Is Now the Time to Sell Calvin Johnson? (4 Viewers)

[Buckna]

I chuckle every time I see this thread bumped, the last time to sell him for a "haul" was a year before this thread started. The window for selling for top dollar gets shorter and shorter every year as dynasty players keep ratcheting up the youth factor. When this thread started you werent getting a "haul" for him in most leagues, people had already moved on to coveting AJ Green, Julio, Demarious, and Antonio. A year ago people had soured on Green already and were only interested in acquiring the Mike Evans or Watkins or OBJ's. And this year no wants Demaryius anymore and even in the Julio thread a few people have already started talking about him being overvalued. It's all Hopkins, OBJ, and Cooper now...

And so the wheel turns and turns....

 

[Shutout]

Lol let's not act like Calvin hasn't been getting double teamed and beating them his whole career. He is falling off and can no longer beat double teams. He has lost a couple steps. Still a WR2/3 for his TD upside. But it's time to abandon ship in the hopes that this guy is an elite WR.

I think you can go back and look at the stats before Caldwell showed up and now and you might find a very interesting directly inversely proportional relationship there.

I will say, after giving it some thought, that it is likely that he is not able to rebound physically from injuries that nag and slow him down as quickly as he once was, but I would bet with confidence that it is the coaching and system holding him down to this level. We will see because if he springs from Detroit, there are some nice landing spots for him where I am sure we will be noticing Megatron once again.

 

[tone1oc]

Lol let's not act like Calvin hasn't been getting double teamed and beating them his whole career. He is falling off and can no longer beat double teams. He has lost a couple steps. Still a WR2/3 for his TD upside. But it's time to abandon ship in the hopes that this guy is an elite WR.

I think you can go back and look at the stats before Caldwell showed up and now and you might find a very interesting directly inversely proportional relationship there.

I will say, after giving it some thought, that it is likely that he is not able to rebound physically from injuries that nag and slow him down as quickly as he once was, but I would bet with confidence that it is the coaching and system holding him down to this level. We will see because if he springs from Detroit, there are some nice landing spots for him where I am sure we will be noticing Megatron once again.

Is that correlation or causation.. I'm sure you could correlate WR production at age 29, 30, 31 as well.

As Rick Pitino would say, "2012 Megatron ain't running through that tunnel anymore"

 

[lod01]

Lol let's not act like Calvin hasn't been getting double teamed and beating them his whole career. He is falling off and can no longer beat double teams. He has lost a couple steps. Still a WR2/3 for his TD upside. But it's time to abandon ship in the hopes that this guy is an elite WR.

I think you can go back and look at the stats before Caldwell showed up and now and you might find a very interesting directly inversely proportional relationship there.

I will say, after giving it some thought, that it is likely that he is not able to rebound physically from injuries that nag and slow him down as quickly as he once was, but I would bet with confidence that it is the coaching and system holding him down to this level. We will see because if he springs from Detroit, there are some nice landing spots for him where I am sure we will be noticing Megatron once again.

Teams know that if they remove Calvin from the game with a double team, Caldwell will not take a chance. He will try and eak out a herminator style win. Good teams will then beat the Lions because as Caldwell said earlier this year. "we let the defense tell us what we can do'. He's so awesome.

The blueprint to beat the Lions with Caldwell, is take out Megatron. The whole league knows it.

 

[georg013]

I chuckle every time I see this thread bumped, the last time to sell him for a "haul" was a year before this thread started. The window for selling for top dollar gets shorter and shorter every year as dynasty players keep ratcheting up the youth factor. When this thread started you werent getting a "haul" for him in most leagues, people had already moved on to coveting AJ Green, Julio, Demarious, and Antonio. A year ago people had soured on Green already and were only interested in acquiring the Mike Evans or Watkins or OBJ's. And this year no wants Demaryius anymore and even in the Julio thread a few people have already started talking about him being overvalued. It's all Hopkins, OBJ, and Cooper now...

And so the wheel turns and turns....

As an owner of DT he is approaching that territory for me as well. Im a Broncos fan too. But again, you have to know when to abandon ship. Perceived value is the key to landing big deals. Regardless of how I feel about a player, I am only going to get what the fantasy community is willing to pay. I can either sell or hold. I moved Calvin and have been happy with the trade. But what about DT? If I can get a huge haul, Im all for it. He is hitting age 28 so I wouldnt mind keeping him a couple more years. But by age 29, Im looking to cash out. Eddie Lacy is another player I will be looking to move after next season.

 

[Shutout]

Lol let's not act like Calvin hasn't been getting double teamed and beating them his whole career. He is falling off and can no longer beat double teams. He has lost a couple steps. Still a WR2/3 for his TD upside. But it's time to abandon ship in the hopes that this guy is an elite WR.

I think you can go back and look at the stats before Caldwell showed up and now and you might find a very interesting directly inversely proportional relationship there.

I will say, after giving it some thought, that it is likely that he is not able to rebound physically from injuries that nag and slow him down as quickly as he once was, but I would bet with confidence that it is the coaching and system holding him down to this level. We will see because if he springs from Detroit, there are some nice landing spots for him where I am sure we will be noticing Megatron once again.

Is that correlation or causation.. I'm sure you could correlate WR production at age 29, 30, 31 as well.

As Rick Pitino would say, "2012 Megatron ain't running through that tunnel anymore"

Certainly could be either but what is generally true with GREAT players is that they produce longer than the number we tend to assign in our heads as the drop off points for positions. Some QBs are washed up by the time they are 34. Some guys like Manning, Brady, Brees,...not so much. I wouldn't bet on Aaron Rodgers fading any time soon, either.

