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James Davis (1 Viewer)
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Carl Eller's Dead Liver
Footballguy
I think the answer is pretty obvious. He wasn't highly thought of coming into the NFL.....sure there was steam last year cause of an aging Lewis and really an unknown in Harrison....but honestly the guy doesn't have what it takes. If he did the Browns wouldn't have spent a valuable 2nd rounder on Hardesty.
Mohawk
Footballguy
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
Davis was a 6th round draft pick. Hardesty went about where he was projected.
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Faust
MVP
There is some good discussion on the third page of the Hardesty thread:
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...0&start=100
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...0&start=100
baconisgood
Footballguy
RE: Davis 2009 Preseason:
Many are under the impression that James Davis achieved a high level of performance in the preseason of 2009, this is a less glowing description of what he did.
1. Game 1 against GB- 2 rushes for 5 yards.
2. Game 2- Davis ripped off an 81 yard TD late in the 3rd quarter against the Lions 3rd stringers. His other 11 attempts went for 35 yards- 3.3 y/c.
3. Game 3 TEN- Davis has 1 rush for 1 yard and 2 receptions for 12 yards in the first half and his best rushing occurs in the 4th quarter (a 16 yard run) and he finishes with 5/27 rushing and 4/27 receiving.
As a Browns fan my impression of Davis last year was that he was totally unimpressive and had a couple of big runs through gaping holes
81 yarder against DET
on a draw the one DET defender takes a horrible angle and Davis makes him miss- then its a foot race.
Many are under the impression that James Davis achieved a high level of performance in the preseason of 2009, this is a less glowing description of what he did.
1. Game 1 against GB- 2 rushes for 5 yards.
2. Game 2- Davis ripped off an 81 yard TD late in the 3rd quarter against the Lions 3rd stringers. His other 11 attempts went for 35 yards- 3.3 y/c.
3. Game 3 TEN- Davis has 1 rush for 1 yard and 2 receptions for 12 yards in the first half and his best rushing occurs in the 4th quarter (a 16 yard run) and he finishes with 5/27 rushing and 4/27 receiving.
As a Browns fan my impression of Davis last year was that he was totally unimpressive and had a couple of big runs through gaping holes
81 yarder against DET
on a draw the one DET defender takes a horrible angle and Davis makes him miss- then its a foot race.
Which defender took a horrible anlge? Davis put a great move in the hole on the first guy.
baconisgood
Footballguy
We will have to agree to disagree.
baconisgood
Footballguy
I don't want to agree to disagree- I want to talk football!!!!
They way I see the play (pause at 24 seconds for a good view) is that the safety (nickle back?) has no help to his backside, due to it being a draw play the CB is deeper than usual and there is no one else on the right side (from the defenders' POV) of the field. To his left there are 2 LBs (one of whom has shed his block and has plugged up a cut to that side) and safety help over the top of the receiver (Winslow). The safeties responsibility is clear in this situation- prevent the cutback as you go in for the tackle.
Shutout
Footballguy
I like Davis. Like the OP said, here's a guy that kept Spiller on the bench so apparently he can be effective in the right situation.
Harrison is getting attention because his contributions were more recent. Davis went to IR last year and Harrison had those big games but let's face it; he was ripping off those numbers against BAD teams that had packed it in. Honestly, I have no idea what people see in Hardesty but if nothing else, the Browns NEEDED a RB. They had nobody proven and if they are like most teams, need 2 backs at least and at last count they had none.
I think there is a good chance that the new management group came in and honestly didn't have anything to go on with Davis. So they have to cover their bases but I think once he is in camp this year and playing, if he is a good player, he can rise quite a bit and be a very pleasant surprise for the Browns, especially since there isn't an established vet in front of him.
I DON'T put a lot of stock into 40 times and whatnot but, just as a baseline comparison, I like Davis' size and speed every bit as much as I like Hardesty's and the one thing that I have seen on the NFL level with Davis, late game or backups or not, is that he has in-game running speed to break a big play and that is something that EVERYONE is looking for right now in the NFL.
Harrison is getting attention because his contributions were more recent. Davis went to IR last year and Harrison had those big games but let's face it; he was ripping off those numbers against BAD teams that had packed it in. Honestly, I have no idea what people see in Hardesty but if nothing else, the Browns NEEDED a RB. They had nobody proven and if they are like most teams, need 2 backs at least and at last count they had none.
I think there is a good chance that the new management group came in and honestly didn't have anything to go on with Davis. So they have to cover their bases but I think once he is in camp this year and playing, if he is a good player, he can rise quite a bit and be a very pleasant surprise for the Browns, especially since there isn't an established vet in front of him.
