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Is Atheism Irrational? NYTimes Opinion Piece (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Klimtology
- Start date
joffer
Footballguy
Probably doesn't hurt at the parole hearing either
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
This is low hanging fruit type of stuff but I wanted to link it somewhere here when I saw it on reddit the other day.
The entry for "bible" on urban dictionary is pretty good.
The entry for "bible" on urban dictionary is pretty good.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
And that's true too. But it happens, people turn to religion in desperate circumstances.
joffer
Footballguy
http://www.centerforinquiry.net/newsroom/religious_nones_second-largest_group_in_us_cfi_heralds_tectonic_shift/
The Center for Inquiry hailed new survey data on Americans religious affiliation from Pew showing that those who do not identify with any religion are now the second-largest group in the United States, at almost 23% of the population. CFI, an organization that advocates for science and secularism, declared that the results are a sign of the nations increasing secularization and of religions waning influence in the lives of many Americans.
In survey results released today, the Pew Forum on Religion in Public Life reports that the religiously unaffiliated, which includes atheists, agnostics, and those who claim nothing in particular, now make up 22.8% of the American population, up from 16.1% in 2007. This is second only to Evangelical Protestants at 25.4% and greater than the number of Catholics, Mainline Protestants, and all other religious groups in the country.
America is transforming before our eyes, said Ronald A. Lindsay, President and CEO of the Center for Inquiry. We are witnessing a tectonic shift from a nation nearly unified in its religiousness a generation ago, to an America where increasing numbers of Americans are rejecting religious doctrines and are living lives largely free of religious influence.
While its important to acknowledge that not all of the Nones are nonbelievers, this sharp decline in religious affiliation points to a growing embrace of religious doubt among Americans, said Lindsay. Whether they consider themselves spiritual or atheist, the willingness to inquire and question religious assumptions is a promising sign for our nations future. We need critical thinkers, not followers.
Added Lindsay, Millennials make up the most secular generation America has ever known, which means that year by year, the grip of religion on American policy and culture will only continue to loosen. And a more secular America will be one that is closer the America envisioned in our founding documents: a nation governed by reason, whose policies are not influenced by religious beliefs.
Lindsay registered one note of disappointment. In a nation with 23% of the population unaffiliated, with many of these individuals atheists or agnostics, it is striking and regrettable that so few politicians are openly nonreligious. This is a testament to the stigma still attached to atheism. In time, however, that too should change, as Americans become more accepting of their many neighbors, friends, and relatives who are not religious.
The Center for Inquiry hailed new survey data on Americans religious affiliation from Pew showing that those who do not identify with any religion are now the second-largest group in the United States, at almost 23% of the population. CFI, an organization that advocates for science and secularism, declared that the results are a sign of the nations increasing secularization and of religions waning influence in the lives of many Americans.
In survey results released today, the Pew Forum on Religion in Public Life reports that the religiously unaffiliated, which includes atheists, agnostics, and those who claim nothing in particular, now make up 22.8% of the American population, up from 16.1% in 2007. This is second only to Evangelical Protestants at 25.4% and greater than the number of Catholics, Mainline Protestants, and all other religious groups in the country.
America is transforming before our eyes, said Ronald A. Lindsay, President and CEO of the Center for Inquiry. We are witnessing a tectonic shift from a nation nearly unified in its religiousness a generation ago, to an America where increasing numbers of Americans are rejecting religious doctrines and are living lives largely free of religious influence.
While its important to acknowledge that not all of the Nones are nonbelievers, this sharp decline in religious affiliation points to a growing embrace of religious doubt among Americans, said Lindsay. Whether they consider themselves spiritual or atheist, the willingness to inquire and question religious assumptions is a promising sign for our nations future. We need critical thinkers, not followers.
Added Lindsay, Millennials make up the most secular generation America has ever known, which means that year by year, the grip of religion on American policy and culture will only continue to loosen. And a more secular America will be one that is closer the America envisioned in our founding documents: a nation governed by reason, whose policies are not influenced by religious beliefs.
