Is it Clemen(s)time yet? (1 Viewer)

[brindrod]

Jets lost another one. Pennington did not play bad but the question is; did he play well?

At 1-6, when does Mangini stick his head out his butt and realize that his team is not going anywhere with Pennington at the helm? Granted the Bengals have a high octane offense but if the Browns can score a plenty, why not the Jets?

 

[[scooter]]

Jets lost another one. Pennington did not play bad but the question is; did he play well?

Yes.

 

[Chaka]

Jets lost another one. Pennington did not play bad but the question is; did he play well?

Yes.

Right up until the pick-six that ended the game for the Jets.He telegraphed his radar lock on Coles and, well, game over.I like Chad, very bright QB, above average decision maker (mostly) but he doesn't have the skill set necessary to win anymore.

 

[loose circuits]

Jets lost another one. Pennington did not play bad but the question is; did he play well?

Yes.

Right up until the pick-six that ended the game for the Jets.He telegraphed his radar lock on Coles and, well, game over.I like Chad, very bright QB, above average decision maker (mostly) but he doesn't have the skill set necessary to win anymore.

If by skill set, you mean Curtis Martin you hit the nail on the head. Dude rode the coattails of Martin and then got lucky last year. He's always been a decent game manager, but he never really had the arm strength. After 2 major injuries he definitely doesn't. Now is the time for Clemens. He's a gamer and every game they wait he's missing valuable in game experience. No clue why Mangini is being stubborn.

 

[[scooter]]

Now is the time for Clemens. He's a gamer and every game they wait he's missing valuable in game experience.

Ridiculous.

 

[brindrod]

Now is the time for Clemens. He's a gamer and every game they wait he's missing valuable in game experience.

Ridiculous.

Care to elobarate or should we just take your God given word that it is? Stop acting like a troll and contribute something viable as a counter-arguement.

 

[SKribbles]

Jets lost another one. Pennington did not play bad but the question is; did he play well?

Yes.

Right up until the pick-six that ended the game for the Jets.He telegraphed his radar lock on Coles and, well, game over.

I like Chad, very bright QB, above average decision maker (mostly) but he doesn't have the skill set necessary to win anymore.

If by skill set, you mean Curtis Martin you hit the nail on the head. Dude rode the coattails of Martin and then got lucky last year. He's always been a decent game manager, but he never really had the arm strength. After 2 major injuries he definitely doesn't. Now is the time for Clemens. He's a gamer and every game they wait he's missing valuable in game experience. No clue why Mangini is being stubborn.

Please explain how a QB can get lucky for an entire season.TIA

 

[loose circuits]

Now is the time for Clemens. He's a gamer and every game they wait he's missing valuable in game experience.

Ridiculous.

Is that right? Should they really keep tossing Pennington out there? What purpose does that serve? This is obviously a rebuilding team...I'll be honest. I own Clemens in a dynasty and Cotchery in a redraft so I am a little bias, but to just say that's ridiculous is more ridiculous than anything...

 

[DarabZarrabi]

Now is the time for Clemens. He's a gamer and every game they wait he's missing valuable in game experience.

Ridiculous.

How is that Ridiculous Pats have basically already clinched that division and the Jets arent making the playoffs...they should turn the reins to Clemens and let him grow...build for 08-09

 

[Kiddnets]

At 1-6 I really dont think they have much to lose by putting the kid in - the loss today was not Chad's fault but rather an atrocious defensive display. However, with the season at a loss its time to see what the kid can do - one thing has to comne out of this season - is KC the next QB or do they have to spend their top 10 pick oin a QB,,

 

[loose circuits]

Jets lost another one. Pennington did not play bad but the question is; did he play well?

Yes.

Right up until the pick-six that ended the game for the Jets.He telegraphed his radar lock on Coles and, well, game over.

I like Chad, very bright QB, above average decision maker (mostly) but he doesn't have the skill set necessary to win anymore.

If by skill set, you mean Curtis Martin you hit the nail on the head. Dude rode the coattails of Martin and then got lucky last year. He's always been a decent game manager, but he never really had the arm strength. After 2 major injuries he definitely doesn't. Now is the time for Clemens. He's a gamer and every game they wait he's missing valuable in game experience. No clue why Mangini is being stubborn.

