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Is Hines Ward a HOF'er? (1 Viewer)

Will Hines Ward make the Hall of Fame?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
I think this will be one of the more interesting HOF debates in the coming years.

I think he should, and probably will. Here's my reasoning.

Against:

Hines has never put up prolific stats as a receiver. He has played in an era of great receivers, and there are three in particular (Moss, Harrison, Owens) who have dominated statistically and are shoo-ins at this point.

He only has three seasons as a top 10 fantasy WR, and none in the top 2 (He's finished #3, #6 and #10). His best season (112-1329-12) would be an average season for Moss/Harrison/Owens.

For:

Generally regarded as the best blocking WR in the league for most of his career. Has contributed to Pittsburgh having an elite running game with merely good running backs.

Extremely high-character guy in an era of showboats (Harrison being the other notable exception). Plays very hard, loves to hit and be hit. We've all seen dozens of clips of Ward getting drilled over the middle and bouncing up with a big smile on his face.

While not known as a deep threat, in my experience he rivals the best when needed. He isn't all that fast (nor is TO), but he has very sure hands and runs good routes.

While I don't put him in the Moss / Harrison / Owens tier as a pure receiver, I think he could put up consistent top 5 stats in a different offense.

Plays big in the playoffs: over ten games, his average is 5.7 receptions, 76.1 yards, 0.8 touchdowns, or 91-1217-13 over 16 games. This is worse than Moss (4.4 - 90.4 - 1.1) but better than Owens (5.0 - 70.2 - 0.4) and Harrison (4.3 - 59.6 - 0.15).

Super Bowl MVP.

I also think there's an interesting thought experiment. If you were building an NFL franchise from scratch and had to pick a WR, where would Ward go on your list? If you know that the surrounding offensive cast will be excellent, I think you would clearly take Moss / Harrison / Owens over Ward, and probably somebody like Steve Smith or Chad Johnson. But if you don't know anything else about the make-up of your team, and you want a well-rounded player who will be good on the field, in the locker room and off the field, and will play hard whether the team is 3-10 or 10-3, I think you could make a case for Ward over just about anybody.

----------------------

Those are my reasons for thinking he should make it. I also think he has some intangibles which increase the likelihood that he will make it, although I don't necessarily agree with these reasons. To wit:

-The media loves him because of his "clean-cut tough guy" image

-They will want to include him as a representative of one of the most consistently good offenses of this era.

I should note that he is probably my favorite player in the NFL, but I'm not a Steelers fan (restore the roar in 2008!).

 
I say yes even over compilers like Jimmy Smith and Rod Smith. He is more than the #s and has made a number of Pro Bowls as well.

 
No and no? Well said. You must be a Patriots fan.

Actually, the answer is yes and hopefully. He just set the Steelers record for TD catches over two HOFers. He has 8,600 yards and counting...132 yards away from breaking Stallworth's team record. Six straight seasons of 975+ yards and could hit that again this year. Four-time Pro Bowler. Super Bowl winner and MVP. Three-time team MVP. He is as reliable and consistent as they come, especially in a historically run-first offense. His contributions to the running game as a blocker have set the standard in the NFL. He's a great player who should have a place among the greats in years to come.

 
Uh, no, not unless he puts up several more seasons as good as or better than his best season so far. Great player, but won't come close.

 
No.

He has only finished in the top 10 in receiving yards twice, and is currently not even among the top 50 in receiving yards in NFL history. Plus, he has never really been a big TD producer, outside of a few seasons.

A very good player for a long time, but not quite good enough.

 
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No and no? Well said. You must be a Patriots fan.
Hmm, not sure what my own football interests have to do with the debate. I just don't think he should or will make it. I'm not convinced that tenure with one team (leading to team records), blocking abilities, or character are enough to elevate him above his peers. We've had plenty of these debates and one of the most compelling arguments I've heard for the HOF chances of any given player is his place amongst contemporaries. I believe it's Yudkin who showed how few WRs make it and how few amongst a set of peers will make it. I happen to love Ward, but I don't see the argument in this case.
 
i would say Yes.

playing on a franchise that has such a great history will help his cause. If he had the same stats and was on a team like the jaguars, he would not make it.

