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Is Rivers getting exposed as a mediocre QB? (1 Viewer)

Was he overrated?

  • Yes

    Votes: 60 40.3%

  • No

    Votes: 83 55.7%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 6 4.0%
  • Total voters
    149
On pace for 4000 yards, 25 TD / 16 INT...seems pretty accurate for where he was drafted (QB5-10 area, depending on draft).

Not to mention, he doesn't exactly have the best receiving options to work with at the moment. Let's see what happens when Brown gets back, yes?

 
I suppose he has but a lot of QBs would look rather mediocre (Rodgers vs. SEA) when getting hurried/sacked so often. Rivers has showed us what he can do with a bit of time in the pocket.

 
He has a pretty good schedule down the stretch plus his #1 WR coming back in a few weeks. Things could heat up in San Diego.

 
The guy is Top 5 all time in YPA and passer rating and Top 10 all time in passing yds/gm and completion percentage. He's won 65% of his starts over his 6+ years as a starter. I'm missing the mediocre part.

 
He's had a solid career and was once a very good QB, but IMO he's regressed and is now just an above average QB and no longer a top 10 QB. I wouldn't say he used to be overrated, but he may be overrated now.

 
he's had one bad game this year versus ATL. Besides that he's been pretty good considering his WRs and an aging gates. SD probably would have came back and won this past week @ NO if the fix wasn't in on that game. that would have made them 4-1. hes definitely not top 5, more like somewhere 6-8 imo. that's not mediocre or overrated.

 
Ask an open ended agenda-laced question like "Is Rivers exposed as a mediocre QB?" and don't even provide any context to understand the question being asked. Reality or fantasy? This year or careerwise? With Gates and VJax in their primes or without. The entire OP is "thoughts?" Really??? Please try harder. thx. or.just.dont.

 
Tackles that have allowed a combined 25 QB rushes, pretty mediocre WRs, starting RB went down preseason and left him with Ronnie Brown to start, it's a miracle he's been this good.

 
Voted no on both, terrible OLine, mediocre run game (even when healthy), mediocre receivers.

Gates' decline, the loss of VJax and Tolbert, Norv Turner, various Oline issues - this is what we are seeing.

 
He's an above average QB in the NFL but has never been close to elite. I look at him in the same way I do Romo. Good enough to sniff the playoffs but can't finish the deal. His best chances were with a dominant LT and those days are far behind.

 
Rivers has actually been very underrated hie entire career. Before last season, he was unquestionabley elite, but was seldom mentioned in the same breath with Brady, Brees or Peyton Manning. Even last year, when he was supposedly horrible, he put up 4600 yards passing and 27 TDs. He's had 3 4000 yard seasons, 2 30 TD seasons, 3 seasons with a plus 100 QB rating and sports a lifetime rating of 95.4. Those are HOF numbers.

Rivers has been saddled with a head coach who has been nothing but horrifically bad for years, but inexplicably keeps being hired. Norv actually holds down Rivers stats- the "great" playcaller is the most predictable one on earth when the Chargers get inside the opponent's red zone. He always runs on first down there, almost always runs again on second down, and if it's inside the 5, will frequently run 3 times in a row. And he never tries a QB sneak with the 6'5 Rivers, who should excel at that. So Rivers has never gotten the cheap short TD passes that QBs like Brees and Rodgers, especially, have loaded up on.

Rivers has never had an elite WR. I don't buy into Vincent Jackson- he's always been woefully inconsistent. A couple of years ago, Rivers was putting up incredible stats with WRs like Legadu Nanenee and other clowns off the street with unprounceable names. Gates has really been his only reliable weapon, and he has been hurt often the past few seasons. He's also never had a single above average offensive lineman.

Rivers never gets injured and has started every game since being given the job in 2006. His mettle was shown when he played that championship game with a severe leg injury (the same one where Ladanian wimped out with a much more minor injury). He's a great leader, and has produced at the highest levels while not being given a good supporting cast, and under the tutelate of a clueless, ridiculous coach.

 
LHucks has got persistence, you gotta give him that

The O-line has been incredibly inconsistent, Mathews has been out, and Norv's been unimaginative in his playcalls. Rivers has had a couple poor decisions this year, but I think he's actually improved in his game, with his newfound ability to look for the dumpoff as the last option, rather than just chuck it out of bounds.

Give him a solid O-line and he'll be back to his 2008-2010 self.