Maybe a perfect comp study is Larry Fitzgerald. He was LEFT 4 DEAD this time last year and MANY, MANY people said "well, he's 30 now...that's what happens."

No, what happened is Carson Palmer is healthy this year and the coaching staff is smart. COMPLETELY different player. We can play 20/20 all day long but there is NO way the people who were connecting the dots last year regarding Fitz can defend that statement today and Fitz is now a year older than he was then. It's a team game with a lot of moving parts. RBs don't run behind bad lines. Corners aren't shut down corners on teams with bad front 7's. It all moves in concert. Antonio Brown wasn't Antonio Brown without Ben and I sure ain't saying Antonio Brown was suddenly bad.

 

[lod01]

Lol let's not act like Calvin hasn't been getting double teamed and beating them his whole career. He is falling off and can no longer beat double teams. He has lost a couple steps. Still a WR2/3 for his TD upside. But it's time to abandon ship in the hopes that this guy is an elite WR.

I think you can go back and look at the stats before Caldwell showed up and now and you might find a very interesting directly inversely proportional relationship there.

I will say, after giving it some thought, that it is likely that he is not able to rebound physically from injuries that nag and slow him down as quickly as he once was, but I would bet with confidence that it is the coaching and system holding him down to this level. We will see because if he springs from Detroit, there are some nice landing spots for him where I am sure we will be noticing Megatron once again.

Is that correlation or causation.. I'm sure you could correlate WR production at age 29, 30, 31 as well.

As Rick Pitino would say, "2012 Megatron ain't running through that tunnel anymore"

I did. List of recent guys who kept producing at 31 and higher.

Andre Johnson

Marvin Harrison

Brandon Marshall

Cris Carter - huge years after 30

Terrell Owens

Larry Fitz

Randy Moss

Reggie Wayne

Tim Brown

Jerry Rice

Hines Ward

 

[Shutout]

I chuckle every time I see this thread bumped, the last time to sell him for a "haul" was a year before this thread started. The window for selling for top dollar gets shorter and shorter every year as dynasty players keep ratcheting up the youth factor. When this thread started you werent getting a "haul" for him in most leagues, people had already moved on to coveting AJ Green, Julio, Demarious, and Antonio. A year ago people had soured on Green already and were only interested in acquiring the Mike Evans or Watkins or OBJ's. And this year no wants Demaryius anymore and even in the Julio thread a few people have already started talking about him being overvalued. It's all Hopkins, OBJ, and Cooper now...

And so the wheel turns and turns....

As an owner of DT he is approaching that territory for me as well. Im a Broncos fan too. But again, you have to know when to abandon ship. Perceived value is the key to landing big deals. Regardless of how I feel about a player, I am only going to get what the fantasy community is willing to pay. I can either sell or hold. I moved Calvin and have been happy with the trade. But what about DT? If I can get a huge haul, Im all for it. He is hitting age 28 so I wouldnt mind keeping him a couple more years. But by age 29, Im looking to cash out. Eddie Lacy is another player I will be looking to move after next season.

You know, I agree with your business tactic but I think you are hard selling this, likely because you sold Calvin and it worked for you this time and appears to support the statement. But that is not always the case and usually is NOT with great players. By that same formula, people would have sold Manning and Brady and missed out on arguably their best years. People would have lost out big on Matt Forte, Wes Welker, Larry Fitz, Charles Woodson (IDP), and a lot of others in some of their most valuable seasons. I think I rode Reggie Wayne and Andre Johnson to two straight titles years after they were reportedly declining or washed up.

Again, agree with the thought but think it is extremely situational and isn't a cookie cutter approach when you are talking about all-time great types and Calvin Johnson Is an all-timer.

I'd ask people to consider the notion of trading him and then tell me how you are going to feel about that if he should land in San Diego with Rivers next year or somewhere like that.

 

[tone1oc]

Lol let's not act like Calvin hasn't been getting double teamed and beating them his whole career. He is falling off and can no longer beat double teams. He has lost a couple steps. Still a WR2/3 for his TD upside. But it's time to abandon ship in the hopes that this guy is an elite WR.

I think you can go back and look at the stats before Caldwell showed up and now and you might find a very interesting directly inversely proportional relationship there.

I will say, after giving it some thought, that it is likely that he is not able to rebound physically from injuries that nag and slow him down as quickly as he once was, but I would bet with confidence that it is the coaching and system holding him down to this level. We will see because if he springs from Detroit, there are some nice landing spots for him where I am sure we will be noticing Megatron once again.

Is that correlation or causation.. I'm sure you could correlate WR production at age 29, 30, 31 as well.

As Rick Pitino would say, "2012 Megatron ain't running through that tunnel anymore"

Certainly could be either but what is generally true with GREAT players is that they produce longer than the number we tend to assign in our heads as the drop off points for positions. Some QBs are washed up by the time they are 34. Some guys like Manning, Brady, Brees,...not so much. I wouldn't bet on Aaron Rodgers fading any time soon, either.

Maybe a perfect comp study is Larry Fitzgerald. He was LEFT 4 DEAD this time last year and MANY, MANY people said "well, he's 30 now...that's what happens."