 
No and no? Well said. You must be a Patriots fan.
Hmm, not sure what my own football interests have to do with the debate. I just don't think he should or will make it. I'm not convinced that tenure with one team (leading to team records), blocking abilities, or character are enough to elevate him above his peers. We've had plenty of these debates and one of the most compelling arguments I've heard for the HOF chances of any given player is his place amongst contemporaries. I believe it's Yudkin who showed how few WRs make it and how few amongst a set of peers will make it. I happen to love Ward, but I don't see the argument in this case.
I was only kidding with the Pats reference since you are from Boston. Anyway, you may be right. The Art Monk comparison is interesting. But I don't see why it is all about stats. Hines Ward is a winner and has been bread and butter for the Steelers passing game.So what if he continues to play for the same number of years as Isaac Bruce and has numbers that approach him when it is all said and done? Bruce right now stands at 13,900 yards and 80 TDs. Ward will not reach the yardage, but he should come within 2,000 or so. He should score as many TDs. Bruce is in a pass-friendly O, Ward is in a run-friendly O. Does that change anything?
 
So what if he continues to play for the same number of years as Isaac Bruce and has numbers that approach him when it is all said and done? Bruce right now stands at 13,900 yards and 80 TDs. Ward will not reach the yardage, but he should come within 2,000 or so. He should score as many TDs. Bruce is in a pass-friendly O, Ward is in a run-friendly O. Does that change anything?
Bruce is 5th all-time in receiving yards with 13,911 at the moment. He isn't finished yet. Ward is around 5,300 yards behind him, so I am not sure I would count on Ward ever getting within 2,000 of Bruce.
 
Slim chance of making it, no chance of deserving it. Terrific player, and a great guy -- but not a Hall of Famer. Not even very close. Three really good years is not close to HOF worthy.

 
Holt, Bruce and Harrison go in ahead of him and by far
Harrison by far, yes. The others by far? No.
Holt's numbers are on pace for top 5 all time and is a much better WR than Ward. Bruce lost alot of production when the Rams were horrible prior to the Warner, Faulk, martz era. Both are better Wr's than Ward.
I agree, but I wouldn't say they are locks BY FAR to make the Hall over Ward. Neither Holt nor Bruce are going to be no-brainers to make it. Harrison will be.
 
So what if he continues to play for the same number of years as Isaac Bruce and has numbers that approach him when it is all said and done? Bruce right now stands at 13,900 yards and 80 TDs. Ward will not reach the yardage, but he should come within 2,000 or so. He should score as many TDs. Bruce is in a pass-friendly O, Ward is in a run-friendly O. Does that change anything?
No, he has no chance. People likely to stay ahead of Ward on the receiving yardage list include McCardell and Galloway (who is 5 years older than Ward and still outperforming him, on a team that's #27 in passing atempts), and he will struggle to even catch Eric Moulds and Mushin Muhammad. He's the same age as Tony Gonzalez, and Gonzalez as a TE has more yardage, receptions, and TDs than Ward as a WR. The idea is just absurd. Ward's a great player, a real baller, but certainly no more so in that realm than Rod Smith, who himself has little or no chance at the HOF.
 
Holt, Bruce and Harrison go in ahead of him and by far
Harrison by far, yes. The others by far? No.
Holt's numbers are on pace for top 5 all time and is a much better WR than Ward. Bruce lost alot of production when the Rams were horrible prior to the Warner, Faulk, martz era. Both are better Wr's than Ward.
I agree, but I wouldn't say they are locks BY FAR to make the Hall over Ward. Neither Holt nor Bruce are going to be no-brainers to make it. Harrison will be.
Holt and Bruce are every bit as good as Harrison. Harrison has one of the greatest qb's of all time throwing to him, which is fine. But, Holt and Bruce's numbers are easily HOF material. Not even close. Plus they have a SB to back it up, with Bruce having the game winning SB catch.
 
I agree, but I wouldn't say they are locks BY FAR to make the Hall over Ward. Neither Holt nor Bruce are going to be no-brainers to make it. Harrison will be.
Holt will be a no-brainer if he continues playing at a reasonably high level. I think Bruce has a chance but he's a more marginal commodity. Holt already has four top-5 and three more top-10 receiving yard finishes (and another one coming this year), and a huge game in a Super Bowl win. Bruce had three very good seasons, one of the best seasons of all time, and a lot of compiling. Both are way ahead of Ward.
 
