What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Jesse Ventura (1 Viewer)

Cjw_55106

Footballguy
Just my opinion, but this ######## is a major jackass.

When a man regarded as the deadliest sniper in U.S. history detailed his kills in a best-selling autobiography, he also included details about a 2006 incident in which he says he punched a guy he called "Scruff Face" -- later identified as former Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura.

Ventura, a public figure with a tough-guy image, says the fight didn't happen, and he sued author Chris Kyle for defamation. The trial begins Tuesday in federal court in St. Paul, and it will be up to Ventura's attorneys to prove that Kyle's account about that night in a California bar was false -- and even more difficult, that Kyle knew it.

"Ventura is going to have to prove falsity ... but the harder part is proving actual malice," said Raleigh Levine, a law professor at William Mitchell College of Law in St. Paul. "It has to do with what you know about the truth -- that you actually knew that what you were saying was false or that you recklessly disregarded the truth."

Besides sorting out what happened in the bar, jurors will have to assess whether Ventura's reputation was damaged and whether Kyle used Ventura's name to make a profit.

Kyle and a friend were killed in February 2013 at a Texas gun range, allegedly by an Iraq War veteran they were trying to help. Kyle's widow, Taya Kyle, is now the defendant.

Big money might be at stake. Court documents show Kyle's book had earned royalties of more than $3 million as of June 30, 2013, and the judge already has ruled that proceeds from an upcoming movie could be subject to damages, too.

Ventura has said the case isn't about money. "It's about clearing my name. It's a lie," he said in February.

Ventura and Taya Kyle are expected to testify during the trial, which likely will last more than two weeks.

Ventura, a former Navy SEAL and pro wrestler whose post-political life has included hosting several cable TV shows, claims Chris Kyle defamed him to gain notoriety for his best-selling 2012 book, "American Sniper," which describes his kills of insurgents from 1999 to 2009. A movie based on the book, starring Bradley Cooper, is in production.

In the book, Kyle describes an incident in which he claims Ventura was speaking loudly against President George W. Bush, the Iraq War and Navy SEAL tactics. Kyle, also a former Navy SEAL, claimed Ventura said the SEALS "deserve to lose a few." Kyle wrote that he punched Ventura, knocking him to the ground.

Ventura denies making those statements, and says Kyle never laid a hand on him. Kyle had maintained that the events in the book are true and that the essence of what was said is accurate, court documents say.

Both sides have witnesses to back up their version of events, and attorneys have cast doubt on the opposing witnesses' credibility.


While Kyle's book says "rumor has it" Ventura had a black eye the next day, photos of Ventura from that time don't show him with any visible injury, according to court documents.

In March, U.S. District Judge Richard Kyle -- no relation to Chris or Taya Kyle -- said the case could go forward because Ventura had offered sufficient evidence that could lead a jury to conclude Kyle's statements were false.

But because Ventura is a public figure, the judge wrote, Ventura must show "actual malice," or prove by clear and convincing evidence that Kyle knew the statements were false or acted in reckless disregard of the truth.

Levine said Ventura has a high bar to clear, and to win damages, he also must prove his reputation was harmed in a quantifiable way.

In a November deposition, Ventura said his job offers dried up after the book was published, and he was worried about being seen as a traitor to the military. He also said publicity Kyle got from interviews about the alleged incident with Ventura helped Kyle's book sales and led to the film option.

The defense argues in court documents that the public embraced Kyle's book for reasons "completely unrelated to any passing reference to Ventura," and that the book has been more successful than any Ventura has written.

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_26098527/ventura-must-show-sniper-disregarded-truth-book

 
I agree with Ventura. This guy made up a story about knocking him out that didn't even happen. He benefited off of a lie in his book. That's bs.

 
I agree with Ventura. This guy made up a story about knocking him out that didn't even happen. He benefited off of a lie in his book. That's bs.
The Ventura "story" was two pages. Good luck to mr Ventura proving it was a lie, and even more so that Ventura suffered from it.
 