No, what happened is Carson Palmer is healthy this year and the coaching staff is smart. COMPLETELY different player. We can play 20/20 all day long but there is NO way the people who were connecting the dots last year regarding Fitz can defend that statement today and Fitz is now a year older than he was then. It's a team game with a lot of moving parts. RBs don't run behind bad lines. Corners aren't shut down corners on teams with bad front 7's. It all moves in concert. Antonio Brown wasn't Antonio Brown without Ben and I sure ain't saying Antonio Brown was suddenly bad.

Fitzgerald was anchored by historically bad QB play.. But to your point, I think a 2015 Fitz season in 2016 for Calvin is a best case scenario which would put him as a solid WR2. I won't begrudge that comp.

 

[georg013]

I chuckle every time I see this thread bumped, the last time to sell him for a "haul" was a year before this thread started. The window for selling for top dollar gets shorter and shorter every year as dynasty players keep ratcheting up the youth factor. When this thread started you werent getting a "haul" for him in most leagues, people had already moved on to coveting AJ Green, Julio, Demarious, and Antonio. A year ago people had soured on Green already and were only interested in acquiring the Mike Evans or Watkins or OBJ's. And this year no wants Demaryius anymore and even in the Julio thread a few people have already started talking about him being overvalued. It's all Hopkins, OBJ, and Cooper now...

And so the wheel turns and turns....

As an owner of DT he is approaching that territory for me as well. Im a Broncos fan too. But again, you have to know when to abandon ship. Perceived value is the key to landing big deals. Regardless of how I feel about a player, I am only going to get what the fantasy community is willing to pay. I can either sell or hold. I moved Calvin and have been happy with the trade. But what about DT? If I can get a huge haul, Im all for it. He is hitting age 28 so I wouldnt mind keeping him a couple more years. But by age 29, Im looking to cash out. Eddie Lacy is another player I will be looking to move after next season.

You know, I agree with your business tactic but I think you are hard selling this, likely because you sold Calvin and it worked for you this time and appears to support the statement. But that is not always the case and usually is NOT with great players. By that same formula, people would have sold Manning and Brady and missed out on arguably their best years. People would have lost out big on Matt Forte, Wes Welker, Larry Fitz, Charles Woodson (IDP), and a lot of others in some of their most valuable seasons. I think I rode Reggie Wayne and Andre Johnson to two straight titles years after they were reportedly declining or washed up.Again, agree with the thought but think it is extremely situational and isn't a cookie cutter approach when you are talking about all-time great types and Calvin Johnson Is an all-timer.

I'd ask people to consider the notion of trading him and then tell me how you are going to feel about that if he should land in San Diego with Rivers next year or somewhere like that.

Up until last season, I did not buy into this mode of thinking. I would have held Calvin until his retirement. But there came a point where I figured the value of what I was getting in return exceeded the expected ouput of Calvin. I do believe aging vets have a place on your roster. I actually moved Calvin for Fitz and two firsts. I also have Carson Palmer starting. But if you have a chance to move those blue chip pieces on the downside (which for elite players is still very good) for something younger and substantial you have to do it. Especially in dynasty which is what I play. Obviously there are special circumstances. But how many Forte owners out there would love to have moved him last season for a guy like Cooper or Gurley? (Draft picks). Yeah, you still have a quality back but you missed out on getting younger and now Langford is eating away at his carries. You never know when the end will come. I held LT far longer than I should have and passed up some great deals along the way. Granted thats my own personal experience and may not apply to all. Its not a perfect science and there will always be some misses. But I think these aging wonders are the bloodline to continued relevance. If you cash out at the right time and use your chips wisely that is.

 

[chad in Indy]

I only got to watch a handful of Detroit games, but from the ones I saw, the play calling is way to predictable. I understand he gets double/triple teamed, but the difference is the coaches don't care. They simply have decided they are okay with it and will pass instead to Tate, Riddick, or whoever. On top of that, Stafford rarely throws deep any longer. Calvin was/still is winning jump balls when given the chances. He just hardly gets them anymore. I don't buy that he became Andre Johnson irrelevant this fast. Brandon Marshall is older and has 1200 yds and 11 TD's this year. Even Decker (about to be 29) is approaching 1,000 yds and already has 10 TD's.

Given the right landing spot, I think he can easily achieve 1100-1300 yds and double digit TD's for another year or 2. I'd like to see him land somewhere with a burner to line up across from him. Call me crazy, but Washington would be nice. Desean Jackson to occupy the safties, Jordan Reed to keep linebackers honest, and a couple young RB's (Jones/Thompson) who can catch out of the backfield. I think Gruden would be creative enough too. I don't think he needs to be paired with an "elite" QB to put up the numbers. Just a good one. That division is favorable for fantasy numbers too.

 

[T.Rex]

Lol let's not act like Calvin hasn't been getting double teamed and beating them his whole career. He is falling off and can no longer beat double teams. He has lost a couple steps. Still a WR2/3 for his TD upside. But it's time to abandon ship in the hopes that this guy is an elite WR.

I think you can go back and look at the stats before Caldwell showed up and now and you might find a very interesting directly inversely proportional relationship there.I will say, after giving it some thought, that it is likely that he is not able to rebound physically from injuries that nag and slow him down as quickly as he once was, but I would bet with confidence that it is the coaching and system holding him down to this level. We will see because if he springs from Detroit, there are some nice landing spots for him where I am sure we will be noticing Megatron once again.

lIs that correlation or causation.. I'm sure you could correlate WR production at age 29, 30, 31 as well.

