Is it time to consider firing Sean Peyton? (1 Viewer)

[Saints]

The Saints performance this year suggests to me that serious long term failure under Sean Peyton is a strong possibility.

Yes, I realize it's only his second year and that there are still five game remaining on this year's schedule, but as a Saints fan, I would much rather see the team cut bait NOW than stick with another loser like they did with Jim Haslett.

Consider for a moment a few Peyton's decisions:

- He let Joe Horn go. Yes, I know Horn was slowing down and having problems with injuries, but he was also a proven player and leader who often got the job come game time done despite his advancing age.

- He let Carney go -- one of the most accurate kickers of all time -- and replaced him with Olindo Mare.

- He spent a first round draft choice on Reggie Bush, who is looking more and more like a major bust; for God's sake, my granny could break tackles better than this guy. In an entire lifetime of watching football, I have NEVER seen a running back go down on first contact the way Bush does.

- He blew just about an entire draft. He used a first round pick on Robert Meachem (sp?) who has not made an impact and fourth rounder on Pittman who was cut.

- He acquired Jason David to play cornerback who has been burned multiple times for touchdowns. After watching Fred Thomas play last year, I did not think the Saints could possibly do any worse at cornerback this year, but somehow, with David, they have done just that.

- He started 0-4, lost to an 0-8 team, and has generally not has the team ready to play on several occasions this year.

If Peyton misses they playoffs this year, I think it's time to cut bait and look for another coach.

 

[oneohh]

The Saints performance this year suggests to me that serious long term failure under Sean Peyton is a strong possibility. Yes, I realize it's only his second year and that there are still five game remaining on this year's schedule, but as a Saints fan, I would much rather see the team cut bait NOW than stick with another loser like they did with Jim Haslett.Consider for a moment a few Peyton's decisions:- He let Joe Horn go. Yes, I know Horn was slowing down and having problems with injuries, but he was also a proven player and leader who often got the job come game time done despite his advancing age.- He let Carney go -- one of the most accurate kickers of all time -- and replaced him with Olindo Mare.- He spent a first round draft choice on Reggie Bush, who is looking more and more like a major bust; for God's sake, my granny could break tackles better than this guy. In an entire lifetime of watching football, I have NEVER seen a running back go down on first contact the way Bush does.- He blew just about an entire draft. He used a first round pick on Robert Meachem (sp?) who has not made an impact and fourth rounder on Pittman who was cut.- He acquired Jason David to play cornerback who has been burned multiple times for touchdowns. After watching Fred Thomas play last year, I did not think the Saints could possibly do any worse at cornerback this year, but somehow, with David, they have done just that.- He started 0-4, lost to an 0-8 team, and has generally not has the team ready to play on several occasions this year.If Peyton misses they playoffs this year, I think it's time to cut bait and look for another coach.

At the very least you need someone else making those decisions - like a true general manager. I know he's the coach but you are right about one thing, that was one. bad. draft. And the David deal (allbeit in retrospect) was horrible. If Tony Dungy doesn't want you, you are worthless. Period.

 

[switz]

The Saints performance this year suggests to me that serious long term failure under Sean Peyton is a strong possibility.

From the coaching angle - NO. From the GM angle - maybe.Last year's draft wasn't bad at all, despite your opinion of Bush, he has been an excellent acquisition for NO. And this year's draft you can't grade from year 1 IMO.I agree that they need some GM help, but I think getting rid of Payton would be the wrong thing to do.

 

[shadyridr]

The Saints performance this year suggests to me that serious long term failure under Sean Peyton is a strong possibility.

Yes, I realize it's only his second year and that there are still five game remaining on this year's schedule, but as a Saints fan, I would much rather see the team cut bait NOW than stick with another loser like they did with Jim Haslett.

Consider for a moment a few Peyton's decisions:

- He let Joe Horn go. Yes, I know Horn was slowing down and having problems with injuries, but he was also a proven player and leader who often got the job come game time done despite his advancing age. This guy was ancient and making a ton of money. Looks like a good cut to me considering how hes done in ATL.

- He let Carney go -- one of the most accurate kickers of all time -- and replaced him with Olindo Mare. Replaced old with new, see nothing wrong with that

- He spent a first round draft choice on Reggie Bush, who is looking more and more like a major bust; for God's sake, my granny could break tackles better than this guy. In an entire lifetime of watching football, I have NEVER seen a running back go down on first contact the way Bush does. EVERY single coach in the league wouldve taken Bush there.

- He blew just about an entire draft. He used a first round pick on Robert Meachem (sp?) who has not made an impact and fourth rounder on Pittman who was cut. Rookie WRs often start slow

- He acquired Jason David to play cornerback who has been burned multiple times for touchdowns. After watching Fred Thomas play last year, I did not think the Saints could possibly do any worse at cornerback this year, but somehow, with David, they have done just that. Yep bad signing

- He started 0-4, lost to an 0-8 team, and has generally not has the team ready to play on several occasions this year.