Please explain how a QB can get lucky for an entire season.TIA

I'm not saying he got lucky for the entire season, but the Jets did get lucky to sneak in the playoffs last year and some things went their way. For example the 20 yard catch to Cotchery that he freakishly didn't touch a knee on and turned it into a TD. Also, Cotchery emerging helped him out tremendously. Last I checked Pennington barely averaged 200 yards a game last year and had 1 more TD than pick. To win enough games in the AFC to make the playoffs was lucky however you want to look at it. Especially considering they didn't even really have a true RB or a great D

 

[[scooter]]

Now is the time for Clemens. He's a gamer and every game they wait he's missing valuable in game experience.

Ridiculous.

How is that Ridiculous

It's ridiculous to think that Clemens' development is being hampered by sitting on the bench.

 

[Kiddnets]

Jets lost another one. Pennington did not play bad but the question is; did he play well?

Yes.

Right up until the pick-six that ended the game for the Jets.He telegraphed his radar lock on Coles and, well, game over.

I like Chad, very bright QB, above average decision maker (mostly) but he doesn't have the skill set necessary to win anymore.

If by skill set, you mean Curtis Martin you hit the nail on the head. Dude rode the coattails of Martin and then got lucky last year. He's always been a decent game manager, but he never really had the arm strength. After 2 major injuries he definitely doesn't. Now is the time for Clemens. He's a gamer and every game they wait he's missing valuable in game experience. No clue why Mangini is being stubborn.

Please explain how a QB can get lucky for an entire season.TIA

I'm not saying he got lucky for the entire season, but the Jets did get lucky to sneak in the playoffs last year and some things went their way. For example the 20 yard catch to Cotchery that he freakishly didn't touch a knee on and turned it into a TD. Also, Cotchery emerging helped him out tremendously. Last I checked Pennington barely averaged 200 yards a game last year and had 1 more TD than pick. To win enough games in the AFC to make the playoffs was lucky however you want to look at it. Especially considering they didn't even really have a true RB or a great D

Jets made the playoffs last year due to a cake walk schedule and no injuries - this was the year they should have had last year!

 

[loose circuits]

Now is the time for Clemens. He's a gamer and every game they wait he's missing valuable in game experience.

Ridiculous.

How is that Ridiculous

It's ridiculous to think that Clemens' development is being hampered by sitting on the bench.

not at all. Nothing better than learning with live bullets. I completely disagree. You can only learn so much sitting and watching a QB with a dead arm...

 

[[scooter]]

Last I checked Pennington barely averaged 200 yards a game last year and had 1 more TD than pick.

Pennington averaged more yards per game than Hasselbeck, Rivers, Delhomme, Eli Manning and Cutler.

 

[loose circuits]

Jets lost another one. Pennington did not play bad but the question is; did he play well?

Yes.

Right up until the pick-six that ended the game for the Jets.He telegraphed his radar lock on Coles and, well, game over.

I like Chad, very bright QB, above average decision maker (mostly) but he doesn't have the skill set necessary to win anymore.

If by skill set, you mean Curtis Martin you hit the nail on the head. Dude rode the coattails of Martin and then got lucky last year. He's always been a decent game manager, but he never really had the arm strength. After 2 major injuries he definitely doesn't. Now is the time for Clemens. He's a gamer and every game they wait he's missing valuable in game experience. No clue why Mangini is being stubborn.

Please explain how a QB can get lucky for an entire season.TIA

I'm not saying he got lucky for the entire season, but the Jets did get lucky to sneak in the playoffs last year and some things went their way. For example the 20 yard catch to Cotchery that he freakishly didn't touch a knee on and turned it into a TD. Also, Cotchery emerging helped him out tremendously. Last I checked Pennington barely averaged 200 yards a game last year and had 1 more TD than pick. To win enough games in the AFC to make the playoffs was lucky however you want to look at it. Especially considering they didn't even really have a true RB or a great D

Jets made the playoffs last year due to a cake walk schedule and no injuries - this was the year they should have had last year!

well having an easy schedule and not having any major injuries takes a little luck so I guess we agree.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Pennington and Coles were the only players who did anything worth a damn today. At least Pennington played with heart and showed some gusto out there today; I think the LSU defense could have done a better job out there than what the Jets did. Just pathetic.

 

[loose circuits]

Last I checked Pennington barely averaged 200 yards a game last year and had 1 more TD than pick.

