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Interesting Comment From Mort (4 Viewers)

My simple answer of drafting Bush or not...If you think he is a once every ten year or once in a genertion talent then you have to draft him and hope that you can resolve the rest of your issues. If he is merely the best RB in 2006 class then you probably need to look else where.

 
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Houston homers would definately have a better bead on this because I've only watched one Texan game, which was the ESPN contest this past week. But, what I saw in that game is an offensive coordinator who is making extreme accomodations in the passing game to counter what must be a horrible pass blocking offensive line. Carr didn't look off his receivers because 90% of the time they had him doing 2 sec drops and firing five yards down field. But he did display great mobility, zip, and toughness. I walked away thinking that Carr would be fine if they could give the kid time to throw and let some routes develop.One thing that nobody has mentioned is the Mike Vick factor. Bush would sell tickets and this team might need a marque player or two to keep the butts in the seats until they can build a competitive team. I have no idea what free agency looks like for offensive lineman, but they would address that need faster if they bring in some experienced help versus rookies who might take a season or two to develop. You don't want to be young at every position.

 
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If only Tony Boselli had stayed healthy,,,The Texans need a franchise tackle, as soon as possible. If they can grab one in free agency, which is highly doubtful, then Leinart/Bush wouldn't be a terrible pick.If they can't, then Leinart is going to be just as shell-shocked as David Carr. He may have "intangibles", but do they really matter when he is given 2 seconds to throw the ball?The Texans need to get as many top 50 picks as possible using their #1 pick. I'd be shocked if the Texans keep the pick, and I would be royally pissed off if I were a Texan fan, if they go and waste the #1 pick on one player when they need 5. I'd also be pissed as an NFL fan, because a great prospect like Reggie Bush/Matt Leinart, would in all likelyhood never reach their full potential. As the old saying goes, the game of football is won in the trenches. It may take a few years to package the beef, so to speak, but if the Houston scouts are worth their salt, they will field a competitive team within the next three years. If they can come out of this draft with D'Brick + the #2 or #3 DT/DE in the draft, that should put the team on the right path.Check out what Jerry Angelo has accomplished in Chicago. He has spent the past 4 seasons building the offensive and defensive line, and the two units are as good as they come in the NFL. It should come as no surprise that the Bears are a better than average team, as they have used a strategy that is all but guarenteed to work, barring injuries/terrible scouting of course...

 
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D'brickashaw Ferguson is tailor made for the Texans, even if they have to trade down to get him.
False. Houston needs to get out of this rebuilding mode you seem to continuously promote on this board. You get playmakers with top draft picks. You then bring in veteran O-lineman through free agency who can contribute immediately. Ex: Robert Gallery was a great one coming out of college, but his impact has not been earth shattering, Roman Oben on the other hand has made more of an impact since San Diego traded for him than Robert Gallery since he was drafted. Bush is the call here. Ferguson is not worth it. YAO
So you take one example of a 1st round bust at a position, and you make broad, sweeping generalizations based off of that one player?Fine.

No team should ever draft a QB with the first or second pick. I mean, look at David Carr. He's just awful.

 
But, what I saw in that game is an offensive coordinator who is making extreme accomodations in the passing game to counter what must be a horrible pass blocking offensive line. Carr didn't look off his receivers because 90% of the time they had him doing 2 sec drops and firing five yards down field. But he did display great mobility, zip, and toughness. I walked away thinking that Carr would be fine if they could give the kid time to throw and let some routes develop.
The scaling back of the offense is not just an OL issue. If you truly trust your QB, then on the max protects you allow more to develop than the Texans. also, apparently on the players claimed on his radio show that Carr audibled into a good portion of those hitches. In terms of starts, Carr has more then Brees, Bulger, Pennington or Vick. He is not an inexperienced QB. He passses the eyeball test, but in a lot of way he is tease. Whether he is poorly developed or a never really had it, Carr is a QB with career passer rating under 80 and win/loss record some around 30% in around 55 starts. That is not very good.

My personal opinion is that if you placed everything perfect around him he is good enough to not mess it up, but I could say that about 50 QBs in the league. A NFL player, but not one who should have been the 1st player taken to build a franchise around.

