JaMarcus Russell vs. Brady Quinn (1 Viewer)

[Red Apples]

Leaf or Manning?

Do we really need to go any further than last year?

These guys are Young and Leinart.

 

[matt jones]

I really like JeMarcus Russel, not high on Brady Quinn. For some reason nothing Brady Quinn does wows me. For the numbers he put up this season they always came against weak teams, whenever he had to play someone decent he played poorly. JeMarcus Russell has about as much upside as I've ever saw and played well against quality opposition. If I was the Raiders I'd draft him, and definitely would sit him a year and let him learn while some veteran gets crushed all season long. As bad as the Raiders are now, they could be an elite team in a season or two. Their defense is fantastic, they have some weapons on offense. Just need to get that O-line fixed and get a few pieces to go with Russel. As tempting as Calvin Johnson is, you have to go with JeMarcus Russel. I wonder who takes Quinn, I bet Detroit or Cleveland. Hope he does well, but I just can't shake that gut feeling that he's going to be really really bad.

 

[The Finist]

Dont worry Dame lovers. Bloom isnt always right. who cares?

 

[trader jake]

From PFT:

It's highly unlikely that LSU quarterback JaMarcus Russell will drop out of the upper reaches of the NFL draft. But some league insiders regard Russell as a guy who should be taken in the third round of the draft.Prior to the Sugar Bowl, Russell wasn't widely regarded as a top-five pick. Since shredding the Irish, however, most have presumed that Russell should be the first guy off of the board.As we've previously written, some scouts regarding Russell as another Byron Leftwich: Big arm, limited mobility.But as we've seen time and again, even if 31 teams don't view a guy as a first-rounder, all it takes is one to say "yes".

Glad to read I'm not the only one who feels this way about Russell.

 

[JohnnyU]

I really like JeMarcus Russel, not high on Brady Quinn. For some reason nothing Brady Quinn does wows me. For the numbers he put up this season they always came against weak teams, whenever he had to play someone decent he played poorly. JeMarcus Russell has about as much upside as I've ever saw and played well against quality opposition. If I was the Raiders I'd draft him, and definitely would sit him a year and let him learn while some veteran gets crushed all season long. As bad as the Raiders are now, they could be an elite team in a season or two. Their defense is fantastic, they have some weapons on offense. Just need to get that O-line fixed and get a few pieces to go with Russel. As tempting as Calvin Johnson is, you have to go with JeMarcus Russel. I wonder who takes Quinn, I bet Detroit or Cleveland. Hope he does well, but I just can't shake that gut feeling that he's going to be really really bad.

I must admit I don't know much about Russell except his measurables and from watching a couple of games, and what I read about him. Tell me what he accomplished before beating up on a weak ND defense? His 2006 season did look pretty good however. Over 3100 yds, 67.8% comp, 28 td / 8 ints

 

[perry147]

I think they both have talent and ALOT depends on where they go and the timeframe they are thrown into the fire. I'm in the camp that it serves a team well to be patient and invest in the player long term if your going to spend a 1st round pick on a qb you should keep him out that first season let him get acquainted with the speed of the NFL, Playbook, and general life in the NFL.Russell is getting alot of help from Culpepper's success, however his size and arm strength is beyond incredible. You can't teach the 75 yard flip of wrist bomb. You get a qb that can take a shot is some what mobile right now(not Vince or even Troy) his weight is a concern and needs to be watched. I do think you can keep a good eye on the weight issue and as long as he's ready by camp then eat that Big Mac and know you are going to work every bit of it off. I think the SEC is the best conference right now and that should speak to his not playing any solid defense question in my book he's played the best teams around(pains me to say that) If Oakland selects him and I don't think they will I hope they are patient and don't allow him to get shell shocked. I think alot of good QB's get shell shocked and never really recover and then again some do start well right away.Quinn is very ready and playing under Weiss has been a huge advantage. Notre Dame has done a pretty good job keeping Brady protected from outside influences and Brady seems more like the surgeon type QB.Quinn lacks the escapability of Marcus and the arm stregnth as well, but Brady has the leadership and is a better pocket passer IMO. Brady has the presence factor and that does mean something to me. Leinhart had it last season and Quinn is the qb that has it this season.You can pick guys out all day long Couch was very ready to till he landed in Cleveland and was drilled every Sunday(shell shocked) Smith was just a HUGE blunder by Cincy. Culpepper seemed to do well as a rookie. How much of that was Moss???? The bottom line is you really can't compare qb's in the past you have to look at your team and the best fit for your team now and 4- 5 years from now and then IMO you need to bring that player along slowly to get the most for your investment. I like Russell for immeditae or quicker results and Quinn better for the long term. You really can't go wrong with either and whoever get's Quinn late really is going to get a bargin.The second tier QB's are the ones to really talk about Stanton,Smith,Kolb, and Leak. There will be a no namer come out of this class.