As Rick Pitino would say, "2012 Megatron ain't running through that tunnel anymore"

Certainly could be either but what is generally true with GREAT players is that they produce longer than the number we tend to assign in our heads as the drop off points for positions. Some QBs are washed up by the time they are 34. Some guys like Manning, Brady, Brees,...not so much. I wouldn't bet on Aaron Rodgers fading any time soon, either. Maybe a perfect comp study is Larry Fitzgerald. He was LEFT 4 DEAD this time last year and MANY, MANY people said "well, he's 30 now...that's what happens."

No, what happened is Carson Palmer is healthy this year and the coaching staff is smart. COMPLETELY different player. We can play 20/20 all day long but there is NO way the people who were connecting the dots last year regarding Fitz can defend that statement today and Fitz is now a year older than he was then. It's a team game with a lot of moving parts. RBs don't run behind bad lines. Corners aren't shut down corners on teams with bad front 7's. It all moves in concert. Antonio Brown wasn't Antonio Brown without Ben and I sure ain't saying Antonio Brown was suddenly bad.

Fitzgerald was anchored by historically bad QB play.. But to your point, I think a 2015 Fitz season in 2016 for Calvin is a best case scenario which would put him as a solid WR2. I won't begrudge that comp.

So a top 10 player in ppr such as Fitzgerald this year is only a WR2???

Lol at these statements.

 

[lod01]

I chuckle every time I see this thread bumped, the last time to sell him for a "haul" was a year before this thread started. The window for selling for top dollar gets shorter and shorter every year as dynasty players keep ratcheting up the youth factor. When this thread started you werent getting a "haul" for him in most leagues, people had already moved on to coveting AJ Green, Julio, Demarious, and Antonio. A year ago people had soured on Green already and were only interested in acquiring the Mike Evans or Watkins or OBJ's. And this year no wants Demaryius anymore and even in the Julio thread a few people have already started talking about him being overvalued. It's all Hopkins, OBJ, and Cooper now...

And so the wheel turns and turns....

As an owner of DT he is approaching that territory for me as well. Im a Broncos fan too. But again, you have to know when to abandon ship. Perceived value is the key to landing big deals. Regardless of how I feel about a player, I am only going to get what the fantasy community is willing to pay. I can either sell or hold. I moved Calvin and have been happy with the trade. But what about DT? If I can get a huge haul, Im all for it. He is hitting age 28 so I wouldnt mind keeping him a couple more years. But by age 29, Im looking to cash out. Eddie Lacy is another player I will be looking to move after next season.

You know, I agree with your business tactic but I think you are hard selling this, likely because you sold Calvin and it worked for you this time and appears to support the statement. But that is not always the case and usually is NOT with great players. By that same formula, people would have sold Manning and Brady and missed out on arguably their best years. People would have lost out big on Matt Forte, Wes Welker, Larry Fitz, Charles Woodson (IDP), and a lot of others in some of their most valuable seasons. I think I rode Reggie Wayne and Andre Johnson to two straight titles years after they were reportedly declining or washed up.

Again, agree with the thought but think it is extremely situational and isn't a cookie cutter approach when you are talking about all-time great types and Calvin Johnson Is an all-timer.

I'd ask people to consider the notion of trading him and then tell me how you are going to feel about that if he should land in San Diego with Rivers next year or somewhere like that.

I use the same strategy they do but I try & wait until they only have 2 years left max. Sold Marvin Harrison at 33, Andre Johnson for #2 pick ( LeVeon Bell) 2 years ago. Made my share of mistakes as well. Sold Brady for 2 #1's after his 3rd season or so....huge mistake as it shows now but I had Favre at the time. Resisted selling Marshall and he is having his best season ever.

It works both ways. But I say it is not time to sell CJ. Sure you could have received a lot but I try and win championships instead of perpetually trading guys for younger guys. It's risky to sell a solid stud for a guess in the draft.

 

[lod01]

I only got to watch a handful of Detroit games, but from the ones I saw, the play calling is way to predictable. I understand he gets double/triple teamed, but the difference is the coaches don't care. They simply have decided they are okay with it and will pass instead to Tate, Riddick, or whoever. On top of that, Stafford rarely throws deep any longer. Calvin was/still is winning jump balls when given the chances. He just hardly gets them anymore. I don't buy that he became Andre Johnson irrelevant this fast. Brandon Marshall is older and has 1200 yds and 11 TD's this year. Even Decker (about to be 29) is approaching 1,000 yds and already has 10 TD's.

Given the right landing spot, I think he can easily achieve 1100-1300 yds and double digit TD's for another year or 2. I'd like to see him land somewhere with a burner to line up across from him. Call me crazy, but Washington would be nice. Desean Jackson to occupy the safties, Jordan Reed to keep linebackers honest, and a couple young RB's (Jones/Thompson) who can catch out of the backfield. I think Gruden would be creative enough too. I don't think he needs to be paired with an "elite" QB to put up the numbers. Just a good one. That division is favorable for fantasy numbers too.

Would love Calvin in WASH.

 

[tone1oc]

Lol let's not act like Calvin hasn't been getting double teamed and beating them his whole career. He is falling off and can no longer beat double teams. He has lost a couple steps. Still a WR2/3 for his TD upside. But it's time to abandon ship in the hopes that this guy is an elite WR.

I think you can go back and look at the stats before Caldwell showed up and now and you might find a very interesting directly inversely proportional relationship there.I will say, after giving it some thought, that it is likely that he is not able to rebound physically from injuries that nag and slow him down as quickly as he once was, but I would bet with confidence that it is the coaching and system holding him down to this level. We will see because if he springs from Detroit, there are some nice landing spots for him where I am sure we will be noticing Megatron once again.

lIs that correlation or causation.. I'm sure you could correlate WR production at age 29, 30, 31 as well.