Lindsay registered one note of disappointment. In a nation with 23% of the population unaffiliated, with many of these individuals atheists or agnostics, it is striking and regrettable that so few politicians are openly nonreligious. This is a testament to the stigma still attached to atheism. In time, however, that too should change, as Americans become more accepting of their many neighbors, friends, and relatives who are not religious.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Curious about something - I don't equate secular with atheist. Maybe all athesists are secular but not all secularists are atheists. Correct or not?
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joffer
Footballguy
depends on your definitions I guess. To me, secular simply means without religion. I suppose you could be a secular deist.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Such ignorance from the good Rev. Strachan:
Tell me, what do the following have in common - renowned feminist Gloria Steinem, film maker Woody Allen, billionaire Warren Buffet, Canadian environmentalist David Suzuki, martial arts expert Bruce Lee, Facebook founder Mark Zuckerburg and last but not least Rolling Stones front man Mick Jagger?
Scratching your head? Stumped? Let me give you a hint by adding to that list Jim Gibson, the mayor of Head, Clara and Maria who sits on the Renfrew County council. If it didn't click before, now it has. All of the foregoing lay claim to being atheists. That means they're not theists. A 'theist' is one who believes in God, but put an 'a' in front of that six-lettered word and you come up with what the Merriam-Webster dictionary defines as 'one who denies the existence of God'. That's an atheist! And let's face it, whereby in another era many atheists kept their personal denial of God's existence somewhat private, today, in this post-Christian age they're out of the closet and not just out of the closet, but preaching their unbelief with unashamed evangelical fervour.
Take for instance Ronald Reagan Jr., the son of the one-time Christian president of the United States of America, Ronald Reagan. Junior is now part of the 'Freedom from Religion Foundation' that bemoans the intrusion of religion into the political sphere. In a series of television ads Reagan advocates for the complete separation of church and state, finishing the brief ad looking straight into the viewer's eyes with the bold pronouncement, "Ron Reagan, lifelong atheist, not afraid of burning in Hell." That's bold isn't it? I mean, really bold! But there is a brash radical boldness about today's atheism, just listen to some of the front runners of the movement, Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins, they are preaching their ideology brother, and there's an enthusiastic chorus of atheistic 'Amens' coming from all corners of the globe!
I don't know about you, but a few weeks ago I stood in the Maternity Ward of our local hospital and looked at a pair of newborn twins, and then the other day I held them. It was an awesome moment for me, I was in absolute awe, strangely and mutely silenced as I touched tiny fingers, beheld tiny eyes, felt skin as soft as velvet and pondered to think that what I now held in my arms, these beautiful babies, had their mysterious beginnings in a microscopic cell. Who, I ask you, but a Supreme Omnipotent Creator could engineer such a marvel? You simply cannot look into the face of a newborn and declare "There is no God!"
But all that asides, I've discovered throughout the years that there are many reasons why many men and women today align themselves with people like Mark Zuckerburg and Ron Reagan Jr. I think there are many people who are atheists today because they've experienced human tragedy, painful traumatic events in their lives, wars, rapes, a dysfunctional childhood, abuse, the tragic loss of a loved one and they've simply not been able to come to a satisfactory answer to the perennial perplexing question, "If there is a loving, all-powerful God, then why would He allow this to happen to me?"
Outside of their own personal traumas, many embrace atheism today because they read of the Jewish Holocaust, see and witness human tragedies on a widespread scale, famines, genocides, ethnic cleansings and they ask themselves despairingly, "If there is a God, why would He allow such atrocities?" Together with that, there are many who fly under the banner of atheism today because at some memorable junction in their lives they have been desperately hurt, wounded and scarred by someone who professed to be a believer. Tragically the messenger has discredited the message by his/her inappropriate behaviour and the wounded one has committed the classic error that all of us are inclined to do, of throwing out the baby with the bathwater!
Personally, I would love to sit down with guys like Woody Allen or Mark Zuckerburg and Mayor Jim Gibson. I would love to ask them "Why are you an atheist?" And then I would love to sit and listen, without interruption or defence on my part, them tell me why. I would venture to say that some of them would come up with some very strong intellectual arguments as to why they reject God, but I'm also absolutely convinced that many of them would tell me that they have embraced the belief system of atheism because they've been wounded by professed believers, or they've seen too much hypocrisy in the ranks of those who believe.