If Peyton misses they playoffs this year, I think it's time to cut bait and look for another coach.

Some of your criticisms make no sense

 

[shadyridr]

He spent a 7th round choice on Marques Colston down? Easy to make a coach look bad for pointing out his bad moves and ignoring his good moves.

 

[valhallan]

Not sure he should be fired this soon, but I've had my doubts about him from day one. Here's something I posted in another thread on 10/10 when they were 0-4. Despite the mild turnaround, I still think some of this applies.

Many Saints fans, myself included, were not high on the hiring of Sean Payton prior to last season. He had a history of failure as an offensive playcaller in New York and Dallas, so why would he fare any better as a head coach? Well, some would say he proved us wrong last year but I happen to think much of the success the Saints had was due to a combination of remarkable rookie talent (Bush, Colston, and Jahri Evans at guard) that NFL teams weren't ready for and a new quarterback who was smart enough to pickup Payton's ideas quickly. Now we're in season 2 and NFL defenses have the book on these new Saints players and Payton schemes and they're ripping through the offensive line on nearly every play, whether it's a run or pass. And true to his reputation, Payton has failed to adjust to what defenses are doing. I'm not sure things will improve any time soon.

They did improve, particularly on the line. But I'm still seeing poor playcalling and the play of our secondary is just inexcusable. I can't understand how this franchise has repeatedly failed to address such a glaring weakness. Maybe it's Payton, maybe it's Loomis, but one thing is certain: this team will never win anything unless they build some talent in the back 7.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

the jury is still out for me...I have to see what happens the rest of this year

yes, they started 0-4 BUT they were also the first team ever, IIRC, to win the next 4 straight

Bush has struggled at times because (or all, perhaps) teams they face have said "Reggie will not be the one that beats us" then some still couldn't stop him

regarding Meachem and Pittman...this year saw ALOT of rookies get cut, even a first rounder (I remember at least one), so it wasn't just the Saints, sometimes picks just don't work out to be a good fit for the team

I did hate to see Horn go, but agree with shady that his salary and age were most likely the determining factors in that move

the one thing I didn't understand was taking Mare over Karney... Mare was bad in Miami, so maybe they thought he would be better in a dome? But Karney wasn't bad to start with, so I did question the thinking on that move...again, could have been a salary issue?

 

[eefflrat]

First off, as noted earlier, there are still five games, and this team is one game out of a playoff spot right now. They got off to a slow start

Secondly, any knowledgeable football observer could not criticise the Saints for taking Bush, he was the clear concensus number 1 can't miss player last year, and fell into their lap because the Texans were too cheap to pay Bush.

So he let Horn go, big deal, he let Stallowrth go because he felt that Colston was a good player, give him credit for that. Horn is old, no longer a factor, he stuck with him last year to develop Colston and it worked.

Give the guy credit for bringing Brees in.

Meachem is a first round late pick, lots of those guys don't pan out. As I said before, Colston was a 7th round pick and he is one of the best WR's in the league, so Payton deserves credit for seeing that.

I suspect the Saints will address the Jason David situation, as he has been butal.

This is a team two years removed from the second worst record in the league.

Your post is very shortsighted, and it is obvious I disagree.

FYI I am from NY and am an Eagles fan, not a Saints homer or payton lover.

 

[guderian]

The Saints performance this year suggests to me that serious long term failure under Sean Peyton is a strong possibility. Yes, I realize it's only his second year and that there are still five game remaining on this year's schedule, but as a Saints fan, I would much rather see the team cut bait NOW than stick with another loser like they did with Jim Haslett.Consider for a moment a few Peyton's decisions:- He let Joe Horn go. Yes, I know Horn was slowing down and having problems with injuries, but he was also a proven player and leader who often got the job come game time done despite his advancing age.- He let Carney go -- one of the most accurate kickers of all time -- and replaced him with Olindo Mare.- He spent a first round draft choice on Reggie Bush, who is looking more and more like a major bust; for God's sake, my granny could break tackles better than this guy. In an entire lifetime of watching football, I have NEVER seen a running back go down on first contact the way Bush does.- He blew just about an entire draft. He used a first round pick on Robert Meachem (sp?) who has not made an impact and fourth rounder on Pittman who was cut.- He acquired Jason David to play cornerback who has been burned multiple times for touchdowns. After watching Fred Thomas play last year, I did not think the Saints could possibly do any worse at cornerback this year, but somehow, with David, they have done just that.- He started 0-4, lost to an 0-8 team, and has generally not has the team ready to play on several occasions this year.If Peyton misses they playoffs this year, I think it's time to cut bait and look for another coach.