I agree with everything stated above however; I am in the camp that the weight issue with Russell is going to be a large factor. In all other physical areas Russell > Quinn but I think Quinn is better prepared for the NFL. As I stated in my previous post the final most important factor will be which team selects them.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

To me the big difference is the defense that THEIR team possessed. Quinn was forced to pass...especially in the big games. Teams had the luxury of sitting back and waiting for the pass, and he had to play against nickel and dime defenses. Quinn has put together a great college career and is solid (although I don't believe Manning-like potential), while Russell had a great year and is riding the coattails of this season into the draft. He is a physical specimen, and hopefully does not have just that going for him. I don't really like the Young-Leinart comparison because Young had a complete college career and was a stud before the national championship season. I don't think Russell has that type of resume.

 

[Autumn Wind]

I read a lot that Russell is lazy and has poor work habits. Other than him showing up to camp overweight, is there documented proof of his laziness, or is it just one of those notions that seems to take hold among people?

 

[massraider]

From PFT:

It's highly unlikely that LSU quarterback JaMarcus Russell will drop out of the upper reaches of the NFL draft. But some league insiders regard Russell as a guy who should be taken in the third round of the draft.Prior to the Sugar Bowl, Russell wasn't widely regarded as a top-five pick. Since shredding the Irish, however, most have presumed that Russell should be the first guy off of the board.As we've previously written, some scouts regarding Russell as another Byron Leftwich: Big arm, limited mobility.But as we've seen time and again, even if 31 teams don't view a guy as a first-rounder, all it takes is one to say "yes".

Glad to read I'm not the only one who feels this way about Russell.

Limited mobility?PFT will be glad to see they aren't the only ones that have apparently never seen Russell play.

 

[wadegarrett]

Was just sent this and found it interesting...

Quinn and The Pressure Myth

The Rock Report

Sunday, February 18, 2007

Troy Smith can't handle pressure. In his first game facing real pressure, Troy Smith folded up like a lawn chair. He completed 4 of 14 passes against Florida with an Int and an untimely fumble. Smith didn't look great -- he didn't even look average -- he looked rattled and impotent. Troy Smith can't handle the pressure.

Brady Quinn, despite facing that type of pressure all year, never looked that discombobulated.

Peyton Manning can't handle pressure. Against the Ravens with their entire season on the line, Manning was pressured into a 15 of 30 game with no TDs and two Ints. It wasn't the first time Manning's looked average or worse in the face of a tough defense. Manning, obviously, can't handle the pressure.

I like Russell a lot, but as FunkDoctorSpock points out, when he was pressured -- not so good. Against Top 25 teams (LSU was 3-2): 83 completions 158 attempts 50.2% 1,086 yards 8 TDs 7 INTs. In LSU's two losses, Russell had 1 TD and 3 picks. Russell's benefited from a Vince Young effect, even though they have little in common.

The fact is that no quarterback can handle that type of constant pressure. So when pundits talk about Quinn's ability to handle pressure, that argument needs a serious perspective shake.

Quinn was sacked more than twice as much as John David Booty, JaMarcus Russell and Troy Smith, yet had a better TD/Int ratio than any of them -- and note that Quinn had some very untimely drops of good passes that could have changed big games.

Pundits point to the 3 int. Michigan game as proof of Quinn's lack of composure. But look closer. His first interception was a strike that bounced off the shoulder of Carlson. His second one happened after his arm was hit. This third one was a forced pass after Notre Dame was already far behind. Those, by the way, account for three of the ONLY SEVEN interceptions Quinn has thrown all year -- the lowest interception ratio per attempt of any quaterback who's thrown as much as he has -- and that's while being sacked twice as much.

The fact is that Quinn has performed better than most top quarterbacks under more pressure, he's just had a heck of a lot more of it to deal with. And no quarterback performs well under constant pressure. No quarterback.

The reason Quinn was on the run so much is that ND had no credible rushing game ( 72nd in the country) and had a defense that gave other defenses a lot of time to rest. It's not like Quinn isn't mobile (he has much better feet than Russell for instance) and when he ran, he ran very well. I would have loved to see Charlie use him more in that capacity -- but I also understand that we couldn't afford to have him injured. Can he throw downfield with accuracy? He actually threw some of his best downfield balls of the year against USC -- his strike to Carlson was as good a throw as you will see in college football.

I've heard some talk about Russell's downfield balloons in the Notre Dame game as some sort proof that he has better downfield accuracy and outplayed Quinn. If you have a tape (or DVR,) watch those passes... no accuracy required. His receivers were running free. Russell outplayed Quinn only in the context that his entire team outplayed Notre Dame's. If you switched the quarterbacks in that game, I don't think there are many who think that Russell would have still outplayed Quinn. But it was a naysayers delight. Again, I think Russell is a talent, but the simpleton heads up comparison made by most sportscasters is at a base level just stupid and being more generous very misleading.

Quinn didn't have great games this year against very good teams, but he never had and outright bust of a game like Troy Smith did against Florida -- that was folding under pressure. Of course, Smith lost Ginn too, who may have really been the best player in the country last year. Which prompts the question: How good would Smith have been without Ginn all year? Quinn didn't have a Ginn to keep defenses off him all year and he didn't have a rushing game. When those things deserted Smith, he looked worse than Quinn ever did.

