Jacoby or James -- Which is the better Jones sleeper? (1 Viewer)

[Wilbur Wood]

Primarily from a redraft standpoint, although keeper comments welcome.

Both James Jones at Green Bay and Jacoby Jones at Houston have become very trendy WR rookie sleepers. Likely many of us can only afford to commit to one of these guys (or the other one will cost too much or go to early because of the hype).

Jacoby has electrified on kick returns. He will make a few more big plays, but I think that James is the better producer for 2007, especially in a PPR format.

Opinions, views, comments welcome.

 

[Mystery Achiever]

i'm starting to associate the term overvalued with these two more than sleeper. the hype is getting a little thick esp. for jacoby. you can get james later and i actually like his situation better.

 

[EBF]

My gut says Jacoby might be a little bit overrated right now. Yea, he had a nice TD catch and has reportedly had a good camp, but I think his long kick return (which is kind of irrelevant really) has probably inflated his value a bit more than it should have.

James looks a little more legit to me at this point in time.

 

[seatownfavorite]

I say James because of the fact that Bret seems to look for him around the goalline where Jacoby has had some great kick returns. I would take the receptions over returns every day.

 

[The Kansas Comet]

I would pick James because I think Green Bay will throw much more than Houston and I imagine Jacoby's role in special teams will slightly limit the number of snaps he sees on offense.

 

[jonessed]

Jacoby always went at least two or three rounds earlier than James in my drafts. I think he is over-hyped. James went 12th or below which is where you want to take a chance anyway.

 

[Jason Wood]

I think James Jones is the better value AND will outperform Jacoby this year.

 

[-X-]

It all depends on your league, if you have rules allowing players to get special teams yardage, Jacoby has much more value. All things being equal (no return yardage), it's going to be close, but I still like Jacoby better.

 

[Junta]

My gut says Jacoby might be a little bit overrated right now. Yea, he had a nice TD catch and has reportedly had a good camp, but I think his long kick return (which is kind of irrelevant really) has probably inflated his value a bit more than it should have. James looks a little more legit to me at this point in time.

Yes, back to back game, 80/90 yd kick returns for TD by a 6-2, 210 lb rookie reciever are irrelevant and provide no indication of Jacoby's athleticism, speed , or elusiveness. Great fantasy receivers make their bones with YAC and getting in the paint. If those kick returns don't give some indication of what this kid might do with the ball after he catches it, I don't know what will. Nothing against James and not even going to guess which one is going to be more productive this year, but to diminish what Jacoby has flashed so far as no big deal is kind of clueless. The TD catch was not too shabby either.

 

[EBF]

My gut says Jacoby might be a little bit overrated right now. Yea, he had a nice TD catch and has reportedly had a good camp, but I think his long kick return (which is kind of irrelevant really) has probably inflated his value a bit more than it should have. James looks a little more legit to me at this point in time.

Yes, back to back game, 80/90 yd kick returns for TD by a 6-2, 210 lb rookie reciever are irrelevant and provide no indication of Jacoby's athleticism, speed , or elusiveness. Great fantasy receivers make their bones with YAC and getting in the pain. If those kick returns don't give some indication of what this kid might do with the ball after he catches it, I don't know what will. Nothing against James and not even going to guess which one is going to be more productive this year, but to diminish what Jacoby has flashed so far as no big deal is kind of clueless. The TD catch was not too shabby either.

The skill set required to be a great returner is not identical to the skill set required to be a great WR. If it was, Dante Hall and Devin Hester would be superstar receivers. I agree that any sign of athleticism is a plus, but I don't think one should read too much into a player's return ability as an indication of his merit as a receiver.

 

[greedygoat]

My gut says Jacoby might be a little bit overrated right now. Yea, he had a nice TD catch and has reportedly had a good camp, but I think his long kick return (which is kind of irrelevant really) has probably inflated his value a bit more than it should have. James looks a little more legit to me at this point in time.

