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James Harrison to return sons' participation trophies (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Tom Servo
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Hooper31
Footballguy
Its emblematic of what people truly value. They pay a lot of lip service to participating and learning, but when its comes down to it they value winning above all else.Ignoramus said:I have a hard time understanding what's so sacred about a TROPHY.
parrot
Footballguy
How bad of a parent do you have to be to think a $4 piece of plastic is going to have this kind of damaging effect on your child?
glock
"Don't grumble, give a whistle!"
Memorabilia (trophies) for participation ARE different from the reward given the the actual champions/winners. They are usually about as big as the penis's of those trashing participation trophies (3-4") as opposed to those given the placers (8") and winners (12")Trophies are for winners...DUH!Ignoramus said:
I say that only half-jokingly. Memorabalia for participation should be different than the reward given to the actual champions/winners. By giving everyone a trophy, you devalue the accomplishments of the actual winners.
It's fair to say I'm not against participation awards, but strongly believe they should be different than the winner's rewards.
No kids are mistaking participation trophies for winner's trophies. The real whiners/losers up in here are those adults choosing not to see the difference. Imagine that.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
Have not read the thread here...just listening to radio the last few days discussing all of this.
I see both sides of this.
I think at a certain younger age...its not a big deal at the end of the season to "reward" accomplishment. Those ages are for learning whatever game, the fundamentals and skills involved. I have no problem is score is kept or not at young ages. Because the kids will know the score in a way anyway. But if you make it all about that end game of winning. The skills and fundamentals become a bit secondary. 8 and under rec sport...not a big deal.
Now...when you get a bit older...yes, teaching them winning and losing is important. Skills should already be developing enough where you can focus more on the goal of winning. And obviously in any travel/competitive league, there should be no trophy for participation.
Either win something if you want one...or teach the kids to work harder to improve.
A big part of that is parenting and has little to do with whether they get a trophy or not though.
And I do think its ridiculous to get a trophy for going to a camp.
I see both sides of this.
I think at a certain younger age...its not a big deal at the end of the season to "reward" accomplishment. Those ages are for learning whatever game, the fundamentals and skills involved. I have no problem is score is kept or not at young ages. Because the kids will know the score in a way anyway. But if you make it all about that end game of winning. The skills and fundamentals become a bit secondary. 8 and under rec sport...not a big deal.
Now...when you get a bit older...yes, teaching them winning and losing is important. Skills should already be developing enough where you can focus more on the goal of winning. And obviously in any travel/competitive league, there should be no trophy for participation.
Either win something if you want one...or teach the kids to work harder to improve.
A big part of that is parenting and has little to do with whether they get a trophy or not though.
And I do think its ridiculous to get a trophy for going to a camp.
parrot
Footballguy
Memorabilia (trophies) for participation ARE different from the reward given the the actual champions/winners. They are usually about as big as the penis's of those trashing participation trophies (3-4") as opposed to those given the placers (8") and winners (12")Trophies are for winners...DUH!Ignoramus said:
I say that only half-jokingly. Memorabalia for participation should be different than the reward given to the actual champions/winners. By giving everyone a trophy, you devalue the accomplishments of the actual winners.
It's fair to say I'm not against participation awards, but strongly believe they should be different than the winner's rewards.
No kids are mistaking participation trophies for winner's trophies. The real whiners/losers up in here are those adults choosing not to see the difference. Imagine that.
The same people who make the "not keeping score" necessary by making it way too important at an age where it shouldn't be. Our league always kept score in tee-ball until one huge jackass coach decided to make it his goal in life to make 6 year olds feel ####ty about losing tee-ball games, and pissed off their parents in the process. The response was to quit keeping score. It had virtually nothing to do with the kids themselves.
glock
"Don't grumble, give a whistle!"
It's all fun and games until the adults get involved...Memorabilia (trophies) for participation ARE different from the reward given the the actual champions/winners. They are usually about as big as the penis's of those trashing participation trophies (3-4") as opposed to those given the placers (8") and winners (12")Trophies are for winners...DUH!Ignoramus said:
I say that only half-jokingly. Memorabalia for participation should be different than the reward given to the actual champions/winners. By giving everyone a trophy, you devalue the accomplishments of the actual winners.
It's fair to say I'm not against participation awards, but strongly believe they should be different than the winner's rewards.
No kids are mistaking participation trophies for winner's trophies. The real whiners/losers up in here are those adults choosing not to see the difference. Imagine that.
