 and give those 4 guys time to get open.
Also gives the running game a little more punch. At least until the defense adjusts to it.
I'm no expert but in my mind this makes total sense ... especially when nothing else is working.

 

[Boston]

O actually looks semi-competent than Brissett with an ugly interception in the end zone...Okorafor at RT does not look good...Reagor with a nice punt return and reception...Stevenson running hard so far...nice first series for the D.

 

[Anarchy99]

Starting WR group is still Douglas, Osborn, and Thornton (as it has been all camp when they were all available).

 

[Boston]

Starting WR group is still Douglas, Osborn, and Thornton (as it has been all camp when they were all available).

McCourty just questioning that.

 

[kyoun1e]

Boutte has skills. He better make this team.

Maye flashing a lot of the reasons why we drafted him. Good showing on the first drive.

 

[JohnnyU]

Boutte has skills. He better make this team.

Maye flashing a lot of the reasons why we drafted him. Good showing on the first drive.

Boutte isn’t out of the league?

 

[kyoun1e]

Boutte has skills. He better make this team.

Maye flashing a lot of the reasons why we drafted him. Good showing on the first drive.

Boutte isn’t out of the league?

Forget the details. I believe his last encounter with the law was dismissed maybe. Anarchy will know.

 

[Anarchy99]

Gambling charges dropped against Patriots' Kayshon Boutte; NFL says matter 'remains under review'

 

[Boston]

This is actually watchable...Maye looking the part (very encouraging)...nice play by Polk...D looks fast and aggressive...White has a chance to be a real good one...Hawkins looked good early, seems to be very active...baby steps.

 

[kyoun1e]

This is actually watchable...Maye looking the part (very encouraging)...nice play by Polk...D looks fast and aggressive...White has a chance to be a real good one...Hawkins looked good early, seems to be very active...baby steps.

Agree.

Oh boy. This is the flash we were hoping to see. It's clear he's so much more dynamic than Brissett.

Pats nation will be looking for him to start sooner rather than later. Poor kid.

 

[Boston]

This is actually watchable...Maye looking the part (very encouraging)...nice play by Polk...D looks fast and aggressive...White has a chance to be a real good one...Hawkins looked good early, seems to be very active...baby steps.

Agree.

Oh boy. This is the flash we were hoping to see. It's clear he's so much more dynamic than Brissett.

Pats nation will be looking for him to start sooner rather than later. Poor kid.

Obviously a small sample but watching this gives me a little faith they know what they are doing with him.

 

[kyoun1e]

This is actually watchable...Maye looking the part (very encouraging)...nice play by Polk...D looks fast and aggressive...White has a chance to be a real good one...Hawkins looked good early, seems to be very active...baby steps.

Agree.

Oh boy. This is the flash we were hoping to see. It's clear he's so much more dynamic than Brissett.

Pats nation will be looking for him to start sooner rather than later. Poor kid.

Obviously a small sample but watching this gives me a little faith they know what they are doing with him.

At least after watching this, Tom E. Curran won't be foaming at the mouth tmrw.

 

[Boston]

I like having Hightower on the sideline.

 

[Boston]

Baker can't hold on to it but that was a #3 pick in the draft throw.

 

[kyoun1e]

This is actually watchable...Maye looking the part (very encouraging)...nice play by Polk...D looks fast and aggressive...White has a chance to be a real good one...Hawkins looked good early, seems to be very active...baby steps.

Agree.

Oh boy. This is the flash we were hoping to see. It's clear he's so much more dynamic than Brissett.

Pats nation will be looking for him to start sooner rather than later. Poor kid.

Obviously a small sample but watching this gives me a little faith they know what they are doing with him.

At least after watching this, Tom E. Curran won't be foaming at the mouth tmrw.

Well, if you watched Felger and Curran post game it's clear that the drum beating will begin for Maye to start.

Felger hilariously kept saying on Brissett "He sucks." lol.

I personally hope Brissett plays the first four games -- @CINC, SEA, @NYJ, @SF. Keep Maye out of harms way the first four games...especially against the Jets and Niners...and then let him land in week 5 at home against Miami.

Thank god after yesterday there's a glimmer of hope. After the Bedard report on practices I was fearing the total worst.

 

[Boston]

This is actually watchable...Maye looking the part (very encouraging)...nice play by Polk...D looks fast and aggressive...White has a chance to be a real good one...Hawkins looked good early, seems to be very active...baby steps.

Agree.