As a theist and a Christian, I'd love to ask any of them what they think of Jesus Christ. I'd furthermore like to invite their responses to the question, "What do you think of the comments made by historian after historian down through the generations that this man Jesus Christ is the most important man who ever lived?"
I wonder what they'd say. I wonder what Gloria would say, and I wonder what Woody, Warren and Bruce would say. And I guess for that matter, I wonder, I really wonder, what Jim Gibson, the mayor who sits on the Renfrew County Council would say. It would be interesting to know, wouldn't it? For let's face it, if you forthrightly profess to be an atheist, deep down, at least according to you . . . there's a substantial reason why!
Rev. Eric Strachan, New Life Community Church, Petawawa
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I particularly like the part where he says Ron Regan, Jr. advocates for the separation of church and state. We all should Reverand, we all should.
Tell me, what do the following have in common - renowned feminist Gloria Steinem, film maker Woody Allen, billionaire Warren Buffet, Canadian environmentalist David Suzuki, martial arts expert Bruce Lee, Facebook founder Mark Zuckerburg and last but not least Rolling Stones front man Mick Jagger?
Scratching your head? Stumped? Let me give you a hint by adding to that list Jim Gibson, the mayor of Head, Clara and Maria who sits on the Renfrew County council. If it didn't click before, now it has. All of the foregoing lay claim to being atheists. That means they're not theists. A 'theist' is one who believes in God, but put an 'a' in front of that six-lettered word and you come up with what the Merriam-Webster dictionary defines as 'one who denies the existence of God'. That's an atheist! And let's face it, whereby in another era many atheists kept their personal denial of God's existence somewhat private, today, in this post-Christian age they're out of the closet and not just out of the closet, but preaching their unbelief with unashamed evangelical fervour.
Take for instance Ronald Reagan Jr., the son of the one-time Christian president of the United States of America, Ronald Reagan. Junior is now part of the 'Freedom from Religion Foundation' that bemoans the intrusion of religion into the political sphere. In a series of television ads Reagan advocates for the complete separation of church and state, finishing the brief ad looking straight into the viewer's eyes with the bold pronouncement, "Ron Reagan, lifelong atheist, not afraid of burning in Hell." That's bold isn't it? I mean, really bold! But there is a brash radical boldness about today's atheism, just listen to some of the front runners of the movement, Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins, they are preaching their ideology brother, and there's an enthusiastic chorus of atheistic 'Amens' coming from all corners of the globe!
I don't know about you, but a few weeks ago I stood in the Maternity Ward of our local hospital and looked at a pair of newborn twins, and then the other day I held them. It was an awesome moment for me, I was in absolute awe, strangely and mutely silenced as I touched tiny fingers, beheld tiny eyes, felt skin as soft as velvet and pondered to think that what I now held in my arms, these beautiful babies, had their mysterious beginnings in a microscopic cell. Who, I ask you, but a Supreme Omnipotent Creator could engineer such a marvel? You simply cannot look into the face of a newborn and declare "There is no God!"
But all that asides, I've discovered throughout the years that there are many reasons why many men and women today align themselves with people like Mark Zuckerburg and Ron Reagan Jr. I think there are many people who are atheists today because they've experienced human tragedy, painful traumatic events in their lives, wars, rapes, a dysfunctional childhood, abuse, the tragic loss of a loved one and they've simply not been able to come to a satisfactory answer to the perennial perplexing question, "If there is a loving, all-powerful God, then why would He allow this to happen to me?"
Outside of their own personal traumas, many embrace atheism today because they read of the Jewish Holocaust, see and witness human tragedies on a widespread scale, famines, genocides, ethnic cleansings and they ask themselves despairingly, "If there is a God, why would He allow such atrocities?" Together with that, there are many who fly under the banner of atheism today because at some memorable junction in their lives they have been desperately hurt, wounded and scarred by someone who professed to be a believer. Tragically the messenger has discredited the message by his/her inappropriate behaviour and the wounded one has committed the classic error that all of us are inclined to do, of throwing out the baby with the bathwater!
