Nick Caley could bring a bit of new and old. Worked with NE before and is now the passing game coach under McVay.
Doubt any of the hot OCs will be interested in moving laterally.
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Doubt any of the hot OCs will be interested in moving laterally.
Boston
Footballguy
Agreed about the lateral move...Caley's name has been floated around the last two years...they passed on him once and he turned them down once...is the third time the charm...gotta believe this will now be a desirable job...you have a bad offense with a potential franchise QB and quality HC known as a defensive guy...the new OC has a great opportunity to look good quickly and use this as a springboard for a HC job...it is gonna be important that there is a lot of solid offensive coaching on the staff because if they don't go with McDaniels you could be looking at an HC they may only have for 2 or 3 years.
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The Titans roster was turned over 60 percent the last two years.
There's about thirty Titans that are free agents and about thirty on other teams that are former Titans that signed one year deals.
None of them are exciting.
It is probably a big deal though as whatever holes the Pats DEPTH has, can be easily filled with players that know his system.
I saw last night 22 of them are in the playoffs so maybe that means something.
It's just a very unusual high amount.
There's about thirty Titans that are free agents and about thirty on other teams that are former Titans that signed one year deals.
None of them are exciting.
It is probably a big deal though as whatever holes the Pats DEPTH has, can be easily filled with players that know his system.
I saw last night 22 of them are in the playoffs so maybe that means something.
It's just a very unusual high amount.
Boston
Footballguy
Josh McCown is an interesting name. I guess he coached Maye in high school?
This is what we are getting in Vrabel:
x.com
x.com
He will make a lot of Patriot fans happy with that attitude...as we have seen a personality like Pete Carroll or Jerod Mayo is probably not the best fit in this market.
Vrabel is not tolerant.
The Titans got rid of players they needed because they were often injured and he got sick of it
(You can probably name some oft injured guys right now. They're gone)
He's tough and you'll notice he singles out a few that aren't.
(You probably know a couple of these. They're gone too)
That stuff I read recently about their rookie WR- oof good luck to him being on the 53. Since the Pats need WRs and can't afford to cut him, Vrabel will ride him all camp like it's 1960 and he's gonna make something out of him.
Stevenson fumbling- he'll do something that'll be old school too like making him carry the ball everywhere. He'll run a ton of drills with LBs punching at the ball. He won't keep that being a problem and that's part of what's likable about him. You know. You just know that he's gonna address every issue.
Y'all know him already. Smart, less athletic than some, but makes up for it with intelligence, gives every drop of energy he has- this is his default. You'll notice it soon enough when talking which 53 make the team from the 90. Questionable draft choices will have writeups that discuss toughness and intelligence. You'll notice it. It's comforting in an easy to follow type way.
The Titans have a few ILBs that are like he was as a player- to some degree- and the Titans have like 18 ILBs (seriously) so I'm sure they're easily available. Jack Gibbens that is so smart he gave him the nickname doc due to his intelligence...yeah he's probably a Patriot.
Here's a good example- when I wondered if Gibbens was starting and he gave him the doc nickname, then I knew. Your familiarity with Vrabel will stir up just like that. Something's ya just have no doubt about.
I don't like these ILB types. Yes they are everywhere. Yes they are great at diagnosing a play and where to be. But they're slowish so they're there late. I contend that a normal or fast speed LB would have hit a back at the LOS not four yards past it. Sooo you're gonna have this problem too. It's not like he's gonna stop.
During his time in Tennessee, the Titans had more than 140 LB transactions. It's an OMG number. It's coach picking at his old position and it's annoying. There's 53 to worry about and you can live with it though.
He lets the OC do his thing. Possibly to a fault but he let Downing and Kelly and Lafleur mess up and make bonehead calls. This also allowed Arthur to "blossom" into a (once) top play caller. Lafleur calling a game winning carry for the third string TE backup FB was brutal. Kelly not calling much for Henry was too. The Arthur days were good though and a lot of fun.