Pennington averaged more yards per game than Hasselbeck, Rivers, Delhomme, Eli Manning and Cutler.

I wouldn't say any of those guys had a good year, would you? I am not sure what your point is...all 5 of those guys had disappointing seasons...

 

[[scooter]]

Now is the time for Clemens. He's a gamer and every game they wait he's missing valuable in game experience.

Ridiculous.

How is that Ridiculous

It's ridiculous to think that Clemens' development is being hampered by sitting on the bench.

not at all. Nothing better than learning with live bullets. I completely disagree.

Akili Smith, Cade McNown, Tim Couch, Joey Harrington, David Carr, Kyle Boller, Ryan Leaf, Tommy Maddox, Rick Mirer, Heath Shuler, Danny Wuerffel, Danny Kanell, Chad Hutchinson, Chris Weinke, Patrick Ramsey, Shawn King, Quincy Carter.

 

[Chaka]

Now is the time for Clemens. He's a gamer and every game they wait he's missing valuable in game experience.

Ridiculous.

How is that Ridiculous

It's ridiculous to think that Clemens' development is being hampered by sitting on the bench.

not at all. Nothing better than learning with live bullets. I completely disagree.

Akili Smith, Cade McNown, Tim Couch, Joey Harrington, David Carr, Kyle Boller, Ryan Leaf, Tommy Maddox, Rick Mirer, Heath Shuler, Danny Wuerffel, Danny Kanell, Chad Hutchinson, Chris Weinke, Patrick Ramsey, Shawn King, Quincy Carter.

Clemmens may be just like any one of these guys but Kiddnets said it best.

...one thing has to come out of this season - is KC the next QB or do they have to spend their top 10 pick on a QB.

Edited for spelling.

 

[Chaka]

Pennington brings nothing to this team this season. He may still be able to lead a team with a solid running game and defense but this Jets team is simply not that kind of team and by the time it is, Chad's arm strength will probably be even worse than it is today.

He doesn't scare defenses and he still threw a game killing INT against one of the worst defenses in the league to end the game. Sure he had a nice statistical game and put his team in position to win, but while Cinci was running up 21 consecutive points a better QB would have been engineering long time consuming drives to salt away a victory.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Pennington brings nothing to this team this season. He may still be able to lead a team with a solid running game and defense but this Jets team is simply not that kind of team and by the time it is, Chad's arm strength will probably be even worse than it is today.

He doesn't scare defenses and he still threw a game killing INT against one of the worst defenses in the league to end the game. Sure he had a nice statistical game and put his team in position to win, but while Cinci was running up 21 consecutive points a better QB would have been engineering long time consuming drives to salt away a victory.

Additionally, Pennington is terrible at stopping the run.

 

[Phlash]

Pennington and Coles were the only players who did anything worth a damn today. At least Pennington played with heart and showed some gusto out there today; I think the LSU defense could have done a better job out there than what the Jets did. Just pathetic.

Chase, no offense to your fanbase, but I think you are one of the few Jets fans who looks at things objectively.When I go to theganggreen.com, the posters there are like Red Sox fan - every score by the opposition is the end of the game, every touchdown by the team is a massive victory.Most of the those guys are ready to throw Pennington under the bus, but he's one of the few guys on that team who gives a damn right now. Pulling him would not be a precedent - if you're playing good, you get pulled? Thats just ridiculous.

 

[Chaka]

Pennington brings nothing to this team this season. He may still be able to lead a team with a solid running game and defense but this Jets team is simply not that kind of team and by the time it is, Chad's arm strength will probably be even worse than it is today.

He doesn't scare defenses and he still threw a game killing INT against one of the worst defenses in the league to end the game. Sure he had a nice statistical game and put his team in position to win, but while Cinci was running up 21 consecutive points a better QB would have been engineering long time consuming drives to salt away a victory.

Additionally, Pennington is terrible at stopping the run.

See? He's got to go.Seriously though he couldn't complete a 10 yard out against a prevent defense because when he is in there the DBs only have lay off about 5 yards in the prevent.

I love his smarts and competitiveness but he simply doesn't have the arm. I actually feel bad for him because he may be the smartest QB in the NFL but his body is letting him down.

 

[Chaka]

...if you're playing good, you get pulled? Thats just ridiculous.

