Jamaal Charles in KC (1 Viewer)

[hooter311]

What better way to motivate him?

Motivation isn't about head games. Most of the time simply being appreciated and rewarded for performance does the trick. And nothing says we appreciate your talents and feel you're a key to our success like bringing in an inferior player and giving him your job.

This isn't about head games, this is about bringing in arguably the hardest working back in the league to provide insurance and set an example.

Isn't insurance, by definition, a backup plan? You don't want to use health insurance, but it's there if you get sick. You don't want to use your car insurance, but it's there if you get in an accident. At this point, Jones is starting. I don't think a player can be the starter and insurance.

Insurance is to protect an asset, at this point Charles is most definitely a KC asset. If they didn't add a player of Jones' caliber, and Charles was left more injury prone due to a larger than necessary work load, then what?

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

What better way to motivate him?

Motivation isn't about head games. Most of the time simply being appreciated and rewarded for performance does the trick. And nothing says we appreciate your talents and feel you're a key to our success like bringing in an inferior player and giving him your job.

This isn't about head games, this is about bringing in arguably the hardest working back in the league to provide insurance and set an example.

Isn't insurance, by definition, a backup plan? You don't want to use health insurance, but it's there if you get sick. You don't want to use your car insurance, but it's there if you get in an accident. At this point, Jones is starting. I don't think a player can be the starter and insurance.

Insurance is to protect an asset, at this point Charles is most definitely a KC asset. If they didn't add a player of Jones' caliber, and Charles was left more injury prone due to a larger than necessary work load, then what?

Better just sit Charles entirely. That way he's fully insured against being hurt.

 

[rizzler]

if KC is fine living by 3ypc... start Jones all day, every day.

if they want a chance to win and a chance to go end zone every play... well, you know who to start.

but hey, I dont't have the deep, grueling and articluate football background Haley does.

 

[latrops]

I recommend reading and re-reading the below post as many times as it takes to sink in...

If you remove the veil of fantasy football this isn't hard to understand:KC/Haley liked what they saw out Charles last year, but can't ignore the fact that he has never taken the pounding that being a RB1 for a full season inflicts. There is the possibility that they simply don't think his slight frame could handle anywhere near 250 carries.They brought in a veteran back who they know can withstand the pounding and get tough yards when needed. This was a great signing for their team and added a missing dimension to their backfield that they knew they would be in trouble without.The back they brought in has been a productive lead back for the last 5 years in this league, and is a warrior in terms of work ethic and a leader. They knew this would add an element of competition in camp that would raise the effort they get from all their backs.So now in camp the expected is happening: the veteran workhorse leader is performing like a veteran workhorse leader and producing the expected competition and raised effort in the backfield. The most likely scenario is that the KC backfield is a mixed bag this year, with Jones starting and taking the up-the-middle and short-yardage carries (yes, that means Goal line). They will use Charles on stretch plays, end arounds, and passing plays, assuming he can block (no reason to think he can't as far as I know). McCluster will also be worked in on similar plays and run some wildcat like he did at Ole Miss (probably a big reason why they drafted him).Bottom line is the addition and regular use of Thomas Jones gives the Chiefs a much more balanced and potentially more effective running game. They have Jones who can take the pounding and get tough yards, who they can run into the dirt if needed, and Charles who adds a completely different element in terms of big-play ability, who they can be careful with because of Jones. And they will use both.It may be a headache for fantasy but it makes perfect sense in real football, and it will only be a headache for those who cling to their own projections and analysis and refuse to acknowledge the obvious: both backs will get theirs, but neither will be a RB1 option on most teams. Both are probably RB2 optiions, with Charles having a drastically higher ceiling, and Jones having a higher floor.