 
D'brickashaw Ferguson is tailor made for the Texans, even if they have to trade down to get him.
False. Houston needs to get out of this rebuilding mode you seem to continuously promote on this board. You get playmakers with top draft picks. You then bring in veteran O-lineman through free agency who can contribute immediately. Ex: Robert Gallery was a great one coming out of college, but his impact has not been earth shattering, Roman Oben on the other hand has made more of an impact since San Diego traded for him than Robert Gallery since he was drafted. Bush is the call here. Ferguson is not worth it. YAO
So you take one example of a 1st round bust at a position, and you make broad, sweeping generalizations based off of that one player?Fine.

No team should ever draft a QB with the first or second pick. I mean, look at David Carr. He's just awful.
Amazing that anyone would bring up a bust OL without mentioning Tony Mandarich.(Aikman, Barry Sanders, Derrick Thomas, Deion Sanders, and Mandarich. GB the Pack ;) )

 
Stud RBs win FF championships, NOT NFL titles.Reggie Bush is the best pro prospect in college and he is a once in a generation talent, however, the presence of an elite RB is much less important than having an elite QB OR having an elite offensive line with respect to NFL success.I can see if a franchise is struggling for an identity or needs to solidy its fan base and sell jerseys, then Reggie Bush will be Mike Vick-like in his ability to put fannies in the seats and generate $$.Barry SandersWalter PaytonOJ SimpsonTomlinsonDickersonEarl CampbellAll of these guys, at stages of their career were clearly the best RB on the planet, yet none of their teams were of a championship caliber. Payton got this title, but after his "elite" years and on the heels of an All World Defense.

 
Ask the Lions how well it has worked out for them taking "playmakers" and never addressing your line. Franchise tackles are NEVER available via free agency or trade. Not unless they have serious injury question marks are on the downside of their career. Why do think guys like Orlando Pace and Walter Jones are so coveted by their teams?!?!?
:goodposting:
 
Stud RBs win FF championships, NOT NFL titles.

Reggie Bush is the best pro prospect in college and he is a once in a generation talent, however, the presence of an elite RB is much less important than having an elite QB OR having an elite offensive line with respect to NFL success.

I can see if a franchise is struggling for an identity or needs to solidy its fan base and sell jerseys, then Reggie Bush will be Mike Vick-like in his ability to put fannies in the seats and generate $$.

Barry Sanders

Walter Payton

OJ Simpson

Tomlinson

Dickerson

Earl Campbell

All of these guys, at stages of their career were clearly the best RB on the planet, yet none of their teams were of a championship caliber. Payton got this title, but after his "elite" years and on the heels of an All World Defense.
Good points for sure, but it's entirely too early to say Tomlinson doesn't help make the Chargers a champion.FWIW, Elway didn't win a Super Bowl until he had Terrell Davis, Marino never won one, Peyton Manning still hasn't won one (I can say that until February), etc.

Just my opinion, but QBs don't win Super Bowls either - Coaches do.

 
Ideal scenario for the Texans, imho.

Cut Carr rather than pay him the $8m bonus due at the end of this season.  He's done nothing to warrant pouring that kind of money into him (again).
I completely disagree. There's something to be said for how he "holds himself" beating after beating. Sacks and sacks, losses and losses. If at this point, he complained and said they never get me a line, the O stinks or whatever....I'd probably excuse it and I usually hate when guys do that. He's got a good head, a good arm and ...I'd bet he'd get a top ten pick if they traded him.

I would imagine what you want from Carr is asking too much without an OL.

Now if you said, they don't know what he brings because he's never had time to throw but change for the sake of change....OK then, but I like the guy. As far as NFL players go, he's got some good character traits.
No NFL team would trade a top-ten pick for Carr, nor would they start him. Not one team.It is classless to pick on the weak teams and players so when discussing Carr, the NFL experts are always making excuses for him. How he holds himself might be respectable but how he plays his position is not. He stinks.

 
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Stud RBs win FF championships, NOT NFL titles.

Reggie Bush is the best pro prospect in college and he is a once in a generation talent, however, the presence of an elite RB is much less important than having an elite QB OR having an elite offensive line with respect to NFL success.