As Rick Pitino would say, "2012 Megatron ain't running through that tunnel anymore"

Certainly could be either but what is generally true with GREAT players is that they produce longer than the number we tend to assign in our heads as the drop off points for positions. Some QBs are washed up by the time they are 34. Some guys like Manning, Brady, Brees,...not so much. I wouldn't bet on Aaron Rodgers fading any time soon, either. Maybe a perfect comp study is Larry Fitzgerald. He was LEFT 4 DEAD this time last year and MANY, MANY people said "well, he's 30 now...that's what happens."

No, what happened is Carson Palmer is healthy this year and the coaching staff is smart. COMPLETELY different player. We can play 20/20 all day long but there is NO way the people who were connecting the dots last year regarding Fitz can defend that statement today and Fitz is now a year older than he was then. It's a team game with a lot of moving parts. RBs don't run behind bad lines. Corners aren't shut down corners on teams with bad front 7's. It all moves in concert. Antonio Brown wasn't Antonio Brown without Ben and I sure ain't saying Antonio Brown was suddenly bad.

Fitzgerald was anchored by historically bad QB play.. But to your point, I think a 2015 Fitz season in 2016 for Calvin is a best case scenario which would put him as a solid WR2. I won't begrudge that comp.

So a top 10 player in ppr such as Fitzgerald this year is only a WR2???

Lol at these statements.

He's WR7 in PPR & WR10 in standard. So I did underestimate his season.. Nobody is comfortable rolling Fitz out as their WR1 and his production has tailed off recently.

Fitzgerald also has way better hands and is a better route runner and is playing for a MVP caliber QB, which also contributes to his renaissance. Are you expecting Calvin to move to the slot and catch 70% of passes from somoene not named Stafford?

 

[georg013]

Is Calvin Johnson helping teams to championships? He has been banged up and underutilized without even factoring in a decline. While he disappoints, there are younger players performing now with far more years remaining on their debit cards. I could understand if he was beasting it but he hasnt for some time except in small spurts. How long does he get a pass before we act? We are living in a world of hypotheticals with this guy.

What if he moves to another offense

What if he was healthy

What if they have a different coach

What if they throw him more jumpballs

What if you use his name recognition to go get a player who IS doing those things instead of waiting on the unknown. But again, to each his own. I wish only the best to those still holding on. I was once in your position.

 

[tone1oc]

Is Calvin Johnson helping teams to championships? He has been banged up and underutilized without even factoring in a decline. While he disappoints, there are younger players performing now with far more years remaining on their debit cards. I could understand if he was beasting it but he hasnt for some time except in small spurts. How long does he get a pass before we act? We are living in a world of hypotheticals with this guy.

What if he moves to another offense

What if he was healthy

What if they have a different coach

What if they throw him more jumpballs

What if you use his name recognition to go get a player who IS doing those things instead of waiting on the unknown.

What if they actually hire Adam Gase and he runs a balanced offense which leads to a dip in targets for an aging and inefficient WR?

 

[lod01]

Is Calvin Johnson helping teams to championships? He has been banged up and underutilized without even factoring in a decline. While he disappoints, there are younger players performing now with far more years remaining on their debit cards. I could understand if he was beasting it but he hasnt for some time except in small spurts. How long does he get a pass before we act? We are living in a world of hypotheticals with this guy.

What if he moves to another offense

What if he was healthy

What if they have a different coach

What if they throw him more jumpballs

What if you use his name recognition to go get a player who IS doing those things instead of waiting on the unknown.

What if they actually hire Adam Gase and he runs a balanced offense which leads to a dip in targets for an aging and inefficient WR?

Hard to dip from 1 target. There is no one worse than Caldwell. Remember that teams told Tate that they know what play was being run with Lombardi. They didn't just scrap the plays with Cooter. Pretty easy to take out the long ball when you know it is coming.

 

[tone1oc]

Is Calvin Johnson helping teams to championships? He has been banged up and underutilized without even factoring in a decline. While he disappoints, there are younger players performing now with far more years remaining on their debit cards. I could understand if he was beasting it but he hasnt for some time except in small spurts. How long does he get a pass before we act? We are living in a world of hypotheticals with this guy.

What if he moves to another offense

What if he was healthy

What if they have a different coach

What if they throw him more jumpballs

What if you use his name recognition to go get a player who IS doing those things instead of waiting on the unknown.

What if they actually hire Adam Gase and he runs a balanced offense which leads to a dip in targets for an aging and inefficient WR?

Hard to dip from 1 target.

Calvin is currently #11 among pass catchers in targets, while #19 among pass catchers in production.

 

[georg013]

When you have to make so many excuses for why a player isnt performing it might be time to take a deeper look at the player. An objective, tough, realistic look.

 

[georg013]

Is Calvin Johnson helping teams to championships? He has been banged up and underutilized without even factoring in a decline. While he disappoints, there are younger players performing now with far more years remaining on their debit cards. I could understand if he was beasting it but he hasnt for some time except in small spurts. How long does he get a pass before we act? We are living in a world of hypotheticals with this guy.

What if he moves to another offense

What if he was healthy

What if they have a different coach

What if they throw him more jumpballs

What if you use his name recognition to go get a player who IS doing those things instead of waiting on the unknown.

What if they actually hire Adam Gase and he runs a balanced offense which leads to a dip in targets for an aging and inefficient WR?

Hard to dip from 1 target.