Yes, back to back game, 80/90 yd kick returns for TD by a 6-2, 210 lb rookie reciever are irrelevant and provide no indication of Jacoby's athleticism, speed , or elusiveness. Great fantasy receivers make their bones with YAC and getting in the pain. If those kick returns don't give some indication of what this kid might do with the ball after he catches it, I don't know what will. Nothing against James and not even going to guess which one is going to be more productive this year, but to diminish what Jacoby has flashed so far as no big deal is kind of clueless. The TD catch was not too shabby either.

But if you take away the TD catch and 2 kickoff returns he's only had 7 catches and zero TD's this preseason = overrated.

 

[GroveDiesel]

i'm starting to associate the term overvalued with these two more than sleeper. the hype is getting a little thick esp. for jacoby. you can get james later and i actually like his situation better.

Really? I know there's been a lot of talk here at FBG, but is there really that much hype around these guys in everyday drafts? I've seen a few comments here and there about James on some of the mainstream sites, but I'm not sure that these guys are really shooting up the draft boards for your average fantasy players. The league that I already drafted in has a bunch of football fans that mostly know their stuff. They're probably not as as I am about fantasy football but there weren't too many goofy picks. And when I took BOTH Joneses with my last two picks, most of the guys had no idea who either one of them were.In fact, a quick look at Antsports's ADP info seems to confirm my suspicion. James and Jacoby Jones are both right around the 70th WR taken and were taken in a relatively small number of mock drafts. In real drafts they're going about 10 spots higher than that. They're still undrafted in about 80% and 66% of all drafts respectively.

 

[Raider Nation]

Very close, so I break it down this way. I believe that Jacoby has an easier path to steady #2 work (once the coaches figure out that he's WAAAY better than Kevin Walter). James, OTOH, still has to fight for Driver's table scraps with Greg Jennings.

 

[JohnnyU]

I prefer the Jim Jones kool-aid.

 

[Junta]

My gut says Jacoby might be a little bit overrated right now. Yea, he had a nice TD catch and has reportedly had a good camp, but I think his long kick return (which is kind of irrelevant really) has probably inflated his value a bit more than it should have. James looks a little more legit to me at this point in time.

Yes, back to back game, 80/90 yd kick returns for TD by a 6-2, 210 lb rookie reciever are irrelevant and provide no indication of Jacoby's athleticism, speed , or elusiveness. Great fantasy receivers make their bones with YAC and getting in the paint. If those kick returns don't give some indication of what this kid might do with the ball after he catches it, I don't know what will. Nothing against James and not even going to guess which one is going to be more productive this year, but to diminish what Jacoby has flashed so far as no big deal is kind of clueless. The TD catch was not too shabby either.

The skill set required to be a great returner is not identical to the skill set required to be a great WR. If it was, Dante Hall and Devin Hester would be superstar receivers. I agree that any sign of athleticism is a plus, but I don't think one should read too much into a player's return ability as an indication of his merit as a receiver.

Dante Hall - 5'8", 185Devin Hester - 5'11" 185Size matters.

 

[Gr00vus]

I prefer the Jim Jones kool-aid.

You wouldn't be here if you really did.

 

[DenverBuc]

My gut says Jacoby might be a little bit overrated right now. Yea, he had a nice TD catch and has reportedly had a good camp, but I think his long kick return (which is kind of irrelevant really) has probably inflated his value a bit more than it should have. James looks a little more legit to me at this point in time.

Yes, back to back game, 80/90 yd kick returns for TD by a 6-2, 210 lb rookie reciever are irrelevant and provide no indication of Jacoby's athleticism, speed , or elusiveness. Great fantasy receivers make their bones with YAC and getting in the pain. If those kick returns don't give some indication of what this kid might do with the ball after he catches it, I don't know what will. Nothing against James and not even going to guess which one is going to be more productive this year, but to diminish what Jacoby has flashed so far as no big deal is kind of clueless. The TD catch was not too shabby either.

But if you take away the TD catch and 2 kickoff returns he's only had 7 catches and zero TD's this preseason = overrated.

How many times do we have to say that this is faulty reasoning??? If you take away anyone's stats, they have nothing left. This is horribly bad logic. You can not take away anything. The players do what they do - no more and no less.

 

[Jayrod]

My gut says Jacoby might be a little bit overrated right now. Yea, he had a nice TD catch and has reportedly had a good camp, but I think his long kick return (which is kind of irrelevant really) has probably inflated his value a bit more than it should have. James looks a little more legit to me at this point in time.