I'm curious as to why pwople side with Ventura. This is the first I'm hearing of this, so I'm just looking for any articles or materials that point to the story being false.

 
agree with Ventura as well. Who cares if the guys dead if debunking the story was the main goal.
:goodposting:

Ventura's a little kooky sometimes, but he's a class act as far as I know and his anti-government positions have never bled over to anything negative about the military. I never read his autobiography, but everything I have read by and about him always confirms that he's a proud ex-military and values his ties to veterans and current enlisted.

That said, you can see why he'd want this story debunked. It's definitely not about the money as much as setting the record straight. That bit about saying the SEALS should lose a few is probably the thing that's pushing him forward with this. The guy criticizes the Bush years all the time. But crapping on serving men? Wishing they'd get killed? I just can't see that.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I agree with Ventura. This guy made up a story about knocking him out that didn't even happen. He benefited off of a lie in his book. That's bs.
The Ventura "story" was two pages. Good luck to mr Ventura proving it was a lie, and even more so that Ventura suffered from it.
Just search YouTube for "Chris Kyle Ventura". He went on multiple TV & radio shows talking about punching Jesse Ventura. If the 2 pages were important enough to talk about every time he was on TV, then it could have certainly helped make some of that 3mil.

 
agree with Ventura as well. Who cares if the guys dead if debunking the story was the main goal.
:goodposting:

Ventura's a little kooky sometimes, but he's a class act as far as I know and his anti-government positions have never bled over to anything negative about the military. I never read his autobiography, but everything I have read by and about him always confirms that he's a proud ex-military and values his ties to veterans and current enlisted.

That said, you can see why he'd want this story debunked. It's definitely not about the money as much as setting the record straight. That bit about saying the SEALS should lose a few is probably the thing that's pushing him forward with this. The guy criticizes the Bush years all the time. But serving men?
Yep.

 
I agree with Ventura. This guy made up a story about knocking him out that didn't even happen. He benefited off of a lie in his book. That's bs.
The Ventura "story" was two pages. Good luck to mr Ventura proving it was a lie, and even more so that Ventura suffered from it.
Just search YouTube for "Chris Kyle Ventura". He went on multiple TV & radio shows talking about punching Jesse Ventura. If the 2 pages were important enough to talk about every time he was on TV, then it could have certainly helped make some of that 3mil.
It seems to me that Ventura is upset about his "damaged reputation", not how much money they guy made.
 
I agree with Ventura. This guy made up a story about knocking him out that didn't even happen. He benefited off of a lie in his book. That's bs.
The Ventura "story" was two pages. Good luck to mr Ventura proving it was a lie, and even more so that Ventura suffered from it.
Just search YouTube for "Chris Kyle Ventura". He went on multiple TV & radio shows talking about punching Jesse Ventura. If the 2 pages were important enough to talk about every time he was on TV, then it could have certainly helped make some of that 3mil.
It seems to me that Ventura is upset about his "damaged reputation", not how much money they guy made.
But if he proves that Kyle focused on the incident to promote his book, it could be further evidence that it was all BS, that these mere two pages were bull he put in there because he knew it'd attract attention and sell copies. i.e. it's motive.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If it's not really about money and the guy was killed, I would think his reputation would get a bigger lift by dropping this suit instead of pushing forward against the widow.

 
I agree with Ventura. This guy made up a story about knocking him out that didn't even happen. He benefited off of a lie in his book. That's bs.
The Ventura "story" was two pages. Good luck to mr Ventura proving it was a lie, and even more so that Ventura suffered from it.
Just search YouTube for "Chris Kyle Ventura". He went on multiple TV & radio shows talking about punching Jesse Ventura. If the 2 pages were important enough to talk about every time he was on TV, then it could have certainly helped make some of that 3mil.
It seems to me that Ventura is upset about his "damaged reputation", not how much money they guy made.
But if he proves that Kyle focused on the incident to promote his book, it could be further evidence that it was all BS, that these mere two pages were bull he put in there because he knew it'd attract attention and sell copies. i.e. it's motive.
If something makes a story sells more copies, that does zero to prove whether or not it happened.
 