Now there are knocks against Quinn that are valid. He played in a lateral passing game and most of his completions were less than ten yards down the field. He also showed a little nervousness in some big games and wasn't able to turn those games on his own. He had some bad throws under pressure. But he we also the victim of some poor drops and many times when pressed, he flashed the ability to get the ball where it needs to be. In fact, where few quarterbacks could put the ball. That written, he hasn't done it consistently and his ability to do so is a questionmark. B

But I'll go further. I think Quinn possesses a little Favre in him, but he was forced to become more of a technician under Weis because this offense simply couldn't afford mistakes. Far from this offense making Quinn, in some ways I think it constrained him. He's much more of gunslinger than Notre Dame fans saw -- but his Weis training is perfect training for the NFL. Quinn generally played the best UNDER PRESSURE, against MSU, UCLA and Georgia Tech with the game hanging in the balance. I don't think it's a coincidence that he played some of his best ball when the offense was the most open and the tempo was forced.

If he goes to a team that will give him a freer reign, Quinn's real throwing personality will come out and could surprise a lot of pundits. There's no guarantee and it's just a hunch, but that's all that backs up the views of many who are piling on Quinn right now. And don't get me wrong, I don't want him on the Raiders. Nor do I want him to be a high draft choice on another crappy team. I love the Eagles scenario for instance.

Remember, it's always good TV to either build up or tear down anyone from Notre Dame and the media milks both sides of it, but their zeal to create a frenzy in either direction results in some very unfair characterizations and shallow analysis that is used to reinforce a point of view rather than to frame it.

As Scott Van Pelt said about the ESPN coverage, "We made it sound like the guy's going to be eating mac and cheese or something!"

Also note that Quinn, as he has his entire career, has handled both the positive and negative press very well.

No quarterback performs well under constant pressure, but neither does the media that covers the quarterbacks.

Link

 

[dparker713]

From PFT:

It's highly unlikely that LSU quarterback JaMarcus Russell will drop out of the upper reaches of the NFL draft. But some league insiders regard Russell as a guy who should be taken in the third round of the draft.Prior to the Sugar Bowl, Russell wasn't widely regarded as a top-five pick. Since shredding the Irish, however, most have presumed that Russell should be the first guy off of the board.As we've previously written, some scouts regarding Russell as another Byron Leftwich: Big arm, limited mobility.But as we've seen time and again, even if 31 teams don't view a guy as a first-rounder, all it takes is one to say "yes".

Glad to read I'm not the only one who feels this way about Russell.

Limited mobility?PFT will be glad to see they aren't the only ones that have apparently never seen Russell play.

I'd guess that Quinn would beat Russel in both the 40 and the shuttle drill. Russel is large and can move decently, but he's not all that mobile.

 

[massraider]

From PFT:

It's highly unlikely that LSU quarterback JaMarcus Russell will drop out of the upper reaches of the NFL draft. But some league insiders regard Russell as a guy who should be taken in the third round of the draft.Prior to the Sugar Bowl, Russell wasn't widely regarded as a top-five pick. Since shredding the Irish, however, most have presumed that Russell should be the first guy off of the board.As we've previously written, some scouts regarding Russell as another Byron Leftwich: Big arm, limited mobility.But as we've seen time and again, even if 31 teams don't view a guy as a first-rounder, all it takes is one to say "yes".

Glad to read I'm not the only one who feels this way about Russell.

Limited mobility?PFT will be glad to see they aren't the only ones that have apparently never seen Russell play.

I'd guess that Quinn would beat Russel in both the 40 and the shuttle drill. Russel is large and can move decently, but he's not all that mobile.

Yeah, but no one described him as a black Quinn.They're comparing him to Leftwich. Do you find their mobility remotely comparable? Russell can move, Leftwich is the most immoble QB since Bernie Kosar, and the post-Achilles Marino.

 

[dparker713]

From PFT:

It's highly unlikely that LSU quarterback JaMarcus Russell will drop out of the upper reaches of the NFL draft. But some league insiders regard Russell as a guy who should be taken in the third round of the draft.Prior to the Sugar Bowl, Russell wasn't widely regarded as a top-five pick. Since shredding the Irish, however, most have presumed that Russell should be the first guy off of the board.As we've previously written, some scouts regarding Russell as another Byron Leftwich: Big arm, limited mobility.But as we've seen time and again, even if 31 teams don't view a guy as a first-rounder, all it takes is one to say "yes".

Glad to read I'm not the only one who feels this way about Russell.

Limited mobility?PFT will be glad to see they aren't the only ones that have apparently never seen Russell play.

I'd guess that Quinn would beat Russel in both the 40 and the shuttle drill. Russel is large and can move decently, but he's not all that mobile.

Yeah, but no one described him as a black Quinn.They're comparing him to Leftwich. Do you find their mobility remotely comparable? Russell can move, Leftwich is the most immoble QB since Bernie Kosar, and the post-Achilles Marino.

Russel can move, when he's actually keeping his weight down. Russel has more of a chance to have Jared Lorenzen's mobility then Daunte Culpepper's.

 

[massraider]

From PFT:

It's highly unlikely that LSU quarterback JaMarcus Russell will drop out of the upper reaches of the NFL draft. But some league insiders regard Russell as a guy who should be taken in the third round of the draft.Prior to the Sugar Bowl, Russell wasn't widely regarded as a top-five pick. Since shredding the Irish, however, most have presumed that Russell should be the first guy off of the board.As we've previously written, some scouts regarding Russell as another Byron Leftwich: Big arm, limited mobility.But as we've seen time and again, even if 31 teams don't view a guy as a first-rounder, all it takes is one to say "yes".