 
Well I think it is safe to say that this thread is going to get bumped often this season. Either with the :coffee: by LHucks or with a lot of :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: from the rest of the board. Likely both will get a few weeks.

But the reality is that Rivers has been a pretty good NFL and fantasy QB for a lot of years now. He has done it with LT and without. With two different head coaches, with Gates and with him injured, and with a group of WRs that are pretty much no names outside of VJax. While he certainly has not been great, mediocre is a big stretch.

 
'GordonGekko said:
'bigunreal said:
Rivers has been saddled with a head coach who has been nothing but horrifically bad for years, but inexplicably keeps being hired. Norv actually holds down Rivers stats- the "great" playcaller is the most predictable one on earth when the Chargers get inside the opponent's red zone. He always runs on first down there, almost always runs again on second down, and if it's inside the 5, will frequently run 3 times in a row. And he never tries a QB sneak with the 6'5 Rivers, who should excel at that. So Rivers has never gotten the cheap short TD passes that QBs like Brees and Rodgers, especially, have loaded up on.
Click to expand...
I think River's toughness and the generally universal disdain for Norv Turner as a head coach and the growing resentment towards AJ Smith's handling of personnel have clouded people on what is a multiple front issue. I don't think Turner gives the best playcalling all the time. I do think he's trying to adjust and compensate for a poor O line ( this is a personnel issue) and for trying to "pace out" Rivers over the course of the season. The problem still remains, you fire Turner, you fire Smith, you get a good personnel guy, and the INTs will not stop. IMHO, Rivers is losing touch, accuracy and velocity. I think Turner does a poor job of hiding some of River's new problems, but I think some problems with the playcalling are because of it. I think Turner and Smith have done plenty ( or done little) enough to generate the ill will they get sometimes, but Rivers is not blameless. This is like fans saying Favre coughed up so many INTs because he felt like he had no help and had no choice but to take over the game by himself. One of River's best attributes - his never say die toughness and his complete belief he can make any throw is a good thing. Until it comes to a point where he refuses to accept his limitations. I'll say it again, his mechanics are screwed up. And the rest of his skill set can no longer compensate for them and it's progressively wearing him down during late game and late season situations. He's getting a lot of coverage over these issues because his coach is a walking lightening rod and he's playing in a pro passing era. His numbers are great, if you watch them and compare them historically. But line them up to his current peers and you can see he is also a product of this specific era. Rivers IMHO is starting to become a case where the "name" and juice from past achievements are going to carry more weight than what he can give you right now. I think people are taking their disdain for LHUCKs and the word "mediocre" to avoid the issue that what Rivers will give you going forward is still a salient question and that Rivers is not completely blameless for the Chargers current struggles. Take out the word "mediocre" and the question still comes to you. What is this guy going to give you the rest of the season? Next season?
Click to expand...
One of the best posts this forum has seen recently.Well done GG.Next level thinking, that's what this thread brings.
 
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Don't know about mediocre but do know I haven't liked what ive seen this year and traded him for big ben in my dynasty. Balls look like ducks anything past 20 yards.

 
'GordonGekko said:
'bigunreal said:
Rivers has been saddled with a head coach who has been nothing but horrifically bad for years, but inexplicably keeps being hired. Norv actually holds down Rivers stats- the "great" playcaller is the most predictable one on earth when the Chargers get inside the opponent's red zone. He always runs on first down there, almost always runs again on second down, and if it's inside the 5, will frequently run 3 times in a row. And he never tries a QB sneak with the 6'5 Rivers, who should excel at that. So Rivers has never gotten the cheap short TD passes that QBs like Brees and Rodgers, especially, have loaded up on.
Click to expand...
I think River's toughness and the generally universal disdain for Norv Turner as a head coach and the growing resentment towards AJ Smith's handling of personnel have clouded people on what is a multiple front issue. I don't think Turner gives the best playcalling all the time. I do think he's trying to adjust and compensate for a poor O line ( this is a personnel issue) and for trying to "pace out" Rivers over the course of the season. The problem still remains, you fire Turner, you fire Smith, you get a good personnel guy, and the INTs will not stop. IMHO, Rivers is losing touch, accuracy and velocity. I think Turner does a poor job of hiding some of River's new problems, but I think some problems with the playcalling are because of it. I think Turner and Smith have done plenty ( or done little) enough to generate the ill will they get sometimes, but Rivers is not blameless. This is like fans saying Favre coughed up so many INTs because he felt like he had no help and had no choice but to take over the game by himself. One of River's best attributes - his never say die toughness and his complete belief he can make any throw is a good thing. Until it comes to a point where he refuses to accept his limitations. I'll say it again, his mechanics are screwed up. And the rest of his skill set can no longer compensate for them and it's progressively wearing him down during late game and late season situations. He's getting a lot of coverage over these issues because his coach is a walking lightening rod and he's playing in a pro passing era. His numbers are great, if you watch them and compare them historically. But line them up to his current peers and you can see he is also a product of this specific era. Rivers IMHO is starting to become a case where the "name" and juice from past achievements are going to carry more weight than what he can give you right now. I think people are taking their disdain for LHUCKs and the word "mediocre" to avoid the issue that what Rivers will give you going forward is still a salient question and that Rivers is not completely blameless for the Chargers current struggles. Take out the word "mediocre" and the question still comes to you. What is this guy going to give you the rest of the season? Next season?
Click to expand...
Lhucks didn't ask if Rivers is a mediocre QB now, he asked if Rivers has always been a mediocre QB. And the answer to the latter question is most certainly 'no'.
 