If it's not really about money and the guy was killed, I would think his reputation would get a bigger lift by dropping this suit instead of pushing forward against the widow.
If you watch that Pierce Morgan clip Ventura explains he isn't really suing her, but the insurance companies for the publisher. It sounds like he is picking on some poor widow, but that's not the case here.

 
If it's not really about money and the guy was killed, I would think his reputation would get a bigger lift by dropping this suit instead of pushing forward against the widow.
If you watch that Pierce Morgan clip Ventura explains he isn't really suing her, but the insurance companies for the publisher. It sounds like he is picking on some poor widow, but that's not the case here.
That may be true, but it doesn't change the fact of how it is related by the media (just look at the OP story). If it is all about his reputation, since it is being portrayed as him suing the widow, he'd still get the bump in reputation by dropping it. He could come out with a statement to the effect of "while I stand by my account of the events of the night, it is not worth it to me to prove my point by putting a fellow former Nacy SEAL's widow through a trial." Reputation bump - check. Attention - check.

 
I do think the article has some lousy legal analysis. It's true that Ventura, as a public figure, must prove actual malice but that seems easy to prove if (and it's a big if) he can prove the falsehood of the statement. Deliberately making up a story about a public figure to sell books sounds like actual malice to me.

I also don't think it would be hard to show some damages.

 
The widow could also come out and admit her husband fabricated a story to sell books about how many untrained, poorly organized, Arabs in flip flops he was able to snipe with high powered rifles and night vision.

 
The widow could also come out and admit her husband fabricated a story to sell books about how many untrained, poorly organized, Arabs in flip flops he was able to snipe with high powered rifles and night vision.
Not only do you seem to be calling the guy a liar (I assume with limited knowledge of the facts) but then you rip on him for being a soldier? Nice work my friend.
 
The widow could also come out and admit her husband fabricated a story to sell books about how many untrained, poorly organized, Arabs in flip flops he was able to snipe with high powered rifles and night vision.
Not only do you seem to be calling the guy a liar (I assume with limited knowledge of the facts) but then you rip on him for being a soldier? Nice work my friend.
I'm not impressed by people who profit from death. Especially, when the odds are tremendously in your favor. If he would of had 150 confirmed kills with his bare hands, then he would be a bad ash. Shooting untrained Iraqi from a mile away isn't really that heroic. Definitely not worth writing a book to brag about. Who is impressed by this?

 
The widow could also come out and admit her husband fabricated a story to sell books about how many untrained, poorly organized, Arabs in flip flops he was able to snipe with high powered rifles and night vision.
Not only do you seem to be calling the guy a liar (I assume with limited knowledge of the facts) but then you rip on him for being a soldier? Nice work my friend.
But you have all the facts obviously if you're calling Ventura a jackass for this.

 
The widow could also come out and admit her husband fabricated a story to sell books about how many untrained, poorly organized, Arabs in flip flops he was able to snipe with high powered rifles and night vision.
Not only do you seem to be calling the guy a liar (I assume with limited knowledge of the facts) but then you rip on him for being a soldier? Nice work my friend.
But you have all the facts obviously if you're calling Ventura a jackass for this.
I'm calling Ventura a jackass because that's what he is. This case is just a glimpse.
 
The widow could also come out and admit her husband fabricated a story to sell books about how many untrained, poorly organized, Arabs in flip flops he was able to snipe with high powered rifles and night vision.
Not only do you seem to be calling the guy a liar (I assume with limited knowledge of the facts) but then you rip on him for being a soldier? Nice work my friend.
I'm not impressed by people who profit from death. Especially, when the odds are tremendously in your favor. If he would of had 150 confirmed kills with his bare hands, then he would be a bad ash. Shooting untrained Iraqi from a mile away isn't really that heroic. Definitely not worth writing a book to brag about. Who is impressed by this?
Stopping terrorists is heroic in my book, regardless of what you use to do it.
 