All of the decisions that you cited are those of Mickey Loomis except for the last one.

 

[renesauz]

Not a Saints fan, but it seems to me he's made more good personnel choices then bad. EVERYONE would have taken Bush where he did. Ditching Horn was a great move, and letting Stallworth go didn't seem to hurt them much either.

The Saints were the Aints not long ago. Why give up on your coach so quickly considering the "Aints" history????????

 

[guderian]

Haslett's downfall was his stubborness--he never addressed the many problems the team had. As a result, we had inconsistent QB play, numerous pre-snap penalties, the inability to tackle, and the inability to stop the run. None of those problems were EVER addressed.

I think that the success of Payton will hinge on his willingness to admit mistakes and to work to correct them. Cutting Pittman was a good sign since many coaches would have stuck with him since they drafted him. While Jason David hasn't worked out, at least they made an attempt to address the CB position. Haslett would have brought the media in and broken down film for them to show that it wasn't always Fred Thomas' fault--and done nothing else. The team has also shown considerable improvement in run defense this year.

Also, after the poor 0-4 start the Saints started blitzing much more and that also partially led to their turnaround. Haslett would have stuck to whatever wasn't working while thumbing his nose to the fans and media.

Furthermore, you said that the team didn't look prepared at times. IMO a hallmark of Payton's team is that they don't give up and they keep working hard. Other teams like the Jets, for instance, started out poorly and have continued to struggle. The Saints never gave up.

As far as the draft, it was a head scratcher. I think they bought into their success and worked too hard to add depth. The big question is what they do this off season. Will Payton be aggressive in continuing to fix problems? I think the evidence shows that he'll do that.

 

[redman]

Firing him this year would likely be the product of a gross overestimation of the implications of last year's championship game appearance. The team got an injection of much needed energy and life from some good drafting and FA signings, and from a young and innovative offensive coach. That was enough in the weaker conference to surge into the playoffs.

They're still a very good offensive team. What they need is defense and they could be dominant. It would be stupid IMHO to suddenly axe Peyton and make him, ironically enough, the victim of his own unexpected and early success.

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

saints are likely to make playoffs for 2nd year in a row, be glad u have someone who can take u to the playoffs after years of crap.

 

[swirvenirvin]

WOW.....

Also

NO

 

[Sidewinder]

The Saints performance this year suggests to me that serious long term failure under Sean Peyton is a strong possibility.

Yes, I realize it's only his second year and that there are still five game remaining on this year's schedule, but as a Saints fan, I would much rather see the team cut bait NOW than stick with another loser like they did with Jim Haslett.

Consider for a moment a few Peyton's decisions:

...

If Peyton misses they playoffs this year, I think it's time to cut bait and look for another coach.

First off, not even knowing how to spell Payton's name correctly makes me question how much knowledge you really have about the team. Secondly, I'm always skeptical of posts like this by someone with a board "join date" of today, which typically is a pretty good indication of nothing more than a trip.As a long time Saints season ticket holder, I'd be extremely dissappointed, and would seriously consider giving up my seats, if Benson fired SP after this season, playoffs or not. Maybe my view is distorted by the bungled 5 year Haslett reign, but Payton has clearly brought a level of professionalism to this team that was badly lacking under Haz. The stupid "head-up-your-butt" penalties and dumb mistakes are gone. He's got a group of players that won't quit (do you really think we'd have had a chance to win the STL game, after being down 37-7? no, Haslett's crew would have lost 51-7). Payton open and honest (at least in the sense of an NFL HC) in his dealings with the press and on his weekly radio show. He hasn't been afraid of making some tough player decisions he felt necessary to better the team.

It's way too early to say 2007 was a bad draft. Let's at least see Meachem on the field with Brees next year. Young has shown flashes of being a starting CB in the league. After a year in an NFL environment (weights, technique, etc), we'll see what we really got in Alleman and Bushrod. Sure, the Pittman pick looks bad, especially after trading up spots to get him, but they really wanted Michael Bush there, and I think they panicked a bit. Plus, the simple fact is, Pierre Thomas totally outplayed Pittman and deserved to make the team.

Sure, there were mistakes made in the off-season, Jason David obviously being the most prominent. Putting a cover-2 CB into a man system just hasn't worked. Kaesviharn has not been able to beat out Bullocks and be an impact player as was expected. Probably as critical as anything was not improving the MLB spot. But come on, talking about firing a guy in the middle of his second year, after an NFCCG appearance in year 1 and still a shot at the playoffs in year 2 ? No, the way to NFL success is coaching stability. Firing the man after 2 years would be the biggest mistake this franchise has ever made, and they've made a bunch of them over the years...

 

[CrazyHorse1581]

Can I trade you Herm Edwards for him?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Um, no.

