Jason Taylor to hold press conference tomorrow... (1 Viewer)

[SSOG]

I shudder to enter this argument, but taylor has to be given consideration for the HOF as one of the best players at his position for this era of football. Maybe Freeney comes close, but taylor has been double and triple teamed (by New England) to keep him from the QB and he still gets sacks. Also, lets look at the sacks the guy playing opposite him have gotten in that span... Adawale Ogunglye can thank JT for his contract in chicago. I am not the stat geek most are around here, but young player and aging veteran alike have seen double digit sacks on THE OTHER SIDE of the line b/c of what taylor does on his side. People run at him not b/c he is weak vs the run, but b/c he catches them down the line if they run away from him. Even when the dolphin D has been bad, Taylor is the guy making a play 20 yards down the field from the LOS, or in coverage, etc.I think if you asked Bill Bellicheck if Taylor is a HOF, he would say yes. Taylor did by himself to New England (at times) what it took the giants Front 5 to do vs. then in the last SB.I hate to see the phins/taylor saga drag on... He is the Defensive Dan Marino of this team (Strong defender with no Offense to get him anywhere)

Like I said, I didn't mean it as an insult to Taylor, who I think is easily one of the best DEs the league has seen in a long time. Saying he's no Michael Strahan is meant more to illustrate how highly I think of Strahan than to illustrate how little I think of Taylor. If Taylor is not a Hall of Famer, I think that speaks more to the incredibly high standard to which DEs are held if they wish to make the Hall (compared to, say, RBs, WRs, or QBs).Also, note that I never said teams ran at Taylor because he's a liability against the run. Earlier in this thread I was actually PRAISING him for how strong he was against the run. Again, saying he's no Michael Strahan wasn't mean to insult Taylor any more than it'd be an insult to Strahan if I said he was no Reggie White or Bruce Smith.

 

[Gatorman]

I shudder to enter this argument, but taylor has to be given consideration for the HOF as one of the best players at his position for this era of football. Maybe Freeney comes close, but taylor has been double and triple teamed (by New England) to keep him from the QB and he still gets sacks. Also, lets look at the sacks the guy playing opposite him have gotten in that span... Adawale Ogunglye can thank JT for his contract in chicago. I am not the stat geek most are around here, but young player and aging veteran alike have seen double digit sacks on THE OTHER SIDE of the line b/c of what taylor does on his side. People run at him not b/c he is weak vs the run, but b/c he catches them down the line if they run away from him. Even when the dolphin D has been bad, Taylor is the guy making a play 20 yards down the field from the LOS, or in coverage, etc.I think if you asked Bill Bellicheck if Taylor is a HOF, he would say yes. Taylor did by himself to New England (at times) what it took the giants Front 5 to do vs. then in the last SB.I hate to see the phins/taylor saga drag on... He is the Defensive Dan Marino of this team (Strong defender with no Offense to get him anywhere)

Like I said, I didn't mean it as an insult to Taylor, who I think is easily one of the best DEs the league has seen in a long time. Saying he's no Michael Strahan is meant more to illustrate how highly I think of Strahan than to illustrate how little I think of Taylor. If Taylor is not a Hall of Famer, I think that speaks more to the incredibly high standard to which DEs are held if they wish to make the Hall (compared to, say, RBs, WRs, or QBs).Also, note that I never said teams ran at Taylor because he's a liability against the run. Earlier in this thread I was actually PRAISING him for how strong he was against the run. Again, saying he's no Michael Strahan wasn't mean to insult Taylor any more than it'd be an insult to Strahan if I said he was no Reggie White or Bruce Smith.

SSOG,I value your opinion on these things and just added to the "discussion". I know you are not disparaging taylor and maybe we are reaching a point where th modern player will not be as good as those in the past in terms of "credentials". Brady and Bledsoe are the only QBs left that are in the same vein as the "greats" like Favre, Marino, Montana, Fouts, Kelly, etc. Running Backs are not held to the same standard as Emmitt, Barry, OJ, Dorsett (except maybe LT), WRs still are up there (which is weird considering how denigrated the QBs are)... Taylor is a guy who is one of the "prototypes" for his position. Does that make him a HOF...maybe not. He should be close, and I think another year and maybe a ring would make a difference in this argument.

 

[SSOG]

SSOG,I value your opinion on these things and just added to the "discussion". I know you are not disparaging taylor and maybe we are reaching a point where th modern player will not be as good as those in the past in terms of "credentials". Brady and Bledsoe are the only QBs left that are in the same vein as the "greats" like Favre, Marino, Montana, Fouts, Kelly, etc. Running Backs are not held to the same standard as Emmitt, Barry, OJ, Dorsett (except maybe LT), WRs still are up there (which is weird considering how denigrated the QBs are)... Taylor is a guy who is one of the "prototypes" for his position. Does that make him a HOF...maybe not. He should be close, and I think another year and maybe a ring would make a difference in this argument.

