Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Jamaal Charles Thread: Hall of Famer? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
see that was the issue...not whether or not he was hurt ...of course he was ...but you immediately proclaimed it a HAS which is really bad. So ya ...its kind of funny that he comes in and runs for another td juking a defender out of his shoes while doing it. If you`re going to claim its a HAS and its not should just say ''i was wrong'' not keep going into the next day reposting the conversation...it just looks silly.Just some sarcasm from last nights internet wise guys.
Just the term “high ankle sprain” is enough to grab the attention of, if not frighten, the toughest athletes. Even if you're not exactly sure what's involved, you probably know that it's an injury that could keep you out of action for months. And you're right. High ankle sprains are much less common than the garden variety low ankle sprain, which can be serious enough, but they're hard to treat and can cause long-term problems.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
imagine what he could do on a team like GB or Denver...mind boggling...they need to get some real WR`s in KC ...high priority...and better QB would be nice
jurb26
Footballguy
Yet you continue to be wrong... I said "likely a HAS." I never proclaimed anything. It only looks silly to you now because you were wrong.see that was the issue...not whether or not he was hurt ...of course he was ...but you immediately proclaimed it a HAS which is really bad. So ya ...its kind of funny that he comes in and runs for another td juking a defender out of his shoes while doing it. If you`re going to claim its a HAS and its not should just say ''i was wrong'' not keep going into the next day reposting the conversation...it just looks silly.Just some sarcasm from last nights internet wise guys.
Just the term “high ankle sprain” is enough to grab the attention of, if not frighten, the toughest athletes. Even if you're not exactly sure what's involved, you probably know that it's an injury that could keep you out of action for months. And you're right. High ankle sprains are much less common than the garden variety low ankle sprain, which can be serious enough, but they're hard to treat and can cause long-term problems.
Carry on.
zamboni
Footballguy
Forward it to andy.reid@kcchiefs.com
Last edited by a moderator:
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Fuggin' Reid is like an ex-wife that won't get out if my life and keeps finding ways to make me miserable. God I love Charles! Third time I've had him since 2010 in at least one league. But man am I sick of having to read about the same ###### press conferences that I had to watch for 14 friggin years!
OnTheReg
Footballguy
his usage really is mind boggling. smith was accurate yeah on sunday but at one point (not sure if the game finished this way) his yards per throw were less than what charles' yard's per rush were. i truly can't believe reid is as bad as he is. from passing on countless first downs, to not giving it to charles on 3rd and 1, it's so frustrating.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Is this the general consensus right now? Because less than 24 months ago he was considered to be NFL royalty, above criticism and an unquestioned NFL genius. The likes of which would never grace an NFL sideline again.
Well, that's what the national media shoved down Eagles fan's throat anyway. After 14 years, we were being "impatient".
Last edited by a moderator:
LawFitz
Footballguy
Or this could be a case of correlation =/= causation.
For example, (not saying it's the case here, but just to convey the point), if the Chiefs are considerably behind in games, JC is less likely to get 10 carries. In such cases, which is the more likely cause for the losses?... That he didn't get 10 carries or that they were behind on the scoreboard?
I'll let you and others dig deeper to see if there's any actual application of the hypothetical above to the Chiefs record, but that's one way where it might not be "that easy."
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Other than the game he left injured, he's getting ~19 touches per game (i.e about 300 for a full season). Not sure what you guys are looking for.