Personally, I would love to sit down with guys like Woody Allen or Mark Zuckerburg and Mayor Jim Gibson. I would love to ask them "Why are you an atheist?" And then I would love to sit and listen, without interruption or defence on my part, them tell me why. I would venture to say that some of them would come up with some very strong intellectual arguments as to why they reject God, but I'm also absolutely convinced that many of them would tell me that they have embraced the belief system of atheism because they've been wounded by professed believers, or they've seen too much hypocrisy in the ranks of those who believe.
As a theist and a Christian, I'd love to ask any of them what they think of Jesus Christ. I'd furthermore like to invite their responses to the question, "What do you think of the comments made by historian after historian down through the generations that this man Jesus Christ is the most important man who ever lived?"
I wonder what they'd say. I wonder what Gloria would say, and I wonder what Woody, Warren and Bruce would say. And I guess for that matter, I wonder, I really wonder, what Jim Gibson, the mayor who sits on the Renfrew County Council would say. It would be interesting to know, wouldn't it? For let's face it, if you forthrightly profess to be an atheist, deep down, at least according to you . . . there's a substantial reason why!
Rev. Eric Strachan, New Life Community Church, Petawawa
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I particularly like the part where he says Ron Regan, Jr. advocates for the separation of church and state. We all should Reverand, we all should.
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Amused to Death
Footballguy
Joe Summer
Footballguy
If you're an atheist who once experienced some kind of trauma, then the trauma must have caused the atheism. It's perfectly logical.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
(HULK)
(Smash)
My theory is that if you've experience some kind of trauma, you're more likely to be religious.* People who have been hurt often turn to imaginary powers to seek justice (punishment after death for their currently unpunished tormentors) or comfort (they'll be rewarded for their suffering in the next life).
*Not my theory really, just pointing out how easily it can be flipped around.
timschochet
Footballguy
That article mentions the Holocaust.
I do believe the two key events of World War II, the Holocaust and the nuclear bombs dropped on Japan, have had a huge long term influence on the rise of atheism.
I do believe the two key events of World War II, the Holocaust and the nuclear bombs dropped on Japan, have had a huge long term influence on the rise of atheism.
CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
Or recite the simplistic "man was given free will" as if this exonerates a supposed all-powerful, forgiving, worthy of worship god from allowing unfair pain, suffering, cruelty and trauma.
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CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
If God is omnipotent, why does he allow evil to exist?
- Evil exists because we have free will
Is there evil in heaven?
- Of course there's no evil in heaven
Is there free will in heaven?
- Yes... No... well...
matuski
Footballguy
The question is valid, but not necessarily the rest of the quote that precedes it.
I would think more people are just able to escape the fairly tale and figure it out rather than need some jarring life changing event to get critical thought in gear.
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Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Somewhat interesting results in the latest Pew study on religion. According to the study, the number of respondents who self-identify as "atheist/agnostic/nothing in particular" ( admittedly, a broad and somewhat inexact classification) have risen by 7% since 2007 (up to 23%). In the same time, those self-identifying as Christian have declined by 8% (down to a still healthy 71% or so).
Atheists, much like gays before them, have often been told that they should just be quiet about it. That everything would be better off if they just didn't make it such a public issue. But the way these numbers have changed so rapidly (when I joined this board gay marriage polled below 40% nationally), seem to belie that criticism. No matter whether you think that Dawkins and Harris and Maher are too "in your face," their message is getting across.
Atheists, much like gays before them, have often been told that they should just be quiet about it. That everything would be better off if they just didn't make it such a public issue. But the way these numbers have changed so rapidly (when I joined this board gay marriage polled below 40% nationally), seem to belie that criticism. No matter whether you think that Dawkins and Harris and Maher are too "in your face," their message is getting across.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
And if you live in the northeastern mega-metroplex like we do it's pretty easy to be a none. It just never comes up in daily life for millions of us. That's why I'm blown away whenever Jayrod talks about his lunchtime bible discussion groups -- at work -- and NCC talks about job applicants aspiring to work for "Christian" companies. It just doesn't happen around here.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Was at a car dealership the other day and they were getting pizzas for the sales managers daily bible study group. Attendance totally voluntary of course.
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Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
On the good news front...