I DON'T put a lot of stock into 40 times and whatnot but, just as a baseline comparison, I like Davis' size and speed every bit as much as I like Hardesty's and the one thing that I have seen on the NFL level with Davis, late game or backups or not, is that he has in-game running speed to break a big play and that is something that EVERYONE is looking for right now in the NFL.
go2extrems
Footballguy
I think there are a couple of things coming into play when you ask about James Davis.
First off, he doesn't have the background or recent hype to be an exciting commodity in the fantasy community. Jerome Harrison finished last year on a tear, leading to the often misguided idea by fantasy owners that a player with a short stretch of great games can sustain that for a whole season. Hardesty is the 'new shiny object' in Cleveland and warrants discussion and hope for that fact alone.
Second, Davis lacks the all-around skill set to be a big player in the NFL at this point. He's a pounder with adequate but unimpressive receiving skills. He's also not much of a blocker at this point. He doesn't offer the versatility of either Harrison or Hardesty and is coming off of a season ending torn labrum.
Finally, Davis' running style is not really a good fit in Cleveland. Davis is the kind of back who pounds away and wears down a defense. With Cleveland's struggles to gain or maintain a lead in football games, they're likely not going to have the opportunity often enough to just pound away at a defense, even if Davis were the best option on the team.
Depending on the cost, Davis may be worth holding in dynasty leagues, but he doesn't need to be included in any redraft discussions.
First off, he doesn't have the background or recent hype to be an exciting commodity in the fantasy community. Jerome Harrison finished last year on a tear, leading to the often misguided idea by fantasy owners that a player with a short stretch of great games can sustain that for a whole season. Hardesty is the 'new shiny object' in Cleveland and warrants discussion and hope for that fact alone.
Second, Davis lacks the all-around skill set to be a big player in the NFL at this point. He's a pounder with adequate but unimpressive receiving skills. He's also not much of a blocker at this point. He doesn't offer the versatility of either Harrison or Hardesty and is coming off of a season ending torn labrum.
Finally, Davis' running style is not really a good fit in Cleveland. Davis is the kind of back who pounds away and wears down a defense. With Cleveland's struggles to gain or maintain a lead in football games, they're likely not going to have the opportunity often enough to just pound away at a defense, even if Davis were the best option on the team.
Depending on the cost, Davis may be worth holding in dynasty leagues, but he doesn't need to be included in any redraft discussions.
Haha... I completely understand.But I don't see it that way at all. The DB is coming to the hole as Davis is breaking through the hole. His angle is to meet Davis in the middle, but Davis sees him, sticks his foot in the turf and puts a great move on him. I don't think the positioning of the other defenders matters, this is bang bang.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
You're overanalyzing this. Preventing the cutback is something you do before you attempt a tackle by staying at home in your gap or zone instead of over pursuing the ball...and it's more of an optional tactic anyway used against backs or schemes who like to reverse direction. Washington used to kill teams that overpursued with their counters and Barry Sanders would reverse the field in a second. It's more about your first couple of steps after the snap as the play is developing and thereby putting yourself in a position to be there to make a tackle in case the runner tries to cutback.
Defending the cutback is not something you do while trying to make a tackle. If you make the tackle, there is no cutback to be made. You aren't herding cattle. If the runner comes back to you, you take him down. You don't try and contain him or herd him to another tackler when he's in your sights and within your striking range. There's too much chaos at that point in the play to say the DB should have approached and positioned himself in the hole to stop a cutback. At that point it's simple...close and hit.
It looks to me like the DB was just trying to get inside to the play because both LB's were being blocked. And if you watch the center, he bumps the left DT before moving to the MLB which would normally indicate the play is going to his right (DB's left). The DB reads this and sees everyone engaged with blockers so he's just coming in to fill. And you'll also notice the right side of the o-line has the defense bunched up and walled off. Davis actually has his choice of left or right though he may have to run throught the right DE's arm tackle if he runs right. Interestingly, it looks like the left DT opens the left side hole wider by trying to get over to close the right side hole.
It was a well executed draw. No double teams and the o-line (5 OL's + 1TE) neutralize 4 DL's and 2 LB's. The nickelback is delayed by the draw fake (by design) just long enough. He has to rush in to fill the gap. And the play looks to be running off the center's right side. A better hole just happened to open between the opposite side guard and tackle and Davis reads it well. The DB is trying to cover two holes because he's the only guy unblocked and moving forward. Davis makes a nice read and then makes a nice move on the DB. If the DB commits to that near side hole, Davis goes through the right and the DB gets caught up in the trash.
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Tackling Dummies
Footballguy
and I'd break it down to the first step.