Shutout
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
These are two different things. He was rightfully highly praised for the job he did as a real life coach last year with the Chiefs. He is rightfully highly criticzed for the job he is doing with Jamaal Charles as it translates into fantasy.
jurb26
Footballguy
Charles was the #1 RB in fantasy last year in PPG and is #5 this in PPG, while basically missing an entire game that still hits his average because he started in it. Things of course could always be better, but I don't really get why people think Reid has negatively impacted Charles from a fantasy perspective. He's basically been one of the most dominant players in all of fantasy with Reid as a coach.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
That's why I'm curious. I've seen a lot of negative comments from KC fans regarding Reid's play calling. And yes, last year was great, but after a 9-0 start they finished 2-6. 7-6 this year with loses to Tenn & Oakland and likely to miss the playoffs. Plus he traded 2-2nd round picks for a QB who can't throw to his WRs.
and this is on a team that runs the fewest plays in the league. in games he hasnt left early, or not played, hes been involved in 218 (171 carries and 47 targets) out of 601 plays for about 36%. seems that hes plenty involved.
zamboni
Footballguy
Very good point. While it has seemed on occasion (e.g, the Raiders game a few Thursday nights ago) that the offense has gone long stretches with limited use of Chales, the lackluster offense has really limited such opportunities. When you go 13 weeks without a WR touchdown, that says a lot. It's amazing that Charles has done as well as he has with that putrid passing game.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Now questionable. Awesome.
towney
Footballguy
zamboni
Footballguy
Only because he didn't practice today. They don't make official designations until Friday, but it's certainly looking up in the air right now. Have to see if he gets work in the next few days.
Shutout
Footballguy
I get what you are saying but the difference here is "degrees".
You are looking at a firm number and justify your position. "He was #1, he is currently #5..not bad."
Others are looking at it and seeing missed opportunity and criticizing. "He is #5 but could be #1 by a mile."
The people who are criticizing are your business tyrants; the guys that go into some business that says "we are happy, we are number 3 in the industry with a 10% profit margin" and the business tyrant says "Ok, now let me show you how you become #1 in the industry by a mile with a 26% profit margin."
joffer
Footballguy
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Insein
Footballguy
What really boggles the mind though is his lack of use in the passing game. Last year he had 70 catches for nearly 700 yards and 7 TDs. This year he has 32 catches for 234 yds and 5 TDs. If the Chiefs are struggling through the air and Smith can't throw it deep, why not get Charles more involved there?
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Picked up KDavis off the waiver wire just in case...
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Charles has been fantastic all year, but as long as we have a clear status on Sunday I'm comfortable rolling with Knile Davis. He's a ver capable backup and assured of getting the same volume.
IOW I'm worried about other pieces of my lineup but figure RB (we only start 1) won't be one of them.
IOW I'm worried about other pieces of my lineup but figure RB (we only start 1) won't be one of them.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
the problem is WHEN he uses him and when he does not...it seems he doesn't use him in obvious situations where you would use charles skill set...Reid is so intent on outsmarting the opposition he ends up only outsmarting himself
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Like when he passes 39 times and runs it 17 in a game they were leading for 56.5 minutes?BustedKnuckles said:
And 4 of those runs were 3 Smith scrambles and a kneel down. So Reid actually called 42 pass plays and 13 running plays (plus a kneel) in a game they lead throughout. Till it mattered.
Last edited by a moderator:
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
yeah, one of the reasons I liked JC was his previous usage in the passing game. Andy Reid was brilliant getting Westbrook involved in his passing game and JC was used heavily in it last year. This year, not so much. Could it be game script? Maybe, but when they are trailing, JC is basically a non-factor at times it seems. I honestly was expecting production like Leveon Bell is seeing in the passing game. Yes I am being greedy.
ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
Maybe he isn't used more because he keeps getting hurt?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
In the last two years, Reid is 18-11 with no WRs and a bottom-half QB, for a team that was a combined 9-23 the two years before he got there.
And Charles has touched the ball an average of about 20 times when he started and finished the game.
Again, no idea what you guys are complaining about.
And Charles has touched the ball an average of about 20 times when he started and finished the game.
Again, no idea what you guys are complaining about.
joffer
Footballguy
joffer said:
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Yes, he's 18-11, but started 9-0 so since then he's 9-11 (9-12 if you count a historically bad playoff loss). The bottom half QB was hand-picked by Reid, who gave up 2-2nd round picks to get him. Reid's also had 2 off seasons now to address his WRs. And yes,they were 9-23 the 2 years prior to Reid, but he did inherit 5 pro-bowlers and the #1 overall pick in the '13 draft.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
I play the Charles owner this week, so I considered it a preemptive move.Raider Nation said:
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
This.