The same people who make the "not keeping score" necessary by making it way too important at an age where it shouldn't be. Our league always kept score in tee-ball until one huge jackass coach decided to make it his goal in life to make 6 year olds feel ####ty about losing tee-ball games, and pissed off their parents in the process. The response was to quit keeping score. It had virtually nothing to do with the kids themselves.
glock
"Don't grumble, give a whistle!"
MattFancy
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
When I was a kid, not only did we not get "participation" trophies, the trophies for first place were substantially larger than that of second. Oh the horror!!!!!!!! I don't understand why parents who are against these participation trophies insist on signing their kids up to play in those sorts of leagues.
How bad of a parent do you have to be to think a $4 piece of plastic is going to have this kind of damaging effect on your child?
Todem
Footballguy
Nail on head.I'm good with trophies till about 9 or 10.
Ours are probably cheaper than a t shirt
Once my kid got into Kid pitch baseball the trophy BS ended.
He now has to earn a tournament medal or trophy.
I don't see anything wrong with young kids ages 4-8 getting a token for working hard and learning and developing in chosen sport. But once you get to a certain level, it needs to be taught how to win and lose and earn what you want....in life.
Tee ball and coach pitch are total development levels and parents who are super competitive about those levels are out of their minds and bat crazy and are the real problem.
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Todem
Footballguy
Exactly.It's all fun and games until the adults get involved...Memorabilia (trophies) for participation ARE different from the reward given the the actual champions/winners. They are usually about as big as the penis's of those trashing participation trophies (3-4") as opposed to those given the placers (8") and winners (12")Trophies are for winners...DUH!Ignoramus said:
I say that only half-jokingly. Memorabalia for participation should be different than the reward given to the actual champions/winners. By giving everyone a trophy, you devalue the accomplishments of the actual winners.
It's fair to say I'm not against participation awards, but strongly believe they should be different than the winner's rewards.
No kids are mistaking participation trophies for winner's trophies. The real whiners/losers up in here are those adults choosing not to see the difference. Imagine that.
The same people who make the "not keeping score" necessary by making it way too important at an age where it shouldn't be. Our league always kept score in tee-ball until one huge jackass coach decided to make it his goal in life to make 6 year olds feel ####ty about losing tee-ball games, and pissed off their parents in the process. The response was to quit keeping score. It had virtually nothing to do with the kids themselves.
I coach a 11U majors level travel baseball team (for my son of course). The kids love playing, they hate losing. But an hour after the game they are happy go lucky and look forward to playing again. Fortunately we have a fantastic group of 11 families that "get it" it took a few seasons to weed out the nut job parents who think winning at all costs is the way.
Every kid on our team must develop in at least 2 positions minimum. No position is not important. We teach our boys that whether you play RF or SS do your job 150% and help the team win. The problem starts always with the parents thinking there kid should be playing SS or 1B or whatever. Or why is Johnny not pitching more. Then the kids hear their parents talk and they start believing the talk.
Getting a group of families that understand it's about team, and playing wherever the team needs you is the #1 goal. I want 9 SS/P
Then I know I have a great team. We have 4 kids on our squad that are all outstanding middle infielders and can also play outfield like nobodies business.. 2 start and when those 2 pitch the other two back them up.
That is a team. Watch the Little League WS.....those kids play everywhere. Winning teams all have that same MO. Kids willing to play anywhere at anytime. The teams stuck with a few of the all star kids who have parents who are incorrigible flame out fast. I see travel teams folding every season because of the parents.
The kids for the most part are never the problem in youth sports. Crazy how out of hand it has become.
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cstu
Footballguy
You're telling me that's no longer the case?When I was a kid, not only did we not get "participation" trophies, the trophies for first place were substantially larger than that of second. Oh the horror!!!!!!!! I don't understand why parents who are against these participation trophies insist on signing their kids up to play in those sorts of leagues.
Todem
Footballguy
First place trophies are always far bigger than second and third. At least in leagues my kid plays in.You're telling me that's no longer the case?When I was a kid, not only did we not get "participation" trophies, the trophies for first place were substantially larger than that of second. Oh the horror!!!!!!!! I don't understand why parents who are against these participation trophies insist on signing their kids up to play in those sorts of leagues.
jhib
Footballguy
How about the 7 year old kid picking dandelions in the outfield, who is lucky to get on base once during the season, but landed on the championship team with the two kids who look like they should be in middle school?
Why does he get a pass (and a trophy)?
No wonder we have so many people in the workforce who shirk their responsibilities or just plain aren't good at their jobs, but are perfectly willing to accept the credit when business is still good.
Trophies only for the GOOD kids on the championship teams from now on!
Why does he get a pass (and a trophy)?