Yes, back to back game, 80/90 yd kick returns for TD by a 6-2, 210 lb rookie reciever are irrelevant and provide no indication of Jacoby's athleticism, speed , or elusiveness. Great fantasy receivers make their bones with YAC and getting in the pain. If those kick returns don't give some indication of what this kid might do with the ball after he catches it, I don't know what will. Nothing against James and not even going to guess which one is going to be more productive this year, but to diminish what Jacoby has flashed so far as no big deal is kind of clueless. The TD catch was not too shabby either.

The skill set required to be a great returner is not identical to the skill set required to be a great WR. If it was, Dante Hall and Devin Hester would be superstar receivers. I agree that any sign of athleticism is a plus, but I don't think one should read too much into a player's return ability as an indication of his merit as a receiver.

Steve Smith started out primarily as a returner.

 

[JohnnyU]

I prefer the Jim Jones kool-aid.

You wouldn't be here if you really did.

Hey man, I was there. I was one of the waiters, not one of the drinkers.

 

[greedygoat]

My gut says Jacoby might be a little bit overrated right now. Yea, he had a nice TD catch and has reportedly had a good camp, but I think his long kick return (which is kind of irrelevant really) has probably inflated his value a bit more than it should have. James looks a little more legit to me at this point in time.

Yes, back to back game, 80/90 yd kick returns for TD by a 6-2, 210 lb rookie reciever are irrelevant and provide no indication of Jacoby's athleticism, speed , or elusiveness. Great fantasy receivers make their bones with YAC and getting in the pain. If those kick returns don't give some indication of what this kid might do with the ball after he catches it, I don't know what will. Nothing against James and not even going to guess which one is going to be more productive this year, but to diminish what Jacoby has flashed so far as no big deal is kind of clueless. The TD catch was not too shabby either.

But if you take away the TD catch and 2 kickoff returns he's only had 7 catches and zero TD's this preseason = overrated.

How many times do we have to say that this is faulty reasoning??? If you take away anyone's stats, they have nothing left. This is horribly bad logic. You can not take away anything. The players do what they do - no more and no less.

:(

 

[FBGPoker]

James Jones is a much better redzone target, Jacoby is more of a big play guy who will be inconsistent from week to week IMO.

James Jones will be used to run a lot of intermediate routes which will give him more targets then a Jacoby type WR. Also James has unbelievable hands (the catch last game he went on to fumble was a laser thrown away from his body and he made it look routine).

I like them both, but James could develop into the 100+ reception potential type whereas i don't see Jacoby being the type who can get a ton of receptions and he won't be a great redzone reciever.

 

[Junta]

James Jones is a much better redzone target, Jacoby is more of a big play guy who will be inconsistent from week to week IMO.

Why is James Jones a better red zone target?

James Jones will be used to run a lot of intermediate routes which will give him more targets then a Jacoby type WR. Also James has unbelievable hands (the catch last game he went on to fumble was a laser thrown away from his body and he made it look routine).

Do you have info on Jacoby dropped balls?

I like them both, but James could develop into the 100+ reception potential type whereas i don't see Jacoby being the type who can get a ton of receptions and he won't be a great redzone reciever.

Why won't he be a great red zone target?

 

[code]

Disclaimer: Scooped up both as late round picks and interested to see how they develop

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

Granted, my league is full of Green Bay homers, so this might skew things......but James Jones went in late round 1 of our rookie draft, while Jacoby fell to round 3. In a redraft, I'd expect Jacoby to go earlier, in a dynasty, I'd see James Jones as the better pick. [Driver is getting old....Jones might replace him in 1-2 years; Jacoby will be #2 behind Andre Johnson basically forever]

 

[greedygoat]

James Jones is a much better redzone target, Jacoby is more of a big play guy who will be inconsistent from week to week IMO.

Why is James Jones a better red zone target?

James Jones will be used to run a lot of intermediate routes which will give him more targets then a Jacoby type WR. Also James has unbelievable hands (the catch last game he went on to fumble was a laser thrown away from his body and he made it look routine).

Do you have info on Jacoby dropped balls?