The scary thing is how many people bought this guys book and seemed to idolize him.

http://crooksandliars.com/blue-texan/fallen-seal-sniper-chris-kyle-believed-

There's a fascinating new piece in the New Yorker about Chris Kyle, the decorated Navy SEAL sniper who was tragically killed by a fellow veteran on a Texas shooting range. Kyle, if you recall, was a best-selling author, was on a reality show with Todd Palin (and did a stint as Sarah Palin's bodyguard) and after his death, was mourned as a hero.

That's why revelations that Chris Kyle seemed to be a bigot are quite jarring.

Kyle seemed to consider himself a cross between a lawman and an executioner. His platoon had spray-painted the image of the Punisher—a Marvel Comics character who wages “a one-man war upon crime”—on their flak jackets and helmets. Kyle made a point of ignoring the military dress code, cutting the sleeves off shirts and wearing baseball caps instead of a helmet. (“Ninety per cent of being cool is looking cool,” he wrote.) Like many soldiers, Kyle was deeply religious and saw the Iraq War through that prism. He tattooed one of his arms with a red crusader’s cross, wanting “everyone to know I was a Christian.” When he learned that insurgents had placed a bounty on his head and had named him al-Shaitan Ramadi—the Devil of Ramadi—he felt “proud.” He “hated the damn savages” he was fighting. In his book, he recounts telling an Army colonel, “I don’t shoot people with Korans. I’d like to, but I don’t.”

Let's pause for a second, and imagine if Chris Kyle were a Muslim named Ali Muhammed, talking about Christians.

Like many soldiers, Muhammed was deeply religious and saw the Iraq War through that prism. He wore an Islamic star and crescent, wanting “everyone to know I was a Muslim.” ... He “hated the damn savages” he was fighting. In his book, he recounts telling a friend, “I don’t shoot people with bibles. I’d like to, but I don’t.”

Wouldn't the right call this person a "jihadist" or a "terrorist"? And doesn't this undermine the common refrain we hear from conservatives about the inherent war-like nature of Islam?

But here's the bigger problem.

The archetypal American hero doesn't like to kill--he's forced into it by circumstances beyond his control. Think Gary Cooper in High Noon or Tom Hanks in Saving Private Ryan. Our heroes also don't hate people because of their race or religion, which is inherently un-American.

If Chris Kyle truly believed he was fighting the Crusades, and killed out of "hate" -- he wasn't fighting for the America I grew up in.

Sad.
 
The widow could also come out and admit her husband fabricated a story to sell books about how many untrained, poorly organized, Arabs in flip flops he was able to snipe with high powered rifles and night vision.
Not only do you seem to be calling the guy a liar (I assume with limited knowledge of the facts) but then you rip on him for being a soldier? Nice work my friend.
I'm not impressed by people who profit from death. Especially, when the odds are tremendously in your favor. If he would of had 150 confirmed kills with his bare hands, then he would be a bad ash. Shooting untrained Iraqi from a mile away isn't really that heroic. Definitely not worth writing a book to brag about. Who is impressed by this?
This guy did his job. His job as a sniper was largely to protect our troops on the ground and their allies from threats they could not see or reach. He also serves as the long range eyes of those troops on the ground. Acting as their scout. You may not consider it heroic, but I do. If one sniper shot kills and "untrained, poorly organized, Arab in flip flops," who happens to be planning to set off an IED or shoot a rocket propelled grenade at fellow American soldiers or their allies then he's done his job. Does he have a tactical and technical advantage? Absolutely. I want our troops and our allies to have that advantage in every engagement. This guy served his country valiantly. He volunteered for service and volunteer for the SEALs. He served honorably and did his duty for his fellow members of the armed forces.

I dont know enough about this fight with Ventura. But to me the simple thing would be to omit the story from future editions of the book and for both sides to back away from this suit.

 
Which terrorist did he stop?
Which? With 255 kills, Id have to assume many, not which.

Chris Kyle hesitated the first time he killed a person at long range with a rifle. It was a woman who was about to attack a group of US Marines with a hand grenade.

His most legendary shot came outside Sadr City in 2008 when he spotted an insurgent with a rocket launcher near an Army convoy -- 2,100 yards away

Of course, in your mind, these people are probably not terrorists.