ZWK
Footballguy
Exactly. Last offseason Jamal Lewis looked like a walking corpse, and Davis and Harrison were competing to see who would be in position to take over if he received his proper burial, so either one of them was a good option for a flyer and they both got some hype. Now Harrison has established himself as a guy who can play & carry a workload, and Hardesty is way better than Lewis was, so Davis seems to be stuck at third on the depth chart (or even competing with Jennings for that spot). And word out of Cleveland fits that story - first they drafted Hardesty (not a good sign for Davis), and since then they've treated Harrison as the incumbent starter, Hardesty as the talented up-and-comer fighting to be lead back, and Davis as nothing more than depth.
benson_will_lead_the_way
Footballguy
Dwyer lovers should see this too
Is there still hope? Random postings from camp
Backup Running Backs: Dawg Scooper took some notes on RB Chris Jennings and RB James Davis. Jennings 'ran with power and had a nice spin move.' I wonder if that's the same spin move that I saw in regular season action last year. If it is, while they seemed to work out, I had my doubts whether he could always get away with that.
Davis, meanwhile, 'showed off his speed' and ran for a ton of yards after the catch on a pass in the flat. Grossi notes that DT Ahtyba Rubin was the closest defender, and admirably tried to chase him down for 25 yards but to no avail.
Big Runs for Running Backs: While fans assumed that Chris Jennings would be the odd man out of the Browns' backfield, he's not going down quietly. He had a big run on a cutback play, but his competition, James Davis, matched him by scoring on a pitch play to the left edge. Davis relied on his speed to give him the advantage and break the big run.
Backup Running Backs: Dawg Scooper took some notes on RB Chris Jennings and RB James Davis. Jennings 'ran with power and had a nice spin move.' I wonder if that's the same spin move that I saw in regular season action last year. If it is, while they seemed to work out, I had my doubts whether he could always get away with that.
Davis, meanwhile, 'showed off his speed' and ran for a ton of yards after the catch on a pass in the flat. Grossi notes that DT Ahtyba Rubin was the closest defender, and admirably tried to chase him down for 25 yards but to no avail.
Big Runs for Running Backs: While fans assumed that Chris Jennings would be the odd man out of the Browns' backfield, he's not going down quietly. He had a big run on a cutback play, but his competition, James Davis, matched him by scoring on a pitch play to the left edge. Davis relied on his speed to give him the advantage and break the big run.
Dawg Pound 69
Footballguy
Not sure how the 3rd string running back for Cleveland could possibly have any fantasy value. If Harrison & Hardesty were to both get injured, seems pretty likely that Mangini would rely on Hillis before he'd turn to either Davis or Jennings.
Shutout
Footballguy
- When Harrison gets exposed for playing against the worst 5 run D's from last year and appearing to look legit.- When Hardesty gets exposed for being a guy that can never stay healthy.that's how 3 becomes 1.
Cleveland has an up and coming O-line. it may become one of the best groups going forward over the next 10 years provided the line remains healthy.so with that being said, you have to assume this will show itself in the running game and this is where you are likely to find your deep sleeper. Someone on this team will put up good numbers running the ball.it's just a question of who and when it will happen.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Who is Jerome Harrison in the last 4 games of '09?
From Rotoworld:
With Montario Hardesty (knee) sidelined, Peyton Hillis is running with the second team.
Hillis appears to be ahead of James Davis and Chris Jennings for now. The bruising power back is getting a chance to flash his versatility by putting those surprisingly soft hands on display. Still, if both Hardesty and Jerome Harrison are healthy, there will only be table scraps left.
With Montario Hardesty (knee) sidelined, Peyton Hillis is running with the second team.
Hillis appears to be ahead of James Davis and Chris Jennings for now. The bruising power back is getting a chance to flash his versatility by putting those surprisingly soft hands on display. Still, if both Hardesty and Jerome Harrison are healthy, there will only be table scraps left.
gotta love training camp hype...
The Rep Chart: Running back James Davis saw more reps than Jerome Harrison did today, according to Dawg Scooper. I can only imagine that this is a result of Mangini's previously discussed "rep chart," in which players at a position have a set amount of reps designated for them. If the Browns are to carry two fullbacks and three running backs, then Davis seems to be ahead of Chris Jennings on the depth chart.
The Rep Chart: Running back James Davis saw more reps than Jerome Harrison did today, according to Dawg Scooper. I can only imagine that this is a result of Mangini's previously discussed "rep chart," in which players at a position have a set amount of reps designated for them. If the Browns are to carry two fullbacks and three running backs, then Davis seems to be ahead of Chris Jennings on the depth chart.
Ducegonads
Footballguy
I can admit it. I can also tell you that he will be cut coming into my rookie draft. Stay away from Browns Rookie RB's who show just enough in the preseason to make ya think. Hardesty could fit the mold next. Buyer beware.
