Is Roy Halladay a Hall of Famer? (1 Viewer)

[Smack Tripper]

So Roy Halladay is on his way to visit Dr. Yocum at the age of 35 with shoulder issues. Its starting to look like the end of the road if its the shoulder.

If this is the end, is he HOFer?

The resume...

201 W

103 L

3.35 ERA

16 seasons

2719 innings

2097 K

569 BB

2620 Hits allowed

1.173 WHIP

Career WAR of 66

ER+ 132

20 career shutouts

Two time Cy Young

6 top 5 finishes in Cy Young

Perfect Game

second post season no hitter in history

My vote, if this is the end, is yes.

 

[sporthenry]

I'm no expert but it just seems his counting stats are very low. I assumed he needed 2-3 more years of solid stats just to pick up some more wins. Granted he played on Toronto for a long time. I'd love to see him there but it seems the Hall prefers sustained good play over brief dominant play.

 

[Raider Nation]

Not close.

 

[RnR]

Depends on how they chose to define him.

If you look at the total numbers, they fall short of your typical HOF starting pitcher.

If you look at him in the scope of his era, he was a top 3 pitcher in baseball for a full decade.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

He's close, but ruining his chances with every start.

 

[Raider Nation]

List all of the modern-era starting pitchers with 201 or fewer victories who are in the HOF. That number will be the killer.

 

[Raider Nation]

The poll is odd, Smack. "No" and "needs to do more" are basically the same answer.

Combining those two numbers against the "Yes" votes will yield a fair opinion.

 

[sporthenry]

List all of the modern-era starting pitchers with 201 or fewer victories who are in the HOF. That number will be the killer.

To be fair, wins are going to plunge in the very near future. We might not see another 300 game winner and you have Pedro at 219 who will get in.

And then once you get beyond Pettitte, which current pitchers are likely HOFers? You have Verlander, Kershaw, Felix, etc but they are still young. You have CC who will probably continue to accumulate stats but he never seemed as dominant as Halladay. Hudson? Buehrle? Lee? Pitchers are going to have be evaluated using different standards going forward.

 

[Raider Nation]

List all of the modern-era starting pitchers with 201 or fewer victories who are in the HOF. That number will be the killer.

To be fair, wins are going to plunge in the very near future. We might not see another 300 game winner and you have Pedro at 219 who will get in. And then once you get beyond Pettitte, which current pitchers are likely HOFers? You have Verlander, Kershaw, Felix, etc but they are still young. You have CC who will probably continue to accumulate stats but he never seemed as dominant as Halladay. Hudson? Buehrle? Lee? Pitchers are going to have be evaluated using different standards going forward.

Maddux has 355 wins and his career ended less than 5 years ago.

 

[shadyridr]

Id say yes. He was dominant for a long stretch of time.

 

[Smack Tripper]

The poll is odd, Smack. "No" and "needs to do more" are basically the same answer.

Combining those two numbers against the "Yes" votes will yield a fair opinion.

Well, its a weird moment for him given the injury. I'm presuming the worst, some sort of rotator cuff, which at the age of 35 would effectively end his career, as any sort of dominant guy as we've known.

You are right in concept but I didn't know that middle ground to balance. If this was a rotator cuff, we are looking at a year off at minimum so the book may not be closed but we could be getting to the last chapter.

If his career was definitely over, this would be yes or no.

 

[pollardsvision]

I think so.

His 65.3 career WAR is ahead of a whole bunch of HOFers. His peak 7 years of WAR is higher than a ton more, and markedly higher than Nolan Ryan (50.6 to 43.3).

If a decade of sheer dominance isn't enough, then we need to rethink this whole HOF fame thing. People can't ##### about PEDs in one breath, then hold against people when they look like a 36 YO at the age of 36 in the next.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Is Tim Hudson a HOF?

 

[sporthenry]

List all of the modern-era starting pitchers with 201 or fewer victories who are in the HOF. That number will be the killer.

To be fair, wins are going to plunge in the very near future. We might not see another 300 game winner and you have Pedro at 219 who will get in. And then once you get beyond Pettitte, which current pitchers are likely HOFers? You have Verlander, Kershaw, Felix, etc but they are still young. You have CC who will probably continue to accumulate stats but he never seemed as dominant as Halladay. Hudson? Buehrle? Lee? Pitchers are going to have be evaluated using different standards going forward.

Maddux has 355 wins and his career ended less than 5 years ago.

He won 15 games as a 40 year old and 14 as a 41 year old. I don't think you can expect anyone to replicate that. Not to mention, he came up in a different time period. At 22, his 2nd full year, he threw 249 innings. No inning counts and he came up very early. Now you have teams letting their players dwell in the minors to keep them under control.

And then the question is, who do you think is going to win 300 games? 200 might become the new 300. Hernandez would have to average more than 15 wins for the next 13 years and he is already showing some signs of wearing down. Verlander has to average 17 over the next 10 years. Beyond that, I don't even think anyone has a realistic shot unless they morph into Greg Maddux in the twilight of their careers.