 
The scary thing is how many people bought this guys book and seemed to idolize him.

http://crooksandliars.com/blue-texan/fallen-seal-sniper-chris-kyle-believed-

There's a fascinating new piece in the New Yorker about Chris Kyle, the decorated Navy SEAL sniper who was tragically killed by a fellow veteran on a Texas shooting range. Kyle, if you recall, was a best-selling author, was on a reality show with Todd Palin (and did a stint as Sarah Palin's bodyguard) and after his death, was mourned as a hero.

That's why revelations that Chris Kyle seemed to be a bigot are quite jarring.

Kyle seemed to consider himself a cross between a lawman and an executioner. His platoon had spray-painted the image of the Punisher—a Marvel Comics character who wages “a one-man war upon crime”—on their flak jackets and helmets. Kyle made a point of ignoring the military dress code, cutting the sleeves off shirts and wearing baseball caps instead of a helmet. (“Ninety per cent of being cool is looking cool,” he wrote.) Like many soldiers, Kyle was deeply religious and saw the Iraq War through that prism. He tattooed one of his arms with a red crusader’s cross, wanting “everyone to know I was a Christian.” When he learned that insurgents had placed a bounty on his head and had named him al-Shaitan Ramadi—the Devil of Ramadi—he felt “proud.” He “hated the damn savages” he was fighting. In his book, he recounts telling an Army colonel, “I don’t shoot people with Korans. I’d like to, but I don’t.”

Let's pause for a second, and imagine if Chris Kyle were a Muslim named Ali Muhammed, talking about Christians.

Like many soldiers, Muhammed was deeply religious and saw the Iraq War through that prism. He wore an Islamic star and crescent, wanting “everyone to know I was a Muslim.” ... He “hated the damn savages” he was fighting. In his book, he recounts telling a friend, “I don’t shoot people with bibles. I’d like to, but I don’t.”

Wouldn't the right call this person a "jihadist" or a "terrorist"? And doesn't this undermine the common refrain we hear from conservatives about the inherent war-like nature of Islam?

But here's the bigger problem.

The archetypal American hero doesn't like to kill--he's forced into it by circumstances beyond his control. Think Gary Cooper in High Noon or Tom Hanks in Saving Private Ryan. Our heroes also don't hate people because of their race or religion, which is inherently un-American.

If Chris Kyle truly believed he was fighting the Crusades, and killed out of "hate" -- he wasn't fighting for the America I grew up in.

Sad.
Quez. the special forces typically disregard standard military dress in situations where they are inserted into hostile territory. They are doing it to provide themselves with a certain amount of cover and concealment. Many special forces operators in Afghanistan grew out their beards, facial hair is typically a no no in the military. They also wore clothing that would better allow them to move inconspicuously through the countryside. Many of them also learned to ride horses rather than to drive humvees. The military relaxed their dress codes and grooming standards for the majority of the time that the operations in Iraq and Afghanistan were going on. While regular Army and Marine units may have more closely adhered to the normal regs, special operations forces often adapted their appearance and attire to their environment.

I also dont like that the author of the article you linked from tries to devine Kyle's motives from a few comments without truly knowing the context of those comments. There is also an obvious attempt to paint him as an extremist by mentioning that he briefly worked a security detail for Sarah Palin and that he was on a TV show with Todd Palin.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I do think the article has some lousy legal analysis. It's true that Ventura, as a public figure, must prove actual malice but that seems easy to prove if (and it's a big if) he can prove the falsehood of the statement. Deliberately making up a story about a public figure to sell books sounds like actual malice to me.

I also don't think it would be hard to show some damages.
Hm, I actually had a bit of a different reaction. I was surprised to see the mainstream media lay out a legal concept so cogently.

 
I understand he was following orders, and the people he shot were considered enemies, but I don't agree with him writing a book about it and being celebrated as some kind of great war hero. In my opinion this would be like a drone pilot coming out and saying he was a war hero because he piloted the drone that killed more people than any other drone pilot.