No wonder we have so many people in the workforce who shirk their responsibilities or just plain aren't good at their jobs, but are perfectly willing to accept the credit when business is still good.
Trophies only for the GOOD kids on the championship teams from now on!
cstu
Footballguy
Todem
Footballguy
So what are you supposed to do about that? It's youth rec league baseball?
It's why we moved on to Travel when he turned 8 years old. My son could not stand playing with kids like that and thought he would kill them throwing them the ball.
Rec league is exactly that. You take the good with the bad. And it was like that when i played back in the late 70's. We always had 1 or 2 kids who stunk and we did everything we could to pick them up and help our team win despite their suckness. (think Loopis and Stein on the Bad News Bears)
Those are the type of kids who will never experience that again (winning a title) so they can at least have something to look back on LOL.
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The Commish
Footballguy
My son plays in a developmental league where they don't even do "places" so I don't know for sureYou're telling me that's no longer the case?When I was a kid, not only did we not get "participation" trophies, the trophies for first place were substantially larger than that of second. Oh the horror!!!!!!!! I don't understand why parents who are against these participation trophies insist on signing their kids up to play in those sorts of leagues.
glock
"Don't grumble, give a whistle!"
I think all of those 7 year olds that rode the coattails of their teammates to championships should be made to give back their trophies, get shamed in a public ceremony and be forced to apologize for not actually earning them. SLACKERS!!11!!
jhib
Footballguy
Oops. I thought that I was going overboard enough not to be taken seriously.
Has Harrison come out against 3rd string QBs getting Super Bowl rings yet?
It's barely even a participation trophy when you don't even get into the game.
Todem
Footballguy
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Ned
Footballguy
That doesn't pass the sniff test. Completing a marathon isn't quite the same as Johnny participating in rec soccer...
Folks don't get participation medals in anything shorter than a half marathon because its actually hard to complete anything from 13.1 miles and up. If you go run a 5K, you're going to have to place top 2-3 in your age group to medal/trophy. Virtually every healthy human on the planet can complete a 5K, so why give a medal for that? Now, how many can complete a marathon or even a half?
For the record, I agree that participation trophies are good for the youngin's. Getting the kids excited about the sport at ages 5-8 is a great thing, which is what I think sports at that age should be about. If an 11yr old is still getting a participation trophy? Ehhhh, that's bordering on the argument some folks are making against this.
Not only should we eliminate participation trophies but we should also create a committee to review whether any "winners" trophy are procured in a properly competitive league. If your youth league doesn't have the proper level of competition, no trophy for you. I can think nothing worse than thinking you earned a first place trophy in something when your team really is not even in the top 100 in a region. Also, nothing for players that suck on good teams. What did you earn merely by being lucky enough to be on a team with the really good players. Sends the wrong message. And no more varsity letter jackets either.
And adults need to set the right example, these marathoners coming in at 5 hours, please. Nothing for you. Top 10% by age group only.
And adults need to set the right example, these marathoners coming in at 5 hours, please. Nothing for you. Top 10% by age group only.
Don't agree with that at all.Its emblematic of what people truly value. They pay a lot of lip service to participating and learning, but when its comes down to it they value winning above all else.Ignoramus said:
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Yeah, I also enjoyed the Burnenko article, which isn't surprising as he's basically my spirit animal.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
How do you feel about vanity "3THLETE" license plates? I figure you need to podium in Hawaii to be allowed to have anything like that.
cstu
Footballguy
cstu
Footballguy
Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
The Enemy of Excellence in Youth Sports
"Excellence promotes the growth mindset that Dr. Carol Deck has identified as crucial to learning and high-performance, while a focus on winning promotes the destructive, outcome oriented fixed mindset that fears failure and dismisses effort as meaningless."
"Excellence allows room for failure and learning, while an obsession with winning does not."
That said, I'm not sure a participation trophy is necessary.
"Excellence promotes the growth mindset that Dr. Carol Deck has identified as crucial to learning and high-performance, while a focus on winning promotes the destructive, outcome oriented fixed mindset that fears failure and dismisses effort as meaningless."
"Excellence allows room for failure and learning, while an obsession with winning does not."
That said, I'm not sure a participation trophy is necessary.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
We've kind of pointed out something like that in soccer threads in the past. If you want to win in youth soccer, you find a kid who is physically and/or technically advanced for his or her age and play through him or her. Its not rocket science. It works until it doesn't, which is when the other kids who have been working on their games catch up physically. It obviously ends up being bad for the non-gifted kids, but its also bad for the gifted kid because he or she is never asked to develop his or her game in different ways.
EDIT: BTW, the Stan Van Gundy video linked in that article is fantastic.
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