I appreciate and respect this, but I don't necessarily agree with it. Regardless of what Jones has done in the past, I have to look at this season on this team. This is not the 2009 Jets, this is the 2010 Chiefs. Disagree with my conclusions, that is fine, but I anticipate Jones struggling to run effectively on this team. I think opposing defensive coordinators hope Jones is on the field as much as possible. He is not a bad rb, but there are reasons Jones was as effective as he was last year, and many of those reasons don't exist this season in KC. Jones ran a lot last season behind a very good offensive line. He had the best defense in the NFL keeping his team competitive, offensive gameplans were designed in part to protect the rookie qb, his competition for carries was an unproven rookie rb who did, eventually, take over. Understand, I'm not suggesting that Jones won't be used. He should get most of the goal line and short yardage work. There are legitimate concerns over Charles' ability to handle a heavy workload, so Jones has a significant role. Last season, Charles/Johnson combined for 320 carries. If the Chiefs are a little better this year, I think it is reasonable for the 2 lead backs to combine for 350. Charles should get 200 and Jones should get 150. Regardless of who is called the starter, I just don't think Jones can average much more than 3.5 ypc on this team. Charles should average around a yard per carry more than Jones, so Haley would have to be a moron to give Jones more carries. Charles also should be good for 50ish receptions.While I don't think it really matters who is called the starter in terms how the workload is ultimately distributed, I do question Haley in how he has handled the situation. Charles was the 2nd half MVP last season and I'm not aware of anything he has done to justify the apparent slight he has received. I'm fine with Haley making it clear to Charles that nothing is guaranteed and that he has to continue to work and earn what he gets. I'm not so thrilled with Haley making that point by awarding Jones with something he hasn't earned any moreso than Charles. That part of it seems a bit hypocritical. It's jut not possible for Jones to have proven more in 1 month of practice and preseason games than Charles proved over the 2nd half of last season.

 

[kremenull]

I recommend reading and re-reading the below post as many times as it takes to sink in...

If you remove the veil of fantasy football this isn't hard to understand:KC/Haley liked what they saw out Charles last year, but can't ignore the fact that he has never taken the pounding that being a RB1 for a full season inflicts. There is the possibility that they simply don't think his slight frame could handle anywhere near 250 carries.They brought in a veteran back who they know can withstand the pounding and get tough yards when needed. This was a great signing for their team and added a missing dimension to their backfield that they knew they would be in trouble without.The back they brought in has been a productive lead back for the last 5 years in this league, and is a warrior in terms of work ethic and a leader. They knew this would add an element of competition in camp that would raise the effort they get from all their backs.So now in camp the expected is happening: the veteran workhorse leader is performing like a veteran workhorse leader and producing the expected competition and raised effort in the backfield. The most likely scenario is that the KC backfield is a mixed bag this year, with Jones starting and taking the up-the-middle and short-yardage carries (yes, that means Goal line). They will use Charles on stretch plays, end arounds, and passing plays, assuming he can block (no reason to think he can't as far as I know). McCluster will also be worked in on similar plays and run some wildcat like he did at Ole Miss (probably a big reason why they drafted him).Bottom line is the addition and regular use of Thomas Jones gives the Chiefs a much more balanced and potentially more effective running game. They have Jones who can take the pounding and get tough yards, who they can run into the dirt if needed, and Charles who adds a completely different element in terms of big-play ability, who they can be careful with because of Jones. And they will use both.It may be a headache for fantasy but it makes perfect sense in real football, and it will only be a headache for those who cling to their own projections and analysis and refuse to acknowledge the obvious: both backs will get theirs, but neither will be a RB1 option on most teams. Both are probably RB2 optiions, with Charles having a drastically higher ceiling, and Jones having a higher floor.

I appreciate and respect this, but I don't necessarily agree with it. Regardless of what Jones has done in the past, I have to look at this season on this team. This is not the 2009 Jets, this is the 2010 Chiefs. Disagree with my conclusions, that is fine, but I anticipate Jones struggling to run effectively on this team. I think opposing defensive coordinators hope Jones is on the field as much as possible. He is not a bad rb, but there are reasons Jones was as effective as he was last year, and many of those reasons don't exist this season in KC. Jones ran a lot last season behind a very good offensive line. He had the best defense in the NFL keeping his team competitive, offensive gameplans were designed in part to protect the rookie qb, his competition for carries was an unproven rookie rb who did, eventually, take over. Understand, I'm not suggesting that Jones won't be used. He should get most of the goal line and short yardage work. There are legitimate concerns over Charles' ability to handle a heavy workload, so Jones has a significant role. Last season, Charles/Johnson combined for 320 carries. If the Chiefs are a little better this year, I think it is reasonable for the 2 lead backs to combine for 350. Charles should get 200 and Jones should get 150. Regardless of who is called the starter, I just don't think Jones can average much more than 3.5 ypc on this team. Charles should average around a yard per carry more than Jones, so Haley would have to be a moron to give Jones more carries. Charles also should be good for 50ish receptions.While I don't think it really matters who is called the starter in terms how the workload is ultimately distributed, I do question Haley in how he has handled the situation. Charles was the 2nd half MVP last season and I'm not aware of anything he has done to justify the apparent slight he has received. I'm fine with Haley making it clear to Charles that nothing is guaranteed and that he has to continue to work and earn what he gets. I'm not so thrilled with Haley making that point by awarding Jones with something he hasn't earned any moreso than Charles. That part of it seems a bit hypocritical. It's jut not possible for Jones to have proven more in 1 month of practice and preseason games than Charles proved over the 2nd half of last season.