He knows defensive coaching and he'll load up the staff and he doesn't really meddle there in game either.
Ya usually see him coaching on the sideline- mentioning leverage or hand placement or a tablet and assume look at this. He's not a meddler.
Bowen (if IF) knows the Pats great teams curiously well and you'll probably have the same experience I did. Is this former Texans DC talking of the Pats bend but don't break defense? When was he there? What? I simply imagine it's all the time watching tape with Vrabel. You'll hear it too
Never forget Vrabel is the alpha because his ego will surely remind you. Idk how but you'll soon know what I mean
Enjoy all the familiarity guys. It's good for the off-season. In season, til the team is built up, because of that familiarity, you'll know this negative is about to happen and ugh.
The Titans got rid of players they needed because they were often injured and he got sick of it
(You can probably name some oft injured guys right now. They're gone)
He's tough and you'll notice he singles out a few that aren't.
(You probably know a couple of these. They're gone too)
That stuff I read recently about their rookie WR- oof good luck to him being on the 53. Since the Pats need WRs and can't afford to cut him, Vrabel will ride him all camp like it's 1960 and he's gonna make something out of him.
Stevenson fumbling- he'll do something that'll be old school too like making him carry the ball everywhere. He'll run a ton of drills with LBs punching at the ball. He won't keep that being a problem and that's part of what's likable about him. You know. You just know that he's gonna address every issue.
Y'all know him already. Smart, less athletic than some, but makes up for it with intelligence, gives every drop of energy he has- this is his default. You'll notice it soon enough when talking which 53 make the team from the 90. Questionable draft choices will have writeups that discuss toughness and intelligence. You'll notice it. It's comforting in an easy to follow type way.
The Titans have a few ILBs that are like he was as a player- to some degree- and the Titans have like 18 ILBs (seriously) so I'm sure they're easily available. Jack Gibbens that is so smart he gave him the nickname doc due to his intelligence...yeah he's probably a Patriot.
Here's a good example- when I wondered if Gibbens was starting and he gave him the doc nickname, then I knew. Your familiarity with Vrabel will stir up just like that. Something's ya just have no doubt about.
I don't like these ILB types. Yes they are everywhere. Yes they are great at diagnosing a play and where to be. But they're slowish so they're there late. I contend that a normal or fast speed LB would have hit a back at the LOS not four yards past it. Sooo you're gonna have this problem too. It's not like he's gonna stop.
During his time in Tennessee, the Titans had more than 140 LB transactions. It's an OMG number. It's coach picking at his old position and it's annoying. There's 53 to worry about and you can live with it though.
He lets the OC do his thing. Possibly to a fault but he let Downing and Kelly and Lafleur mess up and make bonehead calls. This also allowed Arthur to "blossom" into a (once) top play caller. Lafleur calling a game winning carry for the third string TE backup FB was brutal. Kelly not calling much for Henry was too. The Arthur days were good though and a lot of fun.
He knows defensive coaching and he'll load up the staff and he doesn't really meddle there in game either.
Ya usually see him coaching on the sideline- mentioning leverage or hand placement or a tablet and assume look at this. He's not a meddler.
Bowen (if IF) knows the Pats great teams curiously well and you'll probably have the same experience I did. Is this former Texans DC talking of the Pats bend but don't break defense? When was he there? What? I simply imagine it's all the time watching tape with Vrabel. You'll hear it too
Never forget Vrabel is the alpha because his ego will surely remind you. Idk how but you'll soon know what I mean
Enjoy all the familiarity guys. It's good for the off-season. In season, til the team is built up, because of that familiarity, you'll know this negative is about to happen and ugh.
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Pat Kirwan was talking about Wolf and possibly Vrabel just the other day. IIRC it was a Parcells and Belichick connection and if Wolf doesn't stay he'll land where Aaron Glenn does.
