Is RG3 Mike Vick? (1 Viewer)

[Touchdown There]

To me, I saw two guys who are about the same size with big arms and exceptional mobility.

Both may be "slight" but Vick is short while Griffin is tall (at least compared to Vick) and lanky.

Coming out of college Vick was 6'0" 180, RG3 is 6'2" 220. That is not the same size. Vick may be quicker and make better cuts but I would bet their straight line speed is about the same. What sets RG3 apart in my book is he is a much better passer. He completed 70% in college, Vick was under 50%. Vick has a great arm but he could not hit open receivers. RG3s accuracy is increased by the amount of bubble screens and short throws he made at Baylor but he also had numerous bombs of over 40 yards that were right on the money.RG3 is a passer that can run, Vick is a runner that can pass some of the time.

Straight Line speed, Vick ran a 4.25 in the 40 at Virginia Tech: http://www.hokiesports.com/huddler/archive/0382000aaa.html Also Vick was listed as 6'1" 210 (even though he's more 6'0" than 6'1") not 180 as his draft profile on many sites in 2001.

Hand timed by a college coach. Does not fly.

Regardless, RG3 is not faster than Vick in straight line speed coming out of college, no way.

Vick is the one who opted out of the combine, so this is a non-discussion. No matter what time RG3 runs, in your mind it will not be better than Vick would have run. Think about it...you are proclaiming "no way" when RG3 has not run his combine 40. If you have a closed-mind there is no reason to debate on a message board.I am sure that RG3 is faster than Vick, but that does not make him a better running QB than Vick. Vick is shifty, agile and sudden.

I don't get the arguing over 40 time. Based on official times RG3 has run he's almost certainly faster in a straight line. However, it's Vick's agility that made him unique - in the beginning he was a RB playing QB who had a strong arm. RG3 will be a terror to defenses because of his speed, but not in the same was Vick is.

I don't think it's an argument. RG3 is faster than Cam too, but this does not mean he is sure to score more fantasy points than Cam or Vick. I would rather have Cam in a second.Here is the thing: hurdling records are not impressing anyone. People need a number that makes sense in their brain and that is a 40-yard dash time. The combine is just around the bend. Instead of hurdler times, we will be able to discuss a number that may "WoW" people.

 

[duaneok66]

RG3 is a couple inches taller. This makes a difference because Vick, even in recent history, has had trouble with balls batted down at the line.Vick is a better runner. RG3 is a great runner; Vick is just at another level.Vick has a better arm. RG3 has a great arm; Vick is just at another level.RG3 is a better QB than Vick was coming into the league by a large margin. (Of course, Vick is a much better QB than a young Vick too.)Both hold onto the ball too long and take too many hits.

This is pretty spot on. The other thing I'd add is RG3 has more upstairs than Vick.

I'm probably the only one that thinks this but I think Vick was more NFL-ready than RG3.

why is that??

 

[cstu]

RG3 is a couple inches taller. This makes a difference because Vick, even in recent history, has had trouble with balls batted down at the line.Vick is a better runner. RG3 is a great runner; Vick is just at another level.Vick has a better arm. RG3 has a great arm; Vick is just at another level.RG3 is a better QB than Vick was coming into the league by a large margin. (Of course, Vick is a much better QB than a young Vick too.)Both hold onto the ball too long and take too many hits.

This is pretty spot on. The other thing I'd add is RG3 has more upstairs than Vick.

I'm probably the only one that thinks this but I think Vick was more NFL-ready than RG3.

why is that??

Because with his ridiculous running ability he didn't have to be good passer. If he found someone open, great, if not he could take off for a huge gain - basically a super-Tebow. RG3 is more of a traditional QB so even though he has great speed he'll need to learn to play QB in the NFL.

 

[cvnpoka]

lol cam haters are so delusional

I prefer the term RG3 lover. I don't hate Cam, I love RG3. Lord knows I wish he was on this team...

no you are blatantly hating and intentionally ignoring strong evidence when you say crap like hes not a good leader and wont ever be great. ive said it before, cam hate simply reeks of racism.