He has a great completion percentage but his 9:7 TD:INT ratio is meh and needed the woeful Cinci secondary to improve that from 6:6.And his 6.7 YPA is also meh.Question: Who thinks Chad Pennington is the quarterback of the future for the Jets? If you do, how many more years could he lead this team?

 

[[scooter]]

...if you're playing good, you get pulled? Thats just ridiculous.

He has a great completion percentage but his 9:7 TD:INT ratio is meh and needed the woeful Cinci secondary to improve that from 6:6.And his 6.7 YPA is also meh.Question: Who thinks Chad Pennington is the quarterback of the future for the Jets? If you do, how many more years could he lead this team?

Replace "Pennington" with "Favre" and "Jets" with "Packers" and get back to me.

 

[Chaka]

...if you're playing good, you get pulled? Thats just ridiculous.

He has a great completion percentage but his 9:7 TD:INT ratio is meh and needed the woeful Cinci secondary to improve that from 6:6.And his 6.7 YPA is also meh.Question: Who thinks Chad Pennington is the quarterback of the future for the Jets? If you do, how many more years could he lead this team?

Replace "Pennington" with "Favre" and get back to me.

Perhaps I will get back to you in the "Is it Rodger(s) time yet?" thread. Otherwise quit ducking the questions.In the limited time I have paid attention to your post's [scooter] (i.e. this thread) I have come to the conclusion that you bring very little to the table.

 

[[scooter]]

...if you're playing good, you get pulled? Thats just ridiculous.

He has a great completion percentage but his 9:7 TD:INT ratio is meh and needed the woeful Cinci secondary to improve that from 6:6.And his 6.7 YPA is also meh.

Question: Who thinks Chad Pennington is the quarterback of the future for the Jets? If you do, how many more years could he lead this team?

Replace "Pennington" with "Favre" and get back to me.

Perhaps I will get back to you in the "Is it Rodger(s) time yet?" thread. Otherwise quit ducking the questions.In the limited time I have paid attention to your post's [scooter] (i.e. this thread) I have come to the conclusion that you bring very little to the table.

Sorry if you don't like facts and objectivity being brought to the table. But feel free to be among the Jets homers that let their emotions get the better of them (young Skywalker....)- Someone said Pennington should be benched because of his low YPG; I brought facts showing that YPG alone is not a reason to bench a QB.

- Someone said "live bullets" were the best way for a young QB to learn the game; I brought facts in the form of 17 players who did not benefit from the "live bullet method".

(But hey, feel free to provide a list of 18 recent QBs who did benefit from this method.)

- Someone said Pennington should be benched because he's not the future of the franchise; I brought objectivity.

The irony of this situation is that the Jets fans made the exact same arguments in 2000 and 2001, when Pennington himself was riding the pine. Thank goodness Herm Edwards had the patience to keep Pennington on the bench where he belonged, otherwise his career might have flamed out like the other 17 QBs that I listed.

 

[NYCGangGreen]

...if you're playing good, you get pulled? Thats just ridiculous.

He has a great completion percentage but his 9:7 TD:INT ratio is meh and needed the woeful Cinci secondary to improve that from 6:6.And his 6.7 YPA is also meh.Question: Who thinks Chad Pennington is the quarterback of the future for the Jets? If you do, how many more years could he lead this team?

I'm not done with Chad yet. Clemens has played well in pre-season, and looked decent vs. Balt. , but I am not ready to put my hopes on his shoulders yet. Chad has been able to get this team into the playoffs more often than not ( not this year though of course), and even if this season is over and they put Clemens in, next year there will be mayhem if Mangini decides to have an open shot at the spot for Chad and Kellen, and Chad wins it outright.I dont mind giving the kid some work this year to get adjusted for the future, but i'm not ready to crown him QB of the future.

 

[mdog1967]

Now is the time for Clemens. He's a gamer and every game they wait he's missing valuable in game experience.

Ridiculous.

Chad quit posting, its nothing personnal, your just not gonna cut it anymore.

 

[mdog1967]

...if you're playing good, you get pulled? Thats just ridiculous.

He has a great completion percentage but his 9:7 TD:INT ratio is meh and needed the woeful Cinci secondary to improve that from 6:6.And his 6.7 YPA is also meh.

Question: Who thinks Chad Pennington is the quarterback of the future for the Jets? If you do, how many more years could he lead this team?

Replace "Pennington" with "Favre" and get back to me.