I like them both, but James could develop into the 100+ reception potential type whereas i don't see Jacoby being the type who can get a ton of receptions and he won't be a great redzone reciever.

Why won't he be a great red zone target?

He has unbelievable hands yet he fumbled the ball away the very same play, maybe you meant unbelievably buttery.2 receivers, one is 6'1" 207 lbs. and the other is 6'2" 210 lbs. yet the smaller of the two, albeit one inch, is the much better redzone target?

 

[PsychoMan]

Size matters.

That's what she said.

 

[Junta]

Granted, my league is full of Green Bay homers, so this might skew things......but James Jones went in late round 1 of our rookie draft, while Jacoby fell to round 3. In a redraft, I'd expect Jacoby to go earlier, in a dynasty, I'd see James Jones as the better pick. [Driver is getting old....Jones might replace him in 1-2 years; Jacoby will be #2 behind Andre Johnson basically forever]

Having an elite #1 on the other side would definitely be a downgrade to Jacoby. (see Houshmandzadeh, Boldin, R Wayne)

 

[FBGPoker]

James Jones is a much better redzone target, Jacoby is more of a big play guy who will be inconsistent from week to week IMO.

Why is James Jones a better red zone target?

James Jones will be used to run a lot of intermediate routes which will give him more targets then a Jacoby type WR. Also James has unbelievable hands (the catch last game he went on to fumble was a laser thrown away from his body and he made it look routine).

Do you have info on Jacoby dropped balls?

I like them both, but James could develop into the 100+ reception potential type whereas i don't see Jacoby being the type who can get a ton of receptions and he won't be a great redzone reciever.

Why won't he be a great red zone target?

From what i've seen of them and the numerous scouting reports.Jones scouting reports all talked about his hands and ability to go over the middle. Plus in watching him it is clear his hands are exceptional and he shields defenders from the ball with his body. He was a great high school basketball player and knows how to use his body.

Jacoby's reports talk about how he's not natural at catching the ball and uses his body to catch. Also talks about his choppy route running and how he's mostly a long ball threat. He was recruited as a track guy, not a football player.

I like Jacoby, but he's a lot more raw than James and isn't near as natural at the WR position.

 

[FBGPoker]

He has unbelievable hands yet he fumbled the ball away the very same play, maybe you meant unbelievably buttery.2 receivers, one is 6'1" 207 lbs. and the other is 6'2" 210 lbs. yet the smaller of the two, albeit one inch, is the much better redzone target?

That fumble had nothing to do with his hands as far as catching the ball. He has caught everything in sight all through the preseason. Find me one person who disagrees that his hands aren't great who has seen him.Size doesn't = redzone ability. Being able to find open spots in a defense, having great hands, and being able to use your body does. James is far more developed in all those areas at this time.Jacoby never had over 6 TD's in a college season.

 

[BLOX]

He has unbelievable hands yet he fumbled the ball away the very same play, maybe you meant unbelievably buttery.2 receivers, one is 6'1" 207 lbs. and the other is 6'2" 210 lbs. yet the smaller of the two, albeit one inch, is the much better redzone target?

That fumble had nothing to do with his hands as far as catching the ball. He has caught everything in sight all through the preseason. Find me one person who disagrees that his hands aren't great who has seen him.Size doesn't = redzone ability. Being able to find open spots in a defense, having great hands, and being able to use your body does. James is far more developed in all those areas at this time.Jacoby never had over 6 TD's in a college season.

The fumble had nothing to do with his hands. He didn't put the ball away. That's something he'll learn soon enough. James Jones has a God-given gift to go and get the ball at it's highest point and the hands that allow him to catch any ball thrown within his reach. He's going to be an excellent pro and will put up very, very good numbers as the #3WR in Green Bay. I don't know if he'll overtake Jennings as the #2, but as Jennings has learned all of the WR positions I wouldn't be surprised to see a 2A/2B situation.Driver/Jennings/J. Jones >>>>>> Roy Williams/Calvin Johnson/Mike Furrey

 

[kensat30]

Jacoby doesn't need an injury to start.

 

[greedygoat]

He has unbelievable hands yet he fumbled the ball away the very same play, maybe you meant unbelievably buttery.