 
I do think the article has some lousy legal analysis. It's true that Ventura, as a public figure, must prove actual malice but that seems easy to prove if (and it's a big if) he can prove the falsehood of the statement. Deliberately making up a story about a public figure to sell books sounds like actual malice to me.

I also don't think it would be hard to show some damages.
Hm, I actually had a bit of a different reaction. I was surprised to see the mainstream media lay out a legal concept so cogently.
I think the professor quoted gave a decent summary of the generic law of defamation concerning public figures. But I don't think he really applied that to the facts of the case. It's hard to think of a case where someone deliberately fabricates a first-person encounter that wouldn't rise to actual malice. Of course he'd know of the falsehood. He was there.

 
I understand he was following orders, and the people he shot were considered enemies, but I don't agree with him writing a book about it and being celebrated as some kind of great war hero. In my opinion this would be like a drone pilot coming out and saying he was a war hero because he piloted the drone that killed more people than any other drone pilot.
So you are implying that he is in no danger as if he was a drone pilot? Ok. :lol:

 
He was in more danger than a drone pilot but not much more than a Humvee driver. I was just equating the drone pilot because they probably have high kill counts as well. That seems to be the big thing that separates him from the thousands of other snipers that haven't profited off of doing their duty.

 
There was an account from a SEAL who was there awhile ago. Can't remember where i read it. Said Ventura was talking bad about the war but not the servicemen in particular. Kyle came up to him and pushed him and things were quickly broken up. Sounded to me like what probably happened.

 
He was in more danger than a drone pilot but not much more than a Humvee driver. I was just equating the drone pilot because they probably have high kill counts as well. That seems to be the big thing that separates him from the thousands of other snipers that haven't profited off of doing their duty.
Snipers have a very unpleasant job to do. If you'd thoroughly read the article from which you copied, you would know that snipers see the damage their bullets do in great detail. More so than most infantrymen or other soliders. They see every shot they take in great detail because they have to. We revere soldiers who cover grenades with their bodies to save their comrades from harm. Snipers do this almost every time they fire their weapons. The shots they take are to keep the enemy from doing harm to their fellow soldiers. I can not imagine what it is like to take a life. I hope never to have to know. But I can imagine that it would be very haunting to have to do it over and over again, regardless of the circumstance.

 
Jesse is too buddy/buddy with Alex Jones for my taste. But he still has the same rights everyone else in the country is entitled to.

If Jesse decided to sue after the guy died, I'd think he was a richard.

But he was suing him before he was killed. I think it's a reach to expect him to drop the lawsuit just because the guy died. It's a reason that some would, but not a reason that everyone should.

 
I agree with Ventura. This guy made up a story about knocking him out that didn't even happen. He benefited off of a lie in his book. That's bs.
The Ventura "story" was two pages. Good luck to mr Ventura proving it was a lie, and even more so that Ventura suffered from it.
Just search YouTube for "Chris Kyle Ventura". He went on multiple TV & radio shows talking about punching Jesse Ventura. If the 2 pages were important enough to talk about every time he was on TV, then it could have certainly helped make some of that 3mil.
It seems to me that Ventura is upset about his "damaged reputation", not how much money they guy made.
But if he proves that Kyle focused on the incident to promote his book, it could be further evidence that it was all BS, that these mere two pages were bull he put in there because he knew it'd attract attention and sell copies. i.e. it's motive.
If something makes a story sells more copies, that does zero to prove whether or not it happened.
Vested interest in making it as dramatic and spectacular as possible (even to the point of exaggerating or making stuff up) to gain interest and drive sales. It adds motive to lie.

 
Ventura was never a SEAL, he was in the UDT. He should probably stop lying about that before he worries about other people's lies.

 
He was in more danger than a drone pilot but not much more than a Humvee driver. I was just equating the drone pilot because they probably have high kill counts as well. That seems to be the big thing that separates him from the thousands of other snipers that haven't profited off of doing their duty.
Have you read the book?

 
That explains it....moron :lmao: I fully confess I am a bit bitter towards the guy. I watched his conspiracy theory show once and realized that was an hour of my life I will never be able to recoop. Burn me once.....

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top