Perhaps I will get back to you in the "Is it Rodger(s) time yet?" thread. Otherwise quit ducking the questions.In the limited time I have paid attention to your post's [scooter] (i.e. this thread) I have come to the conclusion that you bring very little to the table.

Sorry if you don't like facts and objectivity being brought to the table. But feel free to be among the Jets homers that let their emotions get the better of them (young Skywalker....)- Someone said Pennington should be benched because of his low YPG; I brought facts showing that YPG alone is not a reason to bench a QB.

- Someone said "live bullets" were the best way for a young QB to learn the game; I brought facts in the form of 17 players who did not benefit from the "live bullet method".

(But hey, feel free to provide a list of 18 recent QBs who did benefit from this method.)

- Someone said Pennington should be benched because he's not the future of the franchise; I brought objectivity.

The irony of this situation is that the Jets fans made the exact same arguments in 2000 and 2001, when Pennington himself was riding the pine. Thank goodness Herm Edwards had the patience to keep Pennington on the bench where he belonged, otherwise his career might have flamed out like the other 17 QBs that I listed.

His career has already flamed out, so make that 18 QB's. One gimpy ride into the playoffs do not a QB make.

 

[zamboni]

At 1-6 I really dont think they have much to lose by putting the kid in - the loss today was not Chad's fault but rather an atrocious defensive display. However, with the season at a loss its time to see what the kid can do - one thing has to comne out of this season - is KC the next QB or do they have to spend their top 10 pick oin a QB,,

That's probably the only true reason to put Clemens in - to see what he can do in order to assess the future.Too much blame is being put on Chad - he definitely hasn't played well for the most part, but he's not the one who's allergic to other teams' QBs, can't tackle, or can't stop the run. THAT's where the team is getting crushed.

 

[softball]

Mort reported teams called the Jets to see if Chad was avaialble.

I like him, and think the calls for Clemens are a joke, please let me know what it is you have seen in Kellen that makes you think he's ready.

And if you reference the Ravens game, you don't know what you're talking/looking at.

Chad is good, he was damn good last year (but that was a whole 12 months ago). The team overall is not playing as well as it did against an easier 2006 schedule, the D' is just terrible the RBs are not doing much and the OL is weakened.

Yes, Chad clearly has weaker arm strength, but thats not why the Jets are losing.

Keep him in, see if you can trade him for anything in the off season to a team like......

Kansas City (please don' make me connect the dots)

 

[zamboni]

Keep him in, see if you can trade him for anything in the off season to a team like......Kansas City (please don' make me connect the dots)

Interesting - I never thought of that possibility, but certainly not out of the question whatsoever.

 

[Wilbur Wood]

I stoked the fires a few weeks ago with an inflammatory post labeled "Fire Mangini/Bench Chad" aimed at getting the discussion going but driven by the fact that both the JETS coaching staff and QB had had AWFUL seasons throught the first 5 games.

Now with 2 more games in the books, not much has changed.

I agree that yesterday Chad looked a lot better than in prior weeks against an awful Cincy defense. Chad did make 2 critical mistakes -- he missed Coles on what should have been a key 3rd TD pass in the 2nd half and the listless interception was a killer. His stats were also a bit padded thanks to a meaningless hail mary TD pass at game end.

Bench Chad off his Cincy game performance? NO, there were much bigger culprits in yesterday's loss. However, bench Chad off his cumulative 2007 body of work? YES. His weak are and over-reliance on 4 yard out patterns is rendering the JETS offense ineffective. Moreover, what had been a key strength of the "vintage Chad", that being clutch play and getting the team in the end zone when it really matters has completely vanished in 2007. Clemens needs several real games this year to get experience and let management see if he is the QB on which to build. Chad can still be effective in the right situation, such as QB-ing the 2006 Bears or Ravens (although God bless him in throwing in the windy confines of Soldier Field late in the year).

Now to the coaching staff. Another "F" grade for Boy Wonder. Mangini's defense with the same or better personnel in 2007 is much worse than it was in 2006. Mangini is suppos to be a "defensive expert". The JETS are a "soft" team. The conservative shell that the JETS went into in the 2nd half yesterday was inexcusable. They had a lead and tried to milk it, with all fans knowing full well that the Bengals were going to put more points on the board. Chad had a very effective passing day in the first half that was throttled down big time in the 2nd half.