Calvin is currently #11 among pass catchers in targets, while #19 among pass catchers in production.

What would a young guy like Sammy Watkins do with those targets. Even he has found a way around the system, quarterback, lack of targets, and injuries.

 

[lod01]

When you have to make so many excuses for why a player isnt performing it might be time to take a deeper look at the player. An objective, tough, realistic look.

There is only one excuse and it's Caldwell and it's obvious. Targets are down with Caldwell as HC.

 

[tone1oc]

Is Calvin Johnson helping teams to championships? He has been banged up and underutilized without even factoring in a decline. While he disappoints, there are younger players performing now with far more years remaining on their debit cards. I could understand if he was beasting it but he hasnt for some time except in small spurts. How long does he get a pass before we act? We are living in a world of hypotheticals with this guy.

What if he moves to another offense

What if he was healthy

What if they have a different coach

What if they throw him more jumpballs

What if you use his name recognition to go get a player who IS doing those things instead of waiting on the unknown.

What if they actually hire Adam Gase and he runs a balanced offense which leads to a dip in targets for an aging and inefficient WR?

Hard to dip from 1 target. There is no one worse than Caldwell. Remember that teams told Tate that they know what play was being run with Lombardi. They didn't just scrap the plays with Cooter. Pretty easy to take out the long ball when you know it is coming.

And do you notice that the Detroit offense has been at its best when they are able to run the ball and get Tate/Ebron involved?

The Lions DO NOT want to go back to the 2012 air it out to Megatron and hope for the best approach, it hasn't and will not work.

 

[tangfoot]

I only got to watch a handful of Detroit games, but from the ones I saw, the play calling is way to predictable. I understand he gets double/triple teamed, but the difference is the coaches don't care. They simply have decided they are okay with it and will pass instead to Tate, Riddick, or whoever. On top of that, Stafford rarely throws deep any longer. Calvin was/still is winning jump balls when given the chances. He just hardly gets them anymore. I don't buy that he became Andre Johnson irrelevant this fast. Brandon Marshall is older and has 1200 yds and 11 TD's this year. Even Decker (about to be 29) is approaching 1,000 yds and already has 10 TD's.

Given the right landing spot, I think he can easily achieve 1100-1300 yds and double digit TD's for another year or 2. I'd like to see him land somewhere with a burner to line up across from him. Call me crazy, but Washington would be nice. Desean Jackson to occupy the safties, Jordan Reed to keep linebackers honest, and a couple young RB's (Jones/Thompson) who can catch out of the backfield. I think Gruden would be creative enough too. I don't think he needs to be paired with an "elite" QB to put up the numbers. Just a good one. That division is favorable for fantasy numbers too.

Would love Calvin in WASH.

They have decent talent at WR and don't want any part of that massive salary.

 

[lod01]

Is Calvin Johnson helping teams to championships? He has been banged up and underutilized without even factoring in a decline. While he disappoints, there are younger players performing now with far more years remaining on their debit cards. I could understand if he was beasting it but he hasnt for some time except in small spurts. How long does he get a pass before we act? We are living in a world of hypotheticals with this guy.

What if he moves to another offense

What if he was healthy

What if they have a different coach

What if they throw him more jumpballs

What if you use his name recognition to go get a player who IS doing those things instead of waiting on the unknown.

What if they actually hire Adam Gase and he runs a balanced offense which leads to a dip in targets for an aging and inefficient WR?

Hard to dip from 1 target. There is no one worse than Caldwell. Remember that teams told Tate that they know what play was being run with Lombardi. They didn't just scrap the plays with Cooter. Pretty easy to take out the long ball when you know it is coming.

And do you notice that the Detroit offense has been at its best when they are able to run the ball and get Tate/Ebron involved?

The Lions DO NOT want to go back to the 2012 air it out to Megatron and hope for the best approach, it hasn't and will not work.

Have you noticed who they beat with that approach? The 30th ranked D and 24th ranked awful Philly D. They squeaked out some wins and lost more by ignoring Calvin until it was too late. You have to watch them to understand all this. You can't just look at a stat sheet. Some games he ignored and they get desperate because the better D they are facing stops what worked last night. Then Calvin piles up stats as they frantically try and come back.

 

[tone1oc]

More target narrative stats.. Below are Calvin's targets per game and the Lions regular season record.

2015 - 8.9 (5-9)

2014 - 9.8 (11-5)

2013 - 11.1 (7-9)

2012 - 12.8 (4-12)

2011 - 9.8 (10-6)

2010 - 9.1 (6-10)

2009 - 9.7 (2-14)

2008 - 9.4 (0-16)

2007 - 9.3 (7-9)

Basically he's been at around 9 tar/game for his whole career, which is where he's been under Caldwell. The two outlier years where Megatron beasted the Lions went a combined 11-21, so not exactly a winning formula even if he had his 2012 body.

 

[lod01]

I only got to watch a handful of Detroit games, but from the ones I saw, the play calling is way to predictable. I understand he gets double/triple teamed, but the difference is the coaches don't care. They simply have decided they are okay with it and will pass instead to Tate, Riddick, or whoever. On top of that, Stafford rarely throws deep any longer. Calvin was/still is winning jump balls when given the chances. He just hardly gets them anymore. I don't buy that he became Andre Johnson irrelevant this fast. Brandon Marshall is older and has 1200 yds and 11 TD's this year. Even Decker (about to be 29) is approaching 1,000 yds and already has 10 TD's.