Judge rules that Abstinence Only isn't sex ed
Aussie Gov't to deny benefits to moron, anti-vax parents
Judge rules that Abstinence Only isn't sex ed
Aussie Gov't to deny benefits to moron, anti-vax parents
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
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matttyl
Footballguy
So roughly a 1% per year increase in the former and a 1% per year decrease in the latter. Interesting. I wonder where that poll will be in another 25 or so years?
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
Fortune 500 company for me here in south Texas, and I have seen a sign for a bible study up here.
CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
Found this article and thought it was interesting.
http://valerietarico.com/2015/05/24/the-god-debate/
http://valerietarico.com/2015/05/24/the-god-debate/
CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
I think the point is the god that most religions have envisioned is a personal god that interacts with us in some way. Even if he doesn't give us presents like you guys are describing, aren't most people in it for the ultimate reward of eternal life?
NCCommish
Footballguy
Well of course that's the sales pitch. Don't worry about how crap you have it here soon you'll be walking streets paved with gold and you will want for nothing. So be to sure to work for the local authority figure and never question him. He is king by God's hand after all. Such an obvious con.
NREC34
Footballguy
joffer
Footballguy
roadkill1292
Footballguy
NCCommish
Footballguy
So they just added socialist with no context? Interesting timing. Most Americans think socialism is communism I'm not to worried for Bernie.
joffer
Footballguy
http://www.cruxnow.com/faith/2015/06/17/losing-our-religion/
You go hear even a semi-famous Catholic speaker. More often than not the event is free, the auditorium is half full, and almost everybody’s old.
But last week in a Boston suburb, the Chevalier Theater, 2,036 seats, packed ’em in. Downtown Medford’s parking lots overflowed. Cops directed traffic. It cost $35 a ticket and I’d estimate the average age was 30.
The speakers? Richard Dawkins and Daniel Dennett, two prominent proselytizers for the so-called “New Atheism.”
I guess you could call the evening evidence of what the Pew Research Center on Religion and Society reported last month in its latest faith survey. Christianity, including Catholicism, is tanking in America. The number of non-believers is rising. Nearly 1 in 5 adults identify with no religion at all. And the biggest non-believers are young men and women like the ones who cheered and laughed and had a great old time at the Chevalier hearing two gray-haired guys go on about the ridiculousness of believing something based on nothing.
Let me say right now: As a Catholic who ricochets wildly between blissful moments of faith and complete and utter doubt, I found the whole experience unnerving. I’d hoped both men would be humorless, strident, militant, even obnoxious. Then I could go home feeling confident in my faith. Instead they were funny, charming, and quite likable. I went home deflated. I looked up everyone who’s debated them or contradicted them and argued for the wondrous mysteries of the divine. Then I feel asleep in a funk.
Perhaps you’ve heard of the intellectuals nicknamed the “Four Horsemen of the Non-Apocalypse.” Dawkins and Dennett are two of them. The third was the late Christopher Hitchens, author of “God is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything, ” and essays proclaiming his non-conversion even as he lay dying of cancer. The fourth is Sam Harris, author of the best sellers “The End of Faith” and “Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion.”
Forget the $35 Dawkins and Dennett charged in Medford. Harris has charged $219 a ticket to detail his no-God approach to spirituality.
Dawkins, an evolutionary biologist and former Oxford professor, is best known for his 2006 blockbuster, “The God Delusion,” which sold more than 2 million copies and was translated into 31 languages. Dennett, a renowned Tufts professor of philosophy, wrote “Breaking the Spell: Religions as a Natural Phenomenon.” He’s also involved in “The Clergy Project.” That’s an online community for religious — priests, nuns, ministers, rabbis, any religious leader — who have lost faith or, as the website puts it, no longer hold “to supernatural beliefs” and face an obvious dilemma: Do they come clean and tell the congregation that their leader, unfortunately, is an atheist now?
The basic premise of the “New Atheism,” a movement about 15 years old, is this: Morality need not be linked to religion and atheists can be as loyal, true, upstanding, and selfless as the saints themselves. Meanwhile, religion, particularly fundamentalism, can be dangerous and should be aggressively opposed when it influences governments, education, and science, impedes social progress, incites violence, or tries to impose its tenets on others. “If you really really believe your God or Allah or whatever wants you to go and do something, “ said Dawkins, “then it’s entirely possible for an entirely rational person to do hideous things.”