This was another "winnable" game for the JETS yesterday, along with earlier games vs. the Giants, Bills and Eagles. In all 4 of these losses the JETS have not looked like a "well coached" team. I know that a lot of folks like the notion of having a young coach on which we can build, but at some point he needs to be able stablize the team in the 2007 season. Simply letting things spiral into a 2-14 season should be unacceptbable. I guess at least we don't have to worry about Brian Schottenheimer getting head coaching offers this off season.

 

[Koya]

Jets lost another one. Pennington did not play bad but the question is; did he play well?

Yes.

Right up until the pick-six that ended the game for the Jets.He telegraphed his radar lock on Coles and, well, game over.I like Chad, very bright QB, above average decision maker (mostly) but he doesn't have the skill set necessary to win anymore.

Chad has the SAME skill set he has ALWAYS had. Your statement about him not having the kill set anymore makes no sense whatsoever.He may no longer be a winning QB, but his skill set is no different than it's always been.

 

[Wilbur Wood]

Jets lost another one. Pennington did not play bad but the question is; did he play well?

Yes.

Right up until the pick-six that ended the game for the Jets.He telegraphed his radar lock on Coles and, well, game over.I like Chad, very bright QB, above average decision maker (mostly) but he doesn't have the skill set necessary to win anymore.

Chad has the SAME skill set he has ALWAYS had. Your statement about him not having the kill set anymore makes no sense whatsoever.He may no longer be a winning QB, but his skill set is no different than it's always been.

I am not sure how anyone can make this statement given that he has had shoulder surgery twice on his throwing arm and many of his throws have less zip then they did earlier in his career. Also, "smart decision making" was a core piece of the Vintage Chad skill set, this has been lacking in his 2007 body of work.

 

[Kiddnets]

I stoked the fires a few weeks ago with an inflammatory post labeled "Fire Mangini/Bench Chad" aimed at getting the discussion going but driven by the fact that both the JETS coaching staff and QB had had AWFUL seasons throught the first 5 games.Now with 2 more games in the books, not much has changed.I agree that yesterday Chad looked a lot better than in prior weeks against an awful Cincy defense. Chad did make 2 critical mistakes -- he missed Coles on what should have been a key 3rd TD pass in the 2nd half and the listless interception was a killer. His stats were also a bit padded thanks to a meaningless hail mary TD pass at game end. Bench Chad off his Cincy game performance? NO, there were much bigger culprits in yesterday's loss. However, bench Chad off his cumulative 2007 body of work? YES. His weak are and over-reliance on 4 yard out patterns is rendering the JETS offense ineffective. Moreover, what had been a key strength of the "vintage Chad", that being clutch play and getting the team in the end zone when it really matters has completely vanished in 2007. Clemens needs several real games this year to get experience and let management see if he is the QB on which to build. Chad can still be effective in the right situation, such as QB-ing the 2006 Bears or Ravens (although God bless him in throwing in the windy confines of Soldier Field late in the year).Now to the coaching staff. Another "F" grade for Boy Wonder. Mangini's defense with the same or better personnel in 2007 is much worse than it was in 2006. Mangini is suppos to be a "defensive expert". The JETS are a "soft" team. The conservative shell that the JETS went into in the 2nd half yesterday was inexcusable. They had a lead and tried to milk it, with all fans knowing full well that the Bengals were going to put more points on the board. Chad had a very effective passing day in the first half that was throttled down big time in the 2nd half. This was another "winnable" game for the JETS yesterday, along with earlier games vs. the Giants, Bills and Eagles. In all 4 of these losses the JETS have not looked like a "well coached" team. I know that a lot of folks like the notion of having a young coach on which we can build, but at some point he needs to be able stablize the team in the 2007 season. Simply letting things spiral into a 2-14 season should be unacceptbable. I guess at least we don't have to worry about Brian Schottenheimer getting head coaching offers this off season.

Coaching and defense has been a much bigger problem than QB so far this season! AwfulI agree that Chad should not be benched based on this past game but more circumstance at this point - the season is over and you know what Penny can do - its time to see what the kid can do. If he shows nothing you have to find a QB in 2008 cause while Penny is decent he needs a top def and running game to win - Jets dont have that right now - maybe a team like KC would be good for him. Penny rode the bench for 2.5 seasons before getting his chance - KC has been learning for a season and a half - dont think its quite throwing the kid to the wolves to let him play.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Now is the time for Clemens. He's a gamer and every game they wait he's missing valuable in game experience.