I can see if a franchise is struggling for an identity or needs to solidy its fan base and sell jerseys, then Reggie Bush will be Mike Vick-like in his ability to put fannies in the seats and generate $$.

Barry Sanders

Walter Payton

OJ Simpson

Tomlinson

Dickerson

Earl Campbell

All of these guys, at stages of their career were clearly the best RB on the planet, yet none of their teams were of a championship caliber. Payton got this title, but after his "elite" years and on the heels of an All World Defense.
The record of top of draft QBs is not a steller as it seems. while elite Montana, Favre, and Brady were not top of the draft. Elway essentailly was at the same point in his career as Payton. In fairly recent times, the only top of draft QB to win the Superbowl at his career peek is Troy aikmen who captained a team built around Emmit smith. Marino is well documented as no different than the RBs you listed. BTW, Marshall Faulk was at the peek of his career when the Rams won. In terms of evidence, picking a QB at the top of the draft to win the Superbowl has been no more or less successful than having a team built around.

 
No NFL team would trade a top-ten pick for Carr,
Totally agreed on this point.
nor would they start him. Not one team.
I totally disagree with this one. Miami, New Orleans, NY Jets, just to name 3 that would start him. Maybe even San Fran, Detroit, and a few others.
 
No NFL team would trade a top-ten pick for Carr,
Totally agreed on this point.
nor would they start him.  Not one team.
I totally disagree with this one. Miami, New Orleans, NY Jets, just to name 3 that would start him. Maybe even San Fran, Detroit, and a few others.
the Jets would start him over Bollinger, but not over Pennington OR Fiedler. The Saints would not sart him over Brooks. He could compete for a job in Miami but i dont think he would win it.
 
No NFL team would trade a top-ten pick for Carr,
Totally agreed on this point.
nor would they start him. Not one team.
I totally disagree with this one. Miami, New Orleans, NY Jets, just to name 3 that would start him. Maybe even San Fran, Detroit, and a few others.
the Jets would start him over Bollinger, but not over Pennington OR Fiedler. The Saints would not sart him over Brooks. He could compete for a job in Miami but i dont think he would win it.
Pennington, ok. The rest - I disagree, but neither of our opinions counts for squat here. Brooks is a horrible QB and he's had talent around him. Just my opinion again, but IMO Carr will be a starter in the NFL longer than Brooks.
 
Pennington, ok. The rest - I disagree, but neither of our opinions counts for squat here. Brooks is a horrible QB and he's had talent around him. Just my opinion again, but IMO Carr will be a starter in the NFL longer than Brooks.
If the Texans keep him he could be around for a long time. If not, I think he will get another chance - and that 2nd chance will make or break his career. People wont be able to blame Capers or the line when he falters again, and I think he will be written off at that point.But who knows, maybe he will be great and change my mind. I just havent seen anything from him *on the field* to warrant that kind of optimism.

 
You don't waste a #1 pick on a OL
:confused:
Yeah, the last time that happened it was the Rams trading up to get Orlando Pace. The Rams went to two SB's in the next few years. The game is won and lost at the line of scrimmage. It's as simple as that.....

For those of you dogging DD's durability and Carr's ability in general, wouldn't you think that a dominating O-Line would improve both of these. I'm not an NFL coach or scout, but the last I checked it's hard to pass from your butt. And it's hard to stay healthy when you get mauled behind the line or at the line on just about every play....Just a thought....

 
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Oh, and for those of you who are sure that the Texans are going to trade Bush, please don't bump this thread and thump your chest every time you see the Texans talking to Bush or having him in for a work out, etc BEFORE the draft. The only way to create true value for the pick is to make everyone think that Bush will be taken there.Just don't talk trash based on the ginormous amount of coach speak we are going to hear before the draft....

 
My simple answer of drafting Bush or not...If you think he is a once every ten year or once in a genertion talent then you have to draft him and hope that you can resolve the rest of your issues. If he is merely the best RB in 2006 class then you probably need to look else where.
Isn't this what was said when the Falcons traded to pick Michael Vick - and letting Ladainian Tomlinson slip past them?I think people get too caught up in "talent" to the point where "football players" are not being looked at anymore.