Given the right landing spot, I think he can easily achieve 1100-1300 yds and double digit TD's for another year or 2. I'd like to see him land somewhere with a burner to line up across from him. Call me crazy, but Washington would be nice. Desean Jackson to occupy the safties, Jordan Reed to keep linebackers honest, and a couple young RB's (Jones/Thompson) who can catch out of the backfield. I think Gruden would be creative enough too. I don't think he needs to be paired with an "elite" QB to put up the numbers. Just a good one. That division is favorable for fantasy numbers too.

Would love Calvin in WASH.

They have decent talent at WR and don't want any part of that massive salary.

It would be whatever they want to pay. He's untradeable. He would have to be cut.

 

[lod01]

More target narrative stats.. Below are Calvin's targets per game and the Lions regular season record.

2015 - 8.9 (5-9)

2014 - 9.8 (11-5)

2013 - 11.1 (7-9)

2012 - 12.8 (4-12)

2011 - 9.8 (10-6)

2010 - 9.1 (6-10)

2009 - 9.7 (2-14)

2008 - 9.4 (0-16)

2007 - 9.3 (7-9)

Basically he's been at around 9 tar/game for his whole career, which is where he's been under Caldwell. The two outlier years where Megatron beasted the Lions went a combined 11-21, so not exactly a winning formula even if he had his 2012 body.

Please realize that they have been an awful team all thru Calvin's career. He's the reason they were winning the games they won. 11-5 2014 was a total fluke. They were winning herminator style (keep it close win in the 4th Q). That only works for a while.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

I only got to watch a handful of Detroit games, but from the ones I saw, the play calling is way to predictable. I understand he gets double/triple teamed, but the difference is the coaches don't care. They simply have decided they are okay with it and will pass instead to Tate, Riddick, or whoever. On top of that, Stafford rarely throws deep any longer. Calvin was/still is winning jump balls when given the chances. He just hardly gets them anymore. I don't buy that he became Andre Johnson irrelevant this fast. Brandon Marshall is older and has 1200 yds and 11 TD's this year. Even Decker (about to be 29) is approaching 1,000 yds and already has 10 TD's.

Given the right landing spot, I think he can easily achieve 1100-1300 yds and double digit TD's for another year or 2. I'd like to see him land somewhere with a burner to line up across from him. Call me crazy, but Washington would be nice. Desean Jackson to occupy the safties, Jordan Reed to keep linebackers honest, and a couple young RB's (Jones/Thompson) who can catch out of the backfield. I think Gruden would be creative enough too. I don't think he needs to be paired with an "elite" QB to put up the numbers. Just a good one. That division is favorable for fantasy numbers too.

Would love Calvin in WASH.

They have decent talent at WR and don't want any part of that massive salary.

Garcon is almost certainly getting cut. So is Andre Roberts (who sucks, is overpaid, and just went on IR to boot).

Most Skins fans assume Desean is back.

So that leaves Desean and Crowder (decent rookie slot WR) at WR and nothing else. Along with Reed at TE.

You never know, if he's cut.

 

[tone1oc]

More target narrative stats.. Below are Calvin's targets per game and the Lions regular season record.

2015 - 8.9 (5-9)

2014 - 9.8 (11-5)

2013 - 11.1 (7-9)

2012 - 12.8 (4-12)

2011 - 9.8 (10-6)

2010 - 9.1 (6-10)

2009 - 9.7 (2-14)

2008 - 9.4 (0-16)

2007 - 9.3 (7-9)

Basically he's been at around 9 tar/game for his whole career, which is where he's been under Caldwell. The two outlier years where Megatron beasted the Lions went a combined 11-21, so not exactly a winning formula even if he had his 2012 body.

Please realize that they have been an awful team all thru Calvin's career. He's the reason they were winning the games they won.

Of course, but Caldwell from a W-L perspective has been his best coach and Megatron targets even at his best was not a formula for success.

 

[lod01]

More target narrative stats.. Below are Calvin's targets per game and the Lions regular season record.

2015 - 8.9 (5-9)

2014 - 9.8 (11-5)

2013 - 11.1 (7-9)

2012 - 12.8 (4-12)

2011 - 9.8 (10-6)

2010 - 9.1 (6-10)

2009 - 9.7 (2-14)

2008 - 9.4 (0-16)

2007 - 9.3 (7-9)

Basically he's been at around 9 tar/game for his whole career, which is where he's been under Caldwell. The two outlier years where Megatron beasted the Lions went a combined 11-21, so not exactly a winning formula even if he had his 2012 body.

Please realize that they have been an awful team all thru Calvin's career. He's the reason they were winning the games they won.

Of course, but Caldwell from a W-L perspective has been his best coach and Megatron targets even at his best was not a formula for success.

Once again, you need to look at how they won games last year. You can't count on GW FGs weekly.

MInn, CHI, ATL, MIA, NO were all come from behind late in the 4th Q. 1/2 their wins they lucked out.. Luck is over, back to losing Caldwell is garbage and got lucky for a few games. All he did was set the team back another year.

 

[tone1oc]

More target narrative stats.. Below are Calvin's targets per game and the Lions regular season record.

2015 - 8.9 (5-9)

2014 - 9.8 (11-5)

2013 - 11.1 (7-9)

2012 - 12.8 (4-12)

2011 - 9.8 (10-6)

2010 - 9.1 (6-10)

2009 - 9.7 (2-14)

2008 - 9.4 (0-16)

2007 - 9.3 (7-9)

Basically he's been at around 9 tar/game for his whole career, which is where he's been under Caldwell. The two outlier years where Megatron beasted the Lions went a combined 11-21, so not exactly a winning formula even if he had his 2012 body.