Im pretty sure that last years team over achieved, and this is more like it, he does need to get the D fixed, but that will take some time

 

[oneohh]

Can I trade you Herm Edwards for him?

Nice.

 

[chris1969]

Saints fans must miss wearing the paper bags on their heads.

 

[The Jacket]

Can I trade you Herm Edwards for him?

As a Chiefs fan, I'd love to combine the two. Each has what the other lacks. I like Herm's eye for talent and players generally play hard for him, but he has no stones and is outcoached on gameday by just about every coach on the opposing sidelines, save a few such as Norv Turner and Brad Childress.I'm not a fan of the Saints' personnel moves over the last two seasons. But if the Chiefs could somehow bring Payton on board with a competent GM who has a good eye for talent, that'd sure be a hell of a gift.

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

It's year two of rebuilding after Haslett. Let's slow down just a tad, shall we?

Last year the team was in the NFC Championship game. This year, they're still heavily in the hunt for the playoffs despite lots of games missed by O-line and D-line. Yes, Mare looks like a bad signing. But everything else is pretty much on track.

Firing Sean Payton after one and a half years is a little silly.

 

[jchap31]

Lengthy post but as a Saints season ticket holder, it's blatantly obvious that the team had a stellar 2006 Free Agency and Draft, mainly with Bress and Bush (say what you want about the stats, but he's opening things up for other players, which doesn't show on the stat sheet.) This fact, combined with a last place schedule, made them look like gangbusters last year. This led to complacency on the part of GM Mickey Loomis (Mickey got lucky last year. His track record is less than stellar..Jonathan Sullivan or Courtney Watson anyone?). Hence the following happened:

1. We cut Carney for Mare

2. Paid 63 million to resign an average/above-average defensive end (Charles Grant)

3. Paid 12 million to resign a "backup on any other team" LB (Scott Shanle)

3. Paid 14 mil for an at-best Nickel CB (Jason David)

4. Paid starter money for MLB Brian Simmons

5. FS Kaesvihorn was signed for a modest 2 mil/year. That is reasonable backup money if he doesn't start

Jury's out on the 2007 draft. Yeah our 1st rounder hasn't played yet, but, like I said before, they looked for bargain priced starters in Free Agency and Developmental Players in the Draft because they thought that the 2006 roster could hang with the big dogs. Why rock the boat when you go 10-6?

What you are seeing this year is the result of a "sit on your hands" offseason by Loomis. The "bad" teams from last year signed guys in FA and drafted for starters and got better while we got complacent and, with a season's worth of game tape, are getting exposed.

Payton preaches starting/keeping the "best" guys. Sometimes that's true (Pierre Thomas for Antonio Pittman, passing the torch from Horn to Colston) but he's showing unfailing loyalty to guys who just aren't starting material (ala Haslett), such as MLB Mark Simoneau, WLB Scott Shanle, CB Jason David (when will he realize this is a square peg in a round hole??).

I think he is sticking with these guys until the offseason, just because its too late in the game to make major changes. He knows that they got caught with their pants down this year. I would expect the Saints to go after 1 or 2 studs instead of 3-4 bargain Free Agents this coming offseason. It took this year to learn their lesson.

The playcalling has been inconsistent and I think this has to do with McAlister going down. He had 2 offseasons to plan for the Bush/McAlister show and now that he's out, Payton is having problems scheming on the fly. I expect better planning in the offseason.

Sorry for the length, but there are 101 more reasonable alternatives to "fire Payton." If they are still a 7-9/8-8 team in 2010 then let's talk.

 

[puddy]

Season Ticket Holder and I think we have the makings of a great long-term coach in Peyton.

No coach is perfect---

I agree with you on the following points...

Meachem and Pittman MISTAKES

Stallworth is reason enough for the Saints to NEVER draft a WR from Tennessee.

He sent Pittman packing and with Deuce gone I would like to see Thomas get a lot more carries.

Stecker is not going to re-create himself and be a real force in our backfield.

Now is the time to see if Thomas can be our "Vikings AP"

Reggie Bush was and is a great pick. He is what we thought he was.

I too get frustrated with the outside screens and cutbacks instead of pushing forward and breaking tackles.

He is a great receiver...he lost a lot of his opportunities this year when Deuce went down. It has changed the way we use him.

Again, another reason to see if Thomas can take over.

Joe Horn needed to go, he isn't even a factor in Atlanta. He should have accepted a pay cut and played 1 more year with us.

Our draft should have been all about DEFENSE! David has been a ridiculous failure!

I can't watch Mare attempt to kick--We should have stayed with Carney.

Loomis is a big issue and that is where we need change.

Sean is our guy and I think he will get us back to where we belong!

In the end its always about FAITH...its who we are as SAINTS FANS!

See ya at the DOME!