 

[pollardsvision]

Is Tim Hudson a HOF?

Saw a column on this last week.Love him, but no I don't think he could really be considered a legitimate candidate.One thing I wouldn't put past Huddy, though, is hitting 40 as a pretty effective pitcher. I wouldn't be shocked to see him end up clearing 250 wins with relative ease.

 

[shadyridr]

Sabathia can win 300. He needs to average 13 wins a season until age 40

 

[Limp Ditka]

Is Tim Hudson a HOF?

Saw a column on this last week.Love him, but no I don't think he could really be considered a legitimate candidate.One thing I wouldn't put past Huddy, though, is hitting 40 as a pretty effective pitcher. I wouldn't be shocked to see him end up clearing 250 wins with relative ease.

Their numbers are amazingly similar until you get into the stats

Hudson: 413 games (412 started) / 201 - 105 / 3.43 / 1.23

Halladay: 410 games (384 started) / 201 - 104 / 3.37 / 1.17

 

[shadyridr]

Is Tim Hudson a HOF?

Saw a column on this last week.Love him, but no I don't think he could really be considered a legitimate candidate.One thing I wouldn't put past Huddy, though, is hitting 40 as a pretty effective pitcher. I wouldn't be shocked to see him end up clearing 250 wins with relative ease.

Their numbers are amazingly similar until you get into the stats

Hudson: 413 games (412 started) / 201 - 105 / 3.43 / 1.23

Halladay: 410 games (384 started) / 201 - 104 / 3.37 / 1.17

cy youngs? k's?

 

[Limp Ditka]

Is Tim Hudson a HOF?

Saw a column on this last week.Love him, but no I don't think he could really be considered a legitimate candidate.One thing I wouldn't put past Huddy, though, is hitting 40 as a pretty effective pitcher. I wouldn't be shocked to see him end up clearing 250 wins with relative ease.

Their numbers are amazingly similar until you get into the stats

Hudson: 413 games (412 started) / 201 - 105 / 3.43 / 1.23

Halladay: 410 games (384 started) / 201 - 104 / 3.37 / 1.17

cy youngs? k's?

Roy definitely has more hardware, and at their respective peaks, Halladay was certainly a better pitcher.

But over the career, the results are essentially the same. 2100Ks vs 1800Ks over 2700 innings. Is this really ammo in the discussion? It's only .8 more per 9 innings pitched. Whoopie.

 

[shadyridr]

Is Tim Hudson a HOF?

Saw a column on this last week.Love him, but no I don't think he could really be considered a legitimate candidate.One thing I wouldn't put past Huddy, though, is hitting 40 as a pretty effective pitcher. I wouldn't be shocked to see him end up clearing 250 wins with relative ease.

Their numbers are amazingly similar until you get into the stats

Hudson: 413 games (412 started) / 201 - 105 / 3.43 / 1.23

Halladay: 410 games (384 started) / 201 - 104 / 3.37 / 1.17

cy youngs? k's?

Roy definitely has more hardware, and at their respective peaks, Halladay was certainly a better pitcher.

But over the career, the results are essentially the same. 2100Ks vs 1800Ks over 2700 innings. Is this really ammo in the discussion? It's only .8 more per 9 innings pitched. Whoopie.

no I was really asking how many k's each had

 

[pollardsvision]

Funny. Huddy's only Top 2 CY finish came in his 2nd worst ERA season ever. The stupid pull of the almighty W.

 

[Michael Brown]

Most people under the age of 50 (and a good chunk over 50) understand how overrated wins are nowadays, so I don't think that will be held against him. Sure, his dominant stretch wasn't as dominant as Pedro Martinez, but there's no shame in being not as good as Pedro. If Halladay isn't a Hall of Famer, they should close the place. The fact that he didn't have 3-4 mediocre seasons to pad another 35-40 wins onto his resume is gonna keep him out? Cmon

 

[Eephus]

Most people under the age of 50 (and a good chunk over 50) understand how overrated wins are nowadays, so I don't think that will be held against him. Sure, his dominant stretch wasn't as dominant as Pedro Martinez, but there's no shame in being not as good as Pedro. If Halladay isn't a Hall of Famer, they should close the place. The fact that he didn't have 3-4 mediocre seasons to pad another 35-40 wins onto his resume is gonna keep him out? Cmon

There's only been one starting pitcher voted in by the BBWAA in the 21st century. Never underestimate the ridiculousness of the HoF process.

 

[sporthenry]

Is Tim Hudson a HOF?

Saw a column on this last week.Love him, but no I don't think he could really be considered a legitimate candidate.One thing I wouldn't put past Huddy, though, is hitting 40 as a pretty effective pitcher. I wouldn't be shocked to see him end up clearing 250 wins with relative ease.

Their numbers are amazingly similar until you get into the stats

Hudson: 413 games (412 started) / 201 - 105 / 3.43 / 1.23

Halladay: 410 games (384 started) / 201 - 104 / 3.37 / 1.17

cy youngs? k's?