Glad to read I'm not the only one who feels this way about Russell.

Limited mobility?PFT will be glad to see they aren't the only ones that have apparently never seen Russell play.

I'd guess that Quinn would beat Russel in both the 40 and the shuttle drill. Russel is large and can move decently, but he's not all that mobile.

Yeah, but no one described him as a black Quinn.They're comparing him to Leftwich. Do you find their mobility remotely comparable? Russell can move, Leftwich is the most immoble QB since Bernie Kosar, and the post-Achilles Marino.

Russel can move, when he's actually keeping his weight down. Russel has more of a chance to have Jared Lorenzen's mobility then Daunte Culpepper's.

Swell.What do either of those guys have to do with Leftwich?

 

[dparker713]

So the article exaggerated. But on the NFL level I just dont see Russel as a mobile QB. He shouldnt be as stiff as Leftwich, but he won't be able to create with his legs.

 

[massraider]

So the article exaggerated. But on the NFL level I just dont see Russel as a mobile QB. He shouldnt be as stiff as Leftwich, but he won't be able to create with his legs.

Calling him another Leftwich is the same as calling him another Cunningham.Neither one is accurate.You don't see Russell as a mobile QB on the NFL level? Well, hooray. Calling him another Leftwich implies that his lack of mobility is going to be a negative. It's a ridiculous comparison, and agreeing with the comparison is even sillier.Frankly, I see it as an indefensible positon.

 

[bmattd]

Russell is definitely not immobile. I watched him for 4 years at LSU and he was fantastic at getting out of the pocket and throwing on the run. He also had specifically designed run plays in the offense for him. Why would you design running plays for a QB that was immobile?? He's definitely no Vince Young, or even close. But he's plenty mobile enough to be a good NFL quarterback. His work habits at LSU have been questioned especially early in his career, but alot of that had to do with immaturity. He has improved in those aspects tremendously in the last 2 years. If LSU had opened up their offense and put the offense on Russell's shoulders this year (as many of the LSU fans wanted to do), Russell would've put up phenomenal numbers. Unfortunately, for most of the season we had extremely conservative playcalling, especially in the big games. About his weight, he was never over 260 at any time this year. He was always between 250-255, and if you look at his frame, the weight is not a hindrance. He has massively wide shoulders (unlike Jared Lorenzen who carries all of his weight in his belly) and is legitimately 6'6" tall. The comparisons to Lorenzen are ridiculous. For those of you who think he looked fat in the Sugar Bowl, you do realize he's wearing one of those rib-protector jackets underneath his jersey, right? The comparisons to Culpepper are pretty bad too, b/c Russell is not nearly as fast, and he's much more of a pocket passer than Culpepper. None of the above attributes mean that he's going to be better or worse than Quinn when it's all said and done, but if I were drafting a QB this year, it would be very hard to pass up Russell.

 

[Autumn Wind]

Russell is definitely not immobile. I watched him for 4 years at LSU and he was fantastic at getting out of the pocket and throwing on the run. He also had specifically designed run plays in the offense for him. Why would you design running plays for a QB that was immobile?? He's definitely no Vince Young, or even close. But he's plenty mobile enough to be a good NFL quarterback. His work habits at LSU have been questioned especially early in his career, but alot of that had to do with immaturity. He has improved in those aspects tremendously in the last 2 years. If LSU had opened up their offense and put the offense on Russell's shoulders this year (as many of the LSU fans wanted to do), Russell would've put up phenomenal numbers. Unfortunately, for most of the season we had extremely conservative playcalling, especially in the big games. About his weight, he was never over 260 at any time this year. He was always between 250-255, and if you look at his frame, the weight is not a hindrance. He has massively wide shoulders (unlike Jared Lorenzen who carries all of his weight in his belly) and is legitimately 6'6" tall. The comparisons to Lorenzen are ridiculous. For those of you who think he looked fat in the Sugar Bowl, you do realize he's wearing one of those rib-protector jackets underneath his jersey, right? The comparisons to Culpepper are pretty bad too, b/c Russell is not nearly as fast, and he's much more of a pocket passer than Culpepper. None of the above attributes mean that he's going to be better or worse than Quinn when it's all said and done, but if I were drafting a QB this year, it would be very hard to pass up Russell.

 

[bmattd]

Here is link to a picture of Russell with Eli and Peyton Manning without pads. It's not the best quality picture, but you can see that he's bigger than Eli and Peyton, but not overly fat or even close to it.

My Webpage

 

[trader jake]

Calling him another Leftwich is the same as calling him another Cunningham.

Neither one is accurate.

You don't see Russell as a mobile QB on the NFL level? Well, hooray. Calling him another Leftwich implies that his lack of mobility is going to be a negative. It's a ridiculous comparison, and agreeing with the comparison is even sillier.

Frankly, I see it as an indefensible positon.