 

[Saints]

<<<He sent Pittman packing and with Deuce gone I would like to see Thomas get a lot more carries.

Stecker is not going to re-create himself and be a real force in our backfield.

Now is the time to see if Thomas can be our "Vikings AP"<<<

The fact that Payton obstinately refuses to use Thomas while standing by a fifth-rate kicker and an assortment of poor to mediocre players on defense is evidence of Jim Hasslet-like thinking. That's what concerns me as a long time Saints fan.

 

[Saints]

guderian, sidewinder and other Sean Payton apologists:

I'm curious what you have to say about Payto's coaching skills now?

Who calls a double-reverse in that situation?

Although he did look promising last year, it should be clear now to EVERYBODY that Sean Payton needs to go.

 

[FavreCo]

He spent a 7th round choice on Marques Colston down? Easy to make a coach look bad for pointing out his bad moves and ignoring his good moves.

You gotta be kidding. You make it sound like he had Colston on his board as a super sleeper pick, ran to the podium and announced 'Marques Colston, I win!!! This guy is 1st rd material'. Fact is, he got lucky. That is it.As far as this Meachem clown goes, when was the last time a 1st round WR never saw the field in his 1st year? Rashaun Woods even saw the field and that hack was always thinking about fishing.

 

[Afro Samurai]

The fact that Payton obstinately refuses to use Thomas while standing by a fifth-rate kicker and an assortment of poor to mediocre players on defense is evidence of Jim Hasslet-like thinking. That's what concerns me as a long time Saints fan.

I have to agree.His stubbornness is very Haslett-like. Seem like he is dead-set on sticking with "his guys" no matter what. All that noise he made about being "unbiased" in player evaluation and he's pulling the same crap Haz always did by playing favorites.Not to mention, his bad playcalling has cost this team at least 2 wins this season, possibly more.I fear he may be Haslett 2.0. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

 

[simey]

Peyton totally turned a bad team around in his first year, and took you to a NFC Championship game, and now the Saints struggle some, and you want him fired? This year they have had some problems, but coaches learn through experience just like players. Losing McCallister definitely hurt the team, and Peyton has done a poor job at handling that situation. You live and learn. The Saints are still a way better team than they were 2 years ago, and still not out of the race for a wild card. Last years success for the Saints was completely unexpected, and it seems that success is causing a backlash to Peyton due to some of this years failures. Peyton did some crazy calls last year too, only most of them worked. Don't forget that. He also isn't the only coach who has called plays that they wish they could take back. He has helped the Saints more than he has hurt them.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The Saints performance this year suggests to me that serious long term failure under Sean Peyton is a strong possibility. Yes, I realize it's only his second year and that there are still five game remaining on this year's schedule, but as a Saints fan, I would much rather see the team cut bait NOW than stick with another loser like they did with Jim Haslett.Consider for a moment a few Peyton's decisions:- He let Joe Horn go. Yes, I know Horn was slowing down and having problems with injuries, but he was also a proven player and leader who often got the job come game time done despite his advancing age.- He let Carney go -- one of the most accurate kickers of all time -- and replaced him with Olindo Mare.- He spent a first round draft choice on Reggie Bush, who is looking more and more like a major bust; for God's sake, my granny could break tackles better than this guy. In an entire lifetime of watching football, I have NEVER seen a running back go down on first contact the way Bush does.- He blew just about an entire draft. He used a first round pick on Robert Meachem (sp?) who has not made an impact and fourth rounder on Pittman who was cut.- He acquired Jason David to play cornerback who has been burned multiple times for touchdowns. After watching Fred Thomas play last year, I did not think the Saints could possibly do any worse at cornerback this year, but somehow, with David, they have done just that.- He started 0-4, lost to an 0-8 team, and has generally not has the team ready to play on several occasions this year.If Peyton misses they playoffs this year, I think it's time to cut bait and look for another coach.

Absolulely not. The guy didn't forget how to coach a year after he was crowned in the city as the savior for Saints Football.Not even remotely in the wildest dreams should he be considered to be fired after this season. J

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'm not really that big a fan of the guy but I can't believe it's even being talked about.

Do people even remember last season?

J

 

[az_prof]

guderian, sidewinder and other Sean Payton apologists:I'm curious what you have to say about Payto's coaching skills now?Who calls a double-reverse in that situation?Although he did look promising last year, it should be clear now to EVERYBODY that Sean Payton needs to go.

No. This is foolishness. How does a guy go from being a Messianic Coach of the Year candidate to a bum in one year?As for the double-reverse, yes, in retrospect it looks dumb, but if it had gone for twenty yards you would have said it was brilliant. He made a mistake there but it hardly means he should be fired. When Colston drops a pass you don't fire him. When Brees overthrows a guy you don't bench him. Even coaches make mistakes, and that run was one. But overall when you look at the talent on that team he is getting a lot out of them. On offense right now you only have two playmakers--Colston and Bush. The defense is below average in terms of talent. As for the Meachem pick, wait a year. The vast majority of rookie WRs never do anything their first year.