Ridiculous.

Despite the very long and obvious track record of non 1st round, non late round (or UDFA) QBs having no success whatsoever in the NFL the last 15 years, people come out every year and hype up guys like Clemens, Brodie Croyle, Charlie Frye whatever.I'll take the side that says 99% of the time successful QBs are either early first rounders (everyone saw it coming) or last round/UDFA (everyone had it wrong). The guys that the scouts peg as okay but not great end up in the 2-4th rounds and rarely do anything in the NFL. I can only think of two exceptions the last 15 years. Favre and Brees. I'm sure there are a couple others, but it's pretty obvious that everyone sees these mid rounders coming and all they see is "mediocre backup at best".I'm sure Clemens is the exception though.

 

[Kiddnets]

Now is the time for Clemens. He's a gamer and every game they wait he's missing valuable in game experience.

Ridiculous.

Despite the very long and obvious track record of non 1st round, non late round (or UDFA) QBs having no success whatsoever in the NFL the last 15 years, people come out every year and hype up guys like Clemens, Brodie Croyle, Charlie Frye whatever.I'll take the side that says 99% of the time successful QBs are either early first rounders (everyone saw it coming) or last round/UDFA (everyone had it wrong). The guys that the scouts peg as okay but not great end up in the 2-4th rounds and rarely do anything in the NFL. I can only think of two exceptions the last 15 years. Favre and Brees. I'm sure there are a couple others, but it's pretty obvious that everyone sees these mid rounders coming and all they see is "mediocre backup at best".I'm sure Clemens is the exception though.

Theres lots of exceptions:I belive Brady, Hassleback, Brees, Bulger, Garcia all were not top picks nor last rd UFA and have been solid starters in the league. Even if you are correct - is that a reason not to give the kid a chance? Plus a mid 2nd rd pick is not a mid rder in my eyes - he was something like the 4th QB off the board after Young, Leinart, Cutler..

 

[J R]

Now is the time for Clemens. He's a gamer and every game they wait he's missing valuable in game experience.

Ridiculous.

Despite the very long and obvious track record of non 1st round, non late round (or UDFA) QBs having no success whatsoever in the NFL the last 15 years, people come out every year and hype up guys like Clemens, Brodie Croyle, Charlie Frye whatever.I'll take the side that says 99% of the time successful QBs are either early first rounders (everyone saw it coming) or last round/UDFA (everyone had it wrong). The guys that the scouts peg as okay but not great end up in the 2-4th rounds and rarely do anything in the NFL. I can only think of two exceptions the last 15 years. Favre and Brees. I'm sure there are a couple others, but it's pretty obvious that everyone sees these mid rounders coming and all they see is "mediocre backup at best".I'm sure Clemens is the exception though.

Interesting - I hope others chime in on this point. I just went through some recent drafts after reading your post. The 2nd and 3rd round picks look pretty bad with Griese, Brees and Schaub as the only successes, and Brees missed the 1st rd by 1 slot. But I also didn't find many QBs picked in the 2nd round. I think none between 2002-2005.1998: Batch, Quinn, Griese1999: King, B.Huard2000: Carmazzi, Redman2001: Brees, Carter, Tuiasasopo2002: McCown2003: Ragone, Simms2004: Schaub2005: Frye, Walter, Greene

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Unless Clemens plays D, Im not realy sure what the gripe with Chad is.

later in the season make the switch, but right now, I dunno

 

[Koya]

Jets lost another one. Pennington did not play bad but the question is; did he play well?

Yes.

Right up until the pick-six that ended the game for the Jets.He telegraphed his radar lock on Coles and, well, game over.I like Chad, very bright QB, above average decision maker (mostly) but he doesn't have the skill set necessary to win anymore.

Chad has the SAME skill set he has ALWAYS had. Your statement about him not having the kill set anymore makes no sense whatsoever.He may no longer be a winning QB, but his skill set is no different than it's always been.

I am not sure how anyone can make this statement given that he has had shoulder surgery twice on his throwing arm and many of his throws have less zip then they did earlier in his career. Also, "smart decision making" was a core piece of the Vintage Chad skill set, this has been lacking in his 2007 body of work.