Oh boy. This is the flash we were hoping to see. It's clear he's so much more dynamic than Brissett.

Pats nation will be looking for him to start sooner rather than later. Poor kid.

Obviously a small sample but watching this gives me a little faith they know what they are doing with him.

At least after watching this, Tom E. Curran won't be foaming at the mouth tmrw.

Well, if you watched Felger and Curran post game it's clear that the drum beating will begin for Maye to start.

Felger hilariously kept saying on Brissett "He sucks." lol.

I personally hope Brissett plays the first four games -- @CINC, SEA, @NYJ, @SF. Keep Maye out of harms way the first four games...especially against the Jets and Niners...and then let him land in week 5 at home against Miami.

Thank god after yesterday there's a glimmer of hope. After the Bedard report on practices I was fearing the total worst.

The biggest thing yesterday accomplished is it stopped the bleeding (at least short-term)...the press has been deservedly brutal the past few days...even the biggest Pats fan with blinders on should understand this is going to be a tough season, even in a very best-case scenario I do not see anything other than a bad record...there are far too many holes on the roster and a first-year HC...the fear after the joint practice was this wasn't going to be a bad season but a total debacle...it still could be but at least for now there is at least some hope that this can be the beginning of turning things around and we start seeing some things that give optimism for the future.

As for Maye...after watching the progress last night I'm willing to defer to the staff on what they are doing because we just saw some tangible results...I do think he needs to play at some point this season because I think the ultimate goal should be to have him ready to be the no-questions starter week 1 next year which would give them reason for hope this offseason which they need if they are going to lure some legit free agents.

 

[Anarchy99]

As for Maye...after watching the progress last night I'm willing to defer to the staff on what they are doing because we just saw some tangible results...I do think he needs to play at some point this season because I think the ultimate goal should be to have him ready to be the no-questions starter week 1 next year which would give them reason for hope this offseason which they need if they are going to lure some legit free agents.

Bert Breer is pretty insistent that Patriots brass has no intention of playing Maye this season. He apparently is tight with Mayo and Wolf, and for now that appears to be their plan heading into the season (subject to change, of course).

As for how things went last night, if Maye looked incompetent that would have been bad. He looked ok and flashed a couple of times. The deep drop by Baker was a good throw. Being able to have a QB run the ball in by design (not a QB sneak) was good to see. Overall, though, Maye played against a couple of Eagles second teamers and mostly third string guys and against vanilla defense schemes. Against that flotsam and jetsam, rag-tag group of defenders, the offense could only muster 159 total yards of offense (2.9 yards per play) with 2 turnovers. Last season, they averaged 4.6 yards per play. No one should be overjoyed with how they looked. If they played an actual game against the Eagles, the score could easily have been 42-3.

 

[Boston]

As for Maye...after watching the progress last night I'm willing to defer to the staff on what they are doing because we just saw some tangible results...I do think he needs to play at some point this season because I think the ultimate goal should be to have him ready to be the no-questions starter week 1 next year which would give them reason for hope this offseason which they need if they are going to lure some legit free agents.

Bert Breer is pretty insistent that Patriots brass has no intention of playing Maye this season. He apparently is tight with Mayo and Wolf, and for now that appears to be their plan heading into the season (subject to change, of course).

As for how things went last night, if Maye looked incompetent that would have been bad. He looked ok and flashed a couple of times. The deep drop by Baker was a good throw. Being able to have a QB run the ball in by design (not a QB sneak) was good to see. Overall, though, Maye played against a couple of Eagles second teamers and mostly third string guys and against vanilla defense schemes. Against that flotsam and jetsam, rag-tag group of defenders, the offense could only muster 159 total yards of offense (2.9 yards per play) with 2 turnovers. Last season, they averaged 4.6 yards per play. No one should be overjoyed with how they looked. If they played an actual game against the Eagles, the score could easily have been 42-3.

Maye is the future...if he is legit they can move forward...I don't have any issues sitting him although I do think it would help him to play a few games at the end of the season unless the O line is so bad it's literally not safe.

I don't think anyone is overjoyed by last night...as opposed to last year when the "in Bill we Trust" crew somehow thought they were good (when it was obvious they weren't) expectations are very low this year (and that is probably being kind)...it's all about building a foundation for the future and last night they at least looked like a football team after what happened on Tuesday...that being said it is going to be ugly this year, there is no way around it...if Maye and the other youngsters develop and Mayo can navigate thru this debacle without losing the locker-room there can be hope next offseason but there is no way they aren't taking their lumps this year.