 

[Green Apple Splatter]

I'm not really that big a fan of the guy but I can't believe it's even being talked about. Do people even remember last season?J

Yes, what he did last year, especially considering the Katrina disaster, automatically gives him a 1 year free pass IMO.

 

[saintfool]

i would be happy with him simply surrendering the offensive playcalling to someone. his playcalling is jeckyll & hyde, i think. we might consider a different defensive coordinator too. Gibbs, clearly, isn't getting it done.

 

[Saints]

It's getting hard to keep track of Payton's moronic decisions.

I would love to hear his reasoning for not giving Pierre Thomas the ball more often.

 

[guderian]

It's getting hard to keep track of Payton's moronic decisions.

I would love to hear his reasoning for not giving Pierre Thomas the ball more often.

Saints RB Thomas Misses Practice With Bruised KidneyNew Orleans Times-Picayune -

New Orleans Saints running back Pierre Thomas did not practice with the team on Thursday as the result of a bruised kidney. "Yes. [Thomas] had it coming away from the game and he had tests done and everything seemed alright, and then after yesterday's practice he had some more blood in his urine, so we backed off today. We'll just watch and see where he's at tomorrow," head coach Sean Payton said.

Happy to help.

It's also interesting that you give Payton zero credit for finding him in the first place...

 

[Saints]

As for the Meachem pick, wait a year. The vast majority of rookie WRs never do anything their first year.

As long as Henderson, Moore, Patten and Copper are on the team, he won't see the field. You have to go as far back as Russell Erxleben to find a worse first round draft choice .

 

[Saints]

It's getting hard to keep track of Payton's moronic decisions.

I would love to hear his reasoning for not giving Pierre Thomas the ball more often.

Saints RB Thomas Misses Practice With Bruised KidneyNew Orleans Times-Picayune -

New Orleans Saints running back Pierre Thomas did not practice with the team on Thursday as the result of a bruised kidney. "Yes. [Thomas] had it coming away from the game and he had tests done and everything seemed alright, and then after yesterday's practice he had some more blood in his urine, so we backed off today. We'll just watch and see where he's at tomorrow," head coach Sean Payton said.

Happy to help.

It's also interesting that you give Payton zero credit for finding him in the first place...

That explains why he was not used yesterday. It does not explain why he was not used after Duece went down through week 11.

 

[saintfool]

As for the Meachem pick, wait a year. The vast majority of rookie WRs never do anything their first year.

As long as Henderson, Moore, Patten and Copper are on the team, he won't see the field. You have to go as far back as Russell Erxleben to find a worse first round draft choice .

I posted this in another thread but i think it is relevant here...

Meachem making strides in recovery

Posted by Jimmy Smith, Times-Picayune November 09, 2007 7:55AM

Categories: Saints

Chris Granger / Times-PicayuneRobert Meachem has seen little action since the preseason.

It's difficult not to sympathize with Saints rookie Robert Meachem's plight.

Midway through the 2007 season, he is the forgotten man on the roster. He toils through weekly practices, dutifully carrying out his assignments, struggling to improve physically and mentally.

He willingly accepts the responsibility that goes with being a rookie, whether it's carrying a veteran's equipment or being the lunch go-fer.

Yet on game days, Meachem stands on the sideline wearing a gold T-shirt and black warmup pants. He has never dressed for a regular-season game, each week being among the inactive players on the 53-man roster.

Of the draft picks that went toward the bottom half of the first round last April, Nos. 20-32, Meachem, a wide receiver from Tennessee taken with the 27th pick, is one of two who has not seen game action, the other being Browns quarterback Brady Quinn. Seven of the 13 are, or have been, starters.

"For any competitor," Meachem said, "it's hard to watch. But if you're doing everything you can to help your team win, from Monday through Sunday, when we're winning, it's like you're winning, too, because you're a part of it.

"We're all one. So by us winning and me being a competitor, yes, I'd love to be out there. But the coaches know what's best, and they know what I can do. When they feel like I'm capable of doing what I once did, they'll put me out there."

Meachem's road from Knoxville to New Orleans has been filled with Crescent City-sized potholes.

He arrived for his first rookie minicamp admittedly out of shape, almost immediately sprained an ankle, struggled to get back on the field from that, then irritated the meniscus cartilage in his right knee during minicamp a month later, necessitating an arthroscopic clean-out on June 6.

Meachem reported for training camp six weeks later at Millsaps College in Jackson, Miss., and limped through the month while the Saints' veteran receiving corps, and even some camp-body free agents, made him look feeble.