Jon Robinson would certainly be Vrabel's suggested replacement
One of JRob's guys. Could be Trojan horse move to get JRob there too.
@CharlesRobinson
I’m hearing #Giants personnel advisor Ryan Cowden is expected to be added to the #Patriots personnel mix, but not with a GM title. I believe Eliot Wolf will retain personnel power. However Cowden’s addition to the front office is Vrabel’s preference. Dynamics will be interesting.
******
Monti is Arizona's GM. JRob built a great staff in TEN before imploding. There are several that were under him like these two.
A small network for backup player swaps is about what it's become
@CharlesRobinson
I’m hearing #Giants personnel advisor Ryan Cowden is expected to be added to the #Patriots personnel mix, but not with a GM title. I believe Eliot Wolf will retain personnel power. However Cowden’s addition to the front office is Vrabel’s preference. Dynamics will be interesting.
******
Monti is Arizona's GM. JRob built a great staff in TEN before imploding. There are several that were under him like these two.
A small network for backup player swaps is about what it's become
Boston
Footballguy
Bruschi calls out Patriots front office in reaction to Vrabel hire
Ex-Patriots linebacker Tedy Bruschi had something to get off his chest while reacting to Mike Vrabel becoming the team's new head coach.
www.nbcsportsboston.com
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Pats players miffed
Kind of funny that some players were miffed at how things were handled. Yeah……..don’t get too comfortable.
Kind of funny that some players were miffed at how things were handled. Yeah……..don’t get too comfortable.
My favorite Vrabel moment
x.com
C Ben Jones had played thru one injury after another and often limped to the sidelines and clearly "running on fumes," he somehow found a way to make a huge block late.
Vrabel will surely refer to this as what he expects of players.
Yeah it's too extreme and a bit unreasonable, but coaches gotta do their thing too.
Also, a former Texan, an example of his loyalty too
x.com
x.com
C Ben Jones had played thru one injury after another and often limped to the sidelines and clearly "running on fumes," he somehow found a way to make a huge block late.
Vrabel will surely refer to this as what he expects of players.
Yeah it's too extreme and a bit unreasonable, but coaches gotta do their thing too.
Also, a former Texan, an example of his loyalty too
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Alright Mike, draft me Abdul-Carter
Agree.
Think the two O lineman aren't worth a top 5 pick and neither is the AZ WR.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Draft war room is going to be great
Vrabel- Does anyone have anything else to add about this pick?
Wolf- …….raises hand…..
Vrabel- Nobody? Ok…….selection made
Vrabel- Does anyone have anything else to add about this pick?
Wolf- …….raises hand…..
Vrabel- Nobody? Ok…….selection made
Boston
Footballguy
IMO protecting Maye and getting him weapons are the most important things...if they don't develop Maye correctly it won't matter how good Carter is.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
I just don’t think either tackle is on par with guys who have been picked that high in previous years. Given their track record, I’d rather they trade for an experienced WR. I’d rather they get a game changer than a starter, no matter the position.
Boston
Footballguy
I think it all comes down to what they think McMillan, Hunter, Banks and Campbell are...if they think they can be elite than one of them is a no-brainer...if not then you have to look at Carter or Johnson because I do agree you can't use the #4 on just a solid starter...as long as they feel he's legit McMillan is the guy I hope they end up with...getting a potential #1 WR to grow with Maye would just give you so much flexibility going forward.
Consensus as of now is that the two O Lineman have issues and are not slam dunks by any means. Think the same is though of McMillan.
Hunter, Carter, and Graham I believe are considered blue chip talents in a first round that may only have 12 ish that are sure fire first round graded.
I say get Hunter or Carter/Graham, build depth at the other positions after, and go after OT and WR in free agency. Hard. Would love to see Godwin here. F Tee Higgins. Vrabel would toss that guy out of the stadium the second time he leaves a game due to a soft tissue injury.