Holt, Bruce and Harrison go in ahead of him and by far
Harrison by far, yes. The others by far? No.
Holt's numbers are on pace for top 5 all time and is a much better WR than Ward. Bruce lost alot of production when the Rams were horrible prior to the Warner, Faulk, martz era. Both are better Wr's than Ward.
I agree, but I wouldn't say they are locks BY FAR to make the Hall over Ward. Neither Holt nor Bruce are going to be no-brainers to make it. Harrison will be.
Holt and Bruce are every bit as good as Harrison. Harrison has one of the greatest qb's of all time throwing to him, which is fine. But, Holt and Bruce's numbers are easily HOF material. Not even close. Plus they have a SB to back it up, with Bruce having the game winning SB catch.
Did you miss last winter when Harrison won a Super Bowl as a member of the Colts? And, sorry, but no way are Bruce and Holt going to go down in history as being as good as Marvin Harrison.
 
So what if he continues to play for the same number of years as Isaac Bruce and has numbers that approach him when it is all said and done? Bruce right now stands at 13,900 yards and 80 TDs. Ward will not reach the yardage, but he should come within 2,000 or so. He should score as many TDs. Bruce is in a pass-friendly O, Ward is in a run-friendly O. Does that change anything?
No, he has no chance. People likely to stay ahead of Ward on the receiving yardage list include McCardell and Galloway (who is 5 years older than Ward and still outperforming him, on a team that's #27 in passing atempts), and he will struggle to even catch Eric Moulds and Mushin Muhammad. He's the same age as Tony Gonzalez, and Gonzalez as a TE has more yardage, receptions, and TDs than Ward as a WR. The idea is just absurd. Ward's a great player, a real baller, but certainly no more so in that realm than Rod Smith, who himself has little or no chance at the HOF.
:goodposting:
 
Ward is a great WR but will have to do a lot from here on out to make the Hall.

I agree Bruce will likely get in and Holt will be a 1st balloter when he is done.

Marvin Harrison is in a different league that includes TO and Moss, and all three of them are locks as of today IMO.

 
Against:

He only has three seasons as a top 10 fantasy WR, and none in the top 2 (He's finished #3, #6 and #10). His best season (112-1329-12) would be an average season for Moss/Harrison/Owens.
Never knew fantasy stats were a consideration when it comes to Hall of Fame voting.
those are just stats I believe, not fantasy stats. Stats are the only objective criteria (I guess SB wins too) and should be given the most weight in voting to curb voter bias.He has never been one of the dominant, elite wideouts, although that was a really good season. 112 receps is huge.

 
Ward is a great WR but will have to do a lot from here on out to make the Hall.I agree Bruce will likely get in and Holt will be a 1st balloter when he is done. Marvin Harrison is in a different league that includes TO and Moss, and all three of them are locks as of today IMO.
Holt is in Harrison's league. The Rams just had too many great weapons and not enough balls to go around for a while. Faulk really gobbled up alot of balls, and now Sjax is also. Sjax caught 90 balls last year. Having a duo like Holt and Bruce, both legitimate #1's, really cut into each others numbers too.
 
Against:

He only has three seasons as a top 10 fantasy WR, and none in the top 2 (He's finished #3, #6 and #10). His best season (112-1329-12) would be an average season for Moss/Harrison/Owens.
Never knew fantasy stats were a consideration when it comes to Hall of Fame voting.
those are just stats I believe, not fantasy stats. Stats are the only objective criteria (I guess SB wins too) and should be given the most weight in voting to curb voter bias.He has never been one of the dominant, elite wideouts, although that was a really good season. 112 receps is huge.
Fantasy stats were pointed out in the OP
 
Slim chance of making it, no chance of deserving it. Terrific player, and a great guy -- but not a Hall of Famer.
Hey, Namath and Swann are in the Hall... anything's possible.For the record, "no" and "no" for me.
:goodposting: Namath has stats comparible to Dave Kreig. Ward as well as the Bus will hold a spot in the hearts of Steelers faithful and while most of you will say big deal, from recent history, as well as whether it gets to the HOF veterans voting it will have some swing methinks.
 
Slim chance of making it, no chance of deserving it. Terrific player, and a great guy -- but not a Hall of Famer. Not even very close. Three really good years is not close to HOF worthy.
Totally agree. If a guy like Andre Reed is on the bubble, Ward will never get in.
 
No and he shouldn't. Just because you "do all the small things" as well as anyone (and those small things are bigger than that, I understand) doesnt make you one of the games all time greats.