I read the questions as follows:

1. Is Rivers a mediocre NFL QB now?

2. Was Rivers an overrated NFL QB?

For the second question, the timing is not clear. For example, is the question referring to Rivers being overrated entering this season, for his entire career, or for some other time period?

Also, to answer whether or not Rivers was overrated at some point, we need an understanding of how he was rated at that point. It has been fairly rare in my experience to see NFL QB rankings that have Rivers in the top 5, and most do not tend to have him in the top 10. Certainly, the media does not tend to rank him very highly.

 
Again, in NFL terms, his career numbers are HOF worthy. He's not yet 31, so could easily put up some huge totals before he retires. His mechanics have always looked weird- but that didn't stop him from being very accurate on all types of throws. He has been saddled with a horrible coach, poor offensive line and almost always subpar receivers around him. I think this makes his accomplishments all the more impressive.

Fantasy wise, Rivers has been exceptional most every year. Even last season, his 4600+ yards and 27 TDs were QB1 numbers. So either way, he is elite, in my view. Numbers do matter, especially in fantasy. And they don't lie. Rivers continues to be underrated and underappreciated, by the media and on this board.

 
'GordonGekko said:
IMHO, Rivers is losing touch, accuracy and velocity.
Click to expand...
Can you elaborate on this?I watch almost all Chargers games and have not seen any such thing. In the most recent game against the Saints:- Rivers hit Meachem on a nice back shoulder throw that went roughly 30 yards in the air for a TD- Rivers hit Meachem on a TD thrown 43 yards in the air after a slight rollout- Rivers threw a well placed ball to Floyd down the middle that was thrown 30 yards in the air, tipped, and intercepted; it looked like DPI to me but wasn't called; if it wasn't DPI, Floyd should have made the catch, the ball was there- Rivers hit Gates on a perfectly placed pass thrown 38 yards in the air on the phantom OPI call on the last drive- Rivers hit Floyd on the next play after the Gates OPI call with a perfectly placed pass that went 30 yards in the air to the left sideline, but it was called back due to holdingYou say he is losing accuracy, yet he is currently #6 among NFL QBs in completion percentage. PFF tracks a metric called Deep Passing, which measures the accuracy of all balls targeted 20+ yards downfield; Rivers is currently #9 among NFL QBs with at least 10 deep pass attempts.I'm interested in opinions of other Chargers fans who have watched Rivers' games this year.
 
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'SameSongNDance said:
I suppose he has but a lot of QBs would look rather mediocre (Rodgers vs. SEA) when getting hurried/sacked so often. Rivers has showed us what he can do with a bit of time in the pocket.
Click to expand...
Big Ben has been sacked/hurried as much as any QB for years with a crappy offensive line. He still has found a way to win two Super Bowls. Yes Rivers is overrated a bit.
 
'SameSongNDance said:
I suppose he has but a lot of QBs would look rather mediocre (Rodgers vs. SEA) when getting hurried/sacked so often. Rivers has showed us what he can do with a bit of time in the pocket.
Click to expand...
Big Ben has been sacked/hurried as much as any QB for years with a crappy offensive line. He still has found a way to win two Super Bowls. Yes Rivers is overrated a bit.
 
For those of you that haven't been able to get your votes in...

 
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