Boston
Footballguy
If you can get it done in FA then I have zero issues drafting defense...I will be a broken record but the most important thing for this franchise (especially now that they have a competent HC) is developing Maye and IMO there isn't even a close second...well, getting rid of Wolf is probably a close second.
If not Bowen then Schwartz should be the DC favorite in the same "create a title promotion" vein.
He went thru personal troubles and worked for the league out of an office the Titans let him use. He WAS there when JRob and Vrabel were. He's very close to Vrabel and JRob and IIRC they're even all neighbors.
Unlike Bowen, I think Schwartz is a better hire to shush a fanbase probably ready to suggest a zillion former DCs are a better option than Bowen. He also brings instant credibility and a Pats history. Not to mention him setting Vrabel up in Cleveland.
He went thru personal troubles and worked for the league out of an office the Titans let him use. He WAS there when JRob and Vrabel were. He's very close to Vrabel and JRob and IIRC they're even all neighbors.
Unlike Bowen, I think Schwartz is a better hire to shush a fanbase probably ready to suggest a zillion former DCs are a better option than Bowen. He also brings instant credibility and a Pats history. Not to mention him setting Vrabel up in Cleveland.
Wes Welker was let go by the Dolphins a week or so ago.
I'd give ya that their WRs underperformed but I thought that was injuries and QB situation. I don't recall him being praised when they had two top WRs.
Anywho....any interest in bringing him to be the Pats WR coach?
I'd give ya that their WRs underperformed but I thought that was injuries and QB situation. I don't recall him being praised when they had two top WRs.
Anywho....any interest in bringing him to be the Pats WR coach?
The Titans seem to have been in the market for a T for ten years and often failed.
I think "ya know what people are describing? The guy that doesn't pan out at LT so he plays RT."
A Texas kid is the top one. I've seen him a number of times. He doesn't stand out. Latham had feet that- I'm no evaluator but- I can tell look at him move. I don't think the Texas kid is bad but I don't think top 10 pick by watching him.
They have a G that also declared. He stands out. He knocks people down and has great moments. They have a back that declared and his name makes me think of highlights of this G.
Matt Miller has mentioned some Gs catching his eye. I think all of us bad teams "have to" take a G. Tackles will have to be in free agency or we'll continue to be bad and take tackles that don't pan out as expected. Ya know, don't manufacture something- just take a known good player (in a round suitable for a guard)
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Not including Jerod Mayo, who was locked in contractually, that is the fastest head coaching hire by any team since Washington hired Ron Rivera on Dec. 31, 2019, two days after the season.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Lots of folks suggest NE can just reel in the best free agent WR and OL players that are available. To that, I say, sure . . . go for it. But this is NE we are talking about. How likely is that to happen? It was easy to find all the free agents NE signed over the past 8 seasons. Here's who they signed as FA's at those positions . . . I don't see many impact signings, big investments, or guys that were at the top of the market. Note that these are free agent signings (not UDFA signings or players they plucked off someone else's practice squad).
WR: K.J. Osborn, Matt Landers, JuJu Smith-Schuster, Jalen Reagor, Ty Montgomery, Lil'Jordan Humphrey, Josh Hammond, Nelson Agholor, Kendrick Bourne, Marvin Hall, Devin Ross, Malcolm Perry, Damiere Byrd, Marqise Lee, Will Hastings, Isaiah Zuber, Andre Baccelia, Blake Ellington, Maurice Harris, Demaryius Thomas, Dontrelle Inman, Cameron Meredith, Antonio Brown, Jordan Matthews, Devin Lucien, Paul Turner, Eric Decker, K.J. Maye, Amara Darboh, Chad Hansen, Corey Coleman, Bennie Folwer, Devin Street, DeAndrew White, Andrew Hawkins, Tony Washington, Kenny Britt, Bernard Ready
T: Chukwuma Okofor, Keeln Diesch, Calvin Anderson, Riley Reiff, Conor McDermott, Jerald Hawkins, Cedrick Lang, Jared Veldheer, Marshall Newhouse, Caleb Benenoch, Matt Tobin, Ulrick John
G: Nick Leverett, Liam Fornadel, Alex Redmond, R.J. Prince, Ben Braden, J.J. Dielman, Luke Bowanko, Jason King, Nate Theaker
C: Ted Karras, Tyler Gauthier, Brian Schwenke, James Ferentz
Despite the Kraft's saying their checkbook has always been open and no coach was ever prevented from signing players, they certainly didn't allocate much money in terms of bringing in many big-ticket, high-profile, break-the-bank signings. If they bring in even one guy that fits that category this off season, I would be surprised.