You still feel this way?youtube link

2:59 in would seem to confirm what I'm saying about his size

4:25 in he discusses the comparisons to Byron Leftwich

 

[massraider]

Calling him another Leftwich is the same as calling him another Cunningham.

Neither one is accurate.

You don't see Russell as a mobile QB on the NFL level? Well, hooray. Calling him another Leftwich implies that his lack of mobility is going to be a negative. It's a ridiculous comparison, and agreeing with the comparison is even sillier.

Frankly, I see it as an indefensible positon.

You still feel this way?youtube link

2:59 in would seem to confirm what I'm saying about his size

4:25 in he discusses the comparisons to Byron Leftwich

I prefer this clip:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuHXGVudSGw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCvJjJxrSFA

If he busts off a 5.3 40, then I'm right there with you.

Yep, he discussed the Leftwich comparison. he laughed it off. By the way, has anyone compared him to Leftwich besides PFT??

 

[trader jake]

By the way, has anyone compared him to Leftwich besides PFT??

I did (post #48).

 

[trader jake]

I prefer this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuHXGVudSGw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCvJjJxrSFA

1st clip Even the announcers agree..."[Russell] whips this one to no one in particular."

"...and the 39 inch vertical of Doucet pays off."

2nd clip

That is the type of play I'm not sure he'll be able to make in the NFL, but that play was a thing of beauty.

 

[ATC1]

I prefer this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuHXGVudSGw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCvJjJxrSFA

1st clip Even the announcers agree..."[Russell] whips this one to no one in particular."

"...and the 39 inch vertical of Doucet pays off."

2nd clip

That is the type of play I'm not sure he'll be able to make in the NFL, but that play was a thing of beauty.

Yeah, I guess no one in the NFL can jump like Doucet. Moss is just praying someone can find the time to just throw it up.

 

[massraider]

I prefer this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuHXGVudSGw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCvJjJxrSFA

1st clip Even the announcers agree..."[Russell] whips this one to no one in particular."

"...and the 39 inch vertical of Doucet pays off."

Do you see Leftwich-type mobility there?Have you ever seen Leftwich move like that?

Any Youtube links showing Leftwich move like that?

No?

No?

No?

Well, then I guess we're done here.

I'll ask again, has anyone compared him to Leftwich aside from PFT (and people who read PFT)? Any of the scouting guys? Mayock, Kiper, anyone?

Most of us read PFT here as well, Jake. Regurgitating what they say doesn't mean what you say is correct, and just saying 'Russell is Leftwich' really doesn't mean much with nothing behind it. You had nothing to say to back up your statement, and then weeks later come running in here with a picture of Russell with his shirt off. A-ha!! Visual evidence!

They're both black, big, and have strong arms. That's it. LSU had designed run plays for Russell. Marshall didn't run too many QB draws.

 

[trader jake]

I prefer this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuHXGVudSGw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCvJjJxrSFA

1st clip Even the announcers agree..."[Russell] whips this one to no one in particular."

"...and the 39 inch vertical of Doucet pays off."

Do you see Leftwich-type mobility there?Have you ever seen Leftwich move like that?

Any Youtube links showing Leftwich move like that?

No?

No?

No?

Well, then I guess we're done here.

I'll ask again, has anyone compared him to Leftwich aside from PFT (and people who read PFT)? Any of the scouting guys? Mayock, Kiper, anyone?

Most of us read PFT here as well, Jake. Regurgitating what they say doesn't mean what you say is correct, and just saying 'Russell is Leftwich' really doesn't mean much with nothing behind it. You had nothing to say to back up your statement, and then weeks later come running in here with a picture of Russell with his shirt off. A-ha!! Visual evidence!

They're both black, big, and have strong arms. That's it. LSU had designed run plays for Russell. Marshall didn't run too many QB draws.

Wow. The tool factor in this post is off the charts. The next time I parrot what I read somewhere else here will be the first time. You seem to be the one stuck on what PFT says...who cares what Florio says? It's one man's opinion, just like mine. I believe Russell is a slightly better version of Leftwich regardless of what any site says.

Russell is a 1st round bust waiting to happen. I'm hoping the Raiders waste the 1st overall pick on him. Al Davis and you seem excited about his prospects...and you'll deserve what you get from him. Not much.

 

[massraider]

I prefer this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuHXGVudSGw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCvJjJxrSFA

1st clip :X Even the announcers agree..."[Russell] whips this one to no one in particular."

"...and the 39 inch vertical of Doucet pays off."

Do you see Leftwich-type mobility there?Have you ever seen Leftwich move like that?

Any Youtube links showing Leftwich move like that?

No?

No?

No?

Well, then I guess we're done here.

I'll ask again, has anyone compared him to Leftwich aside from PFT (and people who read PFT)? Any of the scouting guys? Mayock, Kiper, anyone?

Most of us read PFT here as well, Jake. Regurgitating what they say doesn't mean what you say is correct, and just saying 'Russell is Leftwich' really doesn't mean much with nothing behind it. You had nothing to say to back up your statement, and then weeks later come running in here with a picture of Russell with his shirt off. A-ha!! Visual evidence!

They're both black, big, and have strong arms. That's it. LSU had designed run plays for Russell. Marshall didn't run too many QB draws.

Wow. The tool factor in this post is off the charts.