 
Mort has to be careful with comments like that...1) It's EARLY...we just don't know if Houston will end up with the top pick or not2) Misinformation is the NORM when it comes to team's intentions via the draft; especially this early in the process [most likely, this was a planted comment meant to get back to Carr so he feels good about himself]3) We can't even be sure whether Charlie Casserly will survive the purge this year...if he doesn't, there's no way Mort or anyone can know what the new GM thinks of Carr's long-term valueAs to the merits of taking Bush 1st overall...very simple really. If you have a franchise QB and franchise RB who both carry similar grades, you take the QB every single time. If, however, Bush is heads and shoulders above everyone else on their draft board, you have conviction in your board and take him, criticisms be damned.As to those saying the Texans should take an OT 1st overall, remember that's a rarity too. In fact, the Rams got a TON of flack for taking Pace 1st overall [even though it worked out well for them]. Although this OT class is deep and talented, many of the can't miss 1st rounders have struggled this year and I'm not sure Winston projects high enough to warrant the 1st overall pick regardless of need.Great teams draft for talent, not for need.

 
As to those saying the Texans should take an OT 1st overall, remember that's a rarity too. In fact, the Rams got a TON of flack for taking Pace 1st overall [even though it worked out well for them]. Although this OT class is deep and talented, many of the can't miss 1st rounders have struggled this year and I'm not sure Winston projects high enough to warrant the 1st overall pick regardless of need.
Actually, I should've be more clear in my post. I think that the Texans should draft OT in the first round. I just don't think they should do it at 1.1. They need to drop back and accumulate picks and Linemen.
 
As to those saying the Texans should take an OT 1st overall, remember that's a rarity too. In fact, the Rams got a TON of flack for taking Pace 1st overall [even though it worked out well for them]. Although this OT class is deep and talented, many of the can't miss 1st rounders have struggled this year and I'm not sure Winston projects high enough to warrant the 1st overall pick regardless of need.
Actually, I should've be more clear in my post. I think that the Texans should draft OT in the first round. I just don't think they should do it at 1.1. They need to drop back and accumulate picks and Linemen.
This is my opinion as well. Kudos to those who also recognize that whatever team has the number 1 will probably be blowing smoke all the way up until draft time on what they want to do. The worst thing you can do is advertise 'We Want Reggie!" if someone might be willing to trade a king's ransom to draft Leinert in that slot.I understand it's the middle of college football season and people get excited when they see things like players going off against non-existent defenses on II-A schools, but can we tone down the hype a little bit? Lots can change over the course of an offseason, and we are going to see many, many threads on this before it's all said and done.

 
As to those saying the Texans should take an OT 1st overall, remember that's a rarity too. In fact, the Rams got a TON of flack for taking Pace 1st overall [even though it worked out well for them]. Although this OT class is deep and talented, many of the can't miss 1st rounders have struggled this year and I'm not sure Winston projects high enough to warrant the 1st overall pick regardless of need.
Actually, I should've be more clear in my post. I think that the Texans should draft OT in the first round. I just don't think they should do it at 1.1. They need to drop back and accumulate picks and Linemen.
Bingo. If the Houston GM has any brains, this will be his move. If he only cares about filling the stadium (I have no idea how well the Texans draw) then he will go with the flashy name.
 
Every year the team that has the #1 pick is besieged by its fans to "trade down and stockpile picks." If it were only that easy. Other GMs are keenly aware of the risk inherent in moving up to 1st overall and you have to have the perfect confluence of factors to faciliate such a trade.

 
False. Houston needs to get out of this rebuilding mode you seem to continuously promote on this board. You get playmakers with top draft picks. You then bring in veteran O-lineman through free agency who can contribute immediately. Ex: Robert Gallery was a great one coming out of college, but his impact has not been earth shattering, Roman Oben on the other hand has made more of an impact since San Diego traded for him than Robert Gallery since he was drafted. Bush is the call here. Ferguson is not worth it.

YAO
Oben has bounced around the NFL. IIRC He was a high draft pick himself. I suppose you could argue that OL are taking longer to develop than they used to. If Oben is the norm, then Gallery, Mount McKinnie and Mike Williams will be great in a few years. That doesn't sound right does it? See....It's hardly predictable
 

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