WR: K.J. Osborn, Matt Landers, JuJu Smith-Schuster, Jalen Reagor, Ty Montgomery, Lil'Jordan Humphrey, Josh Hammond, Nelson Agholor, Kendrick Bourne, Marvin Hall, Devin Ross, Malcolm Perry, Damiere Byrd, Marqise Lee, Will Hastings, Isaiah Zuber, Andre Baccelia, Blake Ellington, Maurice Harris, Demaryius Thomas, Dontrelle Inman, Cameron Meredith, Antonio Brown, Jordan Matthews, Devin Lucien, Paul Turner, Eric Decker, K.J. Maye, Amara Darboh, Chad Hansen, Corey Coleman, Bennie Folwer, Devin Street, DeAndrew White, Andrew Hawkins, Tony Washington, Kenny Britt, Bernard Ready
T: Chukwuma Okofor, Keeln Diesch, Calvin Anderson, Riley Reiff, Conor McDermott, Jerald Hawkins, Cedrick Lang, Jared Veldheer, Marshall Newhouse, Caleb Benenoch, Matt Tobin, Ulrick John
G: Nick Leverett, Liam Fornadel, Alex Redmond, R.J. Prince, Ben Braden, J.J. Dielman, Luke Bowanko, Jason King, Nate Theaker
C: Ted Karras, Tyler Gauthier, Brian Schwenke, James Ferentz
Despite the Kraft's saying their checkbook has always been open and no coach was ever prevented from signing players, they certainly didn't allocate much money in terms of bringing in many big-ticket, high-profile, break-the-bank signings. If they bring in even one guy that fits that category this off season, I would be surprised.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The Eagles would take a $61M cap hit if they moved on from Brown this offseason. They will start with $30M in cap space, so I'm not sure how logistically they could trade him now.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Just curious, does hiring the first head coach on an expedited timeline help all that much? Vrabel likely already has his choices for coordinators, supporting coaches, and other personnel preferences in mind. Oddly enough, the one thing they probably have to scout the least is for QBs. That sounds odd for a team that's gone 8-26 combined the past two seasons, especially given the carousel of QBs that didn't work out after Tom.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I'm still seeing McDaniels' name all over the place as the leading candidate to be OC. I really hope they don't go in that direction. He's not that bad as an OC (not good at all as a HC), but we've been there, done that so many times already. Also, not a fan of the we-can-sign-him-for-peanuts-because-the-Raiders-are-paying-him-for-3-more-years rhetoric. The Pats don't always to shop at the discount bin, and that's one of the reasons they are in their current state of quicksand.
Part of the reason they didn't spend is nobody wanted to play here. I think that has changed now that Drake Maye looks to be legit and Vrabel is in the house.
I'd be surprised if we don't see a couple of significant signings.
Agree.
I keep seeing how because nobody will be interested in hiring McDaniel's as a head coach that's some kind of benefit because he'll stick around. Who cares.
I think McDaniel's success was due in large part to Brady. McDaniel's supporters however will point to what Matt Cassel did the year Brady was out and also Mac Jones rookie year. Eh. Bill B. was also there. I don't buy it.