Please realize that they have been an awful team all thru Calvin's career. He's the reason they were winning the games they won.

Of course, but Caldwell from a W-L perspective has been his best coach and Megatron targets even at his best was not a formula for success.

Once again, you need to look at how they won games last year. You can't count on GW FGs weekly.

MInn, CHI, ATL, MIA, NO were all come from behind late in the 4th Q. 1/2 their wins they lucked out.. Luck is over, back to losing Caldwell is garbage and got lucky for a few games. All he did was set the team back another year.

Take a look at how they won.. they won last year with Calvin having his lowest raw production year since his second season.

 

[lod01]

Take a look at how they won.. they won last year with Calvin having his lowest raw production year since his second season.

implying that they won because of his low numbers. They lucked into wins. This year that all dried up.

They are now losing with the same strategy. Don't even try and say Philly and NO are some sort of good teams. Victories vs teams with winning records: ONE!

 

[tone1oc]

Take a look at how they won.. they won last year with Calvin having his lowest raw production year since his second season.

implying that they won because of his low numbers. They lucked into wins. This year that all dried up.

They are now losing with the same strategy. Don't even try and say Philly and NO are some sort of good teams.

What are you even arguing here? This is a Calvin Johnson thread. You are trying to present a false narrative that Caldwell hasn't been targeting Calvin, which isn't true. You are stating that the team has won because of Megatron when the numbers don't back it up.

The Lions have been at their best when they run a balanced offense, which Calvin is still a part of. Calvin was at his best, when the Lions were bad and force feeding him targets.

 

[lod01]

Take a look at how they won.. they won last year with Calvin having his lowest raw production year since his second season.

implying that they won because of his low numbers. They lucked into wins. This year that all dried up.

They are now losing with the same strategy. Don't even try and say Philly and NO are some sort of good teams.

What are you even arguing here? This is a Calvin Johnson thread. You are trying to present a false narrative that Caldwell hasn't been targeting Calvin, which isn't true. You are stating that the team has won because of Megatron when the numbers don't back it up.

The Lions have been at their best when they run a balanced offense, which Calvin is still a part of. Calvin was at his best, when the Lions were bad and force feeding him targets.

You just lost the argument that you started. Now you want to say I started the W/L vs Calvin's production.

You stated that they win when they don't target him and I showed that you were wrong.

Only thing I was wrong about was the targets. But the catches are down and yardage are down with Caldwell.

 

[tone1oc]

Take a look at how they won.. they won last year with Calvin having his lowest raw production year since his second season.

implying that they won because of his low numbers. They lucked into wins. This year that all dried up.

They are now losing with the same strategy. Don't even try and say Philly and NO are some sort of good teams.

What are you even arguing here? This is a Calvin Johnson thread. You are trying to present a false narrative that Caldwell hasn't been targeting Calvin, which isn't true. You are stating that the team has won because of Megatron when the numbers don't back it up.

The Lions have been at their best when they run a balanced offense, which Calvin is still a part of. Calvin was at his best, when the Lions were bad and force feeding him targets.

You just lost the argument that you started. Now you want to say I started the W/L vs Calvin's production.

You stated that they win when they don't target him and I showed that you were wrong.

I didn't lose anything, I'm pretty sure you are the one talking out of your ### and inserting laughing face everywhere.

The Lions have been bad for most of his career, you have falsely stated that Caldwell has led to a dip in targets which isn't true. I pointed out the W-L to show that force feeding Calvin Johnson will not be a recipe for success in 2016, even if it was 2012 Calvin. I also am saying that under Caldwell, the Lions have played well when they have a balanced offense.

 

[Quasimoto]

You can't sell Big Cal now fer cryin' out loud. Dude just made the Pro Bowl. Everyone knows that means he's still real real good.

 

[Deuceman]

Thankfully my offer of Landry and 1st round rookie pick for megatron in dynasty before tonight's game was rejected. If it was accepted and I start Calvin I lose. Not going to try again.

Wow, how was that turned down. Easy accept.

 

[tone1oc]

Brandon Browner, PFF's No. 116 CB among 116 qualifiers, was on Calvin for 20-of-27 routes Monday ( via @MikeClayNFL). Calvin went 1-19-0.

Yikes...

https://twitter.com/adamlevitan/status/679783796149977088

 

[georg013]

Silence....

 

[Eminence]

This is the week!

 

[Faust]

Calvin Johnson not sure if this will be his final Lions home game

 

[lod01]

Calvin Johnson not sure if this will be his final Lions home game

Beautiful.

“I don’t know,” Johnson said. “I don’t know.”

Music to my ears. I hope the tone was a guy fed up with Caldwell's candyass coaching. Hopefully Barry Sanders got in touch with him and gave him advice on the upcoming attept to renegotiate his contract.

 

[skol asylum]

Are you starting Calvin this week?

 

[Kwai Chang Caine]

Are you starting Calvin this week?

Nope.

 

[Shadows]

Dunno

2 weeks of stink gunna take a big set of ### to start him this week

 

[Cold Dead Hands]

He sits for me this week. So feel free to start him. He should get 3tds.

 

[JohnnyU]

Has that ship sailed?

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Are you starting Calvin this week?

Benched for Golden Tate, Hilton, and Baldwin.

 

[cubbie5150]

Are you starting Calvin this week?

Wasn't going to, but after seeing all the negativity, I am seriously considering going contrarian. He does get a 49ers D that has been pretty mehh overall.