Charles had 329 touches last year.
He is averaging just over 20 touches per game this year so over 16 games that would put him at 324 touches.
Charles has already missed a game this year, he is not practicing this week. He tore up his knee in 2011. Charles is the smallest featured back in the NFL and he can handle a heavy workload which is exactly what he is getting for a sub 200 lb guy.
The problem with the Chiefs happens to be that they have one of the worst WR's units in the entire NFL by a pretty good margin. It has to be embarrassing to trot that out each week. Alex Smith is not elite, but he is definitely better than average. They need to get him some weapons. The added weapons will only help Charles as well. Teams have been keying in on the screen game and swing passes etc as they don't have to worry about that sad group of WR's they face each week.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Andy Reid Limiting Chiefs by Relying More on Scheme Than Talent
The Arrowhead faithful are fully aware of the difference coaching can make. A talented Kansas City Chiefs team only won two games in 2012, but they were able to turn it around in 2013 under the leadership of head coach Andy Reid.
Reid’s schemes have also been a huge part of the turnaround in Kansas City over the past two seasons, but he also has a well-earned reputation for forgetting to use his best players. The only reasonable explanation is that Reid can come to rely too much on his own abilities and not enough on the talent at his disposal. It’s happened so much in 2014 that it’s limiting his team.
It makes sense to Reid because the scheme is something he can control. Reid can decide what players to use, what plays are called and if everyone does everything right there will usually be a positive result. Reid also wields a sizeable influence over quarterback Alex Smith, such as how he might change or adjust plays and whom he should target in certain situations.
There’s nothing particularly wrong with the way Reid operates, but scheme can only take a team so far. When his players are physically or mentally unable to do the things they need to do to make Reid’s schemes a success, Reid is the one that needs to be able to adjust.
At some point, Reid has to expect his star players to make a play for him. Reid can scheme to get running back Jamaal Charles in space, but it’s not as if Reid can design a play where Charles jukes five defenders and breaks two tackles.
Which brings us to Charles, the team’s best player and a player fans and media have criticized Reid for underutilizing. Charles is one of just five NFL players with over 3,000 yards from scrimmage over the last two seasons, but he’s averaging just 19.7 touches per game—more than two fewer carries than the other four running backs.
Charles makes up for the lack of touches with a ridiculous 5.8 yards per touch, but he’s still behind all but LeSean McCoy in yards per game. McCoy is also the only other back to have a slight downward trend in usage, but that makes sense because Darren Sproles is siphoning off a few opportunities.
McCoy’s downward usage trend also isn’t nearly as steep as Charles’ usage trend. Some game-to-game variance in usage is expected, but over the course of two seasons, an extremely productive player like Charles shouldn’t be seeing an overall decrease in work.
The notion that Charles is more productive because of a lighter workload also seems unfounded. Only one of the seven running backs other than Charles since the start of 2013 with fewer than 600 touches and more than 400 touches has been able to match those with 600-plus touches in yards per carry.
The fact that Charles has been able to produce at the clip he has over 533 touches suggests that a few more shouldn’t adversely affect his average. The truth is that Reid underutilizes Charles on average and the problem is getting worse.
<snip>
It’s time for Reid to let his talent shine on offense and defense. More opportunities for his best offensive weapons and more rest and a bigger impact for his top defensive weapons could do the Chiefs wonders. The Chiefs are more than capable of winning their final three games and making it back to the postseason, but only if Reid can get out of his own way.
The Arrowhead faithful are fully aware of the difference coaching can make. A talented Kansas City Chiefs team only won two games in 2012, but they were able to turn it around in 2013 under the leadership of head coach Andy Reid.