 

[daveR]

lol cam haters are so delusional

I prefer the term RG3 lover. I don't hate Cam, I love RG3. Lord knows I wish he was on this team...

no you are blatantly hating and intentionally ignoring strong evidence when you say crap like hes not a good leader and wont ever be great. ive said it before, cam hate simply reeks of racism.

I'm not sure you can love one & dislike the other, and then attribute that to race (which I asked be left out of this thread). ETA: I suspect that, like a lot of us, he has stated his opinion and wants to be proven correct. A lot of our opinions are based on guesswork & hearsay. Rarely do we ever meet these guys.I've seen MAC's comments before. This is simply his style. I doubt it's race oriented, though I get what you're saying.

 

[duaneok66]

lol cam haters are so delusional

I prefer the term RG3 lover. I don't hate Cam, I love RG3. Lord knows I wish he was on this team...

no you are blatantly hating and intentionally ignoring strong evidence when you say crap like hes not a good leader and wont ever be great. ive said it before, cam hate simply reeks of racism.

seriously? his post had NOTHING to do with race - I guess in the 21st century you can't criticize a player without backlash . . .

 

[duaneok66]

RG3 is a couple inches taller. This makes a difference because Vick, even in recent history, has had trouble with balls batted down at the line.Vick is a better runner. RG3 is a great runner; Vick is just at another level.Vick has a better arm. RG3 has a great arm; Vick is just at another level.RG3 is a better QB than Vick was coming into the league by a large margin. (Of course, Vick is a much better QB than a young Vick too.)Both hold onto the ball too long and take too many hits.

This is pretty spot on. The other thing I'd add is RG3 has more upstairs than Vick.

I'm probably the only one that thinks this but I think Vick was more NFL-ready than RG3.

why is that??

Because with his ridiculous running ability he didn't have to be good passer. If he found someone open, great, if not he could take off for a huge gain - basically a super-Tebow. RG3 is more of a traditional QB so even though he has great speed he'll need to learn to play QB in the NFL.

Vick had to do that as well, and so will Tebow if he wants to remain the starter in Denver.

 

[Tackling Dummies]

Here is the thing: hurdling records are not impressing anyone. People need a number that makes sense in their brain and that is a 40-yard dash time. The combine is just around the bend. Instead of hurdler times, we will be able to discuss a number that may "WoW" people.

The combine is overrated, period. Game film is all you need and if you are moving players up and down because of a 40 time or if they can lift a lot of weights, good luck. BTW, 3 cone drill>40 times.

 

[Touchdown There]

Here is the thing: hurdling records are not impressing anyone. People need a number that makes sense in their brain and that is a 40-yard dash time. The combine is just around the bend. Instead of hurdler times, we will be able to discuss a number that may "WoW" people.

The combine is overrated, period. Game film is all you need and if you are moving players up and down because of a 40 time or if they can lift a lot of weights, good luck. BTW, 3 cone drill>40 times.

I like your dedication to the game of football. If you watch NFL games, your Sunday is reserved and Monday and Thursday nights are in front of the tube. If you watch college, then your Friday night and Saturdays are gone. This does not even include individual scouting that you are eluding to. People do not have that much time to improve a fantasy squad because it would pull from work and family obligations.For the most part there are NFL guys and NCAA guys. If you are an NFL guy, you can wait until after the combine and April draft to do any real scouting of NCAA players you want on your fantasy squad. Serious ff players will use combine numbers, highlight reels, and on field accomplishments to make their decisions. I care more about how many points a player will score in fantasy and that requires all the variables in the formula. Talent + Opportunity + Motivation = Fantasy Points

I disagree with your bolded above. The only thing that college film will show you is talent while consuming all your time. It is better to take a step back and have a holistic view.

 

[Tackling Dummies]

Here is the thing: hurdling records are not impressing anyone. People need a number that makes sense in their brain and that is a 40-yard dash time. The combine is just around the bend. Instead of hurdler times, we will be able to discuss a number that may "WoW" people.