You're the one that threw the Youtube clip up there, asking me if I changed my mind. Sorry if I out-tooled you.You're entitled to your opinion, same as me. Of course. Difference is, I've explained my opinion. You haven't. Maybe PFT will do a detailed write up, so you can explain your position further.

 

[trader jake]

Wow. The tool factor in this post is off the charts.

You're the one that threw the Youtube clip up there, asking me if I changed my mind. Sorry if I out-tooled you.

Nobody can out-tool you massraiders, props.The youtube clip I posted is self-explanatory...JaMarcus Russell isn't a physical specimen. Didn't realize you were so slow to pick up the obvious and needed extensive help to get a job done...have you ever run a bed and breakfast?The logical conclusion being that if Russell is too lazy to enter the combine in better shape with millions of dollars on the line why should NFL teams expect him to do so when he already has those millions of dollars in his back pocket? That reminds me of a few top prospects from the past who didn't apply themselves to their craft.

 

[trader jake]

You're entitled to your opinion, same as me. Of course. Difference is, I've explained my opinion. You haven't. Maybe PFT will do a detailed write up, so you can explain your position further.

Reading comprehension down?Post 17: Reasons why Brady Quinn is the superior QB to Russell.

Post 35: Campare and contrast Russell to Leaf and Quinn to Manning

Post 48: You pushed for a better comparison than Leaf so I also gave you Akili Smith because of the organization/team situation and Byron Leftwich due to their similar body types and similar physical traits

Post 54: Quoted PFT article where the comparisons to Leftwich and Russell was mentioned (big arm/limited mobility)

FBG dparker713 tried to discuss the issue for a while with you (comparing Russell to Jared Lorenzen and Daunte Culpepper) before being out-tooled by you in Post 67 when you state that comparing Russell and Leftwich is a "indefensible positon"

Post 71: youtube where JaMarcus Russell acts as Byron Leftwich's body-double making our assertions very defensible and clearly accurate

Carry on with your one man losing battle. I just read on PFT that you're starting to remind scouts of Al Davis.

 

[massraider]

Post 17: Well great, you think Quinn is better than Russell. Awesome. Hooray. Why do I care? I'm on record as saying in this thread that I don't know who the better QB will be.

Post 35: Great. Leaf/Russell comparisons. Not really the opinion that I'm contesting, is it? No, I'm interested in the leftwich comparison.

Post 48: Where you call Russell Leftwich. Frankly, this is the only thing I take issue with.

Leftwich is defined by his immobility. It's such a huge issue with him, because he is so immobile. I'm not sure if I have ever seen a QB slower into his drop. This is why I think the comparison can't go any further than that. Leftwich is a statue. And Russell is a mobile QB. I think it's an indefensible position because I think both those facts are pretty self-evident.

 

[trader jake]

Post 17: Well great, you think Quinn is better than Russell. Awesome. Hooray. Why do I care? I'm on record as saying in this thread that I don't know who the better QB will be.

Post 35: Great. Leaf/Russell comparisons. Not really the opinion that I'm contesting, is it? No, I'm interested in the leftwich comparison.

Post 48: Where you call Russell Leftwich. Frankly, this is the only thing I take issue with.

Leftwich is defined by his immobility. It's such a huge issue with him, because he is so immobile. I'm not sure if I have ever seen a QB slower into his drop. This is why I think the comparison can't go any further than that. Leftwich is a statue. And Russell is a mobile QB. I think it's an indefensible position because I think both those facts are pretty self-evident.

Fair enough. I guess that's where we disagree.I believe Leftwich is defined by great ability but a lack of physical conditioning. This is one of the criticisms that Russell will have to prove incorrect if he's going to be a more successful player in the NFL than Leftwich.

 

[dparker713]

Post 17: Well great, you think Quinn is better than Russell. Awesome. Hooray. Why do I care? I'm on record as saying in this thread that I don't know who the better QB will be.

Post 35: Great. Leaf/Russell comparisons. Not really the opinion that I'm contesting, is it? No, I'm interested in the leftwich comparison.

Post 48: Where you call Russell Leftwich. Frankly, this is the only thing I take issue with.

Leftwich is defined by his immobility. It's such a huge issue with him, because he is so immobile. I'm not sure if I have ever seen a QB slower into his drop. This is why I think the comparison can't go any further than that. Leftwich is a statue. And Russell is a mobile QB. I think it's an indefensible position because I think both those facts are pretty self-evident.

Thats hardly a given. He was a fairly mobile QB in college when he could shrug off half the players. He won't be faster or bigger then the linemen chasing him in the NFL. He's not going to create yards with his feet. He *may* be able to create time, ala Favre or Marino, by side stepping in the pocket. And these will only really be possible if he keeps his weight down. Given the shots of him at the combine, I dont see that as a high percentage bet.

 

[trader jake]

Quinn was ripped and he sure is talking the talk. I think he's gained some ground.I like him in Miami and really for his sake hope he lands there.