I don't know if the public feels that way (that current greats don't measure up to the past greats anymore). I know I certainly don't. Just looking at players who were active within the past 3 years... I think Shields, Allen, and Roaf measure up favorably against almost all of the greatest offensive linemen of all time (outside of Munoz, of course). I think an argument could be made that Warren Sapp was the best DT to play the game of football, provided you classify Reggie White as a DE. I think Champ Bailey is every bit the cornerback that Deion Sanders was, and could easily finish his career as the best CB of all time. Brady and Manning both have a chance to be the next Montana and Marino, only at an even higher level than even Montana and Marino achieved (Brady could easily beat Montana's rings and put up the numbers to boot, and Manning could put Marino's former records completely out of reach and he already has his ring). Randy Moss, when all is said and done, will probably be considered the best WR of all time (non-Jerry Rice division). Derrick Brooks and Ray Lewis will be the standard against which all OLBs and MLBs will be measured for decades to come. If Antonio Gates stays healthy, he's going to do to Gonzalez and Sharpe what they did to the rest of the league. If Tomlinson stays healthy a couple more years, he's going to be the fifth member in the Brown/Peyton/Smith/Sanders debate. Michael Strahan is no Reggie White or Bruce Smith, but I think he's better than any other DE from the past 30+ years. I don't think there are any clear All-Time Greats (i.e. the players who stand out even among their HoF peers) in the league right now at the Safety position, or at any of the offensive line positions (although the homer in me wants to make an argument for Tom Nalen at Center), but every other position on the field right now is represented by at least one guy who, when he hangs up his cleats, will have people seriously discussing whether he was the best to ever play his position.

 

[Chase Stuart]

SSOG,I value your opinion on these things and just added to the "discussion". I know you are not disparaging taylor and maybe we are reaching a point where th modern player will not be as good as those in the past in terms of "credentials". Brady and Bledsoe are the only QBs left that are in the same vein as the "greats" like Favre, Marino, Montana, Fouts, Kelly, etc. Running Backs are not held to the same standard as Emmitt, Barry, OJ, Dorsett (except maybe LT), WRs still are up there (which is weird considering how denigrated the QBs are)... Taylor is a guy who is one of the "prototypes" for his position. Does that make him a HOF...maybe not. He should be close, and I think another year and maybe a ring would make a difference in this argument.

I don't know if the public feels that way (that current greats don't measure up to the past greats anymore). I know I certainly don't. Just looking at players who were active within the past 3 years... I think Shields, Allen, and Roaf measure up favorably against almost all of the greatest offensive linemen of all time (outside of Munoz, of course). I think an argument could be made that Warren Sapp was the best DT to play the game of football, provided you classify Reggie White as a DE. I think Champ Bailey is every bit the cornerback that Deion Sanders was, and could easily finish his career as the best CB of all time. Brady and Manning both have a chance to be the next Montana and Marino, only at an even higher level than even Montana and Marino achieved (Brady could easily beat Montana's rings and put up the numbers to boot, and Manning could put Marino's former records completely out of reach and he already has his ring). Randy Moss, when all is said and done, will probably be considered the best WR of all time (non-Jerry Rice division). Derrick Brooks and Ray Lewis will be the standard against which all OLBs and MLBs will be measured for decades to come. If Antonio Gates stays healthy, he's going to do to Gonzalez and Sharpe what they did to the rest of the league. If Tomlinson stays healthy a couple more years, he's going to be the fifth member in the Brown/Peyton/Smith/Sanders debate. Michael Strahan is no Reggie White or Bruce Smith, but I think he's better than any other DE from the past 30+ years. I don't think there are any clear All-Time Greats (i.e. the players who stand out even among their HoF peers) in the league right now at the Safety position, or at any of the offensive line positions (although the homer in me wants to make an argument for Tom Nalen at Center), but every other position on the field right now is represented by at least one guy who, when he hangs up his cleats, will have people seriously discussing whether he was the best to ever play his position.

I do think it's funny (even though you're correct) that S is one of the only positions with no All-Time Greats. Career wise, for sure.But I actually think now is the golden era of the position. Athleticism is a huge part of the position, and guys like Reed, Taylor, Polamolu, Sanders and maybe Landry/Rhodes are just different animals. They didn't have safeties like that ever before.