A super solid super rounded player does not overcome for not being, well, great.

 
Hmmm, it is interesting how the vote is about 50/50 right now (must be all of those Steelers fans voting), yet most of the people who have posted are saying "no." I would like to hear the reasons why some are voting "yes."

 
Must be A LOT of Steelers fans voting here.. Its not called the Hall of Very Good...

This is for the best of the best.

Sorry folks, Hines Ward is not that. Great guy, good character, has fun, etc.. but eventually, you need the big time numbers, unless you are an integral part of 3 or 4 championships. Hines Ward has neither going for him.

 
I'm not voting either way because Ward's career isn't over yet and he's probably not a HOF'er at the moment (though I think he will get some votes for sure). But to take his side for the moment, you can't just look at the raw numbers. All receivers don't get equal opportunities to post the same numbers, not even close. Compare Ward to his exact contemporary Randy Moss. Moss has played in a Top 10 passing offense eight times (four times Top 5), Ward just twice (never Top 5). Ward's played for a Bottom 10 passing offense six times, Moss just once (last year). Ward's done everything that could possibly be asked of him, something incidentally you might not be able to say about Moss.

Postseason success will be more important for Ward than for other WR candidates and he'd probably need another run like 2005 to make a strong enough case.

 
Slim chance of making it, no chance of deserving it. Terrific player, and a great guy -- but not a Hall of Famer.
Hey, Namath and Swann are in the Hall... anything's possible.For the record, "no" and "no" for me.
Namath may be hip to bash, but he's a clear Hall of Famer. Even your comrade Jason Wood has softened on his stance.
Namath won a huge game as a huge underdog, and he called his shot. For that, he gets all credit due him.But a guy who had 173 TDs and 220 INTs has no business being in the Hall.

 
One of the biggest fraud's in the HOF is Marcus Allen

Stallworth is another

i HATE Marcus Allen.

Also, if Testaverde makes the HOF because of his career stats I'll VOMIT.

I'd rather a Terrell Davis or Kurt Warner type of player who EXCELLED a few seasons make it than a Marcus Allen or Testaverde type who had a few nice seasons, but never were the best at their position.

 
Slim chance of making it, no chance of deserving it. Terrific player, and a great guy -- but not a Hall of Famer.
Hey, Namath and Swann are in the Hall... anything's possible.For the record, "no" and "no" for me.
Namath may be hip to bash, but he's a clear Hall of Famer. Even your comrade Jason Wood has softened on his stance.
Namath won a huge game as a huge underdog, and he called his shot. For that, he gets all credit due him.But a guy who had 173 TDs and 220 INTs has no business being in the Hall.
:excited:
 
Yes & yes, IMO. And I'm not a Steeler fan.

It's called the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Stats. For that reason, Namath is in. Also for that reason Randy Moss may not be a first ballot guy (unless we see at least one or two more years like this one from him). There is more to the Hall than pure numbers, even though us fantasy guys don't seem to know anything else. Everything the Hall looks for outside of numbers, Hines Ward has.

Ward isn't just "really good" at blocking, he's been considered the best blocking WR in the league for several years running in a time period when wide receivers don't block very well. He's been on a run-first team his entire career and has still put up very good career numbers. He was a Super Bowl MVP and has been in multiple pro-bowls.

Also, I don't think this is his last season. Another couple of really good years and maybe even another Super Bowl ring and he's in without much debate.

 
Must be A LOT of Steelers fans voting here.. Its not called the Hall of Very Good...

This is for the best of the best.

Sorry folks, Hines Ward is not that. Great guy, good character, has fun, etc.. but eventually, you need the big time numbers, unless you are an integral part of 3 or 4 championships. Hines Ward has neither going for him.
You mean like 112 catches for 1,329 yards and 12 TD's?
 
yes.. he does.. he's everything the NFL looks for in a player and more... he never says a word... always has a smile on his face... even if he gets nailed going up the middle which he has no problem doing and never says a word or if he catches a 50 yard pass. This guy is a very classy guy and im a huge fan of his. I've been saying it for the longest and not just because madden repeated it... he is a complete player for his position... the definition of a team player. He's not a Moss that if the call in the huddle isn't his number he takes the play off... he picks a guy and hits him.. he might not put up the exact catches of the Holt's of the world.. but in reality he isn't that far off... the fact that he puts up the same stats about a tier under them and plays his ### off... i think he's a poster boy for the HOF honestly.