"This was minor surgery," Meachem said, "but I wanted to hurry up and get to training camp. So I may have rushed myself a little too fast. That probably held me back a little more than I expected."

With Marques Colston, David Patten and company now performing at optimal efficiency, barring injury, it's going to be difficult for Meachem to break his NFL maiden any time soon, although decision-makers are beginning to take notice.

"I mean, for the majority of the offseason and even early on in the season, you could just tell he wasn't healthy," quarterback Drew Brees said. "He wasn't 100 percent, still limping and that sort of thing. But he's coming around. I think you see those bursts, that acceleration, that ability to go up and get the ball. He's made big improvements just on scout team and that sort of thing. Obviously, if there ever came a time when we would work him in, he would, I think, just exponentially get better and better."

Wide receivers coach Curtis Johnson said that early on, Meachem's struggles, including times when he'd catch more passes with his chest than with his hands, were probably connected to his gimpy and slow-healing right knee. And it's still slowing his growth, Johnson said.

"He's just not strong enough right now with his injury, but he's doing fine," Johnson said. "I think he's doing a lot better. You see he's working every day. He's starting to do some of the things that Lance (Moore) did for our scout team. But I think those other guys are starting to get into a groove, and they're starting to play well.

"So it's hard to put a guy in there now. He has a little bit to go as far as getting the little things in the offense. I think if we need him, I think we could play him. But right now, I don't see him being really, fully, 100 percent."

Coach Sean Payton, though, has taken notice of Meachem's improvement, especially, Payton said, in recent weeks.

"The first thing I see is someone who is running better, who's healthier, and it starts with that," Payton said. "You don't really see the gait in his step, and that has helped him. Secondly, his overall knowledge of what we're doing formationally and as an offense has helped him because he's getting more reps. He's doing a good job running the scout team. I'm pleased with the last three weeks."

For now, Meachem said, he relies on tolerance and faith to help him persevere, counting the days until he can pull on a game jersey instead of a T-shirt.

"I feel better and better each and every day," he said. "With me, it's all my coaches and what they see. They've coached in the NFL a long time, and they know what's best right now. I'm just waiting patiently, letting God handle it and letting the coaches handle it.

 

[Afro Samurai]

Do people even remember last season?

Yes. We also remember a guy named Jim Haslett who went 10-6 with a playoff win in his first season. The situations are eerily similar.There was talk of firing Haslett after his letdown second season, and they didn't. That turned out to be a huge mistake.

 

[Saints]

Great point.

That's why the "look at what Payton did last season" argument does not hold water.

And, judging from Payton's performance THIS year, it's looking more and more like the Saints should to look elsewhere for a quality coach.

A good start would be one who won't call a double-reverse at the 50 with the lead and under four minutes to play.

 

[stevegamer]

Crazy talk. They didn't address the D, and you want to fire the HC?

Drafting Bush - non-event. You should blame the Texans for not taking him if you don't want him, but everyone takes Bush #2 there.

Mare vs. Carney (not Karney, he's your FB) - getting a younger PK is normally a good idea. Mare has been solid in the past, and it looked like a good move at the time.

Pierre Thomas - he's a UDFA with significant medical problems right now, who beat out a draft pick you said was a mistake. If they had drafted Thomas in that spot, would they get credit for picking him, or blame for not playing him?

David was a horrible move and the LB's need fixing, but that's the GM's job, Payton is an offensive coach.

Firing the GM would make more sense; most of these issues are personnel acquisition.

I think Payton should be back next season, but I'll defer to you Saints fans when it comes to understanding building a consistent winning organization.

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

He spent a 7th round choice on Marques Colston down? Easy to make a coach look bad for pointing out his bad moves and ignoring his good moves.

You gotta be kidding. You make it sound like he had Colston on his board as a super sleeper pick, ran to the podium and announced 'Marques Colston, I win!!! This guy is 1st rd material'. Fact is, he got lucky. That is it.As far as this Meachem clown goes, when was the last time a 1st round WR never saw the field in his 1st year? Rashaun Woods even saw the field and that hack was always thinking about fishing.

He's INJURED. Jesus Christ.

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

Great point.That's why the "look at what Payton did last season" argument does not hold water. And, judging from Payton's performance THIS year, it's looking more and more like the Saints should to look elsewhere for a quality coach. A good start would be one who won't call a double-reverse at the 50 with the lead and under four minutes to play.

Yes, it was a ridiculous call. And just like we would forgive a 2nd-year starting QB who made a bad call in the middle of a high pressure game, we need to forgive Payton. His schemes likely won't be fully implemented until next year. So next year (STILL only the 3rd year after Haslett) is when we need to start really judging.

 

[tdoublebb]

Didn't Saints fans love this guy last year ?

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

Didn't Saints fans love this guy last year ?

Most still do.