The combine is overrated, period. Game film is all you need and if you are moving players up and down because of a 40 time or if they can lift a lot of weights, good luck. BTW, 3 cone drill>40 times.

I like your dedication to the game of football. If you watch NFL games, your Sunday is reserved and Monday and Thursday nights are in front of the tube. If you watch college, then your Friday night and Saturdays are gone. This does not even include individual scouting that you are eluding to. People do not have that much time to improve a fantasy squad because it would pull from work and family obligations.For the most part there are NFL guys and NCAA guys. If you are an NFL guy, you can wait until after the combine and April draft to do any real scouting of NCAA players you want on your fantasy squad. Serious ff players will use combine numbers, highlight reels, and on field accomplishments to make their decisions. I care more about how many points a player will score in fantasy and that requires all the variables in the formula. Talent + Opportunity + Motivation = Fantasy Points

I disagree with your bolded above. The only thing that college film will show you is talent while consuming all your time. It is better to take a step back and have a holistic view.

Speaking from a team's POV, I think that the takeaway from the combine is that teams get the opportunity to have in-depth interviews with the incoming players.

 

[MAC_32]

lol cam haters are so delusional

I prefer the term RG3 lover. I don't hate Cam, I love RG3. Lord knows I wish he was on this team...

no you are blatantly hating and intentionally ignoring strong evidence when you say crap like hes not a good leader and wont ever be great. ive said it before, cam hate simply reeks of racism.

I never said he won't be great, he has the raw ability to be great. I said he hasn't done anything to date to lead me to believe he will ever be a good leader, which is essential at the QB position. RG3 has shown me both the ability and that he has the head for it. People change, but the trend I'm seeing from Cam is that of a poor leader. Leaders lead by example and Cam to date has not shown that and frankly has done the exact opposite. Raw ability wins in college but it won't in the pros, he needs to get his head on straight if he really wants to win.

 

[Da Guru]

Griff has great raw ability...how will that translate to the next level? As with any QB taken in the top 10 of the draft is is a crapshoot, but I like his chances.

 

[cvnpoka]

lol cam haters are so delusional

I prefer the term RG3 lover. I don't hate Cam, I love RG3. Lord knows I wish he was on this team...

no you are blatantly hating and intentionally ignoring strong evidence when you say crap like hes not a good leader and wont ever be great. ive said it before, cam hate simply reeks of racism.

seriously? his post had NOTHING to do with race - I guess in the 21st century you can't criticize a player without backlash . . .

you cant criticize cam newton's mentality and leadership skills without it being racist when you consider what his teams have accomplished, how his mates and coaches speak of him, how they respond to him and how he conducts himself in interviews.

 

[pantherclub]

lol cam haters are so delusional

I prefer the term RG3 lover. I don't hate Cam, I love RG3. Lord knows I wish he was on this team...

no you are blatantly hating and intentionally ignoring strong evidence when you say crap like hes not a good leader and wont ever be great. ive said it before, cam hate simply reeks of racism.

I never said he won't be great, he has the raw ability to be great. I said he hasn't done anything to date to lead me to believe he will ever be a good leader, which is essential at the QB position. RG3 has shown me both the ability and that he has the head for it. People change, but the trend I'm seeing from Cam is that of a poor leader. Leaders lead by example and Cam to date has not shown that and frankly has done the exact opposite. Raw ability wins in college but it won't in the pros, he needs to get his head on straight if he really wants to win.

You are so far off here its not even funny.

 

[jurb26]

I never said he won't be great, he has the raw ability to be great. I said he hasn't done anything to date to lead me to believe he will ever be a good leader, which is essential at the QB position. RG3 has shown me both the ability and that he has the head for it. People change, but the trend I'm seeing from Cam is that of a poor leader. Leaders lead by example and Cam to date has not shown that and frankly has done the exact opposite. Raw ability wins in college but it won't in the pros, he needs to get his head on straight if he really wants to win.