2 receivers, one is 6'1" 207 lbs. and the other is 6'2" 210 lbs. yet the smaller of the two, albeit one inch, is the much better redzone target?

That fumble had nothing to do with his hands as far as catching the ball. He has caught everything in sight all through the preseason. Find me one person who disagrees that his hands aren't great who has seen him.Size doesn't = redzone ability. Being able to find open spots in a defense, having great hands, and being able to use your body does. James is far more developed in all those areas at this time.

Jacoby never had over 6 TD's in a college season.

The fumble had nothing to do with his hands. He didn't put the ball away. That's something he'll learn soon enough. James Jones has a God-given gift to go and get the ball at it's highest point and the hands that allow him to catch any ball thrown within his reach. He's going to be an excellent pro and will put up very, very good numbers as the #3WR in Green Bay. I don't know if he'll overtake Jennings as the #2, but as Jennings has learned all of the WR positions I wouldn't be surprised to see a 2A/2B situation.Driver/Jennings/J. Jones >>>>>> Roy Williams/Calvin Johnson/Mike Furrey

The ism on the board is usually at it's peak this time of year, but you take the cake.

 

[EBF]

My gut says Jacoby might be a little bit overrated right now. Yea, he had a nice TD catch and has reportedly had a good camp, but I think his long kick return (which is kind of irrelevant really) has probably inflated his value a bit more than it should have. James looks a little more legit to me at this point in time.

Yes, back to back game, 80/90 yd kick returns for TD by a 6-2, 210 lb rookie reciever are irrelevant and provide no indication of Jacoby's athleticism, speed , or elusiveness. Great fantasy receivers make their bones with YAC and getting in the paint. If those kick returns don't give some indication of what this kid might do with the ball after he catches it, I don't know what will. Nothing against James and not even going to guess which one is going to be more productive this year, but to diminish what Jacoby has flashed so far as no big deal is kind of clueless. The TD catch was not too shabby either.

The skill set required to be a great returner is not identical to the skill set required to be a great WR. If it was, Dante Hall and Devin Hester would be superstar receivers. I agree that any sign of athleticism is a plus, but I don't think one should read too much into a player's return ability as an indication of his merit as a receiver.

Dante Hall - 5'8", 185Devin Hester - 5'11" 185Size matters.

So because Jacoby is bigger than Hester, he's somehow a better WR? That seems to be what you're implying. If that's truly your stance, I'd point out the major success of smallish WRs like Steve Smith, Santana Moss, Lee Evans, and Marvin Harrison. Clearly you don't have to be 6'2" to be a great NFL WR. A good chunk of the best WRs in the league fall in the 5'11"-6'0" range. Steve Smith isn't much bigger than Dante Hall. Lee Evans isn't much bigger than Devin Hester. If size was truly as important as you seem to be suggesting, then guys like Evans and Smith shouldn't be so effective. I still maintain that the skills Jacoby has shown as a return man aren't necessarily a significant indicator of his potential as a WR. That said, he was a high draft pick and his early results have been promising, so it's not like he's hopeless.

 

[ryanlc]

10 man league, 16 round draft with sharks who have been playing together for 8 years, I picked James up on the waiver wire after the draft. Whether he outperforms his adp or not, it's a value pick. I had him eartagged weeks before all the hype started up, and perhaps we drafted early enough to avoid all that. Either way, I don't "draft" him...ever. I will take him for free in a heartbeat though.

my .02

 

[whodeywhodey]

Having an elite #1 on the other side would definitely be a downgrade to Jacoby. (see Houshmandzadeh, Boldin, R Wayne)

I strongly disagree with this statement. I think that having a strong WR on the other side actually helps rookie WRs like Jacoby. Last year Colston had a then borderline elite WR in Horn. While I think having a good #2 WR obviously helps Andre Johnson with the double teams, I also think that having a good #1 WR that will draw the #1 CB and safety attention helps Jocoby as well.Besides, this argument makes absolutely no sense. It actually applies more to James who has a bonafide stud in Driver and also another good WR in Jennings to compete with.

So by your own rationale you have answered your own question - Jacoby is the better of the 2 because he has only 1 other "threat" on his team to steal his times targeted.