Dennett has compared faith to “something that grips the mind in the same way a conventional virus grips the body.” He said it’s like believing in Santa Claus, a myth of childhood, and not something a non-delusional, sane adult could embrace.
Said Dawkins: When we see butterflies, flowers, spectacular sunsets, and other wonders of nature — and assume an omniscient creator at work — remember, Darwin’s evolutionary theory has now shown us otherwise. Today science, not superstition, can answer nearly all the deep questions about why we’re here and the meaning of it all “more grandly and more beautifully” than any religions text.
And the New Atheists hope to educate the uneducated to share this view.
“The word atheist has a kind of horror attached to it,” said Dawkins, adding that the gay rights movement could be a model for non-believers. Suppose all the atheists came out of the closet and made “little YouTube selfies saying, ‘I’m a postman, a school teacher, a nurse. I’m an atheist … and a nice person.’ ”
“When will we have an atheist president? I think we’ve had lots of atheist presidents,” said Dennett. But American politicians must pretend they’re religious to inspire trust. That’s true in regular life, said Dennett, an atheist since his teen years. “But I never talked about it. Then I realized if you actually mention it, no proselytizing, no standing on street corner, you just let it drop (into the conversation), sometimes a person’s face lights up and they say, ‘Oh, I’m not alone.’ ”
In an interview after the Chevalier event, I asked Dawkins if he’s sure he’s right about all this. Is there room for doubt?
“Well, there may be room for doubt in the sense of not understanding. There’s a lot we don’t yet understand.” But that does not mean, he said, that we may one day understand something at all related to the “supernatural.”
In other words, this is it. Here and now. Get used to it.
And Dennett and Dawkins’ Medford fans seemed positively gleeful about it all.
Maybe they’ll rethink when they’re older and facing their own mortality. Alas, Dennett is 73. Dawkins? He’s 74.
There was an hour-long, book-signing line after last week’s lecture. So I asked some of those waiting patiently about the New Atheism’s appeal. Some common answers: It’s much more rational than angels and God-made-man. Too much of organized religion is corrupted by money and power. And cradle Catholics said just what you’d expect: They are unable to remain in a Church that treats women and gays as less-thans and sex as evil. Pope Francis may be a nice guy — and on the right side of climate change — but it’s not enough.
Like I said, it was a tough night.
You go hear even a semi-famous Catholic speaker. More often than not the event is free, the auditorium is half full, and almost everybody’s old.
But last week in a Boston suburb, the Chevalier Theater, 2,036 seats, packed ’em in. Downtown Medford’s parking lots overflowed. Cops directed traffic. It cost $35 a ticket and I’d estimate the average age was 30.
The speakers? Richard Dawkins and Daniel Dennett, two prominent proselytizers for the so-called “New Atheism.”
I guess you could call the evening evidence of what the Pew Research Center on Religion and Society reported last month in its latest faith survey. Christianity, including Catholicism, is tanking in America. The number of non-believers is rising. Nearly 1 in 5 adults identify with no religion at all. And the biggest non-believers are young men and women like the ones who cheered and laughed and had a great old time at the Chevalier hearing two gray-haired guys go on about the ridiculousness of believing something based on nothing.
Let me say right now: As a Catholic who ricochets wildly between blissful moments of faith and complete and utter doubt, I found the whole experience unnerving. I’d hoped both men would be humorless, strident, militant, even obnoxious. Then I could go home feeling confident in my faith. Instead they were funny, charming, and quite likable. I went home deflated. I looked up everyone who’s debated them or contradicted them and argued for the wondrous mysteries of the divine. Then I feel asleep in a funk.
Perhaps you’ve heard of the intellectuals nicknamed the “Four Horsemen of the Non-Apocalypse.” Dawkins and Dennett are two of them. The third was the late Christopher Hitchens, author of “God is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything, ” and essays proclaiming his non-conversion even as he lay dying of cancer. The fourth is Sam Harris, author of the best sellers “The End of Faith” and “Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion.”
Forget the $35 Dawkins and Dennett charged in Medford. Harris has charged $219 a ticket to detail his no-God approach to spirituality.