 
Must be A LOT of Steelers fans voting here.. Its not called the Hall of Very Good...

This is for the best of the best.

Sorry folks, Hines Ward is not that. Great guy, good character, has fun, etc.. but eventually, you need the big time numbers, unless you are an integral part of 3 or 4 championships. Hines Ward has neither going for him.
You mean like 112 catches for 1,329 yards and 12 TD's?
That was one season. One season does not make one a HoFer. Ward only has four 1,000 seasons, and two of those were barely over 1,000.
yes.. he does.. he's everything the NFL looks for in a player and more... he never says a word... always has a smile on his face... even if he gets nailed going up the middle which he has no problem doing and never says a word or if he catches a 50 yard pass. This guy is a very classy guy and im a huge fan of his. I've been saying it for the longest and not just because madden repeated it... he is a complete player for his position... the definition of a team player. He's not a Moss that if the call in the huddle isn't his number he takes the play off... he picks a guy and hits him.. he might not put up the exact catches of the Holt's of the world.. but in reality he isn't that far off... the fact that he puts up the same stats about a tier under them and plays his ### off... i think he's a poster boy for the HOF honestly.
You miss the story where he was voted by fellow players to be the dirtiest player in the league?
 
Must be A LOT of Steelers fans voting here.. Its not called the Hall of Very Good...

This is for the best of the best.

Sorry folks, Hines Ward is not that. Great guy, good character, has fun, etc.. but eventually, you need the big time numbers, unless you are an integral part of 3 or 4 championships. Hines Ward has neither going for him.
You mean like 112 catches for 1,329 yards and 12 TD's?
That was one season. One season does not make one a HoFer. Ward only has four 1,000 seasons, and two of those were barely over 1,000.
yes.. he does.. he's everything the NFL looks for in a player and more... he never says a word... always has a smile on his face... even if he gets nailed going up the middle which he has no problem doing and never says a word or if he catches a 50 yard pass. This guy is a very classy guy and im a huge fan of his. I've been saying it for the longest and not just because madden repeated it... he is a complete player for his position... the definition of a team player. He's not a Moss that if the call in the huddle isn't his number he takes the play off... he picks a guy and hits him.. he might not put up the exact catches of the Holt's of the world.. but in reality he isn't that far off... the fact that he puts up the same stats about a tier under them and plays his ### off... i think he's a poster boy for the HOF honestly.
You miss the story where he was voted by fellow players to be the dirtiest player in the league?
i thought that was R. Harrison?
 
No chance unless he becomes drastically better in the next few years. He is good, but only 3-4 guys at each position per era have a chance at the Hall. TO, Moss, Harrison are the ones that get in the Hall from this era. He is nowhere near these guys level and will hardly get a look until maybe the veterans committee.

Then, the fact that most teams consider him a DIRTY player that takes cheap shots on his blocks will keep him from getting voted in by his peers.

 
Must be A LOT of Steelers fans voting here.. Its not called the Hall of Very Good...

This is for the best of the best.

Sorry folks, Hines Ward is not that. Great guy, good character, has fun, etc.. but eventually, you need the big time numbers, unless you are an integral part of 3 or 4 championships. Hines Ward has neither going for him.
You mean like 112 catches for 1,329 yards and 12 TD's?
That was one season. One season does not make one a HoFer. Ward only has four 1,000 seasons, and two of those were barely over 1,000.
I was simply giving an example. Apparently you don't think that qualifies as big time numbers.Please expound on what qualifies as "big time".

yes.. he does.. he's everything the NFL looks for in a player and more... he never says a word... always has a smile on his face... even if he gets nailed going up the middle which he has no problem doing and never says a word or if he catches a 50 yard pass. This guy is a very classy guy and im a huge fan of his. I've been saying it for the longest and not just because madden repeated it... he is a complete player for his position... the definition of a team player. He's not a Moss that if the call in the huddle isn't his number he takes the play off... he picks a guy and hits him.. he might not put up the exact catches of the Holt's of the world.. but in reality he isn't that far off... the fact that he puts up the same stats about a tier under them and plays his ### off... i think he's a poster boy for the HOF honestly.
You miss the story where he was voted by fellow players to be the dirtiest player in the league?
So was John Stockton in his heyday.Being considered dirty by the opposing team isn't necessarily a bad thing...especially in football.

 

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