Roy definitely has more hardware, and at their respective peaks, Halladay was certainly a better pitcher.

But over the career, the results are essentially the same. 2100Ks vs 1800Ks over 2700 innings. Is this really ammo in the discussion? It's only .8 more per 9 innings pitched. Whoopie.

I think this becomes the important question. Is Hudson being very good for something like 12 years better than Halladay's dominance over 4-6 years. I tend to prefer the guy who was dominant as I look at it as, if you had to win a game 7 in the playoffs, who would you rather have on the mound? Halladay or Hudson? Ultimately, I don't think either makes it and Hudson might serve to keep Halladay out.

 

[shadyridr]

Most people under the age of 50 (and a good chunk over 50) understand how overrated wins are nowadays, so I don't think that will be held against him. Sure, his dominant stretch wasn't as dominant as Pedro Martinez, but there's no shame in being not as good as Pedro. If Halladay isn't a Hall of Famer, they should close the place. The fact that he didn't have 3-4 mediocre seasons to pad another 35-40 wins onto his resume is gonna keep him out? Cmon

This is kind of my thinking as well

 

[Thunderlips]

Is he better than Schill?......

 

[Michael Brown]

Similar, but i like roy a slight notch better. I think i've mentioned on here that i didn't think schilling was a HOFer but i have since come around on the idea. Had to get past the hatred first

 

[shadyridr]

Is he better than Schill?......

i think so

 

[sporthenry]

Is he better than Schill?......

i think so

Yeah, but isn't some of Schilling's profile going to be his playoff stats and performance. 11-2 2.23 ERA and all the theatrics with the bloody sock.Halladay's no slouch with 3-2 2.37 ERA and of course the no-hitter but again he sort of suffers from not having more chances to become a legend in October.

 

[shadyridr]

Is he better than Schill?......

i think so

Yeah, but isn't some of Schilling's profile going to be his playoff stats and performance. 11-2 2.23 ERA and all the theatrics with the bloody sock.Halladay's no slouch with 3-2 2.37 ERA and of course the no-hitter but again he sort of suffers from not having more chances to become a legend in October.

its hard to compare playoff stats based simply on volume. The way i look at it, both guys were awesome in the playoffs. That being said, the question was is he better than schill and i said i think so. He was simply more dominant for a longer stretch than schill.

 

[Northern Voice]

There was a lot of discussion in my twitter feed today of Halladay vs. Kevin Brown. You can make a good case that Brown us more deserving.

Obviously, I think Halladay should be in because, Blue Jays.

 

[Eephus]

There was a lot of discussion in my twitter feed today of Halladay vs. Kevin Brown. You can make a good case that Brown us more deserving.Obviously, I think Halladay should be in because, Blue Jays.

Brown's vagabond ways and his ##### factor worked against him in the BBWAA vote. He still deserved way more than 2.1% he received on his only appearance on the HoF ballot.

 

[njherdfan]

I'd assume he's going to get in. If he's not going to be a HOFer, there won't be very many SP getting in to the hall in the future after this generation of pitchers retires.

 

[Eephus]

I'd assume he's going to get in. If he's not going to be a HOFer, there won't be very many SP getting in to the hall in the future after this generation of pitchers retires.

It's crazy that more RP than SP have been elected recently.

 

[sporthenry]

Well on the topic of Roy.

Charlie Manuel couldn't tell us much about Halladay but he did say "he should be fine..and there's a great chance of pitchn again this yr.

Doc is scheduled for a press conference at 2.

 

[Smack Tripper]

There was a lot of discussion in my twitter feed today of Halladay vs. Kevin Brown. You can make a good case that Brown us more deserving.Obviously, I think Halladay should be in because, Blue Jays.

There was a lot of discussion in my twitter feed today of Halladay vs. Kevin Brown. You can make a good case that Brown us more deserving.Obviously, I think Halladay should be in because, Blue Jays.

Brown's vagabond ways and his ##### factor worked against him in the BBWAA vote. He still deserved way more than 2.1% he received on his only appearance on the HoF ballot.

fascinating stuff guys...

What I like about Halladay is that unbroken run of dominance, but Brown deserves, and/or deserved a longer look, he really did have a strong overall number.

 

[Don Quixote]

@magelb: Roy Halladay has a bone spur that caused fraying to his rotator cuff&labrum. He will have surgery. Mentioned 3 months.

...Not great news, but also not the worst possible, I guess.

 

[Eephus]

@magelb: Roy Halladay has a bone spur that caused fraying to his rotator cuff&labrum. He will have surgery. Mentioned 3 months.

...Not great news, but also not the worst possible, I guess.

If he can get two or three more decent years to accumulate some career stats, it'll be huge for his Hall candidacy.

 

[rodg12]

I say yes, but who the heck knows who's going to be voted into the HOF nowadays. In 10 years there may be 20 legitimate guys on the ballot and nobody gets in. Place is a mess and the sports writers are the worst.