Dawkins, an evolutionary biologist and former Oxford professor, is best known for his 2006 blockbuster, “The God Delusion,” which sold more than 2 million copies and was translated into 31 languages. Dennett, a renowned Tufts professor of philosophy, wrote “Breaking the Spell: Religions as a Natural Phenomenon.” He’s also involved in “The Clergy Project.” That’s an online community for religious — priests, nuns, ministers, rabbis, any religious leader — who have lost faith or, as the website puts it, no longer hold “to supernatural beliefs” and face an obvious dilemma: Do they come clean and tell the congregation that their leader, unfortunately, is an atheist now?
The basic premise of the “New Atheism,” a movement about 15 years old, is this: Morality need not be linked to religion and atheists can be as loyal, true, upstanding, and selfless as the saints themselves. Meanwhile, religion, particularly fundamentalism, can be dangerous and should be aggressively opposed when it influences governments, education, and science, impedes social progress, incites violence, or tries to impose its tenets on others. “If you really really believe your God or Allah or whatever wants you to go and do something, “ said Dawkins, “then it’s entirely possible for an entirely rational person to do hideous things.”
Dennett has compared faith to “something that grips the mind in the same way a conventional virus grips the body.” He said it’s like believing in Santa Claus, a myth of childhood, and not something a non-delusional, sane adult could embrace.
Said Dawkins: When we see butterflies, flowers, spectacular sunsets, and other wonders of nature — and assume an omniscient creator at work — remember, Darwin’s evolutionary theory has now shown us otherwise. Today science, not superstition, can answer nearly all the deep questions about why we’re here and the meaning of it all “more grandly and more beautifully” than any religions text.
And the New Atheists hope to educate the uneducated to share this view.
“The word atheist has a kind of horror attached to it,” said Dawkins, adding that the gay rights movement could be a model for non-believers. Suppose all the atheists came out of the closet and made “little YouTube selfies saying, ‘I’m a postman, a school teacher, a nurse. I’m an atheist … and a nice person.’ ”
“When will we have an atheist president? I think we’ve had lots of atheist presidents,” said Dennett. But American politicians must pretend they’re religious to inspire trust. That’s true in regular life, said Dennett, an atheist since his teen years. “But I never talked about it. Then I realized if you actually mention it, no proselytizing, no standing on street corner, you just let it drop (into the conversation), sometimes a person’s face lights up and they say, ‘Oh, I’m not alone.’ ”
In an interview after the Chevalier event, I asked Dawkins if he’s sure he’s right about all this. Is there room for doubt?
“Well, there may be room for doubt in the sense of not understanding. There’s a lot we don’t yet understand.” But that does not mean, he said, that we may one day understand something at all related to the “supernatural.”
In other words, this is it. Here and now. Get used to it.
And Dennett and Dawkins’ Medford fans seemed positively gleeful about it all.
Maybe they’ll rethink when they’re older and facing their own mortality. Alas, Dennett is 73. Dawkins? He’s 74.
There was an hour-long, book-signing line after last week’s lecture. So I asked some of those waiting patiently about the New Atheism’s appeal. Some common answers: It’s much more rational than angels and God-made-man. Too much of organized religion is corrupted by money and power. And cradle Catholics said just what you’d expect: They are unable to remain in a Church that treats women and gays as less-thans and sex as evil. Pope Francis may be a nice guy — and on the right side of climate change — but it’s not enough.
Like I said, it was a tough night.
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
American Psychological Association to classify belief in God as a mental illness ETA: Satire just so no one gets misled.
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Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Well, that headline isn't at all sensational or misleading.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
This is kind of life as contrarians know it, isn't it? These, accidentally, happen to be two of my favorite players in the game. Wild coincidence, or not. I'm now not sure. Good for them.
Foster's interest was piqued. They began to discuss religion, and morals, and whether one can exist without the other. Every day, it seemed, Foster presented Forsett with a different question, a new challenge. In Forsett, Foster found a friendly adversary, someone who wouldn't cower, who could back his beliefs with both Bible verses and actions. They discussed their reverse-image lives, how one of them had grown up in the West and gone to college as a nonbeliever in the Bible Belt, while the other was a devout Christian who grew up in Texas and went to college in Berkeley. Each had felt marginalized. Each was extremely accustomed to defending his beliefs to hostile questioners.
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