Is Reggie Bush an everydown, 25 carry/game RB? (1 Viewer)

[GDogg]

This might (emphasis on might) help the Saints offense/playcalling if they use Bush as more of a traditional RB. Bush's numbers look like crap thus far partly because of Bush, but also because of the way they used him and Deuce. The Saints were telegraphing what they were going to do.

If they line Bush up in the backfield (without Deuce), then they were either going to toss it to him off tackle or toward the sideline, or have him hang out in the flat as the check down option. Opposing D's knew exactly where he was going before he got there. With Deuce in the game, you knew that on running plays, they were going up the middle.

I can't recall any running plays this season where the Saints caught the D off guard. It was either Deuce up the middle or Reggie to the outside. Now, if they use Reggie for both roles, then you might be able to at least throws some occasional changeups at the D. Run him up the middle a few times for 2-4 yards. Use the same formations and then get him to the outside.

The personnel and formations the Saints used this season (so far) have resulted in terribly predictable play-calling.

 

[duaneok66]

This might (emphasis on might) help the Saints offense/playcalling if they use Bush as more of a traditional RB. Bush's numbers look like crap thus far partly because of Bush, but also because of the way they used him and Deuce. The Saints were telegraphing what they were going to do. If they line Bush up in the backfield (without Deuce), then they were either going to toss it to him off tackle or toward the sideline, or have him hang out in the flat as the check down option. Opposing D's knew exactly where he was going before he got there. With Deuce in the game, you knew that on running plays, they were going up the middle. I can't recall any running plays this season where the Saints caught the D off guard. It was either Deuce up the middle or Reggie to the outside. Now, if they use Reggie for both roles, then you might be able to at least throws some occasional changeups at the D. Run him up the middle a few times for 2-4 yards. Use the same formations and then get him to the outside. The personnel and formations the Saints used this season (so far) have resulted in terribly predictable play-calling.

excellent post . . .

 

[notapplicable]

This might (emphasis on might) help the Saints offense/playcalling if they use Bush as more of a traditional RB. Bush's numbers look like crap thus far partly because of Bush, but also because of the way they used him and Deuce. The Saints were telegraphing what they were going to do. If they line Bush up in the backfield (without Deuce), then they were either going to toss it to him off tackle or toward the sideline, or have him hang out in the flat as the check down option. Opposing D's knew exactly where he was going before he got there. With Deuce in the game, you knew that on running plays, they were going up the middle. I can't recall any running plays this season where the Saints caught the D off guard. It was either Deuce up the middle or Reggie to the outside. Now, if they use Reggie for both roles, then you might be able to at least throws some occasional changeups at the D. Run him up the middle a few times for 2-4 yards. Use the same formations and then get him to the outside. The personnel and formations the Saints used this season (so far) have resulted in terribly predictable play-calling.

excellent post . . .

No doubt about it. Another thing is that last year they used Reggie as a decoy a whole heck of a lot. Instead of Bush getting that reverse last night, they would have handed it to Duece up the middle. Play calling has been horrible.

 

[MarcO]

The answer to this question is: "Yes Reggie can carry it 20 times between the tackles." It isn't a big deal. He carried 18 times in the first half against UCLA and had over 200 yards and 3 TDs, 14 of those carries were between the tackles and he was just warming up. Running that many times is about stamina and endurance, not durability. Durability is an isse of injury and Reggie has no history of that save a minor ankle here or there. Mewelde Moore was a workhorse at Tulane and could be one in Minnesota if asked to do so. More carries for any back means more chances to get hurt... any back. Norwood was a workhorse in the SEC and could be one in Atlanta if asked to be. Addai was never a workhorse at LSU, but it is no big deal for him to be one now. The whole notion of a workhorse back is way overthought. Most backs can be every down backs if their coaches ask them to. It is that simple. There are a few who seem limited, but just a few. There are a few who seem injury prone, but that's impossible to predict, and Bush has no history or injury.That's the answer to "can he"?The answer to your first question even downgraded to 20 is: "Maybe, but probably not." That offense has a very sophisticated tooling that uses Reggie wide in order to spread the defense and open up the middle for a ground attack. Reggie is not fully cross trained at Deuce's position and they are two completely different positions. I doubt Payton changes his entire offensive scheme over this injury. Reggie will be a little more involved but Stecker will take Deuce's role and the game plans will be similar. Payton needs to shake things up, but I have a feeling that doesn't involve lining up Reggie in Deuce's spot and pounding him up the middle... though Reggie could do that. He'd look bad sometimes dancing around, and he'd find a seam here and there and tear it up.