His arm strength imo is not much different than it has always been. In regard to the decision making, you think he is dumber? He may not be playing up to his potential, and he may be forcing the issue,but the skill set remains the same - limited. But I don't see it as worse than in the past.

 

[Koya]

BTW, I stand by my previous assertion that the issue of when to replace Chad should not be about Chad. It should be about the BEST possible time to enable Clemens succeed. I believe that means after the bye to give Clemens an extra week of preperation.

 

[J R]

BTW, I stand by my previous assertion that the issue of when to replace Chad should not be about Chad. It should be about the BEST possible time to enable Clemens succeed. I believe that means after the bye to give Clemens an extra week of preperation.

I tend to agree with you Koya on the first point. I can think of other possible times Clemens could be put into the lineup though, and I bet some people would say that time is first week next season.

 

[loose circuits]

Now is the time for Clemens. He's a gamer and every game they wait he's missing valuable in game experience.

Ridiculous.

How is that Ridiculous

It's ridiculous to think that Clemens' development is being hampered by sitting on the bench.

not at all. Nothing better than learning with live bullets. I completely disagree.

Akili Smith, Cade McNown, Tim Couch, Joey Harrington, David Carr, Kyle Boller, Ryan Leaf, Tommy Maddox, Rick Mirer, Heath Shuler, Danny Wuerffel, Danny Kanell, Chad Hutchinson, Chris Weinke, Patrick Ramsey, Shawn King, Quincy Carter.

thanks for providing a list of quarterbacks that never lived up to expectations without making a point. I am sure there are good QB's that started in their 1st or 2nd year as well why don't you make a list of them too?

 

[Mister CIA]

I'm working on a song. It goes something like this -

Oh my darling

Oh my darling

Oh my darling Clemenstime

 

[Koya]

BTW, I stand by my previous assertion that the issue of when to replace Chad should not be about Chad. It should be about the BEST possible time to enable Clemens succeed. I believe that means after the bye to give Clemens an extra week of preperation.

I tend to agree with you Koya on the first point. I can think of other possible times Clemens could be put into the lineup though, and I bet some people would say that time is first week next season.

As to WHEN you think it is best for Clemens is up for debate. The coaching staff certainly knows a LOT more about this than we do, because we do not have the opportunity to watch Clemens practice. We don't know about his development nor mental state. That is why I tend to THINK after the bye is best, but perhaps a week defense beforehand might be suitable if the coaches feel he is ready.This has been my contention for about a month, however - it is no longer about when to Pull Chad but rather when is best to train Kellen.

 

[TommyGilmore]

Now is the time for Clemens. He's a gamer and every game they wait he's missing valuable in game experience.

Ridiculous.

How is that Ridiculous

It's ridiculous to think that Clemens' development is being hampered by sitting on the bench.

not at all. Nothing better than learning with live bullets. I completely disagree.

Akili Smith, Cade McNown, Tim Couch, Joey Harrington, David Carr, Kyle Boller, Ryan Leaf, Tommy Maddox, Rick Mirer, Heath Shuler, Danny Wuerffel, Danny Kanell, Chad Hutchinson, Chris Weinke, Patrick Ramsey, Shawn King, Quincy Carter.

thanks for providing a list of quarterbacks that never lived up to expectations without making a point. I am sure there are good QB's that started in their 1st or 2nd year as well why don't you make a list of them too?

Is there a list of recent young QBs who benefited from "learning with live bullets"? Aikman, Manning, ummmmm.....anyone else? Roethlisberger? List seems pretty short to me.

 

[switz]

Jets lost another one. Pennington did not play bad but the question is; did he play well?

Yes.

Right up until the pick-six that ended the game for the Jets.He telegraphed his radar lock on Coles and, well, game over.I like Chad, very bright QB, above average decision maker (mostly) but he doesn't have the skill set necessary to win anymore.

If by skill set, you mean Curtis Martin you hit the nail on the head. Dude rode the coattails of Martin and then got lucky last year. He's always been a decent game manager, but he never really had the arm strength. After 2 major injuries he definitely doesn't. Now is the time for Clemens. He's a gamer and every game they wait he's missing valuable in game experience. No clue why Mangini is being stubborn.

Pennington was a very good QB, and did NOT ride the coattails of Martin. However, he does need a good running game, and he has lost too much arm strength to really be good. He has a great head for the game, will make a good QB coach. Probably not a leader enough to ever be a head coach.