I agree. There is a fine line between confidence and cockiness and Quinn seems capable of staying on the right side of that line. Great trait for a QB to have.The more Quinn falls the more likely he lands with a team better prepared to win. Similar to Leinart's slide last year to #10. He ended up with an offensive with weapons already in place in Arizona. The top of this year's draft is littered with teams who are sorely lacking on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[gump]

He was a fairly mobile QB in college when he could shrug off half the players. He won't be faster or bigger then the linemen chasing him in the NFL.

He played in the SEC, not the MAC. A decent % of the guys he shrugged will be the same guys he's shrugging off at the next level.I recall him eluding and shrugging two guys in particular who finished #1 and #2 in the NFL Defensive ROY vote.Russell has always been able to evade pressure and get the throw off. And his arm is so big that he can make a good throw on the run. I don't why his mobility would be a big concern.

 

[trader jake]

It's ***official***

JaMarcus Russell = bust #1 pick for Oakland

Brady Quinn = value at #22 to Cleveland

 

[bcr8f]

Quinn was ripped and he sure is talking the talk. I think he's gained some ground.I like him in Miami and really for his sake hope he lands there.

I agree. There is a fine line between confidence and cockiness and Quinn seems capable of staying on the right side of that line. Great trait for a QB to have.The more Quinn falls the more likely he lands with a team better prepared to win. Similar to Leinart's slide last year to #10. He ended up with an offensive with weapons already in place in Arizona. The top of this year's draft is littered with teams who are sorely lacking on the offensive side of the ball.

I don't agree at all. His constant 'make me the top pick' schtick on every morning and talk show leading up to the draft I found totally overbearing. He crossed way over the line of confidence.

 

[trader jake]

BUMP Lot's of quality in this thread. How is this going for you so far massraiders?

- Last week the JaMarcus Russell led Raiders offense had one of the most pathetic performances in recent NFL history.

- Last night the Brady Quinn led Browns offense was efficient and responded very well in the new kids first NFL start.

- JaMarcus Russell career QB rating - 65.9

- Brady Quinn career QB rating - 95.5

So far this is going EXACTLY as I predicted it would. Yes it's extremely early but so far it's obvious who the better NFL quarterback is going to be...and it ain't JaMarcus Russell.

 

[rgmnchr]

Premature? Lil bit

Immature? Yep

One game dude. Chill out. I have a man crush on Quinn too but lets not forget in DA's first start he threw 5 touchdown passes and had a qb rating of like 500 and look how that turned out.

By the way IMO you are a loser. Pulling up a 6 mo old thread after 1 decent start against a TERRIBLE defense to say "I told you so" is quite ridiculous

 

[rgmnchr]

Premature? Lil bit

Immature? Yep

One game dude. Chill out. I have a man crush on Quinn too but lets not forget in DA's first start he threw 5 touchdown passes and had a qb rating of like 500 and look how that turned out.

By the way IMO you are a loser. Pulling up a 6 mo old thread after 1 decent start against a TERRIBLE defense to say "I told you so" is quite ridiculous

 

[Super King]

Premature? Lil bit

Immature? Yep

One game dude. Chill out. I have a man crush on Quinn too but lets not forget in DA's first start he threw 5 touchdown passes and had a qb rating of like 500 and look how that turned out.

By the way IMO you are a loser. Pulling up a 6 mo old thread after 1 decent start against a TERRIBLE defense to say "I told you so" is quite ridiculous

Actually, it's more like 1 1/2 year old thread.

 

[trader jake]

Massraider and I have been here quite a while and we both get how the board works. Neither one of us are trolls and in a few seasons we'll still be here debating the NFL. rgmnchr, you haven't even been registered for this season so don't act all itough calling someone immature or a loser. That doesn't fly here. It's not an "I told you so"...it's a "Hey, remember this debate from 1 1/2 years ago? Yeah, me too and so far 'scoreboard'". We'll see what happens moving forward. That's the whole point of bumping.

Actually, it's more like 1 1/2 year old thread.

Exactly Super King. It's not about a single start, it's about debating Quinn v. Russell. That's been a little bit hard to do considering Quinn hasn't started a game until Thursday. Since that start occurred I'm bumping a former thread to continue the debate....that's what we do here. I'm sure Quinn will have some rough starts as defensive coordinators get film on him and the defenses he faces can't be much worse than Denver but I liked what I saw in game 1 of the Quinn Era in Cleveland.

 

[Traders2001]

Russell is totally worthless . They should start looking for a QB for 2009.

Cant read defenses ,cant throw the deep ball , cant trow the short ball , cant throw the touch ball .

WOw what a waste of a first round pick ,he just is nt a NFL QB.

 

[trader jake]

Russell is totally worthless . They should start looking for a QB for 2009.Cant read defenses ,cant throw the deep ball , cant trow the short ball , cant throw the touch ball .WOw what a waste of a first round pick ,he just is nt a NFL QB.

I'll bash on JaMarcus Russell as much as anybody but there's no way the Raiders look for a new QB next season. He's too young, Al Davis has invested too much money, and the line in front of him as been too poor to blame it all on him. Those "Raider" factors clearly had to be factored in when assessing his chance of being successful in the NFL but even I think dumping him now wouldn't be prudent considering the investment made in him.What's the word out of Oakland: Is he a gamer? Does he put in the time (weights/film) to be great?