Need to integrate some modern thinking into this offense.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
That would make sense post-Brady or post-BB . . . but they didn't sign many big names even when Brady was around. I could have gone further back any number of years. They really weren't all that interested in bringing in big name free agents. They had a reputation around the league as being cheap, that they wouldn't pay players and wouldn't even pony up to keep their own players. The draw was playing with Brady and having a shot at a ring. Maybe that frugal reputation fell on Bill. Maybe it was the Kraft's. Lots of finger pointing post the Bill divorce.
If they want OL help, they either need to draft it or trade for it. Productive tackles don't usually get to free agency. Also, they need to figure out where their own offensive lineman play. It seems like each of them has been shuffled through multiple positions, so they should probably assign them one spot and fill the roster from there. I'm also not a huge fan of changing positions for guys coming out of college. Draft them as the position they played in college and don't hope they can do something they haven't really done before.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Yeah, online is going to be the position where there’s no easy solution. You’re going to way overpay for average in free agency and the top of this draft is weak at the position. Maybe use the high 2nd and two 3rds to trade up and grab a couple guys. Dunno.
I had linked to Matthew Slater's page a few times as the Titans ST coach is record setting awful and would he be available?
It's down now
In today's world we do overreact to posts and pages so I'll just leave it at that for now.
It could be a lot of things, even a site rework that has nothing to do with football
It's down now
In today's world we do overreact to posts and pages so I'll just leave it at that for now.
It could be a lot of things, even a site rework that has nothing to do with football
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Vrabel was just on the radio and was asked about McDaniels becoming the OC. Vrabel paused and didn’t jump at the chance to lavish JMD with praise. He said he was one of several people they were considering. It definitely didn’t sound like he was near the top of MV’s list, so that’s good. We’ll see if he ends up being told to hire Josh by higher ups.
Boston
Footballguy
I just can’t believe Vrabel is letting anyone (including the Krafts) telling him who will be on his staff…that goes against everything we know about him…IMO he would not have taken this job if stuff like who is OC was gonna be dictated to him.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The usual people that cover NE have mentioned the draw to JMD is that he is a familiar face that the Kraft's like, who has worked in developing QBs, and who is essentially free for the next 3 years. Who knows if Vrabel will be impacted by that. Similarly, at least for now, it appears that Wolf isn't going anywhere. Maybe Wolf ends up making photocopies and sending faxes, but lots of folks have mentioned Wolf is part of the plan moving forward. I agree with you that that those two things go against what we have come to think of Vrabel, who is pretty far from a Yes Man.
Also, some good discussion recently from Bedard and others who have suggested that part of the recent issues stem from Jonathan Kraft thinking he is the smartest one in the room when he clearly is not. Apparently, he has wanted to hae a much larger voice than he should. That would explain a lot.
Rees promoted to OC in Cleveland and Vrabel mentioned as wanting him in New England.
I don't know the guy. Saw a college resume.
Cleveland firing their OC and OL coach the year Vrabel is there is or isn't coincidence.
Who is the Pats OL coach and is he well regarded? Vrabel changed his in TEN and was usually displeased
I don't know the guy. Saw a college resume.
Cleveland firing their OC and OL coach the year Vrabel is there is or isn't coincidence.
Who is the Pats OL coach and is he well regarded? Vrabel changed his in TEN and was usually displeased
Yeah during the three record setting ridiculous injury years, the Titans had to sign and play people quickly. Cowden was a big part of that. The coach and GM/personnel guy have to have a "I need this" "well I can get ya that" type rapport that still empowers the coach sufficiently and Wolf can only get that relationship with Vrabel with experience.x.com
"Vrabes is the guy" reminds me of Parcells buying groceries.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The NE OL was turrrible this year. Scott Peters was the OL Coach this year. It was Adrian Klemm the year before. Matt Patricia the season prior. Carmen Bricillo the season before that. Cole Popovich the season before that. They haven't had any success since Dante Scarnecchia retired in 2019. Yes, they've had a different OL coach in each of the past 6 seasons.
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