Outstanding, spot-on response! This is pretty apparent to me, but others seem to want to close their eyes to the fact that Charles is by far the superior player here, and the number of touches over the course of the season will prove this point.

 

[bostonfred]

I have a few problems with the Charles hype this year:

- He has to compete with two very different players for carries, which caps his upside.

- Charles was not this highly regarded until his second half explosion. One of the arguments for Larry Johnson last year was that he had so little competition for carries. The comparisons to players like Chris Johnson seem a little premature.

- I watched the video highlight reel of Charles and was surprised how almost every big play was an unconventional play of some sort. It looks like those contributed in a big way to his impressive YPC. I don't think that scales well across a full season of carries - I would expect a big dropoff in YPC over a full season's workload.

- On that note, a lot of those tricky plays will go to McCluster this year.

- Coaches don't like the "home run threat on every down" as much as fans do. They like first downs. The Chiefs, for lack of a better description, seem to be built for third and short. They are most certainly not built for third and long.

- Yes, he faces a soft schedule again this year. The difference is that the sucky teams he played last year were in the back half of their sucky seasons. The sucky teams he faces this year will be in the still-have-hope part of their seasons. That makes a huge difference, IMO.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

"Jamaal was running closer to where we want him," explained Haley.

What a nitwit. Guy busts for 6ypc in a half season of actual NFL games, blows up for 9+ypc in the first preseason game, but wasn't running close to where they wanted him until after the coach satisfied his inner Cartman. It's all about Haley after all.

 

[Routilla]

"Jamaal was running closer to where we want him," explained Haley.

What a nitwit. Guy busts for 6ypc in a half season of actual NFL games, blows up for 9+ypc in the first preseason game, but wasn't running close to where they wanted him until after the coach satisfied his inner Cartman. It's all about Haley after all.

I agree. Haley is not looking too sharp right now.I hope he's just working the kinks out of his own game just like the players. Haley should be ready for week 1 with a good chance of starting the more explosive RB, right?

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Remember, Haley was the WR coach with the Cowboys when TO was there, and TO refused to speak to him.

I figured that was just TO being TO, but now we realize there was more to it than that.

 

[massraider]

I have a few problems with the Charles hype this year:- He has to compete with two very different players for carries, which caps his upside.

I don't think McCluster is going to be getting enough carries to say that he's eating into his carries. That, to me, is like saying Percy Harvin cuts into ADP's carries. But I do agree he won't be getting 300 carries.

- Charles was not this highly regarded until his second half explosion. One of the arguments for Larry Johnson last year was that he had so little competition for carries. The comparisons to players like Chris Johnson seem a little premature.

That doesn't mean anything, other than a lot of people were wrong. Sincerely, people need to forget what they thought last summer, and look at what happened when the team put him on the field.

- I watched the video highlight reel of Charles and was surprised how almost every big play was an unconventional play of some sort. It looks like those contributed in a big way to his impressive YPC. I don't think that scales well across a full season of carries - I would expect a big dropoff in YPC over a full season's workload.

I would expect his YPC to drop, but not that much. And Charles is definitely not just a gimmick player. He has good vision, that people are overlooking.

- On that note, a lot of those tricky plays will go to McCluster this year.

Not only is this way too early to say, but there's nothing to back this up. Is anyone watching preseason games?? McCluster has been a slot WR, and they have moved him around, but what he has done has rarely crossed over to what Charles does. You know whose looks McCluster is gonna steal? Cris Chambers.

- Coaches don't like the "home run threat on every down" as much as fans do. They like first downs. The Chiefs, for lack of a better description, seem to be built for third and short. They are most certainly not built for third and long.

One reason I think Charles will do well this year, especially in PPR, is that I think Cassel and the Chiefs have zero confidence in his ability to throw the ball downfield. I think Bowe will get his looks, and they will use a ball-control passing attack a lot, with a lot of short stuff to Charles (and McCluster). Charles' abilities in the passing game are a big bonus, and the main reason I am not too concerned about T. Jones. Charles can score fantasy points with only 10 carries.