I'm by no means a Cam cool-aid drinking enthusiast but this seem off to me. What are you basing this opinion on? I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm not saying it's right. I just don't know how you could have come to such a strong conclusion on this already. He just came off his rookie season. He has won championships at every level. The guys on his team seem to respond to him, perhaps because he is so athletically polarizing. I think his championship run last year at Auburn was pretty impressive and showed leadership qualities. How many distractions did he and that team face that year? How many games did he basically lead his team to victory in? Certainly the Alabama game was one. Sure, he created distractions with some poor decisions earlier in his life but he overcame them in the moments that mattered thus far. I'd say the book is still very much open on weather or not Cam will turn into a great leader, a poor leader or even just an average leader with otherworldly natural ability.

 

[duaneok66]

lol cam haters are so delusional

I prefer the term RG3 lover. I don't hate Cam, I love RG3. Lord knows I wish he was on this team...

no you are blatantly hating and intentionally ignoring strong evidence when you say crap like hes not a good leader and wont ever be great. ive said it before, cam hate simply reeks of racism.

seriously? his post had NOTHING to do with race - I guess in the 21st century you can't criticize a player without backlash . . .

you cant criticize cam newton's mentality and leadership skills without it being racist when you consider what his teams have accomplished, how his mates and coaches speak of him, how they respond to him and how he conducts himself in interviews.

calling someone a leader is somewhat subjective - he said he isn't a leader and i agree - it has NOTHING to do with race - you are talking about about a guy that seems to be about himself, that is not the definition of leader (IMO) - again, we agree to disagree - I really don't know why you can't leave it at that.

 

[MAC_32]

calling someone a leader is somewhat subjective - he said he isn't a leader and i agree - it has NOTHING to do with race - you are talking about about a guy that seems to be about himself, that is not the definition of leader (IMO) - again, we agree to disagree - I really don't know why you can't leave it at that.

Rather than create my own post I'll just support this one. Dead on.

 

[cvnpoka]

so you can provide no argument other than its just your gut feeling despite plenty of evidence to the contrary. im sure there is no ugly bias involved there.

 

[MAC_32]

so you can provide no argument other than its just your gut feeling despite plenty of evidence to the contrary. im sure there is no ugly bias involved there.

I'm not sure why theft, extortion, and saying 'my teammates need to step up to my level' is anything but signs of a poor leader. If that were my boss I'd be looking for another job, not looking to run through brick walls for the guy.

 

[cvnpoka]

sounds like you are a quitter that likes to be coddled.

looks to me like his mates were playing poorly and not putting in proper effort while he was leaving it on the field. so he told them. fwiw, the team went 4-4 after those comments.

as for the theft, who cares, ppl make mistakes when theyre young. as for the extortion, well, correct me if im wrong, but there were absolutely no links to cam himself and thats why he was allowed to lead his team to an ncaa title.

 

[cvnpoka]

ok, i just found the comments you were referring to.

"What happens when you take a lion out of the safari and try to take him to your place of residence and make him a house pet? It ain't going to happen. That's the type of person that I am. I'm that lion. The house that I'm in is somewhat of a tarnished house where losing is accepted. But I'm trying to change that, whether I'm going to have to turn that house into a safari, or I'm just going to have to get out of that house. I'm not saying I'm trying to leave this place. I'm just trying to get everybody on my level."

that sounds like a winner talking. a man that is driven to succeed. a man that wont accept teammates who accept losing and fail to rise to the challenge. a leader.

 

[cstu]

ok, i just found the comments you were referring to.

"What happens when you take a lion out of the safari and try to take him to your place of residence and make him a house pet? It ain't going to happen. That's the type of person that I am. I'm that lion. The house that I'm in is somewhat of a tarnished house where losing is accepted. But I'm trying to change that, whether I'm going to have to turn that house into a safari, or I'm just going to have to get out of that house. I'm not saying I'm trying to leave this place. I'm just trying to get everybody on my level."

that sounds like a winner talking. a man that is driven to succeed. a man that wont accept teammates who accept losing and fail to rise to the challenge. a leader.

He better hope Cleveland doesn't take him.

 

[cvnpoka]

cam newton said that

 

[Tackling Dummies]

link: NFP Podcast on RG3