Let me know when UCLA joins the NFC South.

Exactly. This isn't college and he isn't playing on an offense that is vastly superior to its opponents, as he was at USC. I think the Saints would be foolish to try and turn him into a 20 carry/game back - his skills (and his propensity to head east/west) aren't suited for trying to pound between the tackles. He should get a few more carries, but I don't think the Saints offense will improve with him slamming into the teeth of the defense repeatedly.

No you guys are "exactly" wrong and not comprehending. By your standards college must be tougher than the NFL because Addai couldn't carry the load at LSU. College being too tough for Addai and too easy for Bush has nothing to do with it. Either back can carry the load if given the chance. Way too much is made of this topic. It is a coach's decision and nothing more. Amost every back in the league could carry the load if given the opportunity. How successful they would be is another question.I never said Bush would be as productive with 20+ carries in the NFL as he was in college, so your replies don't really make sense or address the topic. Productivity is totally different than whether or not he could handle the carries. Anyway Construx asked two questions: Will he get that many carries, and can he handle that many. You two seem to be answering the question, "should he get that many?" I don't have an answer to that one. I guess the Saints should give him a try and find out if he "should". But I know he "can", and because of the nature of the installed offense, I doubt he "will". Capice? I doubt it.

but I don't think the question is just if he can - I think it inherently implies can he be successful carrying the ball 20 - 25 times a game. I think that he could if his O-Line can create some holes. McAllister wasn't exactly knocking out big chunks of yardage when he was in either which leads me to believe it was more of a function of the O-line play rather than Reggie "dancing" east to west. He didn't seem to have a problem hitting the hole when he scored the TD last night and he didn't waste anytime getting around the corner on the other TD run.

 

[CalBear]

Here's an analogy for you. Right now Cal has senior Justin Forsett starting at tailback, and true freshman Jahvid Best getting some carries in relief. Best was the state 100-meter champion and is electric to watch, while Forsett is fast but definitely more pedestrian.

The repertoire of plays for Best has been very limited, and focused on getting him the ball in space; the counter pitch, the WR stack screen, the end-around. Early in the season, Best was demolishing defenses; he rushed for 4/46, 2/73, and 3/27 in his first three games (16.2 ypc). But against Arizona last week, we were calling the same plays, and Arizona was expecting them and stopping Best. Our success was with other backs, running up the gut.

That's kind of where New Orleans is with Bush right now; they're a little too much into the gimmick play, so when Bush pretends to block the lineman and slips out for a screen, it's obvious that's what happening and he gets demolished by a linebacker.

The loss of Deuce isn't a good thing for New Orleans, but it will force them to include Bush in a wider range of plays, and I think that will be good for Bush. In a sense, he'll be running to set up the run.

I'm pretty confident that Jahvid Best will be a better running back than Justin Forsett by the time he's a senior. I'm also pretty confident that Bush will learn to be an effective back in whatever role he's given.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Here's an analogy for you. Right now Cal has senior Justin Forsett starting at tailback, and true freshman Jahvid Best getting some carries in relief. Best was the state 100-meter champion and is electric to watch, while Forsett is fast but definitely more pedestrian. The repertoire of plays for Best has been very limited, and focused on getting him the ball in space; the counter pitch, the WR stack screen, the end-around. Early in the season, Best was demolishing defenses; he rushed for 4/46, 2/73, and 3/27 in his first three games (16.2 ypc). But against Arizona last week, we were calling the same plays, and Arizona was expecting them and stopping Best. Our success was with other backs, running up the gut.That's kind of where New Orleans is with Bush right now; they're a little too much into the gimmick play, so when Bush pretends to block the lineman and slips out for a screen, it's obvious that's what happening and he gets demolished by a linebacker. The loss of Deuce isn't a good thing for New Orleans, but it will force them to include Bush in a wider range of plays, and I think that will be good for Bush. In a sense, he'll be running to set up the run. I'm pretty confident that Jahvid Best will be a better running back than Justin Forsett by the time he's a senior. I'm also pretty confident that Bush will learn to be an effective back in whatever role he's given.

This is exactly what I was trying to say in the Deuce thread. It's never good to see a great guy like Deuce go down, but if it gets the Saints out of this gimmicky offense that the entire league has figured out then it might be better in the long run.I've been saying since last year even when he was succeeding that Bush would be better off in an offense where he can play as a standard RB instead of all these trick plays that aren't fooling anyone anymore. There's no reason to believe Bush can't be an every down back at the moment. The guy has absolutely no injury history and at this point the worst case scenario is "we'll have to wait and see".