 

[Saints]

Yes, but why take a wide receiver at all in that position when you already have fairly solid players at that position and desperately and obviously need help on defense?It was an idiotic move, and Sean Payton is the head coach.If Meachem came in and made a huge impact right away like Colston, that would be one thing. But this clown -- and yes, clown is the right word -- is a COMPLETE and TOTAL bust. And his problems have not just been because of his injury; he reported to training camp out of shape from the beginning.

He spent a 7th round choice on Marques Colston down? Easy to make a coach look bad for pointing out his bad moves and ignoring his good moves.

You gotta be kidding. You make it sound like he had Colston on his board as a super sleeper pick, ran to the podium and announced 'Marques Colston, I win!!! This guy is 1st rd material'. Fact is, he got lucky. That is it.As far as this Meachem clown goes, when was the last time a 1st round WR never saw the field in his 1st year? Rashaun Woods even saw the field and that hack was always thinking about fishing.

He's INJURED. Jesus Christ.

 

[Saints]

I think Payton should be back next season, but I'll defer to you Saints fans when it comes to understanding building a consistent winning organization.

A major problem the organization has had over the years is sticking with losing coaches longer than they should. Jim Hasslet and Jim Mora are probably the most well known examples.

 

[teamroc]

I'm not really that big a fan of the guy but I can't believe it's even being talked about. Do people even remember last season?J

Agreed.VERY few teams make the playoffs year in year out. He took over a mess, it's not there yet, and there will be ups and downs. People thinking the Saints were now the Colts/Pats were a little early. It takes years to build up the talent, systems, organization. He can coach, I'm pretty sure of that. GM skills are very questionable.

 

[crimsonrebel]

I did question him only drafting one defensive player in the first four rounds of the draft this year despite D secondary being their obvious need. They do need to cut david in the offseason and find someone better at CB. I was ready to fire him when he cost us the game last weekend with a trick play when all the needed to do was run the clock out, but im over it. He manned up and took full responsibility. Bottom line is hes better than almost any coach we'd have a shot at getting in the offseason, so he needs to stay.

 

[stevegamer]

I think Payton should be back next season, but I'll defer to you Saints fans when it comes to understanding building a consistent winning organization.

A major problem the organization has had over the years is sticking with losing coaches longer than they should. Jim Hasslet and Jim Mora are probably the most well known examples.

You're right - sticking with a losing coach like Jim Mora was really bad for them:

| Year TM | W L T | W L |

+----------+--------------+----------+

| 1986 nor | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |

| 1987 nor | 12 3 0 | 0 1 |

| 1988 nor | 10 6 0 | 0 0 |

| 1989 nor | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |

| 1990 nor | 8 8 0 | 0 1 |

| 1991 nor | 11 5 0 | 0 1 |

| 1992 nor | 12 4 0 | 0 1 |

| 1993 nor | 8 8 0 | 0 0 |

| 1994 nor | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |

| 1995 nor | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |

| 1996 nor | 2 6 0 | 0 0 |

Note, in case you're not familiar with the facts, this franchise had ZERO winning seasons before Mora became coach. Note Mora was fired after 2 consecutive mediocre, but losing seasons, and a very poor start to the third. Had a winning record as coach of the Saints, they stuck with him past two 7-9 years, hoping he could get them back to the playoffs. Probably fired timely, unless you wanted him gone after the second 7-9 season, which until he showed up was practically the best year in franchise history..

Then you've got Haslett:

| Year TM | W L T | W L |

+----------+--------------+----------+

| 2000 nor | 10 6 0 | 1 1 |

| 2001 nor | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |

| 2002 nor | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |

| 2003 nor | 8 8 0 | 0 0 |

| 2004 nor | 8 8 0 | 0 0 |

| 2005 nor | 3 13 0 | 0 0 |

Losing overall record, but he got them to the playoffs and the franchise's first playoff win. They fired him after the first truly bad year, at 3-13. I wouldn't consider him a good coach, but I don't see how they fire him coming off the 9-7 season, nor the 8-8 season after it, really. Maybe he could've been fired before he went 3-13, but then he'd be the second Saints coach with a winning record ever.

Now you've got Payton:

| Year TM | W L T | W L |

+----------+--------------+----------+

| 2006 nor | 10 6 0 | 1 1 |

| 2007 nor | 5 7 0 | 0 0 |

Winning overall record, first championship game appearance for franchise, but he needs to go, since he's a loser.

There are 3 coaches who've guided the Saints to winning seasons in history: Mora, Haslett, & now Payton. All of whom have accomplished franchise firsts regarding the playoffs. You want or wanted them all gone faster, because they weren't good enough for the Saints? I have bad news for you - these are the SUCCESSFUL Saints coaches.

Do you want them to fire every coach when they go under .500 during a season? It doesn't work that way.