 

[Wilbur Wood]

Jamarcus Russell looks like a cross between Culpepper (the post-knee injury version) and Leftwich (the one who played in the last 6 or so games as a Jags starter).

His ceiling is that of a slightly below-average NFL QB.

His floor is Clip Board Carrier.

 

[No. 16]

Russell is totally worthless . They should start looking for a QB for 2009.Cant read defenses ,cant throw the deep ball , cant trow the short ball , cant throw the touch ball .WOw what a waste of a first round pick ,he just is nt a NFL QB.

I'll bash on JaMarcus Russell as much as anybody but there's no way the Raiders look for a new QB next season. He's too young, Al Davis has invested too much money, and the line in front of him as been too poor to blame it all on him. Those "Raider" factors clearly had to be factored in when assessing his chance of being successful in the NFL but even I think dumping him now wouldn't be prudent considering the investment made in him.What's the word out of Oakland: Is he a gamer? Does he put in the time (weights/film) to be great?

Never heard anything bad about him regarding his workout habits and especially regarding film. He stayed in Oakland all off-season reviewing tapes and working with the QB coach. He was chosen to be offensive team captain so he must be preparing for his job. Russell has all the intangibles to be a good QB - he exudes a quiet confidence, doesn't blame his teammates, and takes responsibility as a leader. Not once has he blamed his ####ty WRs or limited time to pass. He's always said he's got to get better and you believe him. On the field aside from his leadership he looks so composed in the pocket and that's a big thing considering how poor the Oakland O-line is. He is mobile and has a cannon arm. The only problem is his inaccuracy (but is that due to o-line play?) and lack of big plays/consistency (again his o-line and WRs suck).I'll still give him sometime. Not every QB can come out like gangbusters.

 

[massraider]

Russell is totally worthless . They should start looking for a QB for 2009.Cant read defenses ,cant throw the deep ball , cant trow the short ball , cant throw the touch ball .WOw what a waste of a first round pick ,he just is nt a NFL QB.

I'll bash on JaMarcus Russell as much as anybody but there's no way the Raiders look for a new QB next season. He's too young, Al Davis has invested too much money, and the line in front of him as been too poor to blame it all on him. Those "Raider" factors clearly had to be factored in when assessing his chance of being successful in the NFL but even I think dumping him now wouldn't be prudent considering the investment made in him.What's the word out of Oakland:

Word is he still has a job.

 

[Novice2]

Russell is totally worthless . They should start looking for a QB for 2009.Cant read defenses ,cant throw the deep ball , cant trow the short ball , cant throw the touch ball .WOw what a waste of a first round pick ,he just is nt a NFL QB.

I'll bash on JaMarcus Russell as much as anybody but there's no way the Raiders look for a new QB next season. He's too young, Al Davis has invested too much money, and the line in front of him as been too poor to blame it all on him. Those "Raider" factors clearly had to be factored in when assessing his chance of being successful in the NFL but even I think dumping him now wouldn't be prudent considering the investment made in him.What's the word out of Oakland:

Word is he still has a job.

Week 5 rides the pine. Vick in 2k10

 

[trader jake]

I this thread. BUMP.

Today the stars misaligned and both Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russell made the news.

Leaf link

Leaf was indicted yesterday in Texas on seven counts of obtaining a controlled substance by fraud, one count of delivery of a simulated controlled substance, and then the real kicker, one count of burglary of a habitation.

Just when you think the guy can't fall any further. What a waste.Russell link including

So, Raiders quarterback JaMarcus Russell likes to party. He likes unlit stogies, specialty drinks and gaudy jewelry. That much, we know, from photos that surfaced at partychaser.com this week (and sent by several alert readers. So does this mean anything?

If nothing else, it puts him in the Internet company of young quarterbacks Vince Young and Matt Leinart, who saw their own offseason partying make national news back when they were still considered future stars. The larger potential problem is Russell's image, which has never really recovered since he staged the longest contract holdout by a No. 1 overall pick since Bo Jackson.

Because he's large by nature, he gets called out of shape. When Tom Cable keeps saying he must work harder, some people call him lazy. When he doesn't show emotion on the field, people say he just doesn't care. When he misfires in minicamp, it's said he just doesn't get it. Perception, reality, whatever. Pictures like this do nothing to help Russell's image as the face of this franchise, which Cable keeps saying he is.

Thankfully Russell has avoided any major off the field nonsense but this season could be his last chance at being a quality starting quarterback in Silver & Black. Jeff Garcia wasn't brought in to just hold a clipboard.---

Peyton Manning and Brady Quinn both play in the Midwest. So they have that in common...which is nice.

 

[Gopher State]

Russell is totally worthless . They should start looking for a QB for 2009.Cant read defenses ,cant throw the deep ball , cant trow the short ball , cant throw the touch ball .WOw what a waste of a first round pick ,he just is nt a NFL QB.

very

 

[perry147]

Russell is totally worthless . They should start looking for a QB for 2009.Cant read defenses ,cant throw the deep ball , cant trow the short ball , cant throw the touch ball .WOw what a waste of a first round pick ,he just is nt a NFL QB.

very

Come'on he showed some signs at the end of latest year that he could still make it. I think that they need to start testing NFL prospects on their maturity level, before wasting 1st round picks on them.