Reid’s schemes have also been a huge part of the turnaround in Kansas City over the past two seasons, but he also has a well-earned reputation for forgetting to use his best players. The only reasonable explanation is that Reid can come to rely too much on his own abilities and not enough on the talent at his disposal. It’s happened so much in 2014 that it’s limiting his team.
It makes sense to Reid because the scheme is something he can control. Reid can decide what players to use, what plays are called and if everyone does everything right there will usually be a positive result. Reid also wields a sizeable influence over quarterback Alex Smith, such as how he might change or adjust plays and whom he should target in certain situations.
There’s nothing particularly wrong with the way Reid operates, but scheme can only take a team so far. When his players are physically or mentally unable to do the things they need to do to make Reid’s schemes a success, Reid is the one that needs to be able to adjust.
At some point, Reid has to expect his star players to make a play for him. Reid can scheme to get running back Jamaal Charles in space, but it’s not as if Reid can design a play where Charles jukes five defenders and breaks two tackles.
Which brings us to Charles, the team’s best player and a player fans and media have criticized Reid for underutilizing. Charles is one of just five NFL players with over 3,000 yards from scrimmage over the last two seasons, but he’s averaging just 19.7 touches per game—more than two fewer carries than the other four running backs.
Charles makes up for the lack of touches with a ridiculous 5.8 yards per touch, but he’s still behind all but LeSean McCoy in yards per game. McCoy is also the only other back to have a slight downward trend in usage, but that makes sense because Darren Sproles is siphoning off a few opportunities.
McCoy’s downward usage trend also isn’t nearly as steep as Charles’ usage trend. Some game-to-game variance in usage is expected, but over the course of two seasons, an extremely productive player like Charles shouldn’t be seeing an overall decrease in work.
The notion that Charles is more productive because of a lighter workload also seems unfounded. Only one of the seven running backs other than Charles since the start of 2013 with fewer than 600 touches and more than 400 touches has been able to match those with 600-plus touches in yards per carry.
The fact that Charles has been able to produce at the clip he has over 533 touches suggests that a few more shouldn’t adversely affect his average. The truth is that Reid underutilizes Charles on average and the problem is getting worse.
<snip>
It’s time for Reid to let his talent shine on offense and defense. More opportunities for his best offensive weapons and more rest and a bigger impact for his top defensive weapons could do the Chiefs wonders. The Chiefs are more than capable of winning their final three games and making it back to the postseason, but only if Reid can get out of his own way.
Insein
Footballguy
I actually do think we're due for the Andy overreaction game. Thought it'd be last week but this week its now or never.
What I mean by overreaction is that he'll give Charles way more touches than he's had all year just to prove he's not avoiding or forgetting about him.
2008 Weeks 10 & 11 Brian Westbrook had 14 carries each week for 60 and 39 yards, no tds. Both losses. Andy was heavily criticized that week and Westbrook got 22 carries for 110-2 the next week in a blowout win. Week 13 he got 33 carries for 131-1 plus 6 catches for 72-1.
2011 Weeks 4 & 5 Lesean McCoy had 9-18 and 11-80. Both losses. Weeks 6 & 7 McCoy had 28-126-1 and 30-185-2.
So there is hope.
What I mean by overreaction is that he'll give Charles way more touches than he's had all year just to prove he's not avoiding or forgetting about him.
2008 Weeks 10 & 11 Brian Westbrook had 14 carries each week for 60 and 39 yards, no tds. Both losses. Andy was heavily criticized that week and Westbrook got 22 carries for 110-2 the next week in a blowout win. Week 13 he got 33 carries for 131-1 plus 6 catches for 72-1.
2011 Weeks 4 & 5 Lesean McCoy had 9-18 and 11-80. Both losses. Weeks 6 & 7 McCoy had 28-126-1 and 30-185-2.
So there is hope.
Last edited by a moderator:
Shutout
Footballguy
That's what I'm looking at when I said my above post. This thing just reeks of swinging the pendulum completely opposite.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
You bitter Eagles fans are a hoot.
"Reid Winning Despite Lack of Talent via Schemes"
Similar threads
- Poll