 

[Jayrod]

Having an elite #1 on the other side would definitely be a downgrade to Jacoby. (see Houshmandzadeh, Boldin, R Wayne)

I strongly disagree with this statement. I think that having a strong WR on the other side actually helps rookie WRs like Jacoby. Last year Colston had a then borderline elite WR in Horn. While I think having a good #2 WR obviously helps Andre Johnson with the double teams, I also think that having a good #1 WR that will draw the #1 CB and safety attention helps Jocoby as well.Besides, this argument makes absolutely no sense. It actually applies more to James who has a bonafide stud in Driver and also another good WR in Jennings to compete with.

So by your own rationale you have answered your own question - Jacoby is the better of the 2 because he has only 1 other "threat" on his team to steal his times targeted.

I'm pretty sure Junta was being sarcastic. Using examples of Housh, Boldin and Wayne to show how "bad" he can be should have been a hint.

 

[whodeywhodey]

Yes, I realize that. Just making my point as well.

 

[Gr00vus]

I prefer the Jim Jones kool-aid.

You wouldn't be here if you really did.

Hey man, I was there. I was one of the waiters, not one of the drinkers.

In that case, tis truly better to give than receive.

 

[NorrisB]

I prefer the Jim Jones kool-aid.

You wouldn't be here if you really did.

Hey man, I was there. I was one of the waiters, not one of the drinkers.

Put me on record as a waiter not a drinker.

 

[Woz]

Favre had been feeding James the ball in camp this year sorta like he did Jennings last year. If Favre has confidence in him, James will see plenty of looks.

 

[Gr00vus]

Favre had been feeding James the ball in camp this year sorta like he did Jennings last year. If Favre has confidence in him, James will see plenty of looks.

Also if the GB running game sucks as hard as it looks like it will, there'll be plenty of targets to go around for the receivers - even WR 3 if that's where James Jones ends up.

 

[Wilbur Wood]

Just picked James Jones in Rd 16 of a redraft. Jacoby went to 2 picks later. Made a nice $$ side bet with that owner as to which JJ will have the most aggregate fantasy points this year.

 

[Team Tosh]

So far I've only seen James play. He does have a natural ability to catch the ball at its highest point and catches everything with his hands. He's very smooth and finds room in space. I think James is truly something special - not taking anything away from Jacoby. I'd take a flier on either one.

 

[joffer]

Jacoby with 3 catches on the opening drive including the TD.

 

[BoneYardDog]

Jacoby Jones and it is not even close...

He has "it" and is playing in a very good offense...

 

[greedygoat]

Jacoby with 3 catches on the opening drive including the TD.

Not just a TD, but a 3 yard REDZONE TD. Apparently he is a good redzone target despite what some posters have stated in this thread.

 

[Sleeper 43]

I think Jacoby provides more of a homerun threat (30+ yards plays) but James Jones is a grinder and is always open.

As of what we know now, I think its so close that it defaults to which team will be playing from behind more and which team will need to pass more in order to produce points.

I'm going with my sleeper pick since early May, ........ James Jones

 

[moderated]

Jacoby Jones and it is not even close...He has "it" and is playing in a very good offense...

Unless Jacoby Jones is at CJ/Fitz level it's close.Both jones's look very very good, to say it's not close one way or the other is ridiculous.

 

[moderated]

Jacoby with 3 catches on the opening drive including the TD.

Not just a TD, but a 3 yard REDZONE TD. Apparently he is a good redzone target despite what some posters have stated in this thread.

One play doesn't all of a sudden make him a great redzone target. Maybe he'll develop into one, but his intermediate/short route running was one of his major knocks coming into the league.He looks great, but let's not go making snap judgments off one TD.

 

[Vanter]

Jacoby with 3 catches on the opening drive including the TD.

Not just a TD, but a 3 yard REDZONE TD. Apparently he is a good redzone target despite what some posters have stated in this thread.

One play doesn't all of a sudden make him a great redzone target. Maybe he'll develop into one, but his intermediate/short route running was one of his major knocks coming into the league.He looks great, but let's not go making snap judgments off one TD.

Don't forget about the small hands concern.